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Budd RDC business car?

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Budd RDC business car?
Posted by Leo_Ames on Friday, April 25, 2014 1:01 AM

Anyone have any details about this interesting news piece from the November 1954 issue of Trains?

"A western road is reportedly interested in a business-car edition of the Budd RDC."

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 25, 2014 3:39 AM

Makes sense.  The official can go when and where he pleases, subject to slots opening up on heavily ussed routes, without coupling to a a regular train, freight or passenger.   I am sure Railway Equipment Co. in Moncton, Canada, will be glad to supply one in excellent operating condiiton, for a good price.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, April 25, 2014 6:08 AM

daveklepper
I am sure Railway Equipment Co. in Moncton, Canada, will be glad to supply one in excellent operating condiiton, for a good price.

But you will have to be sure it will go 88 miles per hour (no optimistic RDC speedometer readings count) in order to get it back to November 1954.

;-}

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, April 25, 2014 6:49 AM

You made a time machine out of an RDC?Wow  It sure beats a Delorean.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, April 25, 2014 7:30 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

You made a time machine out of an RDC?Wow  It sure beats a Delorean.

They're both stainless steel... C&NW DID convert an RDC into a track inspection car.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, April 25, 2014 12:53 PM

Overmod

daveklepper
I am sure Railway Equipment Co. in Moncton, Canada, will be glad to supply one in excellent operating condiiton, for a good price.

But you will have to be sure it will go 88 miles per hour (no optimistic RDC speedometer readings count) in order to get it back to November 1954.

;-}

On my carrier a single RDC car or locomotive is restricted to 30 MPH - and will never make it back to 1954.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by pajrr on Friday, April 25, 2014 1:50 PM

You could always put a jet engine on the roof like the NYC did.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, April 25, 2014 5:37 PM

Then it is an RJC (Rail Jet Car). Balt, does your road have any regulations concerning an RJC?Smile

Johnny

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, April 26, 2014 6:15 AM

Deggesty

Then it is an RJC (Rail Jet Car). Balt, does your road have any regulations concerning an RJC?Smile

Same speed restrictions would apply - single engine or Budd car - 30 MPH account of the signal system and crossing protection having trouble with a single piece of equipment operating at higher speeds.  Two engines, Budd cars or RJC could operate at maximum track speed.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, April 26, 2014 6:38 AM

BaltACD

Deggesty

Then it is an RJC (Rail Jet Car). Balt, does your road have any regulations concerning an RJC?Smile

Same speed restrictions would apply - single engine or Budd car - 30 MPH account of the signal system and crossing protection having trouble with a single piece of equipment operating at higher speeds.  Two engines, Budd cars or RJC could operate at maximum track speed.

Back about 46 years ago, I had the impression that braking power entered into the rule. In the spring, I rode a single car RDC train from Baltimore to Washington, and, in June, I rode the two car train that connected from the Capitol Limited, and the two car train had a much faster schedule. I am away from home, so I am unable to look the schedules up. 

Incidentally, before Amtrak tariffs went into effect, a ticket Chicago-Washington and Chicago-Baltimore cost the same, no matter which road you rode, because of the competition between the B&O and the PRR. When I bought my ticket in Chicago, the clerk had a little trouble understanding that even though I wanted a slumber room to Washington, I wanted my rail ticket to read to Baltimore. Apparently very few people wanted what I wanted.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:24 AM

The business-car report is in "Arrivals and Departures" (p.12 of that issue).  Surely there was something in the contemporary railroad press about this that has more detail.

It does seem like a very logical use of the Budd technology, and might have been substantially enhanced in usefulness if 'official' Budd policy did not forbid operation with a conventional business car as a trailer...

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, April 26, 2014 11:37 AM

Deggesty

BaltACD

Deggesty

Then it is an RJC (Rail Jet Car). Balt, does your road have any regulations concerning an RJC?Smile

Same speed restrictions would apply - single engine or Budd car - 30 MPH account of the signal system and crossing protection having trouble with a single piece of equipment operating at higher speeds.  Two engines, Budd cars or RJC could operate at maximum track speed.

Back about 46 years ago, I had the impression that braking power entered into the rule. In the spring, I rode a single car RDC train from Baltimore to Washington, and, in June, I rode the two car train that connected from the Capitol Limited, and the two car train had a much faster schedule. I am away from home, so I am unable to look the schedules up. 

 

My understanding is that the 30 MPH restriction on single engine operations had to do with the signals and crossing protection of the day being relay controlled - if the circuits were tripped too rapidly the relays didn't have time to perform their functions and activate the appropriate protection.

Personal observation when riding the dome car on the Capitol Limited, with the train moving at track speed it would take until about the 3rd car was going past the signal for the signal to actually display the red aspects - time for the relays to do their job.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Saturday, April 26, 2014 6:25 PM

Overmod
It does seem like a very logical use of the Budd technology, and might have been substantially enhanced in usefulness if 'official' Budd policy did not forbid operation with a conventional business car as a trailer...

Any idea which Western Class 1's had a large percentage of its mainline devoid of passenger traffic at that time? That's about the only thing I could think of as a possible clue since just tacking on a business car to the rear of a streamliner would be the more expedient thing to do when possible. 

Whatever party it was, I wonder if they instead invested in something like a used DC-3. This was right about that time where large Class 1's, like many other powerful corporations, started to think about aviation and railroad business car fleets started to be slashed as executives stopped using them for normal business travel in favor of the corporate aircraft. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, April 28, 2014 10:38 AM
BaltACD

Deggesty

BaltACD

Deggesty

Then it is an RJC (Rail Jet Car). Balt, does your road have any regulations concerning an RJC?Smile

Same speed restrictions would apply - single engine or Budd car - 30 MPH account of the signal system and crossing protection having trouble with a single piece of equipment operating at higher speeds.  Two engines, Budd cars or RJC could operate at maximum track speed.

Back about 46 years ago, I had the impression that braking power entered into the rule. In the spring, I rode a single car RDC train from Baltimore to Washington, and, in June, I rode the two car train that connected from the Capitol Limited, and the two car train had a much faster schedule. I am away from home, so I am unable to look the schedules up. 

 

My understanding is that the 30 MPH restriction on single engine operations had to do with the signals and crossing protection of the day being relay controlled - if the circuits were tripped too rapidly the relays didn't have time to perform their functions and activate the appropriate protection.

Personal observation when riding the dome car on the Capitol Limited, with the train moving at track speed it would take until about the 3rd car was going past the signal for the signal to actually display the red aspects - time for the relays to do their job.

Yes, that was my observation, no matter on which road I was riding--IC, ACL, NP, UP, GN, SOU, N&W, etc.

Johnny

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, April 28, 2014 12:51 PM

Leo_Ames
Any idea which Western Class 1's had a large percentage of its mainline devoid of passenger traffic at that time?

Or, perhaps, a Western Class I that already had a percentage of its passenger service being provided by Budd RDCs ... and wanted a business car that could be attached to such a train when desired (the Budd company being averse to the use of trailers, particularly heavy ones).  My vote is for Western Pacific.

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Posted by LocoEngineer7 on Tuesday, July 8, 2014 9:51 AM

I doubt it. That company went bankrupt a couple years ago and is being liquidated.

8 n' Sand

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Posted by AgentKid on Tuesday, July 8, 2014 3:45 PM

Deggesty
Back about 46 years ago, I had the impression that braking power entered into the rule.

There were issues with Budd RDC braking power. In February 1965, for the one month, Dad was the Station Agent at Crossfield, AB on the Calgary-Edmonton line. This was right after we left Irricana and before he was set up as a Dispatcher in Calgary.

For certain passenger trains, Crossfield was a Flag Stop. A combination green/white flag would be inserted into a hole on the the Train Order Semaphore pole. But from one direction, I forget which, if the Engineer was not right on the ball he would overshoot the station by several car lengths. There was an unofficial workaround for this, by setting a red board with the semaphore to give the Engineer that bit of extra warning due to the extra height of the signal. The rules experts can debate the official meaning of a red over green/white signal, but back in the sixties it seemed to work OK.

EDIT: This had not been a problem with earlier conventional passenger train service.

Bruce

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Posted by ndbprr on Sunday, July 13, 2014 5:24 PM
If I had the funds I would have a DMU converted rather then an RDC.
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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, July 13, 2014 6:47 PM

Overmod
It does seem like a very logical use of the Budd technology, and might have been substantially enhanced in usefulness if 'official' Budd policy did not forbid operation with a conventional business car as a trailer...

The M&StL had some RDCs which they used with heavyweight trailers.  It was not successful and they traded the units to the C&O.

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Posted by Dragoman on Sunday, July 13, 2014 9:25 PM

ndbprr
If I had the funds I would have a DMU converted rather then an RDC.

But isn't the Budd RDC a DMU? 

I understood that the main difference is one of age, as well as the fact that RDCs appear to be able to be operated on US rails without FRA exemptions, while most new DMUs available today are non-US, and do not generally meet FRA requirements.

On the other hand, I believe US Railcar, which acquired the Colorado Railcar (ex-Rader Railcar) patents and designs, does still offer to design US-built FRA-compliant DMUs.

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Posted by ATSF2499 on Monday, July 14, 2014 8:43 PM

I believe it was SP that tried running an RDC pulling a baggage car between Sacramento and Davis and had problems due to torque convertor overheating. The RDC was later sent to run on NWP (The "Redwood")

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Posted by NorthWest on Monday, July 14, 2014 9:24 PM

The RDC was a DMU, and Budd's warranty disallowed pulling any trailer cars (as this would damage the transmission), the warranty then being void. Some railroads got around this by using two RDCs, and the B&M bought RDC-9s.

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Posted by rfpjohn on Monday, July 14, 2014 9:45 PM
The PRSL ran them 70mph in single unit consists until the advent of Conrail and probably until the end of the shore service in the early 80s. 70 was the timetable speed, in reality, they ran as fast as they would go! I seem to recall single cars topping out at about 80, I clocked many a mile at 85 on two car trains and saw 90 on the speedometer as I stood in the vestibule next to the engineer one Labor Day evening! So if your going to go back in time, you're going to have to spring for a multiple unit RDC business car train.
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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, July 15, 2014 4:49 PM

Budd's warranty may have frowned on RDCs pulling trailing cars, but there are plenty of pictures of just that occurring on the M&StL and C&O, to name two railroads.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/artpeterson/cordc4908110-62wam.jpg

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Posted by LNER4472 on Thursday, July 31, 2014 11:04 AM

Germane to the actual original query:

No railroad actually had a "business car RDC" buily by Budd.

However, Maryland Rail Commuter (MARC) did have one of its former B&O RDCs, former B&O baggage-dinette-coach RDC-2 1960, later MDOT 9940, into MARC 1, which was supposedly/functionally "MARC's business car:"  The car got little more than a refurbished interior, not classic "business car" touches like sleeping accommodations or mahagony interior.   MARC personnel later told me that with both this car and the later ex-NYC round-end observation they acquired, they had problems with state officials and politicians learning of the existence of said car(s) and wanting them put to use for their benefit, in some cases in impossible ways (running where track couldn't legally handle any passenger trains, for example).  Last I heard, this car now survives, as inaccurately-painted B&O 1960, on either the Danbury Railroad Museum line or on the Hobo Railroad in New Hampshire.

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