Any idea what "spread track" refers to or means?

[dknelson]

At a swap meet I bought a rather old chart or map showing the installation of CTC on the Soo Line between Waukesha Wisconsin and the North Fond du Lac shops of the Soo. (It is long, maybe three to four feet and narrow, maybe 3 or 4 inches). At sidings, such as passing sidings, there are arrows that say "spread track." Does anyone know what this means or refers to?
I cannot tell if it is an order directing the installing crew to do something relative to CTC or signals, or a description of some role the track plays at that point, but it is a repetitive comment at, I think, every passing siding (and there were a fair number on the Soo Line which had a single track main).
Any assistance would be, as the saying goes, gratefully appreciated.
Dave Nelson

[BentnoseWillie]

Maybe something to do with clearances? "Spread track" could refer to the section between the frog and the clearance point. That'd be important in determining the useful length of the siding, and that point would be where the CTC occupancy detector for the siding would be located.

That's my guess...

[CShaveRR]

Could these be places toward the end of sidings where the tracks were spread apart a little more than usual, perhaps to accommodate a signal mast between the tracks? That would have been likely on older installations; much less likely nowadays (both due to signals being on either side of the track instead of just to the right, and the spacing between tracks being further apart all along).

[jchnhtfd]

Used to be that if someone told me that there was a bit of 'spread track' on a section, it meant that for one reason or other the gauge was slightly wide at that point. This is sometimes deliberate -- for example, on relatively sharp curves where long rigid wheelbase equipment runs -- but was sometimes anything but, and a warrant for a slow order or immediate repair[:(]. In this instance, though, with it being so common, sounds to me as though either it is a deliberate widening of gauge or, as CShaveRR suggested, a location where the centre lines were spread to accomodate a signal, derail throw, or something of that sort...

sorry to be vague

[dehusman]

On a profile spread track would refer to places where the track centers were wider than normal so that wide loads could pass.

Dave H.

[kenneo]

Refers to track center distances. Track locations where there is mor than one track such as in yards and at sidings, are measured from track center to track center. Now, the minimum track center to obstacle ( such as the side of a car on an adjacent track is 22 feet, so track spacing would be 24 feet 5 inches. If the distance between track centers is less than that, and if track work other than regular maintenence (such as new ties, tamping) is being done (like putting in CTC), then all of the clearances must be made to current FRA Track Standards. Thus, the SOO needed to "spread" the tracks to increase the clearance between the siding and the main.

You will find tracks built prior to the FRA standards (such as the yards Ed works in) have much closer track spacings, so close, in fact, that some do not clear a man on the side of a car. The new standards are designed to clear a man on the side of a car on both tracks as the meet/pass each other. Once the operational issue of getting one train past the other is resolved, the rest is a safety issue.

[jchnhtfd]

Thank you all, guys...

[dehusman]

The minimum track centers is way narrower than 22 ft (maybe you're thingking vertical clearance.) Steam era standard was usually between 12'6" and 13'6". On modern rebuilds they may space the tracks 20-25 ft apart so that maintenance gangs can work on one track without fouling the the other.

Dave H.

[yellowducky]

To check for clearance along the B&O, I was taught to stand facing down the empty track with one foot along the outside of the rail closest the other track, and swing my opposite arm. If you hit the car, engine, caboose, or oversize load, you're not in the clear enough and might get sideswiped. This did not allow for a man on the side, though. One time I did this and since it was at my finger tips, I radioed that I didn't think the other track was in the clear. The conductor came over, checked, overroad my decision, and sideswiped it[B)].
This is not to say I know what "spread track" means, just that I think it's important to have enough of it. [;)] FDM

[dehusman]

Same way I was told to estimate clearance.

Dave H.

[mudchicken]

dehusman:

Kenneo is dead-on. Any major rehab on yard or siding tracks requires track centers now be in excess of 22 feet. The old state PUC minimums of 15 ft (circa 1968-1975) were voided by federal mandate in 1994. Track centers at one time were allowed as close as 11 ft. for icing platforms and cross docking - no more. The issue is the protection of anyone on foot around rail yards and sidetracks, especially switching leads......

Part of my job requires that I check for side clearances and overhead clearances (clearance envelopes)for new work proposed by outside architects and engineers to be submitted to the railroad(s). Suffice it to say that those outside "E" People and "A" People have no clue (frequently catch them guessing along with a few foremen and roadmasters) and I wish I had the red ink concession!

Mudchicken

ps from MC to yellowducky: Indiana Statute Law 01-01-51has no provision for track centers, BUT CSX/B&O certainly had Chief Engineers Standard Plans that were to be followed and also why had nobody marked the clearance point? (If Husman is out on the left coast, see California General Order 26-D along with the pain in the butt GO-119

[michaelstevens]

Come on all you "railroaders"

"Spread Track" (does, has and prob. always will) means nothing less than the fact that the rails have been SPREAD out of gauge -- usually for no other reason than "lack of adequate maintenance", old, rotten ties have been unable to retain those rusty old spikes and the recent passage of a modern 150 plus tons loco has performed the ultimate "destructive test" !

Recommend checking to see whether thoe "marked" sections of track were actually "in service".

[Anonymous]

You wouldn't mark spread track on a profile, just as you wouldn' mark "bad tie" or "worn switch point". If the track was out of service, it would be marked "out of service".

On a track profile spread track would refer to track centers not gauge.

NHS

[dknelson]

Well this has been an interesting and varied discussion. I would only point out, once again, that this "spread track" phrase was used over and over again at, I am pretty sure, each passing siding. Thus while Michael Stevens's statement makes sense that spread track refers to a gauge issue, in this instance it seems more like a directive, and the idea of greater clearance than usual makes some sense. Oddly however with CTC there should be little need for a crewman to be at the side of a train since the switches are controlled by the dispatcher.
Anyway thanks to all who put in their two cents worth.
Dave Nelson

[mudchicken]

DKN must not be aware of electric lock hand throw switches. Tend to be more of them than power switches in CTC territory. Especially near yards and industry.

Signal people speak a language all to themselves.

Wide gage is what the trainmaster has decided to list as the cause of the derailment that he hasn't arrived at the scene of yet.

Iron feathers

[Anonymous]

Regardless of whether its CTC or not, if you have a wide load that requires a positive meet or two wide loads that have to clear each other you have to know where the two loads can pass and the crew with the load has to get on the ground and watch the other train by the load to make sure it clears.

Unless you had a wide load, you wouldn't care what the track centers are.

Smith

[michaelstevens]

An Engineer told me before he died;
A "chart or map" usually provides the horizontal alignment, grading & drainage, structures, utility poles etc. information, with respect to the centerline of track(s)..
The "profile" drawing usually provides nothing more (or less) than the vertical alignment of top of rail (i.e. % gradients, vertical curves, drainage culverts, items bridged-over etc.).
"Spread Track" is what it is.

[dknelson]

The item in question was neither a track chart in the usual sense or a profile drawing, both of which I am familiar with. It is a completely linear drawing showing each siding and a crossing or two intended I assume solely as a guide to the crew installing CTC (and yes I am well aware of electric lock hand-throw switches). It provides no real detail about the sidings per se but does give the MP.
I am not sure when the Soo Line installed this CTC but it might well have been in steam days.
Dave Nelson