Canadian Class

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Canadian Class
Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, April 01, 2017 8:16 PM

With the current situation in Canada where big steam is somewhat stymied (hopefully temporarily) it is worthwhile to remember the steam power used in the Dominion. The locomotives used proved capable of handling whatever was asked of them, and the railroads accomplished their mission as arteries of commerce with great aplomb, and always a touch of class. 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, April 01, 2017 9:15 PM

Canadian Class 1 - Canadian Pacific Selkirks, Northerns and Hudsons

Selkirk 2-10-4 T1b-T1c...

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Selkirk 2-10-4 T1a...

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Northern 4-8-4 K1a...

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Hudson 4-6-4 H1a-H1b...

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Hudson 4-6-4 H1c-H1d-H1e...

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, April 01, 2017 9:39 PM

Kgbw49- Thanks for this. Terrific stuff. We sure were lucky to have been around for a time when they were in regular service, whether Royal Hudson's or Erie Berkshires. 

There is a good cross section of the big steamers preserved in Canada but most will never run again. 

I can still see the CNR streamlined Northerns barrelling through town non stop. Incredible sight. 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, April 01, 2017 9:40 PM

It alway struck me that Canadian steam locomotives seemed to be an interesting cross between the British and American design theorys, with the best of both blended seamlessly.

Kgb said it;  Class, pure class.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, April 01, 2017 11:55 PM

Canadian Class 2 - Canadian National Hudsons and 4-6-4Ts

Hudson 4-6-4 K5a

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And another few Canadian National 4-6-4s - the K2 4-6-4T...

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, April 02, 2017 10:10 AM

Thanks, NDG! I will include them in the next round. I had forgotten about them!

What I like about the 3100-3101 is they look like an H1a Hudson but just extended by one driver.

And the 2900-2901 Mountains look like a G2 Pacifc but just extended by one driver, too.

Both classy looking machines that handled the night trains between Montreal and Toronto with great aplomb!

It is tough to find pictures of them, though! But we will see what we can dig up!

Thanks again!

RME
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Posted by RME on Sunday, April 02, 2017 11:53 AM

kgbw49
What I like about the 3000-3001 is they look like an H1a Hudson but just extended by one driver.

Do you mean 'shrunk'? (3000-3001 were high-speed Jubilees)

Or do you mean the K-class 4-8-4s, 3100 and 3101?  (I had thought these were more related to Selkirks than Royal Hudsons... but never checked primary dimensions to see)

My own opinion is that 3101 at IPSCO in Regina is still the most ideal 'candidate' for a locomotive to commemorate the occasion - capable of handling heavy trains on 2% and also any current CP track speed.  Perhaps not as famous, elegant, or well-restored as 2816, of course.

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, April 02, 2017 11:54 AM

The banjo frames on the CN 4-6-4s seem to have lasted a long time compared with other locomotive classes that had them.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, April 02, 2017 1:14 PM

Canadian Class 3 - Canadian Pacific Mountains and Jubilees

Mountain 4-8-2 Class I1a

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Jubilee 4-4-4 Class F1a-F2a

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NDG
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Posted by NDG on Sunday, April 02, 2017 1:20 PM

 

More, and more Info!

CPR certainly looked after things in steam days.

Almost every in-service locomotive shined and tended to on departure, even on freight.

I liked the CP 2900 Mountains' lines and also thought highly of the ' looks' of the low-numbered CP Mikadoes which were rebuilt, adding 100 to their original number.

This one passed the end of our street right to the end.

https://rockontrains.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/cpr-no-5114-montreal-qc-6-23-59-credit-bob-krone.jpg

Steam in Montreal ended last few days of June 1960. There were other Company moves to using steam locomotives for Coach heating at The Glen into 1961.

Two colour photographs have appeared on the Internet of a Royal Hudson AND a 2900 4-4-4 painted in the FREIGHT Black paint scheme.

The 3000 4-4-4s were well regarded and quite stylish. They Apparently bent their Main Rods when backing if they slipped.

The 2900s were a poor solution.


Then there were these.

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_steam/decapod.htm

One of the 2-10-0s was first Factory-Built Oil Fired engine on CPR.

The CPR Shays were quite elegant in their own rugged way.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d4/10/b5/d410b51aa8daeaccbbc84f8ec4466b09.jpg

http://www.gearedsteam.com/shay/images/canadian_pacific_rwy_1903-sn824.jpg

But, way too slow on the flat.

Much info, here.

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_steam/one.htm


I read on the Internet recently, the source of ALL Truth? that the GTW Banjo-Framed  6300 4-8-4s were transferred to CN proper as there were questions about their Banjo Frames at high speeds on Passenger and on CN were speed restricted??? and intended for Freight use.

The CV 700s had the frames, also, but, speed was not an issue there.

As mentioned, if there was a real problem, strange the CN 5700s were not so restricted.

One of the latter was redrivered after a wreck? and differed from the rest.

More Data.

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cnr_steam2/three.htm

Thank You.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, April 02, 2017 1:52 PM

RME, yes, 3100-3101. Thanks for catching that.

And of course the 2900-2901 Mountains were off the roster by the time the 2900 Jubilees came around. I meant to say that the 2900-2901 Mountains looked like an extended G2 Pacific from that time.

Thanks!

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, April 02, 2017 2:27 PM

The last steam I saw in regular service, not excursion service (6218, 6060) through my hometown of Burlington was a CPR Jubillee pulling a string of RDC's over the Christmas season 1959. 

Also see several pictures in "Old Time Trains" with Jubilee's and RDC's together In various other locations In Southern Ontario.

My question is: I assume the RDC's were not under power, locomotive wise, and used as regular passenger equipment. Is this correct? 

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Sunday, April 02, 2017 2:42 PM

Miningman

The last steam I saw in regular service, not excursion service (6218, 6060) through my hometown of Burlington was a CPR Jubillee pulling a string of RDC's over the Christmas season 1959. 

Also see several pictures in "Old Time Trains" with Jubilee's and RDC's together In various other locations In Southern Ontario.

My question is: I assume the RDC's were not under power, locomotive wise, and used as regular passenger equipment. Is this correct? 

 

Yes,

RDCs were used as passenger cars in trains and had steam conduits thru to handle regular Psgr. equipments behind.

I do not know if there were marshalling instructions re placement in trains.

RDCs were poor in snow, ( only inner two axles were powered ) and often a locomotive applied just to get thru.

If one broke down, a locomotive would be used.

 

Thank You.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, April 02, 2017 2:48 PM

Found several more nuggets on CPR Selkirks, Northerns and Hudson, and a few more on Jubiliees, and added them to the prior posts if anyone is interested. Will be looking at CN again in Canadian Class 4 as soon as I get a chance. Just great, great stuff - hard working railroads done with panache, spit and polish.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, April 02, 2017 3:58 PM

What fabulous looking machines!

I had to surpress a giggle at the "Jubilee" types, though.  They look like the Marx toy locomotives on steroids! 

Those Marx toys were pretty attractive too!

PS:  I can see why when he did one of his railbooks the late Don Ball always started off the show with a trip to Canada.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, April 03, 2017 7:49 PM

Canadian Class 4 - Canadian National Mountains

U-1-a, U-1-b, U-1-d, U-1-e, U-1-f

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, April 03, 2017 11:29 PM

Great stuff...sure takes me back. 

The bullet nose Betty's had really nice whistles. Beautiful sound. 

CNR- lots of Mountains in several classes and wide range of appearances; CPR-had 2

CNR- largest fleet of Northerns in the world in many classes; CPR had 2

CPR- large fleet of Hudson's in several classes; CNR had 5

CPR-large fleet of Jubilee's; CNR had none

Competed in the same places throughout the entire land coast to coast yet such differing philosophies in motive power. 

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 12:41 AM

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 12:57 AM

Torontonian's will recognize this location instantly. Approaching the CNE fairgrounds and Toronto Union Station. This road, Lakeshore Road has been replaced by the QEW Hwy. and Lakeshore Road itself rebuilt further to the left of the picture. Basically it looks the same overall, with the steep hills and the railroad paralleling the QEW and Lakeshore Road.

One thing however...never seen it this empty. Both roads are jammed bumper to bumper just about 24/7 now. 

This photo is from a Sunday morning, the "Sunday's Only" train from Buffalo, originating in NYC. Schedule had it arriving 30 minutes later than the "Daily Except Sunday". How times have changed.

Of note- starting in the 70's until today, while folks in their cars inch along painfully and maddeningly each day, VIA Trains and GO commuters whiz right on by at 80 mph...drives 'em nuts. 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 7:55 AM

never knew that Jubalees were used on freight.    great photos

thanks!

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 5:52 PM

Miningman, love the way that G3 is cracking the whip on Sunday morning! What a classic looking train!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 6:58 PM

Don't forget the Grand Trunk!  Big Smile

A waking Lithium Flower just about to bloom

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, April 05, 2017 5:17 PM

I thought the Grand Trunk hauled circus elephants?

Just kidding!  GREAT job on that watercolor Becky!  You should take commissions!

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, April 15, 2017 3:57 PM

Awesome water color! It would be great to see that unit rolling again someday too!

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, April 15, 2017 4:22 PM

Canadian Class 5 - Canadian Pacific Pacifics

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, April 15, 2017 5:45 PM

Maybe some of you know about this, but for those who don't...

David P. Morgan did a book in 1961, published by Kalmbach, called simply "Canadian Steam!", the exclaimation point being his.

It's a photo anthology of Canadian steam locomotives, just like kgb's favored us with.  Great rail photographer names like David Plowden, J.P. Lamb, Don Wood, Phil Hastings, Jim Shaughnessy, A.C. Kalmbach himself, and John A. Rehor among others.

Mine's a second printing from 1964, don't remember just where I found it but I'm sure glad I did.  All black-and-white shots but all good or better than good.

It's one to keep an eye out for, trust me.  Check those train shows and used book dealers!

 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, April 16, 2017 1:21 PM

Added more to the Canadian Pacific Pacifics - they had a lot of them - sleek varnish runners and brawny dual purpose units.

Also added a few more to the Canadian Pacific Jubiiees and Hudsons.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, April 16, 2017 8:59 PM

daveklepper, the caption on this photo said this Jubilee was heading west to Smith's Falls with 60 cars of freight...

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NDG
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Posted by NDG on Sunday, April 16, 2017 10:41 PM

 

 

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FWIW.

 
I am NOT an ' Expert ', I suggest THIS locomotive was hand-fired, and the Fireman probably felt every scoop, car and mile to Smiths Falls re Cut Off. Ditto Engineer re Slippage  ( French Word for Greasy Rail. )
 
Do NOT know if ANY of this class 4-4-4 were OIL-Fired
 
Speaking of Dorval, here is a later view of a Roadswitcher job heading west.  Note back up hose w/ whistle on Caboose Trainline Hose.
 
 
Note two lanterns top right under eaves, one Green the other White ( Clear ). If were lit approaching THRU Passenger Trains had to stop for boarding passengers. If NO Psgrs for THAT train, the lamps were NOT Lit and he could roll right thru.
 
B&M Train @ CP Montreal West, 1947.
 
 
Hooded two-aspect signal above rear end of locomotive cab roof visor Green/White for same reason.
 
LIP at end of cab roof to pull air up and lift coal dust rather than circulate into cab.
 
Same signal, rear view top of shelter roof, right.
 
 
At other stations a Green/White flag on wooden staff used to signal Engineer passengers were to be boarded @ Flag Stops on schedules.
 
The Oscillating headlamp on door of RDC made Engineers dizzy at night, as their eyes followed the beam's rotation. They HATED it.
 

Thank You.

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