What's more amazing to you?

[ironhorseman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by techguy57

See and thats what really irks me![:(!] "Lets give up safety for convenience! I don't like hearing the train's horn so lets get rid of it." And you know the moment is going to come along when somebody is going to be driving at night talking on their cell phone or watching their DVD player they just had mounted in the front of the car, or maybe even just dog-tired from having to work a double shift and they don't see the train and can't hear it because they aren't paying attention and the hogger can't sound it loud because of some stupid noise restriction ordinance and someone, if not everyone ends up injured, or worse yet someone loses their life, because the guy living in the house 1/2 a mile away finds the train's horn too loud! [xx(] (wow, hopefully no Engli***eachers reading this, that was a nasty run-on sentence!) Then there are lawsuits, probably citing the railroads negligence, all because a couple of people couldn't go to the Walgreens or CVS or Osco and get a box of Nytol to help them go asleep![:(!]

The real problem to these people who are complaining seems to be the matter of convenience. Its inconvenient for them to hear the train horns, the crossing gate bells, the hum of the diesels (all the stuff most of us here get excited about). Its inconvenient for them to get stopped by the train on their way to work, even though its probably delivering the lumber to build his deck.
Now take that same guy, and send him auto shopping for his new SUV. Imagine if there were delays in the freight service that brings parts to the factory that makes the SUV he wants to buy because the trains have to run at reduced speeds because of noise ordinances and related safety precautions. These small delays add up to a larger production delay meaning that his SUV is back ordered for 6 months. He can't drive home his new car and he's mad as hell and he's not gonna take it any more. He'll scream about the car company, and the freight train, and probably tell the whole story to everyone he knows. But if you think about it he is the reason for all those inconveniences. [:0]

Okay so I'm exagerating and getting a bit philosophical, but I think you understand what I'm trying to say. I'm all for convenience and comfort as much as anyone else, but not at the expense of safety. I'm sure that Ed an Joe and most everyone else will agree with that. If only we could teach common sense as a class in schools. Of course there would still be people who'd flunk that.

Okay, I'll climb down from my soapbox now.[:I]

Mike

Very well said. Might I add that new cars now-a-days are being sound proofed and shock proof. It's so sound proof you wouldn't even hear bombs exploding, much less someone that honks their horn when you pull out in front of them or even the train horns or crossing bells. And the cars have such great shocks now that you can go over the roughest crossing that ripples wouldn't even be made in your cup of coffee, much less that you wouldn't be aware you were going through a crossing. In the mean time some people crank their CD players up, they don't listen to the radio, then they get upset no one told them there was a traffic jam on the highway coming up or a tornado ripping it's way across the city.

Isn't ignorance just bliss?

Actually, the conditions I just described above only occur in commercials. That sound proof car isn't fool proof and those shock proof shocks wear out in 6 months.

Did anybody see that commercial where two trains stop and wait at the crossing for hours until this one certain SUV comes by? It may be funny, but I know of some people out there that take that seriously and think that trains must wait on THEM, not the other way around.

[dknelson]

The legal term for this is "coming to the nuisance." That is, under common law a person's lawsuit would be dismissed if the nuisance existed and they arrived afterwards. They could sue (not win, necessarily, but sue) if they were there first. Almost as amazing as the subidivisions being built near railroad tracks are the ones being built right at the edge of freeways. And that explains why you see more and more signs prohibiting trucks from using their "Jake brakes" even though that saves energy.
Dave Nelson

[JoeKoh]

Mookie go east through Iowa Illinois Indiana then you will be in ohio.
stay safe
Joe

[Mookie]

I would trade all the cars with loud stereos that vibrate windows and all the motorcycles that think they are on the desert for a motocross that we have on our street for the sound of a train at any hour! Signals, lights whatever. We also have helicopters and that bothers me a little, but only when they fly directly overhead (5 blocks from hospital). But give me a train - even late Amtrak - anytime! Beautiful music!

Mookie

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sask_Tinplater

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I'm trying to find a house, duplex that is right next to the tracks! Something that is in rentable shape! So don't have much sympathy for the "winers". I would be the real snowbird sitting in the yard this winter!

Mookie

I too would love to live in a house that's right next to the tracks! I can hear trains from my bedroom at night and I find the sounds of the trains going by quite relaxing and if anything they help me fall asleep faster. I actually saw one of those relaxation tapes somewhere that was of steam locomotive sounds. My advice to these people, if you don't like hearing the trains, buy a house somewhere else!

there is a house in Holgate Ohio youd really like![:)]
stay safe
Joe

Having trouble finding Wyoming - now Ohio?

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

Amen, brothers... I fly, too -- and there are some airports where the dimwits (who've ALWAYS moved in after the airport did!) have actually forced the FAA to mandate traffic patterns in the air which are just plain unsafe, like low-altitude turns and power reductions (try Boston/Logan International and New York'/JFK, for examples). Scary stuff[:(].

But the ones who really blow me away are the ones who manage to get an ordinance passed forbidding whistle signals in the community (yes, there are some) and then rise up in (un)righteous wrath when someone gets nailed by a passing train which they didn't hear...[xx(]

Funny world, isn't it?

Deep down behind the Orange Curtian in Beautiful Newport Beach where all the rich and priviledged little orangefaced m**********rs live, they pushed thru noise and power reduction limits on airliners flying out of John Wayne Airport and over there locked and gated and patroled little happy dale. Now when a jet leaves it has to go full throttle and pull up at the steepest possible angle when taking off, then immediatly throttle down while still maintaining the steep attack angle so they dont disturb the orangefaces m***********rs and there cocktail parties by actually flying low enough (or safe enough) to distrurb there suburban bliss. Experts have said its only a matter of time before one jets climbs to steep and too slow, that it will stall out and fall backwards onto the happy little locked and gated communities and incinerating all those happy dale homes.

[techguy57]

See and thats what really irks me![:(!] "Lets give up safety for convenience! I don't like hearing the train's horn so lets get rid of it." And you know the moment is going to come along when somebody is going to be driving at night talking on their cell phone or watching their DVD player they just had mounted in the front of the car, or maybe even just dog-tired from having to work a double shift and they don't see the train and can't hear it because they aren't paying attention and the hogger can't sound it loud because of some stupid noise restriction ordinance and someone, if not everyone ends up injured, or worse yet someone loses their life, because the guy living in the house 1/2 a mile away finds the train's horn too loud! [xx(] (wow, hopefully no Engli***eachers reading this, that was a nasty run-on sentence!) Then there are lawsuits, probably citing the railroads negligence, all because a couple of people couldn't go to the Walgreens or CVS or Osco and get a box of Nytol to help them go asleep![:(!]

The real problem to these people who are complaining seems to be the matter of convenience. Its inconvenient for them to hear the train horns, the crossing gate bells, the hum of the diesels (all the stuff most of us here get excited about). Its inconvenient for them to get stopped by the train on their way to work, even though its probably delivering the lumber to build his deck.
Now take that same guy, and send him auto shopping for his new SUV. Imagine if there were delays in the freight service that brings parts to the factory that makes the SUV he wants to buy because the trains have to run at reduced speeds because of noise ordinances and related safety precautions. These small delays add up to a larger production delay meaning that his SUV is back ordered for 6 months. He can't drive home his new car and he's mad as hell and he's not gonna take it any more. He'll scream about the car company, and the freight train, and probably tell the whole story to everyone he knows. But if you think about it he is the reason for all those inconveniences. [:0]

Okay so I'm exagerating and getting a bit philosophical, but I think you understand what I'm trying to say. I'm all for convenience and comfort as much as anyone else, but not at the expense of safety. I'm sure that Ed an Joe and most everyone else will agree with that. If only we could teach common sense as a class in schools. Of course there would still be people who'd flunk that.

Okay, I'll climb down from my soapbox now.[:I]

Mike

[Modelcar]

...I'll add another location that people are trying to eliminate Train Horns as they pass through our city...Location: Muncie, In. Two routes pass through and one crosses the other. CSX, ex. Conrail double track east - west line and north - south NS pass right in our city and for several years now the squawking continues to get louder re: make an ordinance to restrict the railroads from blowing their horns at crossings as they pass through and it really sounds like they eventually will get someting done to do just that. Traffic density is rather brisk on both of the lines...especially the CSX line.

[Mookie]

I am all for Operation Livesaver - but to widen the view - people aren't just stupid around trains. We get them to be more responsible around trains and they will still get killed while driving and talking on their cell phones. You can only protect people to a certain point - after that it is called looking out for # 1! We need to go back to accountability!

Mookie

[ironhorseman]

Let's see, suitable emoticons for this topic would be [:(!][xx(][V][:(] and possibly [}:)]
Here's what I wrote to the TV station:

"I just want to say it's appalling to see a reporter stand between the rails like that. It's illegal, it's dangerous, and it gives the wrong impression that it's okay to stand on the tracks. This reporter has completely ignored everything Operation Lifesaver has been trying to teach over the last 30+ years. I hope this reporter considers his actions on any future reports about railroads and I hope the station does likewise.

"As for the residents: the same story is played out in neighborhoods all across America, it's nothing new. In Parsons, Kansas where I have relatives the Union Pacific has installed horns at every grade level street crossing in town to keep the train horn noise to a minimum. Maybe the city of Richmond should look into this. Harry S Truman once said "If you think you've found something new, you don't know your history." But to think that this issue is something new or unique to the area or to think that anyone can get the railroad to stop blowing their horns is laughable. "

I also sent them the link to Operation Lifesaver (www.oli.org)

Here's something else I'm gonna say that may make a lot of people mad so read carefully: I believe Operation Lifesaver's message is not getting out to the right people. I'm not saying they're bad, they're not trying, or anything like that. I know it's hard but most people are either ignorant or oblivious to rail safety. We've been over this topic of rail safety time and time again on these forums and everyone here knows better. But what about the "masses," those non-train enthusiasts? The ones that doen't read the forums, the magazines, that don't have a railnut for a friend?

Most people see a train and don't think anything of it than a mere inconvinence. To them it's just part ot the landscape. And some people still walk on tracks and try to race to the trains. Do you think those people have been to the Operation Lifesaver website? Do you think they even know about Operation Lifesave?

I realize Operation Lifesaver is a non-profit organization and they can't throw they're money around on advertising all the time, but how is this message going to get out? Besides at railfairs and trainshows Operation Lifesaver tries to reach the schools but I never saw they in the junior high or senior high levels (eg, just about the time kids learn how to drive). Also, you never see this stuff at the universities. They have bulletin boards, kiosks, information desks, and brochure racks but none of that stuff gets filled with rail safety literature.

I suggested to Operation Lifesaver that maybe they try to get their logo on popular websites and news websites. Maybe they can try to get some of those spaces for free.

We could also do our part by putting the Lifesaver link on all our emails and bumper stickers on our cars. This is a suttle way to spread the message with out ramming down people's throats. But how is that going to stop those idiots we still see trespassing and taking risks? We end up right back where we started. Regardless, as long as they (the rail trespassers) keep doing it I'll keep hammering away at the message until everybody complies.

Oh, and if you see someone trespassing don't just stand by while they do it, get over there and tell them what they're doing is wrong and the consequences. You don't have to insult them or humiliate them, they'll be just as embarassed once they noticed they've been caught. Maybe this way we'll prevent future incidents. If you can save at least one person's life it's worth it.

[Anonymous]

For those of you who have seen the matrix reloaded, know that i'm about to Quote Agent smith

QUOTE:
Agent Smith, Matrix Reloaded
"I'm Sorry, this is a Dead end."

Thats exacly what their inteligence gets thme, Dewad ends. I feel we could debate the Structural integrity of that womans skull all night long, only to find it was made of match sticks, news paper and peanut shells. But their argument is only going to lead them to a dead end. It really will.. Are they going to move? NO! are they going to complain.. uhh how does thgat song go.. somehting like... "HELL YEAH!".. I often find the people who do least to contribute to the well beaing of scociety, end up being the ones who complain the most.

Guess they sit on their butt all day looking for somehting to complain about.. The train passes by my house (500 yards away) at 55 MPh, honks every morning at the crossing at 6:57.. i call it "The most reliable alarm, ever" I couldn't care less, ACTUALLY i find train horns soothing, like the sounds of the ocean or waterfalls, yet waterfalls make me have to pee alot.. enough about that.. I say they should shut there mouth.

Another vote for Ed.

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sask_Tinplater

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I'm trying to find a house, duplex that is right next to the tracks! Something that is in rentable shape! So don't have much sympathy for the "winers". I would be the real snowbird sitting in the yard this winter!

Mookie

I too would love to live in a house that's right next to the tracks! I can hear trains from my bedroom at night and I find the sounds of the trains going by quite relaxing and if anything they help me fall asleep faster. I actually saw one of those relaxation tapes somewhere that was of steam locomotive sounds. My advice to these people, if you don't like hearing the trains, buy a house somewhere else!

there is a house in Holgate Ohio youd really like![:)]
stay safe
Joe

[jchnhtfd]

Amen, brothers... I fly, too -- and there are some airports where the dimwits (who've ALWAYS moved in after the airport did!) have actually forced the FAA to mandate traffic patterns in the air which are just plain unsafe, like low-altitude turns and power reductions (try Boston/Logan International and New York'/JFK, for examples). Scary stuff[:(].

But the ones who really blow me away are the ones who manage to get an ordinance passed forbidding whistle signals in the community (yes, there are some) and then rise up in (un)righteous wrath when someone gets nailed by a passing train which they didn't hear...[xx(]

Funny world, isn't it?

[dekemd]

We have the same problems out here in North Carolina. The most recent was a few years ago when people started complaining about the local gun range. When the range was built in 1954 there was only one house within a mile of the place. Now there are about 75 they don't like hearing gunshots on the weekends. Go figure.

Several years ago CSX had a derailment (big pileup) on the old Clinchfield line that ran within a mile or two of a boy scout camp. Due to hazardous materials that were spilled the camp and nearby residents were evacuated. People were outraged that the railroad was hauling hazardous materials near a boy scout camp. They wanted the county commisioners to pass an ordinance banning the railroad from hauling hazmat on that line. Some even contacted congress about it. Nevermind the fact that the railroad had been there a good 50 years before the boyscout camp.

"I see stupid people. They're everywhere!"

Derrick

[Anonymous]

Alright [:)] Another Vote for ED [:)]

[techguy57]

Next they will complain about the sirens on the fire engines going to put out the wildfires that are threatening to destroy their homes![xx(] I lived next to a very busy city firehouse for a while and now I live very near to the Metra/UP lines and another firehouse. You get used to it. I'd much rather have those services there than not. I never felt safer than living next to the firehouse. I agree with everyone else too, its kinda hard to miss the tracks!

If I worked for the RR I'd fine that reporter too. If he's stupid enough to stand in the middle of the track and film it for all to see then he deserves it. To paraphrase I think Don Henley said it best:

Can we film the operation?
Is the head dead yet?
You know the boys in the news room have a running bet.
We all know that crap is king,
Give us dirty laundry.

Thats my two cents! Be sure to tip your waitress. Try the veal. Ed for President.

Mike

PS DAN- that <horn> bit was funny stuff[:D]

[Anonymous]

Sometimes I find the ignorance/stupidity of some people quite baffling.

[mudchicken]

Erik:

Another one for your files.....In Denver, you have the "Flour Mill Lofts" in the downtown Denver renaissance area not far from Union Station. This building was a massive 8 story Flour Mill and concrete silo complex abandoned in the 1960's. A developer comes in and converts the eyesore into 1/2 half million dollar condos/lofts. The building had a rail served dock and is located opposite the south main track wye switch at 20th Street at the beginning of the Denver-Pueblo joint line. (Any train between Denver & Pueblo, UP or BNSF has to go by this building, certainly within 50 feet of it...it's the only way left to go North-South through town, the other lines have been chopped up by public works projects and/or abandoned 30-50 years ago.( The area around the Flour Mill could be likened to the thin part of the hour glass in a railroad sense.)

There is now a homeowners association from building condo owners at Flour Mill Lofts, DEMANDING that the railroad leave the area because of the noise and vibration!
The BNSF Division Engineer gets phone calls every two weeks, like clockwork, from the chief whiners in the building. Poor guy has to sit there and take the unjustified verbal abuse and be civil about it every two weeks .

On the flip side, there is an OLI Coordinator and a retired railroader living in the building that love the ambiance of the place......Go figure!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I'm trying to find a house, duplex that is right next to the tracks! Something that is in rentable shape! So don't have much sympathy for the "winers". I would be the real snowbird sitting in the yard this winter!

Mookie

I too would love to live in a house that's right next to the tracks! I can hear trains from my bedroom at night and I find the sounds of the trains going by quite relaxing and if anything they help me fall asleep faster. I actually saw one of those relaxation tapes somewhere that was of steam locomotive sounds. My advice to these people, if you don't like hearing the trains, buy a house somewhere else!

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by brilondon

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

I actually wouldn't mind moving back to the old neighborhood but mamma wants to live in the country.you would think people would check the area out ask questions from others before they bought a house there.basic common sense(there it is again!)folks.
stay safe
Joe

The thing is that common sense is really not that common at all.

Amen my friend[:)]!
stay safe
Joe

[brilondon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

I actually wouldn't mind moving back to the old neighborhood but mamma wants to live in the country.you would think people would check the area out ask questions from others before they bought a house there.basic common sense(there it is again!)folks.
stay safe
Joe

The thing is that common sense is really not that common at all.

[brilondon]

Do the people who but the houses in the vacinity of the railroad actually think that just because they moved there that the trains are now going to be quieter. "Mr. Smith just moved in a mile away from our railroad so we had better decide where and when we will run our trains just so that Mr. Smith can live in peace in a house he bought close to the railroad." This is the stupidest thing that I have ever come across next to the new homes that were built next to Pearson International airport in Toronto. There I got that off amy chest. I read some where in that article that the railroad is one mile away. I live less than a mile from the CP mainline in London and I have difficulty hearing the trains. It really sould not be a concern to the person who the article is about.

[Anonymous]

Let me add something to my post-[:)]
The railroad has been around here since 1914
The neighborhood - since 1950.

[Anonymous]

Kinda reminds me of the time in Fond du Lac, WI(where I live), when a councilman suggested, that, instead of building an overpass on a busy highway, maybe the railroad(WC) should build a by-pass around the city.[?]

The railroad's only been here since about 1900.....[xx(]

[Anonymous]

A quote from the article:

QUOTE: The railroads say the horn blowing is required by federal law. Five horn blows for every crossing. But the neighbors tell us it's more like 20 now.

I always thought it was four blows - long long short long. Am I missing something here. This summer aircraft traffic was redirected over the ctiy because the main runway was closed. People statred complaining. It a new new neighborhood, an the airport has been there sine WW II. They can never say they didn't know the airport was there. BTW, I live a mile away from the crossing, and trains don't bother me at all. There are some houses right next to the crossing. I wouldn't wanna be there at 4 25 am when a gravel train passes by.

[dharmon]

I would like to remind you that this is the great state of CA we're talking about. It was not hese poor vicitmized families fault. This was a pre-existing danger that the local government and corporate interests knew about, yet failed to warn these poor hard working people of and allowed them to move to this area. I believe that we probably are looking at a future blue ribbon inquiry here, and alot of public funds are going to be needed to help these folks with the trauma they have suffered. Any self respecting local councilman had better get on the band wagon now!

Yeah right........this is the same state that feeds, not just a little, but hugely off of the tit of the Uncle Sams armed forces. Daily, the services bend over backwards to meet or exceed whatever state generated hairbrained idea is up next. You may not know this Mr. and Mrs American taxpayer.... but the young Marines you sent to kick in Mr. Saddams door, CAN'T EVEN DIG A FOXHOLE at Camp Pendleton. Because some rocket scientist had declared that there are something like 34 endangered grasses, bugs and birds on the base, they have to assault the same, endangered species cleared beach over and over again and drive on pre determined attack roads......to fox holes which are marked by yellow "do not cross tape". So picture this, some young kid setting up an ambu***o get the bad guys may never have had the opportunity to train like he should fight. Instead as the Iraqi tank rolls by, our troops are sitting there behind this tape going "you can't see me". To build, rebuild or move a structure on any of our installations, however minor, requires an environmental impact study at great cost, becasue they almost always are challenged in court.

There was an absolutely great editorial reply written by a Marine pilot...who was disciplined foor writing it a few years ago. If I find it I'll post it. But a woman from near Camp Pendelton was writing to complain about the noise made by the training exercises.. His reply was something to the effect of ..you are right Mrs. Jones, we at the Marines have specifically targeted your house to annoy as much as possible. We have daily meetings of the annoy Mrs. Jones task force. Through dedicated surveillance of you and your house, we have determined the best time of day to fly our jets low and drop bombs so they cause you personally the greastest annoyance......

I'm done. Ed I'm ready to come home.

[JoeKoh]

I actually wouldn't mind moving back to the old neighborhood but mamma wants to live in the country.you would think people would check the area out ask questions from others before they bought a house there.basic common sense(there it is again!)folks.
stay safe
Joe

[heavyd]

We all know but most people out there are totally oblivious to trains and the railroad! They have no clue at all what has to happen for a railroad to work! It is because of that ignorance that they choose to live so close to tracks. I say don't worry about, not our problem!

[edblysard]

Of course they knew the tracks were there, and so did the realtors.
Funny, the horn you hear at the end of the clip isnt anywhere as loud as the BNSF main out of Houston to Dallas, which is about 300 to 500 yards from my house.
I have lived here on and off for 40 plus years, and never be awakend by the trains, at least one per hour, which blow for four grade crossings in less than a mile.
They knew the tracks were there before they purchased, the reporter knew they knew, just sorta forgot to include that in his somewhat baised report.
Solution?
If they dont like the sound of trains, then move!
Ed