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Western Maryland M-1 And M-1a 2-6-6-2 Classes

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Western Maryland M-1 And M-1a 2-6-6-2 Classes
Posted by kgbw49 on Friday, November 11, 2016 5:22 PM

Apparently nine 2-6-6-2 locomotives numbers 951-959 were built by Baldwin between 1909 and 1911 for the Western Maryland.

All were converted in 1927 to an 0-6-6-0 configuration.

Might the next 2-6-6-2 come out as Western Maryland 960?

WM M-1a 957 2-6-6-2 as built...

Image result for western maryland m-1 steam locomotive

WM M-1a 957 former 2-6-6-2 as rebuilt to 0-6-6-0 configuration...

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, November 12, 2016 10:16 AM

I don't know.  If you're talking about the Western Maryland Scenic altering C&O 1309 into an ersatz WM 0-6-6-0 I can't see it happening.  Remember WM Scenic doesn't own 1309, it's a loaner from the B&O Museum, and there's no practical reason for doing so anyway.

At any rate, 0-6-6-0's were used mostly as pushers or for heavy yard work, not as over-rhe-road locomotives, and 1309 is going to be used as a road engine, even though it's going to be pulling passenger cars.

Anyway, sorry if I misunderstood your post.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Saturday, November 12, 2016 10:46 AM

NO. The cosmetic changes would be too extensive (and expensive), the two locos are not of similar size, and some C&O fans would probably.................. 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, November 12, 2016 11:41 AM

Guys, sorry for any confusion in the original post. What I was surmising, just for discussion purposes, was that they could perhaps number it 960 and paint it in Western Maryland paint. I should have been clearer that I was definitely not advocating converting it to an 0-6-6-0.

If I recall correctly they numbered their ex-LS&I 2-8-0 as 734, one number above their last class of 2-8-0s.

So in theory, if they used that same rationale, they would number their new 2-6-6-2 one number above their prior 2-6-6-2s.

I think a "960" 2-6-6-2 would look pretty nice with that Western Maryland fireball logo. But that is just one opinion.

Again, my apologies for any confusion in the original post.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, November 12, 2016 11:52 AM

Ah, now that's another story!  Certainly after putting a lot of sweat, money, and probably a little blood into restoring 1309 there's no reason WM Scenic couldn't put "Wild Mary" markings on the engine, we could probably even say they'd earned the right to.

Although as ACY said it's certainly true the C&O fans would have a meltdown over it!

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, November 12, 2016 3:09 PM

Western Maryland H-7a 2-8-0 for comparison purposes...

 

Western Maryland Scenic 734 for comparison purposes...

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:01 PM

kgbw49
Guys, sorry for any confusion in the original post. What I was surmising, just for discussion purposes, was that they could perhaps number it 960 and paint it in Western Maryland paint. I should have been clearer that I was definitely not advocating converting it to an 0-6-6-0.

If I recall correctly they numbered their ex-LS&I 2-8-0 as 734, one number above their last class of 2-8-0s.

So in theory, if they used that same rationale, they would number their new 2-6-6-2 one number above their prior 2-6-6-2s.

I think a "960" 2-6-6-2 would look pretty nice with that Western Maryland fireball logo. But that is just one opinion.

Again, my apologies for any confusion in the original post.

LS&I doesn't have a big mid-Atlantic area following, so making is WM 734 didn't offend much of anyone.

C&O has a LARGE mid-Atlantic following - making the CO 1309 into WM 960 would be similar to firing on Fort Sumpter over a century ago.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, November 12, 2016 5:42 PM

That brings a picture to my mind of a bunch of crazy C&O rail fans trying to steal the locomotive and take it back to Virginia by taking it off the eastbound trip at Frostburg and making a run for it, and the WMSR conductor giving chase with the 734 running tender first.

As long as there is not a hardcore C&O fan named Andrews, it will probably never happen.

Then again, do they serve adult beverages at the C&O Historical Society meetings? ;-)

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, November 12, 2016 7:40 PM

Great post kgb!  Dang, wish I'd thought of it...

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 13, 2016 8:08 AM

Any history of WM borrowing C&O steam poower?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 13, 2016 8:23 AM

Any history of WM borrowing C&O steam poower?

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, November 13, 2016 9:01 AM

daveklepper

Any history of WM borrowing C&O steam poower?

No!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, November 13, 2016 2:16 PM

In addition to dozens of 2-8-0s:

Western Maryland rostered 20 of these beasts...

And a dozen of these beasts...

Plus a dozen of these monsters...

 

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Posted by JimValle on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 4:07 PM
I'm not insulted that the LS&I Consolidation is standing in for a Western Maryland 2-8-0. The engine is big for its class, has the same cab and tender configuration and really looks the part. As for the 2-6-6-2 it would be good to have her in any form. To satisfy purists, it might be practical to make up insignia plates out of sheet metal that could be hung on the engine as desired. C&O numbers and lettering were quite small in the latter days of steam and WM plates could fit right over them. How hard could that be? After all, it's not like currently active steamers never "impersonated" other locos for special events and excursions.
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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 5:40 PM

I'm with you Jim, paint her as a wm loco. They bought and paid for her. Restored her. So she is theirs.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 6:04 PM

ROBERT WILLISON
I'm with you Jim, paint her as a wm loco. They bought and paid for her. Restored her. So she is theirs.

They didn't buy it or pay for it - it is on loan from the B&O Museum.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 7:08 PM

Oops I stand corrected, but they are paying for the restoration. I'm guessing we need to see what the agreement with the museum says.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 8:36 PM

I have been thinking about this a little more, and from a branding perspective, when this 2-6-6-2 becomes operational it will become the "face" of the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad for quite some time.

It will in all probability be one of (if not the) most-photographed units in the country in 2017 and will be used in promotional literature of all types to try to attract customers. So I am thinking the WMSR will want its "brand" out there, which would tend to lean to a WM fireball paint job as 734 has.

In a similar situation 2000 miles away, Black Hills Central 110 does not have "Weyerhaeuser Timber" or "Rayonier Lumber" emblazoned on its flanks. By the way, if you have not had the chance to ride the Black Hills Central, you will not be disappointed if you go. Plus a great place to do loads of other things also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRxLjcv8Fas

Image result for black hills central 110

 

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Posted by Beach Bill on Friday, December 16, 2016 2:51 PM

kgbw49

By the way, if you have not had the chance to ride the Black Hills Central, you will not be disappointed if you go.

Not intending to hijack the thread, but I concur on the Black Hills Central as a great destination.    I've seen quite a few steam locomotives, but I was amazed.  That is one of the loudest steam locomotives I have ever seen.  Everything about it is loud:  the exhaust, the whistle, the pop valves.   I had a great time visiting there on Memorial Day weekend about 2 years ago.   There is also a very friendly and relaxed bar serving their own micro-brew there in town.

Anyone have any update on the progress of the Western Maryland Scenic 2-6-6-2 restoration or an expected service date?     That is on my side of the country and would be worth a visit.  I went there a number of years ago on what had to be the hottest day of the summer - close to 100 degrees.  The benefit for me was that everyone stayed in the air conditioning and I had the side door of the baggage compartment to myself to listen to the 2-8-0 work.

Bill

With reasonable men, I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will certainly be lost. William Lloyd Garrison
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Posted by ACY Tom on Friday, December 16, 2016 6:06 PM

Probably best to wait for some definite announcement from WM Scenic before making your travel plans. I understand they are making good progress, but these things take as long as they take, and no less. Sometimes longer. 

Tom

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, December 17, 2016 10:49 PM

One wonders if WMSR had not been successful in leasing 1309 if they might have gone the 2-10-0 route instead (PRR 4483 or AT&N 401, perhaps). Here is some Western Maryland 2-10-0 heritage:

I-1 "light" 2-10-0 with 51,490 lbs of tractive effort:

Image result for western maryland 2-10-0

I-2 1129 with 96,315 lbs of tractive effort (in the neighborhood of Pennsy I1 with 102,027 lbs of tractive effort)...

Image result for western maryland 2-10-0

I-2 1116 through Connellsville, PA showing a big barrel of a boiler...

Image result for western maryland 2-10-0

I-2 1125 wedge portrait...

Image result for western maryland 2-10-0

I-2 1113 leading a long string of hoppers down Hemstetter's Curve...

Image result for western maryland 2-10-0

I-2 heading upgrade on Hemstetter's curve...

Image result for western maryland 2-10-0

 

 

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, December 17, 2016 10:57 PM

The only REAL WM engine still in existance is 202 at Hagerstown

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Posted by Savage Tunnel on Sunday, December 18, 2016 9:39 AM

BaltACD

The only REAL WM engine still in existance is 202 at Hagerstown

 

Doesn't Shay #6 count as a "real" WM locomotive? It put in almost 5 years of honest work before the Vindex branch's closing put her in storage. Of course you can still ride behind her at Cass, her home since 1981.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Sunday, December 18, 2016 10:24 AM

BaltACD

The only REAL WM engine still in existance is 202 at Hagerstown

 

Of course there is Shay no. 6 at Cass, but 202 is the only conventional WM rod engine. 

Tom

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Posted by ACY Tom on Sunday, December 18, 2016 10:33 AM

kgbw49:

I guess a WM "Little 1100" would be possible if you could get one of the existing Russians: According to steamlocomotive.com, they are:

SL-SF 1615              Missile Park, Altus, OK

SL-SF 1621              Museum of Transportation, St. Louis, MO

SL-SF 1625              Museum of the Amer. RR, Frisco, TX

SL-SF 1630              IL Ry. Museum, Union, IL

SL-SF 1632              Belton, MO

SAL 544 (GM 206)  NC Transportation Museum, Spencer, NC

Good luck getting one!

As for the "Big 1100's", there is nothing in existence that could come close. 

Tom

PS: I'm guessing that's not a PRR I1sa but a WM H-6 or H-7a 2-8-0 beside 1129. The square valve chest was the first & most evident clue.  

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Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, December 19, 2016 11:21 PM

Just for the fun of comparing, (not that this unit would ever run on WMSR), I think this might be the only 2-10-0 left that could give the "Big 1100's" a run for their money with 62 inch drivers and 102,027 lbs of tractive effort...

PRR I1 on Horseshoe Curve...

Image result for pennsylvania railroad I-1

PRR I1 with long distance tender...

Related image

PRR I1 with original-sized tender...

Image result for pennsylvania railroad I-1

PRR I1 topping off the tank...

Image result for pennsylvania railroad I-1

PRR I1 oiling around...

Image result for pennsylvania railroad I-1

PRR doubleheaded I1 pushers on Horseshoe Curve...

Image result for 2-10-4 locomotives

PRR doubleheaded I1s on the departure track...

Related image

PRR I1s in the East Altoona yard...

Related image

PRR I1 coaled up in Columbus, OH...

Image result for 2-10-4 locomotives

 

 

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 7:02 AM

RDG I-2's and PRR I1's are rather atypical 2-10-0's, similar to 2-10-2's in size and service.  Most Decapods in North America were built for lighter rail.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 11:37 AM

Typical small US 2-10-0's:

RDG "Russian"   183,500# wt.; 51,490# t.e.

AT&N 401(BLW light)   214,300# wt; 49,000# t.e.

And the really big ones:

PRR I1s   386,100# wt.; 90,000# t.e. 

PRR I1sa   approx. 386,100# wt.; 96,000# t.e.

WM I-2   419,280# wt; 96,300# t.e. (LNE copies similar)

CSSHEGEWISCH: RDG had a small group of relatively short-lived Russians, but never a really big Decapod. I think you were thinking of the class K-1 2-10-2's. 

Tom

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 12:03 PM

My mistake:  I was thinking WM but wrote RDG Oops

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 9:12 PM

Lehigh & New England 2-10-0 with tender booster for comparison purposes with Western Maryland "Big 1100s"...

Image result for western maryland 2-10-0

Western Maryland Russian Little 1100 with capped stack...

Image result for western maryland 2-10-0

WM hefty 2-8-0...

Related image

WM 4-6-2 Pacific 208 at Cumberland, MD...

Image result for western maryland 2-10-0

 

 

 

 

 

 

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