Bryan Jones GDRMCo Uh, pretty sure the FMG SD90-Hs are still in operation. The latest issues of Western Rails have photos of these units running. Only 4 of the FMG units were delivered as 265H powered units, 901-904. #902 and 904 were repowered with 16-710's within a year of delivery. #901 and 903 have recently recieved 16-710's. FMG #905-909 recieved the 16-710's when rebuilt here in the US and never operated in Australia as 265H powered units. All are classed as SD9043MAC. FMG has also just purchased 8 additional units from EMD/Progress Rail. The units shipped out of Progress Rail in Mayfield,KY last week. All 8 retain the 6000hp 265H prime mover. These will recieve 16-710's rated at 4300hp at some point once they arrive in Australia, completing to SD9043MAC specs. With this order from FMG there will be no more than 4 or 5 of these former UP SD90MAC-H's left at Progress Rail. Bryan Jones
GDRMCo Uh, pretty sure the FMG SD90-Hs are still in operation. The latest issues of Western Rails have photos of these units running.
Only 4 of the FMG units were delivered as 265H powered units, 901-904. #902 and 904 were repowered with 16-710's within a year of delivery. #901 and 903 have recently recieved 16-710's. FMG #905-909 recieved the 16-710's when rebuilt here in the US and never operated in Australia as 265H powered units. All are classed as SD9043MAC.
FMG has also just purchased 8 additional units from EMD/Progress Rail. The units shipped out of Progress Rail in Mayfield,KY last week. All 8 retain the 6000hp 265H prime mover. These will recieve 16-710's rated at 4300hp at some point once they arrive in Australia, completing to SD9043MAC specs.
With this order from FMG there will be no more than 4 or 5 of these former UP SD90MAC-H's left at Progress Rail.
Bryan Jones
Getting information on FMG is relatively difficult due to the isolated location.
I did get some good information when the first four units arrived. Apparently 901 had been stripped for conversion to 16-710G3 at Juniata when the decision was taken to deliver the first four units with 265H engines. Possibly because of this, 901 was in very good condition and ran well. With the three others, 903 started up and ran, but 902 and 904 did not and may not have run in Australia with the 265H.
FMG is trying to expand production rapidly, partly to cover the debt funding in a time of declining iron ore prices. The greater the throughput, the higher the return on the investment.
There are relatively basic maintenance facilities available to FMG in Port Hedland and effectively no third party facilities. If it was intended to re-engine the SD90MAC-H units in the near future they would have been converted prior to shipping. I expect that FMG are planning to run the eight additional units with the 265H for a few years to meet the need for locomotives until things settle down and they can be converted like the others.
The FMG operation is isolated and has no connections to any other system and every train passes the locomotive maintenance facility in each direction. They were able to run 901 and 903 for some years and so may feel confident that they could run eight more units for as long as required. It would be easy to put the SD90MAC-H units on a regime of more frequent inspections if required.
M636C
So, if I'm following this correctly, the only 6000 horsepower units currently in the US are a few of each from EMD and GE in storage with their respective builders?
In regards to the CSX AC6000's (now CW46AC), how much of their lives have they spent in service as 6000 horsepower units? To my understanding, they were downrated once before (when using the HDL prime movers), a caption on a picture for one said they had all been stored at some point (I had not been aware of that), and now already are or all will be downrated again. How many years have they been both operational and 6000hp locomtives (with either prime mover)?
Daniel
FYI, the North American 6000 hp loco is a dead issue.
Apparently, successor to BHP Mining has retired their AC6000's and sold them for scrap.
Too bad, I figured they'd at least be exported back to North America.
Leo_Ames Too bad, I figured they'd at least be exported back to North America.
Highly unlikely due to the cost of shipping locomotives halfway around the world.
CSSHEGEWISCH Leo_Ames Too bad, I figured they'd at least be exported back to North America. Highly unlikely due to the cost of shipping locomotives halfway around the world.
Not so out of the question as in the past 3 used Australian built C36-7s and 5 Australian built SD50s were purchased by NRE and brought to the US.
Buslist CSSHEGEWISCH Leo_Ames Too bad, I figured they'd at least be exported back to North America. Highly unlikely due to the cost of shipping locomotives halfway around the world. Not so out of the question as in the past 3 used Australian built C36-7s and 5 Australian built SD50s were purchased by NRE and brought to the US.
And if THAT doesn't convince you there isn't much 'call' for unmodified 6000hp locomotives in the United States today...
NRE wanted representatives of those two famous 'hangar queen' classes -- but not the more modern 6000s even at scrap value ...
(Could it be that getting the locomotives from where Billiton had them to 'tidewater' and getting them aboard ship, or handling export paperwork, made enough of a cost difference?)
ML
GDRMCoThe locomotives are currently stored in Port Hedland iirc, I think the name should give a clue as to how hard it'd be to get them onto a boat...
Not to mention that the climate there approximates that on sunside of the planet Mercury this time of year...
VERY glad they aren't being scrapped.
Wizlish And if THAT doesn't convince you there isn't much 'call' for unmodified 6000hp locomotives in the United States today... NRE wanted representatives of those two famous 'hangar queen' classes -- but not the more modern 6000s even at scrap value ... (Could it be that getting the locomotives from where Billiton had them to 'tidewater' and getting them aboard ship, or handling export paperwork, made enough of a cost difference?)
To be fair, the C36-7s and SD50s were purchased in 1998, when the AC6000s were new and well before they were for sale.
GDRMCoI think it's been missed by some here but it's reported in the local community that the 7 remaining AC60s and the initial 13 non-isolated cab ACes have indeed been sold to an overseas party, every indication pointing to the US. BHPB stipulated in the sales contracts that these units could not be sold locally and used for haulage so they were either to be scrapped here or sold O/S, the latter has appeared to have happened. The locomotives are currently stored in Port Hedland iirc, I think the name should give a clue as to how hard it'd be to get them onto a boat...
Yeah, PORT Hedland. Seems to me that many cargo vessels arrive full and depart AUS empty.
I suspect that the ACe's can 'easily' be 'freshened up' for resale at reasonable cost...with a number of possible buyers in the NA marketplace.
Given that GE sued the mfr. of the HDL engine, I would wonder if the circumstances would be similiar.
CPM500
CPM500 GDRMCo I think it's been missed by some here but it's reported in the local community that the 7 remaining AC60s and the initial 13 non-isolated cab ACes have indeed been sold to an overseas party, every indication pointing to the US. BHPB stipulated in the sales contracts that these units could not be sold locally and used for haulage so they were either to be scrapped here or sold O/S, the latter has appeared to have happened. The locomotives are currently stored in Port Hedland iirc, I think the name should give a clue as to how hard it'd be to get them onto a boat... Yeah, PORT Hedland. Seems to me that many cargo vessels arrive full and depart AUS empty. I suspect that the ACe's can 'easily' be 'freshened up' for resale at reasonable cost...with a number of possible buyers in the NA marketplace. Given that GE sued the mfr. of the HDL engine, I would wonder if the circumstances would be similiar. CPM500
GDRMCo I think it's been missed by some here but it's reported in the local community that the 7 remaining AC60s and the initial 13 non-isolated cab ACes have indeed been sold to an overseas party, every indication pointing to the US. BHPB stipulated in the sales contracts that these units could not be sold locally and used for haulage so they were either to be scrapped here or sold O/S, the latter has appeared to have happened. The locomotives are currently stored in Port Hedland iirc, I think the name should give a clue as to how hard it'd be to get them onto a boat...
The development of the HDL engine family was a joint venture between GE and Deutz. There were a lot of problems in the development of the new engine with a lot of money spent by both companies. Eventually Deutz said enough and quit funding the research. GE sued and won the rights to all the basic research and to all versions of the HDL design, including some variants that were never built. The HDL engine proved to be less than a steller design, but the basic research gave GE a head start on the design that became GE's EVO diesel engine.
CPM500 Yeah, PORT Hedland. Seems to me that many cargo vessels arrive full and depart AUS empty. I suspect that the ACe's can 'easily' be 'freshened up' for resale at reasonable cost...with a number of possible buyers in the NA marketplace. Given that GE sued the mfr. of the HDL engine, I would wonder if the circumstances would be similiar. CPM500
Port Hedland is pretty isolated and very few ships arrive there loaded and depart empty.
Port Hedland is the largest iron ore export port in the world. Ships wait outside empty in order to load there. That's with two iron ore exporters. A third is starting up. They also ship relatively small quantities of Salt and Manganese.
Specialised locomotive carrying vessels would leave empty, and you could arrange to use the ship that will arrive soon with eight SD90 MAC-H units to take away the 12 SD70ACe units and 7 AC 6000 CWs to the USA.
Of course someone might ask why eight 6000 HP units are being shipped in to Port Hedland while seven are being shipped out. That's because the owner of the seven won't sell them to the company buying the eight because they are competitors.
Given that all eight BHP Billiton AC 6000s had 16 cylinder GEVO engines with air to water intercoolers: I know because I saw and heard them when newly fitted: a quite different sound and shiny new exhaust stacks which I photographed - why is any history of the HDL relevant?
Posted on the Australian website Railpage.com.au by "Toad" Montgomery, a local with good information sources:
""Scrapping of the SD40 and AC6000 units has started at metal recycling yard of Sell & Parker here at Wedgefield.
So far 6071 and 3087, 3093, 3096 and 3097 have come off second best against the hydraulic tin snips."
Wedgefield is an industrial area close to the BHP Billiton Boodarie locomotive depot (and not far from FMG's car dumpers.)
So we don't have to worry about shipping the AC6000s. There might still be a ship required for the SD70 ACe units.
beaulieu Thanks, I am already aware of all the circumstances re: HDL. CPM500 GDRMCo I think it's been missed by some here but it's reported in the local community that the 7 remaining AC60s and the initial 13 non-isolated cab ACes have indeed been sold to an overseas party, every indication pointing to the US. BHPB stipulated in the sales contracts that these units could not be sold locally and used for haulage so they were either to be scrapped here or sold O/S, the latter has appeared to have happened. The locomotives are currently stored in Port Hedland iirc, I think the name should give a clue as to how hard it'd be to get them onto a boat... Yeah, PORT Hedland. Seems to me that many cargo vessels arrive full and depart AUS empty. I suspect that the ACe's can 'easily' be 'freshened up' for resale at reasonable cost...with a number of possible buyers in the NA marketplace. Given that GE sued the mfr. of the HDL engine, I would wonder if the circumstances would be similiar. CPM500 The development of the HDL engine family was a joint venture between GE and Deutz. There were a lot of problems in the development of the new engine with a lot of money spent by both companies. Eventually Deutz said enough and quit funding the research. GE sued and won the rights to all the basic research and to all versions of the HDL design, including some variants that were never built. The HDL engine proved to be less than a steller design, but the basic research gave GE a head start on the design that became GE's EVO diesel engine.
Thanks, I am already aware of all the circumstances re: HDL.
Some photos of the BHP Billiton locomotives being scrapped, from Toad Montgomery.
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