I rode on an excursion train pulled by the UP 844 from Denver to Sterling, Colorado many years ago. I also had an opportunity to ride on a train pulled by the UP 3985.
Does anyone know the net cost of the UP Steam Program, i.e. revenues minus expenses including interest and depreciation? I suspect the revenues don't cover all the costs.
Jim Wrinn was quoted in USA Today as estimating the cost to restore the 4014 at roughly $4 million.
If I remember correctly, Stephen Lee was the engineer on the 844 trip. Is he still around?
There is an excellent article in the Spring 2019 Classic Trains about Big Boys working south of Ogden to Milford, UT on the Los Angeles & Salt Lake for 9 months in 1943.
Two items of note:
They apparently could roll 5,600-ton trains at speeds of 60–65 mph, and they gave such a good accounting of themselves that UP worked up preliminary plans for oil-fired Big Boy Class 4884-3 with a 33,000 gallon water tender on a 4-10-2 wheel arrangment.
However, with the A-bomb truncating the war, the order was never placed.
zugmannWe've all seen a railroad in the east have a decent excursion program with steam, only to quickly and quietly shut it down with the changing of the executive guard. Executives have to answer to shareholders, and with PSR, will those shareholders be happy with money poured into a steam program (even if it is outside of operations)?
UP has always had a different culture, and while that might change I think their market cap is sufficiently great that no group of Children's-Fund-like weasels could acquire enough influence to overcome it with misguided 'shareholder wealth' proxy-fight action.
Also important is that the steam shop is officially overseen by the VP in charge of quality management (which in case you were wondering accounts in large part for the aircraft-like documentation and specification methodology) and this has large support in UP management. Of course that might change if 'the men who manage money' want it to, but it's often less expensive to tolerate this sort of expenditure than to replace all the people who support it.
Something I'm far more concerned about than activist shareholder Scrooging, though, is the thing that nominally killed the NS program in the Nineties: consequences from accidents or incidents in operation, or vastly bloated 'nominal' insurance coverage requirements. While I don't see Union Pacific imposing on itself the same very high policy limits that killed the 765 trip for Steamtown recently -- it would not take too many fatalities to bring about some pressure to reduce or even curtail excursions. (Now, I don't think this would compromise maintenance on the two operating locomotives, or particularly delay the scheduled rebuilding of 3985, but it might well put all three in the same effective status as Cotton Belt 819 when she was 'all dressed up with no place to go' courtesy of a previous Union Pacific ukase.
OvermodHow hefty a bet would you consider?
We've all seen a railroad in the east have a decent excursion program with steam, only to quickly and quietly shut it down with the changing of the executive guard. Executives have to answer to shareholders, and with PSR, will those shareholders be happy with money poured into a steam program (even if it is outside of operations)?
Esp. if BNSF jumps on the PSR train.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
And if nothing's changed since 2008 the UP steam program is under the auspices and funding of the executive department, not operations.
Backshop steve24944 I would like to see UP run 4014 with a 100 car freight like he was designed to do. Let him earn his keep. 100 car freights of 40ft boxcars and 100 car freights today are two entirely different things.
steve24944 I would like to see UP run 4014 with a 100 car freight like he was designed to do. Let him earn his keep.
I would like to see UP run 4014 with a 100 car freight like he was designed to do. Let him earn his keep.
100 car freights of 40ft boxcars and 100 car freights today are two entirely different things.
And a 100-car-equivalent singlestack consist of articulated equipment, let's say equivalent by length, is ... more or less difficult than the 'legacy' train?
Even with doublestacks I see no reason why 4014 wouldn't do at least as well as 3985 did on similar intermodal equipment a couple of decades ago (has it really been that long???)
zugmann Flintlock76 Work on 3985 should start after the steam team has a well-deserved breather. With the PSR syndrome, I don't know if I'd lay a hefty amount on that bet.
Flintlock76 Work on 3985 should start after the steam team has a well-deserved breather.
kgbw49UP and its big steam power - to quote Tim the Toolman Taylor: "Argh, argh, argh!!!"
to quote Tim the Toolman Taylor: MORE POWER!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
One thought about the 4014-844 doubleheader is that the Big Boy is enormous, and the enormity of 4014 actually highlights the fact that 844 is pretty gosh-darn big in its own right!
UP and its big steam power - to quote Tim the Toolman Taylor: "Argh, argh, argh!!!"
zugmann Anyhing's possible Zug, and nothing's graven in stone. Still, I'd tell folks waiting for 3985's return what I told them when the 4014 restoration began... "Put it on the back-burner of your mind. Forget it exists. It'll be ready when it's ready." Flintlock76 Work on 3985 should start after the steam team has a well-deserved breather. With the PSR syndrome, I don't know if I'd lay a hefty amount on that bet.
Anyhing's possible Zug, and nothing's graven in stone. Still, I'd tell folks waiting for 3985's return what I told them when the 4014 restoration began...
"Put it on the back-burner of your mind. Forget it exists. It'll be ready when it's ready."
With the PSR syndrome, I don't know if I'd lay a hefty amount on that bet.
Flintlock76Work on 3985 should start after the steam team has a well-deserved breather.
OK Point taken. Still, how about a 65 car train.
Steve
steve24944 I would like to see UP run 4014 with a 100 car freight like he was designed to do. Let him earn his keep. Steve
[/quote]
Backshop steve24944 I would like to see UP run 4014 with a 100 car freight like he was designed to do. Let him earn his keep. Steve 100 car freights of 40ft boxcars and 100 car freights today are two entirely different things.
From my hubby's buddy in the steam program. 3985 along with 4014's tender will be started on this Summer after they get back from the trip to CA with the 4014. Yep she is going to California and up and over Cajon Pass according to our friend and might come back via Techaphi pass to Donner. They are still trying to get the logistics worked out on crews and such.
Challenger 3985 isn't running at the moment. It's in need of a good overhaul but the focus of the steam team for the past several years has been getting 4014 up and running, so 3985 has had to wait.
Work on 3985 should start after the steam team has a well-deserved breather.
SPSOT fanIs UP’s challenger running at the moment? If it is is it also in the area? I wouldn’t know, I don’t really keep up on UP steam stuff... If the challenger is running we could have it pair up with the others, and TRIPLE head a train! Reason why you ask? Answer; because we can!
If the challenger is running we could have it pair up with the others, and TRIPLE head a train!
Reason why you ask? Answer; because we can!
3985 is not running at present.
Is UP’s challenger running at the moment? If it is is it also in the area? I wouldn’t know, I don’t really keep up on UP steam stuff...
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
Steam Power ran from what ? 1830s to well into the 1950s And now today they have to have Diesel for what ? Back up ? In the years that UP Steam Program has run, have they ever had a problem with the Steam Power fail ? Norfolk Western 611 runs like a Bat out of Hell, no diesel.
No, at least in this particular instance (Although I believe you'd often be right, such as when Amtrak power tags along on a steam excursion for other mainline operators). They don't have freight power equipped to provide HEP and I think only the E9B is equipped in their heritage fleet of locomotives with a HEP generator (Or at least was when it left VMV after its 1993 rebuilding).
They're bringing a dedicated power car along for HEP. It's an ACF built boiler dormitory car that was rebuilt to provide HEP and water for UP's passenger cars and is named in honor of artist Howard Fogg (A much appropriate name since Union Pacific's 25 Big Boys were a favorite subject of his). You can hear it running in YouTube videos from today's departure. Edit: Two power cars, to be exact. Just noticed the #207 is also in the consist.
Will there be any tunnels? They coast through long tunnels so as to not essentially steam clean the roof of the tunnel, washing decades of diesel exhaust grime on to the train. And when that happens they need a diesel helper ready to go online to pull the train in those instances.
I read a wile back, when paired with 844, that the diesel loco had a duel purpose. One was to give a nuge when needed on hills but the most important reason was to supply electricity to the passenger cars.
Looks like a modern EMD, I believe a SD70ACe, is tagging along with the #844 and #4014.
Looking at popular railfan picture upload sites, it doesn't look like their Centennial has had an outing since July 2014.
kgbw49Once again, BaltACD is on the advertised! It is my understanding from reading various other sources that the qualified steam engineers are also part of the steam crew members who were working on Big Boy, and the race to get him finished in time for May 4 required "all hands on deck". If the 844 had left a week earlier as originally planned, half the steam crew would have been out of town with 844. Doubleheading them instead kept all the crew in town to help in the race to finish Big Boy, and then be together on the road if, heaven forbid, Big Boy would throw a shoe. (This being Kentucky Derby day, I always thought Big Boy would be a great name for a race horse.)
It is my understanding from reading various other sources that the qualified steam engineers are also part of the steam crew members who were working on Big Boy, and the race to get him finished in time for May 4 required "all hands on deck".
If the 844 had left a week earlier as originally planned, half the steam crew would have been out of town with 844.
Doubleheading them instead kept all the crew in town to help in the race to finish Big Boy, and then be together on the road if, heaven forbid, Big Boy would throw a shoe. (This being Kentucky Derby day, I always thought Big Boy would be a great name for a race horse.)
Hope 844 & 4014 don't have to run the Sloppy Track that the horses will in the Kentucky Derby!
Once again, BaltACD is on the advertised!
Both are the current in-use steamers under the UP banner, so why not showcase them? If one goes lame, the other can be a 'steam' stand-in. And, with both locos on location, the awesomeness of the Big Boy can be demonstrated; a direct comparison for the enthusiasts.
SPSOT fanDo we need any reason except that a double headed steam power lashup looks AWESOME!
That was pretty close to my first thought when I read the title: FOR FUN!
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Do we need any reason except that a double headed steam power lashup looks AWESOME!
Perhaps also for liability reasons, if the Big Boy breaks down we still go one steamer running, and also it’s an easy way to transport both locomotives to places they need to be.
That makes sense too.
Flintlock76Not unusual for UP to double head steam locomotives when going to a big "do," they did it quite often years back when 844 and 3985 were putting in appearances at rail festivals and celebrations. And frequently there was a diesel in the consist, sometimes one from the historic collection. It made sense. If both steamers were heading there anyway it made sense to team them up. Made for a good show anyway.
It made sense. If both steamers were heading there anyway it made sense to team them up. Made for a good show anyway.
I suspect it is a pragmatic consideration. There is only one 'steam team' to care for all the steam engines 844 - 3985 - 4014. Spitting the engines up on separate trips between the same O-D pairs would spread the team thin in case there was trouble.
Not unusual for UP to double head steam locomotives when going to a big "do," they did it quite often years back when 844 and 3985 were putting in appearances at rail festivals and celebrations. And frequently there was a diesel in the consist, sometimes one from the historic collection.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.