Germane to the actual original query:No railroad actually had a "business car RDC" buily by Budd.However, Maryland Rail Commuter (MARC) did have one of its former B&O RDCs, former B&O baggage-dinette-coach RDC-2 1960, later MDOT 9940, into MARC 1, which was supposedly/functionally "MARC's business car:" The car got little more than a refurbished interior, not classic "business car" touches like sleeping accommodations or mahagony interior. MARC personnel later told me that with both this car and the later ex-NYC round-end observation they acquired, they had problems with state officials and politicians learning of the existence of said car(s) and wanting them put to use for their benefit, in some cases in impossible ways (running where track couldn't legally handle any passenger trains, for example). Last I heard, this car now survives, as inaccurately-painted B&O 1960, on either the Danbury Railroad Museum line or on the Hobo Railroad in New Hampshire.
Budd's warranty may have frowned on RDCs pulling trailing cars, but there are plenty of pictures of just that occurring on the M&StL and C&O, to name two railroads.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/artpeterson/cordc4908110-62wam.jpg
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
The RDC was a DMU, and Budd's warranty disallowed pulling any trailer cars (as this would damage the transmission), the warranty then being void. Some railroads got around this by using two RDCs, and the B&M bought RDC-9s.
I believe it was SP that tried running an RDC pulling a baggage car between Sacramento and Davis and had problems due to torque convertor overheating. The RDC was later sent to run on NWP (The "Redwood")
ndbprrIf I had the funds I would have a DMU converted rather then an RDC.
But isn't the Budd RDC a DMU?
I understood that the main difference is one of age, as well as the fact that RDCs appear to be able to be operated on US rails without FRA exemptions, while most new DMUs available today are non-US, and do not generally meet FRA requirements.
On the other hand, I believe US Railcar, which acquired the Colorado Railcar (ex-Rader Railcar) patents and designs, does still offer to design US-built FRA-compliant DMUs.
OvermodIt does seem like a very logical use of the Budd technology, and might have been substantially enhanced in usefulness if 'official' Budd policy did not forbid operation with a conventional business car as a trailer...
The M&StL had some RDCs which they used with heavyweight trailers. It was not successful and they traded the units to the C&O.
DeggestyBack about 46 years ago, I had the impression that braking power entered into the rule.
There were issues with Budd RDC braking power. In February 1965, for the one month, Dad was the Station Agent at Crossfield, AB on the Calgary-Edmonton line. This was right after we left Irricana and before he was set up as a Dispatcher in Calgary.
For certain passenger trains, Crossfield was a Flag Stop. A combination green/white flag would be inserted into a hole on the the Train Order Semaphore pole. But from one direction, I forget which, if the Engineer was not right on the ball he would overshoot the station by several car lengths. There was an unofficial workaround for this, by setting a red board with the semaphore to give the Engineer that bit of extra warning due to the extra height of the signal. The rules experts can debate the official meaning of a red over green/white signal, but back in the sixties it seemed to work OK.
EDIT: This had not been a problem with earlier conventional passenger train service.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
I doubt it. That company went bankrupt a couple years ago and is being liquidated.
8 n' Sand
Leo_AmesAny idea which Western Class 1's had a large percentage of its mainline devoid of passenger traffic at that time?
Or, perhaps, a Western Class I that already had a percentage of its passenger service being provided by Budd RDCs ... and wanted a business car that could be attached to such a train when desired (the Budd company being averse to the use of trailers, particularly heavy ones). My vote is for Western Pacific.
BaltACDDeggesty BaltACD Deggesty Then it is an RJC (Rail Jet Car). Balt, does your road have any regulations concerning an RJC? Same speed restrictions would apply - single engine or Budd car - 30 MPH account of the signal system and crossing protection having trouble with a single piece of equipment operating at higher speeds. Two engines, Budd cars or RJC could operate at maximum track speed. Back about 46 years ago, I had the impression that braking power entered into the rule. In the spring, I rode a single car RDC train from Baltimore to Washington, and, in June, I rode the two car train that connected from the Capitol Limited, and the two car train had a much faster schedule. I am away from home, so I am unable to look the schedules up. My understanding is that the 30 MPH restriction on single engine operations had to do with the signals and crossing protection of the day being relay controlled - if the circuits were tripped too rapidly the relays didn't have time to perform their functions and activate the appropriate protection. Personal observation when riding the dome car on the Capitol Limited, with the train moving at track speed it would take until about the 3rd car was going past the signal for the signal to actually display the red aspects - time for the relays to do their job.
Deggesty BaltACD Deggesty Then it is an RJC (Rail Jet Car). Balt, does your road have any regulations concerning an RJC? Same speed restrictions would apply - single engine or Budd car - 30 MPH account of the signal system and crossing protection having trouble with a single piece of equipment operating at higher speeds. Two engines, Budd cars or RJC could operate at maximum track speed. Back about 46 years ago, I had the impression that braking power entered into the rule. In the spring, I rode a single car RDC train from Baltimore to Washington, and, in June, I rode the two car train that connected from the Capitol Limited, and the two car train had a much faster schedule. I am away from home, so I am unable to look the schedules up.
BaltACD Deggesty Then it is an RJC (Rail Jet Car). Balt, does your road have any regulations concerning an RJC? Same speed restrictions would apply - single engine or Budd car - 30 MPH account of the signal system and crossing protection having trouble with a single piece of equipment operating at higher speeds. Two engines, Budd cars or RJC could operate at maximum track speed.
Deggesty Then it is an RJC (Rail Jet Car). Balt, does your road have any regulations concerning an RJC?
Then it is an RJC (Rail Jet Car). Balt, does your road have any regulations concerning an RJC?
Same speed restrictions would apply - single engine or Budd car - 30 MPH account of the signal system and crossing protection having trouble with a single piece of equipment operating at higher speeds. Two engines, Budd cars or RJC could operate at maximum track speed.
My understanding is that the 30 MPH restriction on single engine operations had to do with the signals and crossing protection of the day being relay controlled - if the circuits were tripped too rapidly the relays didn't have time to perform their functions and activate the appropriate protection.
Personal observation when riding the dome car on the Capitol Limited, with the train moving at track speed it would take until about the 3rd car was going past the signal for the signal to actually display the red aspects - time for the relays to do their job.
Johnny
Any idea which Western Class 1's had a large percentage of its mainline devoid of passenger traffic at that time? That's about the only thing I could think of as a possible clue since just tacking on a business car to the rear of a streamliner would be the more expedient thing to do when possible.
Whatever party it was, I wonder if they instead invested in something like a used DC-3. This was right about that time where large Class 1's, like many other powerful corporations, started to think about aviation and railroad business car fleets started to be slashed as executives stopped using them for normal business travel in favor of the corporate aircraft.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The business-car report is in "Arrivals and Departures" (p.12 of that issue). Surely there was something in the contemporary railroad press about this that has more detail.
It does seem like a very logical use of the Budd technology, and might have been substantially enhanced in usefulness if 'official' Budd policy did not forbid operation with a conventional business car as a trailer...
Incidentally, before Amtrak tariffs went into effect, a ticket Chicago-Washington and Chicago-Baltimore cost the same, no matter which road you rode, because of the competition between the B&O and the PRR. When I bought my ticket in Chicago, the clerk had a little trouble understanding that even though I wanted a slumber room to Washington, I wanted my rail ticket to read to Baltimore. Apparently very few people wanted what I wanted.
You could always put a jet engine on the roof like the NYC did.
Overmod daveklepperI am sure Railway Equipment Co. in Moncton, Canada, will be glad to supply one in excellent operating condiiton, for a good price. But you will have to be sure it will go 88 miles per hour (no optimistic RDC speedometer readings count) in order to get it back to November 1954. ;-}
daveklepperI am sure Railway Equipment Co. in Moncton, Canada, will be glad to supply one in excellent operating condiiton, for a good price.
But you will have to be sure it will go 88 miles per hour (no optimistic RDC speedometer readings count) in order to get it back to November 1954.
;-}
On my carrier a single RDC car or locomotive is restricted to 30 MPH - and will never make it back to 1954.
CSSHEGEWISCH You made a time machine out of an RDC? It sure beats a Delorean.
You made a time machine out of an RDC? It sure beats a Delorean.
They're both stainless steel... C&NW DID convert an RDC into a track inspection car.
Makes sense. The official can go when and where he pleases, subject to slots opening up on heavily ussed routes, without coupling to a a regular train, freight or passenger. I am sure Railway Equipment Co. in Moncton, Canada, will be glad to supply one in excellent operating condiiton, for a good price.
Anyone have any details about this interesting news piece from the November 1954 issue of Trains?
"A western road is reportedly interested in a business-car edition of the Budd RDC."
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