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65 BNSF Engines nose to tail - on the way to refit or retirement?

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 12:02 AM
I don't think Calfornia has any rule about 645 blocks per se'. Though they may have required that cutting for those specific units. In general, The California Air Resources board signed an agreement with UP and BNSF which set fleet wide emissions standards for the state. This was a voluntary agreement on the part of the Railroads. Each Railroad was free to meet the emissions standard through whatever methodology made the most sense. In the case of UP, they built the SD59MX units and chased all the Dash8s and Dash9s out of the state. Dash 8s and 9s are rare to never in the state supposedly the least environmentally friendly. They also run their most emissions friendly units, the GE Tier IVs on the I5 Corridor. Hinkle to West Colton almost exclusively. They've rebuilt that SD40-2s, GP40-2s with the CFR1033 part and various improvements and generally unrebuilt units that are older than a GP60 do not exist in the state. BNSF on the other hand doesn't dedicate any road power to the state, so Dash9s, ACes, AC4400s etc all roam free, but almost every 645 based unit has been removed from the state. No GP39-3/39Ms. No GP40-2s, no SD40-2s. The GP60Ms run the locals. I've seen a GP38-2 hear or there. Also, I can't speak for metrolink or Caltrain which aren't governed by the agreement, but both have newer power than those old F40s. In fact Metrolink runs F59s which are 710 based. They don't have any F40PH based units to my knowledge. Amtrak California rebuilt many if not all of their F59PHIs with 710 ECO Tier 2 plants as well.
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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 5:06 PM

NorthWest

 

 
Blackcloud 5229
why would California require the engine block cut/ disabled when you simply shut it down and ship it out of state where you can use it on the rest of there system?

 

Because California helped pay for the new replacement locomotives. Similar to the Cash for Clunkers program vehicle disabling. CARB has asked for 645-engined locomotives to not be used in some areas of California, but I am unsure of their actual regulatory powers due to federal railroad preemption. Metrolink operates a 645-powered F40PH...

 
The emissions from a blower 12-645E in an MP15 would be significantly greater per unit horsepower than that from a 16-645E3B in an F40PH.
 
And I know northern and southern California are different countries, but there are rather a lot of F40PHs and derivatives operating around San Francisco and San Jose...
 
Peter
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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 4:52 PM

Blackcloud 5229
why would California require the engine block cut/ disabled when you simply shut it down and ship it out of state where you can use it on the rest of there system?

Because California helped pay for the new replacement locomotives. Similar to the Cash for Clunkers program vehicle disabling. CARB has asked for 645-engined locomotives to not be used in some areas of California, but I am unsure of their actual regulatory powers due to federal railroad preemption. Metrolink operates a 645-powered F40PH...

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Posted by Blackcloud 5229 on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 4:41 PM

NorthWest

I thought they may have simply removed the block, but pictures show that it is still in place on some of the units. One unit had its cab stripped, but the others seem to be intact. The curious thing is that they don't have much graffiti on them, and I thought that the 645s had been removed from California a while ago. It also doesn't make sense that UP didn't sacrafice something less valuable.

Strange.

 

 

why would California require the engine block cut/ disabled when you simply shut it down and ship it out of state where you can use it on the rest of there system? 

It sounds more like politics than anything else like the environmentalists say " ok here's how we kill all the 645 engined locomotive's they replace then they'll have to buy new locomotive's to replace them".

its time for railroads operating in California to fight back against the 

environmentalist that are trying to get rid of perfectly functioning locomotive's that are useable outside of California. Simply label both sides of the cab of any locomotive replaced from California with " no California service with this locomotive ". Having the engine block cut increases the cost to the railroad to replace California 645 locomotive's.

there are millions of cars that you can't register in California anymore because of state emissions that are simply sold outs California.

the environmental groups have to realize they are one state not the entire country.

 

 

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:57 PM

Laid-Up Good Order (LUGO)...Ran out of room at Nowers Yard?

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by K4s_PRR on Tuesday, February 14, 2017 12:54 PM

Living in Yukon, Ok. I have seen such scenes many times.  The engines are in a yard alongside I-235 N.  Agood look can be gotten from the Istate since it is elevated there.

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Posted by CHIPSTRAINS on Monday, February 13, 2017 3:33 PM
714 was my last lead sept 2014
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Posted by NorthWest on Wednesday, February 8, 2017 3:23 PM

Ah, yes, the 600s, 700s and 1000s. A lot of color that is much missed!

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Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, February 8, 2017 2:24 PM

Just got back home, and about 1 hour ago, I saw #729 (A C44-W- second out) on a NB empty crude tank train, at Derby,Ks.  It looks pretty 'scruffy' these days, from what I saw of it.    Here is a better photo from 10yrs.back:  @           http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=601016

 

 


 

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Posted by Brules on Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:48 AM

Here are 2 pics I snapped last week with my phone:

 

 

 

I didnt get to the other end where the SD70MAC's are. Looks like almost all the 700's are here.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Saturday, January 23, 2016 3:19 AM

The only Dash 9's slated for such modifications right now are the original 100 Santa Fe units. Those delivered to BNSF aren't part of the rebuild program currently. And with something like 1,800 C44-9W's and 800 SD70MAC's, I wouldn't count on many of these being rebuilt. 

25 overhauls a year in each class quite possibly are the types of numbers we'd be seeing and it just doesn't work out to rebuild a huge chunk of each fleet before they have a change of heart and go a different direction in a few years.

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Posted by Lyon_Wonder on Friday, January 22, 2016 11:47 PM

IMO, the former BN SD70MACs would make good power for a regional like MRL, though I read somewhere that BNSF's going to rebuild their SD70MACs too.

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Posted by Brules on Thursday, January 21, 2016 4:56 PM

My name is Justin, long time railfan and I live in OKC. I drive by this location daily and have been wondering myself what they are doing.

There are now around 100 engines tied up. The location is the old Nowers yard on the east side of I-235 (Broadway Extention) between NW 23rd and NW 36th st. They have a large mix of engines:

- 700 Series C44-9's

- Cream and Green SD70MAC's

- Possibly some -8's

 

All engines have their exhaust stacks covered and sealed.

I will try to get some pics tomorrow, it is pretty impressive to see. It looks like every last Warbonnet BNSF has is tied up there. There is a large mix of Red/Silvers, Hertiage 1 units and the cream and green SD70MAC's.

From what I have found it looks like all the C44-9's are being rebuilt per wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Dash_9-44CW

"All units are currently being converted to AC44C4Ms and repainted in the BNSF Railway's Heritage 3 paint"

My guess is they tied the units up there to await rebuilds. Not sure what will happen to the SD70MACs.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, October 29, 2015 8:22 AM

Without seeing who placed the bids, I would think that the engineless MP15's would be ideal as a starting point for new gensets.

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Posted by rdamon on Thursday, October 29, 2015 5:42 AM
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Posted by Leo_Ames on Wednesday, October 28, 2015 8:08 PM

For those curious, those crippled UP MP15's went for much more than scrap value. $75-115k were the going prices compared to $130-250k for those without the notation (Down a bit from the last auction where running MP15's were reliably getting a quarter of a million). So it looks like they have a future besides scrap. 

By comparison, the C40-8's went for $14-42k. Many appear destined for a second life, but some of the lowest priced units possibly are facing the cutting torch. 

No sign of the sole SD40-2 that Trains reported was slated for this auction. 

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Posted by traisessive1 on Tuesday, October 20, 2015 3:06 PM

Those SD60's and Dash 8's that are now on CN are absolute junk. No one should have to use those things. On top of that, the SD60's and C40-8's have no business being anywhere that requires use of the heater as the heater is useless and the unit's are essentially non insulated. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by NorthWest on Saturday, October 17, 2015 6:29 PM

I thought they may have simply removed the block, but pictures show that it is still in place on some of the units. One unit had its cab stripped, but the others seem to be intact. The curious thing is that they don't have much graffiti on them, and I thought that the 645s had been removed from California a while ago. It also doesn't make sense that UP didn't sacrafice something less valuable.

Strange.

 

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Saturday, October 17, 2015 5:26 PM

What sort of cannibalization involves cutting into the engine block?

Or are you interpreting cut, as in the 12-645 engine block itself is absent from these locomotives? I could see that for 2 or 3, but not 14 unless they have some significant use outside of locomotives for them.

Unless something changed fairly recently, California for one indeed mandates that older locomotives be crippled by their engine blocks being rendered inoperable when state grant money is invested into their replacement with more emission friendly motive power. It took a fair bit of wrangling by the M&ET for instance to save their replaced 70 tonners from this requirement on historic grounds, although I imagine their pair of retired SW1500's had to be crippled. 

I don't really know, hence the questions. You very well may be correct, I'm just trying to understand. 

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Posted by NorthWest on Saturday, October 17, 2015 3:15 PM

Exactly. I can't think of any other reason other than cannibalization. No emissions programs target these units other than those in California (which also target all other 645-powered units), and all UP needed to do was move them elsewhere. Gensets have replaced them in California services.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Saturday, October 17, 2015 2:47 PM

NorthWest
Yes. I wonder if the MP15s have been partially canabalized for parts and are not complete locomotives anymore? They may be close enough to warrant sale as nearly complete locomotives.

14 of the MP15's have the notation that "engine block has been cut". So complete or not, they've been intentionally crippled for some reason. 

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Posted by caldreamer on Saturday, October 17, 2015 2:46 PM

A number of the MP15AC and MP15DC's have the notation next to the model "Engine block cut".  Which to me means it is in NON operational condition.

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Posted by NorthWest on Saturday, October 17, 2015 12:46 PM

Yes. I wonder if the MP15s have been partially canabalized for parts and are not complete locomotives anymore? They may be close enough to warrant sale as nearly complete locomotives.

I didn't see the results from the auction in May, but list prices for the Dash 8-40Cs were anywhere from $30-80 thousand. MP15s were listed at $100,000 and up. SD40-2s and Green Goats were also offered.

 

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Saturday, October 17, 2015 11:31 AM

Are they the same Dash 8's slated for their auction in 5 days (Mentioned in the recent issue of Trains)?

I suspect they will be moving them one way or another, unless there's an overly high reserve price. 

http://www.blackmonauctions.com/auctions/205/

This gives me an opportunity to ask a question I was meaning to anyways, what's up with the notation on many of the MP15's there? 

Were these EPA victims, crippled in order to get government credit for something new that's supposedly more environmently friendly? If so, what a shame. Hard to imagine any of these coming out intact.

Until now, with extremely few exceptions, we've only seen scrappings of 645 engined switchers due to wreck or fire damage. There has always been a happy and willing customer for any cast-offs in the past, but I suspect these will be scrapped or best case, be frame/running gear donors.

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Posted by NorthWest on Friday, October 16, 2015 5:54 PM

UP has had a few Dash 8-40Cs on  the market for a while, but no one seems to be biting. As they have recently done the wet radiator modifications on some of their units they seem to want to hold on to them, so those for sale are probably the worst of the fleet.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Friday, October 16, 2015 10:23 AM

Andrew Falconer

The General Electric DASH 8s could be sold to the CN or a regional railroad.

Don't forget leasing firms. I would suspect that if a large group of modern six axle GE power becomes available, we can expect the usual suspects in that field to acquire some if they're serviceable. 

You can't discount Norfolk Southern as well, now that they have a rebuild program in its infancy for the C40-8 fleet. They've been picking up used late model EMD's for rebuilding when the price was right, so presumably, we can possibly expect some GE purchases as well if they continue the Dash 8.5 rebuild program. 

CSX has even delved into this before when it picked up the B40-8's off NS, but they haven't shown any inclination towards acquiring used GE's since then nor am I aware of any major rebuild programs being developed for their substantial but aging C40-8 fleet. 

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Posted by TTXfan on Friday, October 16, 2015 9:38 AM

sorry switchback i didnt mean to  send that post i put it mine in tab line and sent it ===what i was telling you about "hooked" is that after watching trains for many years but not a railfan. as i grew older working on railcar parts;then railcars,went to work in chicago on intermodol ramps  as a TTX carman [repairman] I got "hooked"; then had the chance to work on a railroad for 20 years. Retired now and what do I do? Watching trains closer now and enjoy. So getting "hooked" is and can be a lifetime hobby or more.Wecome to it all and enjoy

 

 

 

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, October 16, 2015 6:56 AM

TTXfan

a few years ago i seen 50 Oakway motors in two lines in creston ia. not stored but waiting then sold to NS or CN.one day looked for them and they were gone.

 
Most of the Oakway SD60's wound up on CN, they are in the 5400 series.  Six of them were sold to NYSW.
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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Thursday, October 15, 2015 7:07 PM

The General Electric DASH 8s could be sold to the CN or a regional railroad.

Andrew

Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer

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