Santa Fe PA Locomotives

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Santa Fe PA Locomotives
Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, December 05, 2016 6:37 PM

This separate topic has been established to make it more searchable given the interest:

A-A-B-A on Raton Pass:

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A-B-B-B San Francisco Chief...

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A-B-B-A backing down to their train at Clovis...

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A-B-B-A notching out from Clovis for California...

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A-A-B-? Mail Train 4 at Wichita (look closely-second unit is an A)...

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A-A-A-A Mail Train in Fort Worth...

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A-B-A at Gallup....

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A-A notching out of the Big Windy in winter...

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A-B-A fresh off the showroom floor in Chicago...

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A-A-B-B awaiting departure in Kansas City...

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A-A in San Diego...

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RSD-5-RSD-5-A-B-A at Trinidad...

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A-B-B honorary steam locomotive puttin' the miles behind 'em...

Really movin' - check out the dust being vacuumed off the roadbed...

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 A-B on the Golden Gate, side by side with Hudson 3450 on the Grand Canyon Limited in Bakersfield...

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A-B-B-A either brand new or just out of the wash rack...

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A-B-A broadside...

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A-A-B-A in Fort Worth...

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A-A ready for departure northbound from San Diego...

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Monday, December 05, 2016 6:55 PM

    .

RME
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Posted by RME on Monday, December 05, 2016 7:52 PM

I'll say it here, too:  WOW!

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Posted by AnthonyV on Monday, December 05, 2016 8:50 PM

Gorgeous - the photos and the PAs!

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:34 AM

Get pictures

 

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Posted by SSW9389 on Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:18 PM
The first photo looks like the San Francisco Chief on Tehachapi.
COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!
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Posted by RME on Tuesday, December 06, 2016 10:10 PM

SSW9389
The first photo looks like the San Francisco Chief on Tehachapi.

Between 1962 and 1967.   Who can spot the heavyweights in this consist?  (Well, part of them, anyway...)

8000hp* honorary steam locomotives were not only on ATSF, as it turns out.

*Some SP units had the 2250 nominal HP, but SP apparently didn't run them fast enough to make use of the extra horsepower

 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, December 06, 2016 10:22 PM

Nice! Makes one want to imitate Tim Allen - Arr, arr, arr!

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Posted by nyc#25 on Friday, December 09, 2016 3:53 PM

In 1964 on my first trip to San Francisco I arrived on ATSF #1,

"The San Francisco Chief" I behind PAs, probably put on at

Barstow, and departed on SP #102, the "City of San Francisco"

also powered by PAs!

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Friday, December 09, 2016 5:30 PM

nyc#25

In 1964 on my first trip to San Francisco I arrived on ATSF #1,

"The San Francisco Chief" I behind PAs, probably put on at

Barstow, and departed on SP #102, the "City of San Francisco"

also powered by PAs!

 

awesome trip

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, December 09, 2016 8:13 PM

It's a shame the PA's didn't live up to ALCO's expectations, but wow, did they look good!

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, December 10, 2016 12:50 PM

The PAs always had a nice low profile.  A question ;  Do the PAs have a lower center of gravity ? If so they or a new similar dynamic loco would be ideal for tilting trains such as Talgos ?

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Saturday, December 10, 2016 10:49 PM

blue streak 1

The PAs always had a nice low profile.  A question ;  Do the PAs have a lower center of gravity ? If so they or a new similar dynamic loco would be ideal for tilting trains such as Talgos ?

 

The Canadian LRC train, while not quite as extreme as the Talgo, has/had a lower roof profile than conventional lightweight streamlined trains.  This feature included the locomotives, which were Canadian-licensed ALCos.

Think of it, the RS-series road switchers had a lower long hood than most other such Diesels.  I suppose if you take an RS-3, replace the cab and short hood with a low profile nose, and as they say in Canada, voila, you have an LRC "power car."

The LRC coaches, they tell me, are still in service but the LRC power cars/locomotives/whatever you call them are not -- did I tell you they were ALCos?  They have been replaced by Genesis Diesels, which are noticably taller than the LRC coaches, giving a consist some of the Cascades Talgo "look."

As for tilting trains, I read that the locomotive having a low center of gravity is not the concern.  Rather, if the locomotive has too high a weight per axle, rounding curves at a speed that would take full benefit of the active tilt of trains like the LRC, the resulting forces would spread the rails -- not good.

The LRC power cars were supposed to be light in weight (the "L" in LRC standing for legere as in light), but I guess their weight crept upwards (when they went from 12-cyl 3000 HP to 16-cyl 4000 HP?), so they did not turn out to be the best locomotive for a tilting train.  The Talgos are passive tilt (pendulum suspension) with limited compensation for the "cant deficiency", but their more modest speed overage on curves is about what you can tolerate with a conventional locomotive (i.e., a Genesis as in Cascades service).

The LRC coaches, on the other hand, are said to have their tilt disabled.  C'est la vie, according to another popular Canadian expression.

As to the low profile of the PA, I had been told by Jim Hediger, recently retired as an editor of Model Railroader, that whereas an EMD E unit rode like a Pullman car, the PAs were quite rough riding.  I guess the E-7/8/9 has a smoother riding truck.

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, December 11, 2016 4:26 PM

Looks like Paul's brought up the "dark side" of the PA.

Veteran Erie engineer Jim Kostibos in his Morningside book said he hated the things, calling them "uncomfortable pieces of junk."  He also said one of the most important accessories to a PA was a fire extinguisher, for when the air-cooled supercharger lit up!  Mr. K preferred the E-units, hands-down, although he also said the ALCO RS series were fun to run.

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Posted by JOHN C TARANTO on Monday, December 12, 2016 4:15 PM

"Dark Side" or not, I believe that the Santa Fe PAs were the most beautiful streamlined diesels ever produced!  It's so odd, looking at those photos, how what started out as an A+B+B+A lash up would wind up as an A-A-B-A, or an A-B-B-B, etc. !!

Shovel all the coal in, gotta keep 'em rolling.  John. 

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Posted by aatrainnut on Monday, December 12, 2016 4:17 PM

[quote user="RME"]

 

 
SSW9389
The first photo looks like the San Francisco Chief on Tehachapi.

 

Between 1962 and 1967.   Who can spot the heavyweights in this consist?  (Well, part of them, anyway...)

8000hp* honorary steam locomotives were not only on ATSF, as it turns out.

*Some SP units had the 2250 nominal HP, but SP apparently didn't run them fast enough to make use of the extra horsepower

 

 

Thanks for this pic!  My dad was a RPO clerk and worked this train. He'd ride the 21 westbound Ogden, Utah to Lovelock, Nevada then the 102 City of San Francisco eastbound. Took me and my brother with him a couple of times.

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Posted by CNSF on Monday, December 12, 2016 4:23 PM

One of those photos is labelled as "awaiting departure from Chicago" when in fact I believe it is KC.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, December 12, 2016 5:06 PM

Now I never said PA's weren't cool-lookin', as a matter of fact I think they were gorgeous.  I wish GE would use a PA styling on their Genesis passenger locomotives instead of that sci-fi nightmare skin they've got on 'em, no reason they couldn't.

All I said was the PA's just didn't live up to their promise, which was a shame.

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Posted by pcapell on Monday, December 12, 2016 5:34 PM
Don't we all regret that more PAs could be saved for the enjoyment of today's and future railfan communities!
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Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, December 12, 2016 6:26 PM

CNSF, thank you! You are most certainly correct! I had thought the building in the background was the headhouse of Dearborn Station in Chicago because of the brick color. But upon your suggestion, I blew the photo up to 400% and then saw the Western Auto building in the background that definitely makes it KC. Thanks so much for the assist!

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Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, December 12, 2016 11:11 PM

A-A rolling by Knightsen...

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A-B-B-? exiting tunnel (Raton? Tehachapi?)

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A-B-A in high country...

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A-A on Del Mar Hill passing the Del Mar Hotel...

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A-A somewhere in California in an area that is probably all houses today...

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A under the lights...

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A-A in front of an F-7 at Los Angeles Union Depot...

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Just for fun, a couple of the other Warbonnet classics...

E1A (a little help on this one?)...

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F7 A-B-A-B at Dearborn Station in Chicago...

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A-B-B-B-A F7 on the eastbound Chief at Highland Park, CA...

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:06 PM

The E1A is one of AT&SF's four E6As (12-15).  The most visible difference from an E1A is the upper headlight housing.  E3A 11 was nearly identical to an E6A.  B units were 12A, 13A and 15A (and E3B 11A).

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, December 14, 2016 2:11 PM

The E1A is one of AT&SF's four E6As (12-15).  The most visible difference from an E1A is the upper headlight housing (an E1A's headlight doesn't have a housing).  E3A 11 was nearly identical to an E6A.  B units were 12A, 13A and 15A (and E3B 11A).

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 14, 2016 3:19 PM

E1 - without any head light housing

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

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Posted by erikem on Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:31 PM

kgbw49:

The picture after the Del Mar shot looks to be just south of the Encina power station in Carlsbad - now home to the largest desal plant in the US.

 - Erik

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, December 15, 2016 6:49 AM

The 201-powered E's (EA, E1, E2) also had a curved window behind the cab door.  E3's and E6's were virtually indistinguishable.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, December 16, 2016 1:32 PM

Better days in the past

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, December 16, 2016 1:52 PM

I don't know how much better.  That photo is near the IHB/ATSF interchange at McCook and Pielet Brothers' scrapyard is about a half-mile away.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, December 16, 2016 2:57 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
I don't know how much better.  That photo is near the IHB/ATSF interchange at McCook and Pielet Brothers' scrapyard is about a half-mile away.

The loco's better days had passed into history when the picture was taken.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

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Posted by kgbw49 on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 10:36 PM

Here is the Carlsbad Desalination Plant, right next to the former ATSF San Diego line...

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PA on a stub track in Fort Worth...

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Meet in Fort Worth...

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A-B-A on Raton Pass...

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A-B-A close up at Morley, CO...

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E1A with a dapper hogger...

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2-8-8-2 ex N&W Y3 leading E6A-E6B combo over Raton Pass...

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Erie-Built A-B-A set in what looks to be Clovis, NM...

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Erie-Built A-B-A out on the high iron...

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DL109...

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A-A in what looks to be San Diego, CA...

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A-B-B-A in Merced CA...

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A-A leaving the Bay Area at El Cerrito...

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Who says you can't go home?...

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Still an honorary steam locomotive...

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