Yep. Things change. I'm waiting for Tom Hanks to throw out the first pitch at the very first home opener for the brand new (?) Cleveland Guardians at 7:10.
Same me, different spelling!
In the various books I have about ocean liners they mostly refer to it as the North River but then most of the companies that operated the ships were European.
Further off topic- as a native New Yorker (Long Island, anyway) I never once ate a pushcart hot dog, neither Sabrett's or Hebrew National. I did once eat nothing but pushcart pretzels when in the City for the day. I didn't feel so good when I got home.
My mother's a New York City girl, if I remember correctly her old neighborhood was 107th Street and Central Park West. She never called the Hudson River the North River and neither did anyone else I know.
Interestingly though, on 18th Century maps of New York City and it's environs it IS shown as the North River. As an aside the Hackensack River is sometimes shown as the "First River" and the Passaic as the "Second River."
OM:
Of course my mother was growing up in Manhattan (west 40s?) long, long ago. Names for places can change because it just happens. Example around here a town you visited is called West Chicago, but it was once named Turner Junction. Ditto Glen Ellyn was Stacey s Tavern. Nothing to do with "PC" not that there is anything wrong with that. During a tragic period of history, almost every town in Germany had an Adolf Hitler Platz. Thankfully they all reverted to there earlier names.
It IS the North River. Amusingly enough, I did not know the correct meaning until someone here corrected me... I thought it was North in the sense 'north to Albany and the Erie Canal connection' -- it is north because the Delaware is the South River.
But the whole time I was growing up, first at 114th and Amsterdam, then in Tenafly and Englewood, NJ, very few people called it anything but the Hudson. You can have fun with those apparently simple questions like 'what is the diameter of an 8-inch shell' and 'who is buried in Grant's Tomb' with this: Manhattan is an island running roughly north-south. The river along the east side of the island is the East River. What's the river along the west side of the island?
The PRR tunnels were famously the 'North River Tunnels'... until, apparently, Conrail and Amtrak complicated things by distinguishing the two east-west bores under the river as the 'north' and 'south' river tunnels, at which point it would be enormously convenient to refer to them as the north and south Hudson River tunnels... when the ridiculous Gateway kludge is built adjacent to them, the same convention might apply.
There is a sort of amusing parallel. The George Washington Bridge over the Hudson/North was double-decked in the early 1960s. There are almost no connections that allow emergency responders to get from one deck to the other -- so the Port Authority needs a way to distinguish the upper deck and its approaches from the lower deck's. Therefore on official Port Authority drawings and in their emergency response procedures, the lower deck is officially termed the "Martha Washington Bridge". (It does not help that the bridge on the other side of Manhattan is also the Washington Bridge...)
I suspect there are going to be efforts to have dead white man Henry Hudson's name removed from the river and... well, just renamed North if they can't decide on a more appropriate name. I will be amused to see how they get to renaming the two decks of the GWB; a surprisingly long list of potential contenders can't be brought up on a family-friendly forum.
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It's doing it again.
OvermodOvermod wrote the following post 2 hours ago: As a native New Yorker, it's not the East River, it's the Hudson.
My mother was a native of Manhattan. She and her relatives always called it the North River.
TANGENT ALERT! Going off topic! Best way to eat a hot dog is on Italian Bread with Sesame seeds. Lightly toasted if it's not bakery fresh. Unless of course you can get a fresh steamed bun like from a hot dog cart! We will now resume our regularly scheduled topic.
pennytrains zugmann Backshop With all the chemical plants in NJ, maybe it's that there's NOT something in the water in VA... I'm told its what makes Jersey pizza what it is. Nathan's hot dogs too! I can taste the East River!
zugmann Backshop With all the chemical plants in NJ, maybe it's that there's NOT something in the water in VA... I'm told its what makes Jersey pizza what it is.
Backshop With all the chemical plants in NJ, maybe it's that there's NOT something in the water in VA...
I'm told its what makes Jersey pizza what it is.
Nathan's hot dogs too! I can taste the East River!
The moral, my friend, of that pitiful end is plain for all to hear...
rixflixI can no longer recite "Abdul Abulbul Ameer" from memory, so I won't write it here. Are you grateful?
Not really. I KNOW that stupid song and it's been running through my head all day since your post! Thanks a lot!
Shhhhhh, that's the secret ingredient!
Backshop Flintlock76 When we moved to Virginia 34 years ago I was struck by how many tall women (5'10" or more) there are here compared to where we lived in New Jersey. Something in the water maybe? With all the chemical plants in NJ, maybe it's that there's NOT something in the water in VA...
Flintlock76 When we moved to Virginia 34 years ago I was struck by how many tall women (5'10" or more) there are here compared to where we lived in New Jersey. Something in the water maybe?
When we moved to Virginia 34 years ago I was struck by how many tall women (5'10" or more) there are here compared to where we lived in New Jersey.
Something in the water maybe?
With all the chemical plants in NJ, maybe it's that there's NOT something in the water in VA...
Ever hear NJ's unofficial state motto?
"New Jersey, where there's a rainbow in every puddle!"
I can almost hear Bert Parks saying something like: "And now our very own corn-fed cutie, ladies and gentlemen...Miss Iowa."
To go even further off-topic:
Rootle-tee-toot, rootle-tee-toot,
we are the girls of The Institute.
We don't smoke and we don't chew
and we don't go with boys that do.
I can no longer recite "Abdul Abulbul Ameer" from memory, so I won't write it here. Are you grateful?
Rick
rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.
BackshopWith all the chemical plants in NJ, maybe it's that there's NOT something in the water in VA...
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
I suspect it may be genetic differences between the NJ population and the VA population. Becky also has a point with the meat and dairy.
My mom did her first year of college in Springfield, OH and she was one of of the taller students, her next three years were at a college in Northfield, MN and she felt short...
The Maine two foot passenger cars had to be sized to acommodate the tall residents...
More likely something in the meat and dairy!
Erik_Mag pennytrains I'm 6 feet tall by the way. FWIW, my wife is 6' tall as well (we met in the local tall club) and my daughter is also about 6'.
pennytrains I'm 6 feet tall by the way.
I'm 6 feet tall by the way.
FWIW, my wife is 6' tall as well (we met in the local tall club) and my daughter is also about 6'.
Thanks for the shots Becky, those T1's are big 'uns all right. Looks like the drone shot was a bit deceiving.
Six feet tall? That's cool, if our paths ever cross we can have a good eye-to-eye conversation!
kgb, thanks for that link. Those I10's had some fat boilers on them, no wonder they were candidates for the conversion to Northerns.
Flintlock76 You know, looking at a drone shot in one of the videos I get the impression 2102's a little on the small side for a Northern, but then I'm used to N&W 611. But as you said, T-1's got the job done!
You know, looking at a drone shot in one of the videos I get the impression 2102's a little on the small side for a Northern, but then I'm used to N&W 611. But as you said, T-1's got the job done!
Oh. Trust me, they're HUGE!
My eye level on 2100's drivers.
https://link.shutterfly.com/G5YPpEQb6ob
My eye level on 611's at Bellevue.
https://link.shutterfly.com/xv5Xg03b6ob
Flintlock76 You know, looking at a drone shot in one of the videos I get the impression 2102's a little on the small side for a Northern, but then I'm used to N&W 611. But as you said, T-1's got the job done! Speaking of the Rambles, here's a short chase film from 1962. That engine's MOVING! It's not 2102 though, but no matter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pehUWiKFnLk
Speaking of the Rambles, here's a short chase film from 1962. That engine's MOVING! It's not 2102 though, but no matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pehUWiKFnLk
I counted 174 revolutions of the 70-inch drivers in one minute on the first part of the film.
A 70-inch diameter driver multiplied by 22/7 for the circumfrence travels 220 inches in one revolution.
Multiply 220 inches per revolution times 174 revolutions per minute is 38,280 inches in one minute.
One mile of 5,280 feet times 12 inches per foot is 63,360 inches.
38,280 inches in a minute divided by 63,360 inches per mile is .604 miles in one minute.
Multiply .604 miles in one minute times 60 minutes in an hour and you get 36 miles per hour.
One corollary, though - I don't know the speed of that old film and whether or not it would play back in "one-to-one real-time playback". Sometimes those old films don't play back in real time which can result in some of the choppiness.
So it very well could be if that film was playing back at, say, .8 speed, then the train would have been traveling at 45 mph.
Fun stuff - bottom line - it was moving along with the varnish!
This web site has a photo of Reading I-10sa 2-8-0 2017, built in 1923.
I-10sa 2-8-0 2044 was converted to Reading 2102, which is in the following photo.
The Reading Shops used the 2-8-0 boiler and firebox, added a course to the front of the boiler, new one-piece integrated cast steel engine bed with Boxpok drivers, and "abracadabra" - out came T1 2102. Quite the transformation!
https://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr817.htm
What Reading Shops did with the I-10sa 2-8-0s and other locomotives puts them right up there with Frisco, Mopac and Illinois Central in terms of what they did to convert locomotives to 8-coupled Northerns or Mountains.
'76, sounds like you're just a ramblin' kind of guy, as Steve Martin would say!
Here is an interesting web page from steamlocomotive.com with comparative data for several 4-8-4 types, including the J and the T1.
Same driver diameter at 70 inches, same cylinder size of 27 x 32, and the wide firebox, but the J is, to use a football metaphor, just a "Gronk-sized" bruiser - big and fast (as we all know), so it has a several key statistics upsized from the T1.
But the T1 is still big. It did the job it was built for, and did the job well, and it is absolutely awesome to have it back! Thank you, Andy Muller!
https://steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=4-8-4
kgbw49'76, that is a great observation!
Thanks! When I saw 2102 all slicked up the J1 was the first thing that popped into my mind, I've seen that J1 picture you linked, in fact it's in one of my N&W books. I thought the resemblence was remarkable.
By the way, I was re-reading my copy of "Eastern Steam Pictorial" by Bert Pennypacker this afternoon and thought I saw something familiar on the full-color dust jacket. I took a closer look and sure enough, it's 2102 on one of the Reading "Iron Horse Rambles" from around 1960 or so. Some coincidence, huh?
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