TRACKSIDE PROTOCALL IN THIS DAY AND AGE

[Anonymous]

During the past year my friends and myself have been questioned on various occasions, trackside, by the police regarding our hobby of railfanning. I was taking pictures of the Model Railroad 70th aniversary boxcar yesterday and while in the performance of this innocent passtime, I found myself looking over my shoulder anticipating the police to arrive and question me. I assure you I was parked legally on a public road but I still had the feeling I was going to be confronted. In this day and age I completely respect the task of protecting the Homeland, but once in a while I miss the "old days" when 3 - 50ish, overweight , Irish guys could hang out trackside for a few hours and not , as in one instance, be frisked, questioned etc. As one of my friends is fond of saying
"IT ISN'T THE GUYS YOU SEE, BUT THE ONES YOU DON'T SEE WHO WE SHOUD BE WORRIED ABOUT" How do you feel about this issue ?[?][?]

[Anonymous]

I think that as trainspotting and -fanning grow in popularity, there will be more and more situations where the fans' needs are overruled by overconscientious security cops. Eventually I think there will be a better common-law understanding that most of the time, photographing trains is not illegal (it practically never is from public property). At the same time, the RR's will be putting more energy into keeping their tracksides and other legal ROW free from observers. I think this will eventually happen no matter how strictly the Patriot Act is interpreted, because it doesn't ban taking photos. But if the Patriot Act were repealed tomorrow, the RR's will still want to beef up security on their own turf--but, being RR's they're too cheap to do a thorough job of it.

[Anonymous]

I've read a lot about railfans and police - I've been railfanning for many a year now and travel frequently to the US each year with friends specifically for a railfan week away - photographing - Only once have I been approached by a railroad police officer - that was in the Chicago area. He asked for our identification and asked what we were doing - it was obvious but I understand his questions because I too am a police officer and I too enjoy my hobby of railfanning. Once I produced the proper identification we had a great time - I've been many places in the US photographing many railroads without incident or even questions being asked. Sometimes it just boils down to being polite, curtious and clearly asking permission - it is amazing and refreshing how much friendship you can develope between people who have a common interest in trains. Just be up front, ask permission and be freindly - railfanning is alive and well and available.

[PBenham]

The problem is not in the Patriot act-Per say- rather, it is in the overzealous employees, or worse ANGRY[:(!] employees that do not like being watched. Those guys/ gals are on the brink of disciplinary action , but as long as they stay "clean enough" there we are. I won't name the Carriers that use spies, since I do not want to falsely accuse an innocent carrier. Nor, do I want to blow any covers! The terrorists are winning, every time our rights are denied, and there is precious little to be done about it unless one has the time and is rich or poor enough to have a lawyer to fight the battle, when necessary.

[Anonymous]

none of this has ever happened to me yet anyway

[stevewf1]

I've done a lot of train-watching and photography on the line between Indianapolis and Terre Haute, IN and I've never had any problems. But there are certain guidelines I always follow:

Some of these should seem obvious, but having witnessed the actions of other fans, I sometimes wonder...

1) The railroad was not put there for your enjoyment. Remember that your favorite railroad is a business trying to make a profit. It was not built just for you.
2) Stay out of the way of the trains. At some locations in Northern Indiana, I've seen fans set thier tripods up right next to the rails or even between the rails to get that "dramatic" head-on picture of an approaching train. The crews don't like this even though you know what you're doing.
3) Stay off the bridges. If you photograph or watch a passing train from a bridge, always walk off to the side before the train arrives. This will show the crew that you're not going to throw or kick anything onto them. If you're in your car, drive off to the side.
4) Let them know you see them. If a train is approaching and the crew blows the horn, face the train and give them a big wave. They see you and you're letting them know you see them.

That's four things, can anybody think of more?

[canazar]

This is a good thread. I like the idea of posting up "guidelines". I dont wanna call them rules, but maybe the best way to act around the railroads this day and age. I admit, sounds like the "good ole" days are over. But then again, I have had nothign but good luck and even gotten a short cab ride.

I had a few things...

1) Think about if someone was watching you at work, how would you want them to act?

2) And the big one..... I take this from a "Dad" point of view since most of the time, I am out railfanning with my son who is 5. When he was younger, say 3-4 years old, I would either pick him up, of bend down on one knee and wrap my arm around him so the crew could see that I had solid grip on him and he wasnt going anywhere. Now that he going on 6 and he knows the drill, but I still hold his hand or put a hand on his shoulder so the crew and can see, I still have a grip on him.

Well, we got to know a local crew fairly well and one night we all waiting for a main to come through and we were all sitting around chatting away. While conductor was talking to the kiddo, the engineer turned to me and commented that he liked that I held the kid when ever they came by in the past. Said once he saw who it was (we hung out there for awhile before we met themn) they relaxed....alot. i suppose that simple action showed the crew we knew what was up and how to act. Which is why they probably gave the kid a latern. Little[V] punk wont share it either.... hehehe[;)]

3) Also, I now know a handful of engineers and other crew members. Alot of them know and enjoy the common, happy go lucky railfan. I was talking to one this past weekend and he filled me on all kinds of things. Something the guy above posted was to acknowledge the train and crew with a wave and smile. Well, there is another reason to do that. He explained the aot of poeple die by train due to suicide. They will just walk in front at the last second.

He mentioned they always get alittle nervous when people are close to tracks and just stare blank. Apperantly, it happens a whole lot more than we hear. They (being the RR's) like to keep it as quiet as possible so others dont get the idea. Best thing you can do is turn and smile and wave. [:D]

Just some other thoughts..

[Anonymous]

I was stopped by a railroad security officer years ago. He asked what I was doing and I replyed watching trains with my son. I asked if he liked football to which he replyed yes. I said I liked trains. He reply was " Good enough" be sure ot stay off the tracks and he drove off. I did very recently ( 2 yr ) have a railroad emplyee deliberately park a high rail piece of equipment so that I could only get in my car by crawling across the seat. He made a point of doing it. I was watching and taking pictures of a wow crew cuting logs using a saw powered by their on the track high rail vehicles. The cutting crew were independant contractors and were very friendly. Phil

[Anonymous]

In some ways you can't blame the railroad police for being a little more cautious. Even long before September 11th railroads still had to contend with thieves and vandalism. Joyriders were also a big problem. With injury lawsuits being even more common and insurance costs through the roof nowadays that's all the more reason for them to be concerned.

I've never had any problems though. So long as you stay a safe distance from the tracks, remain on public property and don't get in the way they won't really hassle you.

[Poppa_Zit]

The other day I was watching trains in the Chicago suburbs, parked in a public commuter lot adjacent to the tracks. A RR police officer approached in his vehicle and asked what I was doing.

After I told him, he said "You guys are our eyes and ears when we're not around." And he gave me for my truck a sticker with the train emergency/crime/trespass phone number for his RR -- and then we had an interesting 30-minute conversation. What a great guy! And he gave me a beautiful 2006 calendar from his RR, the kind with one train photo for each month!

Maybe... just maybe... the RR suits are s-l-o-w-l-y starting to realize we can stay out of the way and be helpful, too.

Made me feel good for a change.

[Anonymous]

Actually the increase in Track-Side Security happened in 1996. It was 5 years in advance of September 11th, 2001 that the Police turned up the heat in Michigan. They started to show up everywhere between 1996 and 2003. In the past 2 years the security forces have actually tapered off or I have just missed their appearances.

Andrew F.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

As a rule of thumb, I try to stay in obviously public areas and remain quite visible. CSX Special Agents make the rounds regularly at Blue Island and I give them a wave when I see them. There have been a few times when I've been on railroad property and the special agents took my name and address and advised me that I shouldn't be there. I've remained polite in situations like that and have asked for guidance on where I can and can't be to avoid a repeat. It helps.

The four general rules mentioned above are something we should all keep in mind.

[garenbu]

How would you respond to this situation.... My teenage son and I were recently railfanning in a somewhat secluded area of rural northern Indiana. A freight was stopped at a signal by our photo location ( a former overpass ) for an opposing freight about 15 minutes away. A crew member of the stopped freight invited us into the cab to have a look. I declined saying I didn't want to get anyone in trouble. I probably should have asked if it could get anyone in trouble. Even though I "played it safe", I could just about kick myself for not taking them up on the offer. My son could kick me too!

[blhanel]

Hmmm... secluded location, nearest potential witnesses still 15 minutes away- I would've taken 'em up on that one!

OK, turn around...[:D]

[canazar]

I saw this thread get brought up and I had to comment on a story that just happened to me a few months ago. It sums up everything that was just mentioned in the thread above...

My son and I were over watching our favorite local work. Close to the house, easy to find, and chances are, someone on the crew know us. We have been going up there for over 2 years, around once a month or so. Well, dont know us persay, but they remember us as that "dad and kid" combo and always give us some extra toots on the horn or the guys will make and effort to step out and wave to us.

Well, for the first time, I saw another railfan at the same spot. But at first, I didnt think he was....why? becuase he had this insane amout of cameragear and was set up so close to the engines, that only a employee would get that close...or so I thought. Engines were running and they were waiting for the main to leave the Phoenix Yard.
We walked up and kept a safe distance, close 50 feet I guess. We were just checking out the engine and such, doing the usual "Look at that...., etc." The brakeman sees us, we wave, and he comes down out of the cab and walsk over to us, just to say hi and maybe figure us out. Right off the bat, I say, why we are there and if it was ok to hangout. "Oh Sure" Then he started up some small talk, but it was very pleasent. I then asked about the "camera guy with his tripod" and if he was with RR Co.. He sure acted like it, all over the tracks, set up right next to the engine. Instantly, the brakemans face went to in a deep scorn and said "No, I dont know who he is, but he sure is annoying.. He is about 6 inches away from haveing cops called on him." He then went to bag on the guy alot more with words that well..... really cant use on the board.

I was struck by the irony. Here we are, both railfans, but yet, complete contempt to one, and "Nice guy" to me. It turns out, I knew one of the other members of the crew quite well. The brakeman said goobye with a wave and smile when the other fellow came over. We had talked to him before several times in the past and we ended up chatting and hanging for half hour or so. Evenutally, he inivited us and we hung out with the crew for over 2 hours. They answered all my sons he could come up questions in stride too. Even took time to ask my silly questions. We had a ball. With out too much detail, we got the tour of a lifetime of the engine.

I asked later again about the "TriPod Guy", and the 2 other crewman, who I just met an hour ago, popped off with obivous dislike and satrted ripping on the guy. The 3rd crewman, who I knew, could see my reaction, and explained that more or less, they could tell we were different, in short, we had respect. TriPod just walked all over like he owned it (Which, really rubbed the engineer the wrong way) I was awe struck by the irony. But, long story short, it was easy to see how the crews get jadded by people who think they can do what they want. They explained it makes all the difference in the world when we can see the respect for them. Either the simple act of stading just 10 feet farther back, waveing, smileing, etc.

Oh, and the most baffeling thing happened earlier on too.... While I was talking to my freind, Tri-pod guy leaves and we happened to standing in the feild. We were next to his SUV anf when he was loading up his gear, my buddy takes the time to say "Howdy. How you doin tonight? " to the guy.. in the most freidnly way. Tripod gives a kurt nod and say "hi". Close the door and walks off. I couldnt belive it. Sure, maybe if had to bail or was out of time, atleast a thank you or "Take care man" would have been nice.

Go figure.

[Anonymous]

Since there aren't many 'stopping' points on the line between Atlanta, GA and Augusta, GA, I like to 'chase trains' from grade crossing to grade crossing, and at all the neat viewpoints, like the Alcovy River Trestle. I don't ever get in the train's way, and I NEVER try to beat the train across the grade. I just drive from crossing to crossing watching the train. There are also alot of 10-15 mile stretches where the road parallels the tracks, and I'll pace the train as it runs down the tracks.

One night in Social Circle, I had been out chasing trains for about three nights. Most of the trains come through between 10pm-4am, and since I work nights, I'm always up at those hours anyway. I found three trains that night, followed the second one going westbound out of Atlanta, and then found the third one waiting at a meeting point near where I normally turn around. I started following him back toward home, and as I neared Social Circle, I noticed a car passing me going the other direction.

Something in my gut said "That was a cop, and he was watching you." So I play it very safe, and keep my speed down, and just proceed to follow the train. As I neared the city limits of Social Circle, suddenly the same car was behind me out of nowhere. I crossed the bridge overpass over the tracks, headed toward the downtown area (just FYI, this is a very small southern town, not more than a couple blocks make up 'downtown').

Suddenly I get the blue lights behind me. So playing it safe, I found a well lit area and parked. I normally drive with my wallet in my center console, so I reached to get it, and I hear over the cops PA speaker "Show me your hands!". For reference, I was driving in a Jeep Wrangler, with the top off, so he could see every move I make.

So I again play it safe. He comes up to the door, asks for license and insurance, and then tries to get me on 'you were going a little fast back there'. To which I replied, as politely as possible, "Are you sure? Cause I was just pacing the train, it's a hobby of mine, and the train's speed limit in this area is 45 mph, and the speed limit on the road back there was 55mph. I don't think I could've been speeding."

He then asks, "Why were you following the train?" I explained that it's a hobby of mine, I like train watching, and since I work nights, late at night is the best time to see them for me. I explained how since there are very few places to get good pictures of the trains, I just pace along side them for fun. He was taken aback, and couldn't quite understand why anybody would find 'trains' so interesting. He ran my license and when he came back, another cop had pulled up behind him. Apparently nothing else was going on in the town that night. So the first officer explained to the second how this was just a hobby of mine, and I usually do this at night. The second officer seemed more reasonable, and came back to ask a few more questions and explain what was going on. Apparently, the train crew was a regular one on this line, and they had seen me out there several nights in a row. They were concerned and called 911, because they had to stop in Social Circle to make some sort of repairs to the locomotive, and didn't know if I was going to be a problem, like rob them or something. So I told the cops how I usually follow trains on this line from Stone Mountain to Buckhead near Lake Oconee, just watching the trains, and when I have my camera, taking pictures. They said I hadn't really done anything wrong, and they weren't going to ticket me for anything, but it was just a really unusual call and they had to check me out. I thanked them for doing such a great job, and apologized for causing any concern.

My railfanning pretty much ceased at that point for about 6 months, because it scared the crap out of me being the first time I was ever pulled over while train watching. I just started back train watching, but I limit my activities to following well behind the locomotives, and when they pass me, I make a point to wave at them, and occassionally get the double horn toot back. I stay away from obvious 'terrorist' suspect type places, like bridges and overpasses.

I think in this day and age, getting pulled over or questioned by the authorities is going to become very commonplace, and I've accepted the fact that it's something I may have to deal with, even out in the 'stix' where I live.

[Anonymous]

Gentlemen,
I have learned a lot form this thread tonight. Thanks very much for all this information.

I presently live in Lafayette, LA. My problem is I like to watch trains and we don't have any here. We have the former SP double mainline that runs through the northside of the city. It is presently BHSF trackage. We have a couple of freights and Amtrak that runs through. You can count all the industrial spurs here on one hand and have several fingures left over.
In a few months we are hopping to move to Hattiesburg MS. to live. There are three mainlines that go through town there. NS, CN, KCS, and Amtrack which makes stops there.
I have never done any railfaning as per say except at crossings when I stall to stop traffic to see the trains.
These guidelines you have posted will be followed by me and my grand-daughter to the letter.
I have subscribed to Trains Mag tonight and look forward to talking with you all.
I am sure I will have some questions as time passes but thanks again for this insight.
Neal

[Anonymous]

went railfanning to today and photographed trains in the same park for 5 hours, not one person asked what I was doing even though I had a camera, tripod and a folding chair and cooler full of root beer

[canazar]

Alot of the calls that come in our from the crews themselves. Usually, people around you could careless what you are doing or dont even notice. (How often does a car alarm go off and no one look?) So, there are usually 3 scenarios that will get a crew to call you in. (Mind you, most CLass 1, are required to call it in if they see anyone)

1) Very uncommon, but I know for a fact it happens, (Old Head told me so) You give the crew bad time, maybe get to close to the tracks, dont be freindly, park to close too ROW, or maybe, ( I have wathced peopel do amazing stupid things around trains it slike they have a camera and it is a pass to do anything) the crewman is haveing a bad day and your wearing the t-shirt of the football team that beat his on Sunday. He will call you in just to get a giggle.

2) 2nd most common way to get called in.... you do look like you are up to no good. Heck, you think you are hiding to stay out of the crews way to try and not come across as being a pest, watchign every move. They see you as someone trying to be sneaky and hiding from them. They call you, honest mistake.

3) By far, the most likely scenario. The crew is new. They havent been around the rails yet to really know about railfans and foamers. They think who in there right mind would be out here, or up at this hour, or out in this weather just to watch trains... They must be up to something! They call you in. Old hands or veterans know who we are and usually can pin us a mile out along the tracks.

Most of the above, I belive, can be addressed just by being freindly, making sure you are in good spots, out in the open, (not in the way) and good old fashioned wave can get you along way.