Sometimes it is not a matter of the car stalling on the tracks, but a way of getting the insurance company to pay for the car. Usually after a car/train collision there is not much left of the car and there is no way to find out if the car actually stalled. As a road foreman of engines, I have investigated many crossing accidents. A few of those turned out to be insurance scams because the person that owned the car could not afford the payments or they wanted a new car. This information I found out thru the claim agent that was assigned to the case.
Bob
Jock Ellis Cumming, GA US of A Georgia Association of Railroad Passengers
TomDiehl wrote: Probably not as common as you'd think. No scientific study needed, just simple logic. Most railroad crossing are rather rough, and many drivers slow to almost a crawl to go across them. This is the most likely time for a car to stall out, especially if it's in need of a tune up.
Probably not as common as you'd think.
No scientific study needed, just simple logic. Most railroad crossing are rather rough, and many drivers slow to almost a crawl to go across them. This is the most likely time for a car to stall out, especially if it's in need of a tune up.
This is why I keep my 1995 Ford F-350 in the best shape I can and also why I put in a new off-road suspension, so I dont have to crawl over railroad crossings.
Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.
Teditor wrote: There seems to be some inference that locomotive engineers are at fault by hanging on the horn, if we think about normal reactions to situations, don't you think the engineeers emotions also go into high gear, just because your'e in a 200 ton locomotive doesn't always mean you are automatically the winner, survival instincts take over in the cab of the loco too.But in their case, it means riding out the situation, jumping or swerving is not usually an option and the natural reaction is to throw the brakes into emergency and hang on the horn, from there on, momentum and fate take over. (been there, done that!).
There seems to be some inference that locomotive engineers are at fault by hanging on the horn, if we think about normal reactions to situations, don't you think the engineeers emotions also go into high gear, just because your'e in a 200 ton locomotive doesn't always mean you are automatically the winner, survival instincts take over in the cab of the loco too.
But in their case, it means riding out the situation, jumping or swerving is not usually an option and the natural reaction is to throw the brakes into emergency and hang on the horn, from there on, momentum and fate take over. (been there, done that!).
Out here on the SRT, many engineers and firemen run into the engine room behind the cab and luck it out when they see tractor-trailers rig or ten-wheel trucks who disregard crossing protections and many has lost their lives in the line of duty in grade crossing accident.
FYI, All of SRT's locos tip the scale at around 80-90 metric tons so when they tangle with loaded tractor-trailers or ten wheel trucks(around 30-40 metric tons). The result is ugly, the loco is derailed and banged up sometimes beyond repair
We have same problem in UK and here in France. In both countries, tracks are a bit higher than the surrounding land and road goes up each side to cross. Any hesitance adds to the possibility of a stall.
Sadly, in UK, at least one man decided to commit suicide by parking deliberatly in front of a high speed train. Worse, there were points just beyond, so, instead of just killing the man, the train derailed and train driver and many others were killed and injured as well.
Hope you don't get that in US!
Eric Stuart
I haven't heard of it happening all that often here (Tulsa), but this weekend, I heard the BNSF Cherokee Sub dispatcher advising trains on the sub that they would be sitting for awhile because a car was stuck on a grade crossing in Tulsa.
Nevermind that train operations have been a nightmare since Friday when the ice storm(s) started. This car had slid off the road onto the track. The ice made it difficult for the tow truck(s) to move it. After several hours, they finally got it moved.
Then the switchs were frozen..........what a mess it is around here. Not much moving.
Mike in Tulsa
BNSF Cherokee Sub
Occasionally - I would class it as an accident, but generally it is through some act of stupidity or senselesness, the train driver generally has no say in the matter.
Imagine if a train stalls on the crossing and the tables are turned, do you think a motorist will keep charging on blowing his horn, no - they have the decisive choice in both situations.
Teditor
BNSFNUT wrote:Even A newer car will sometime stall in a panic stop. I had my van stall when a kid ran into my path. I guess the automaitic tranmistion just could not release in time. This was to happen to someone who panic when they saw the train and could not think to put the car into park long enough to let it start.
Even A newer car will sometime stall in a panic stop. I had my van stall when a kid ran into my path. I guess the automaitic tranmistion just could not release in time. This was to happen to someone who panic when they saw the train and could not think to put the car into park long enough to let it start.
I think that there is another likely reason for cars "stalling" on the tracks so frequently. I feel like there is a growing trend to not want to take responsability for our own actions. I've seen this in both of my careers- teaching ("I only get bad grades in your class because its so difficult") and IT ("I feel I got a bad review even though I made some major mistakes which had to be fixed up by others").
Think of how the "poor schmo" whose car has just been hit feels- not even your normal case of you did something stupid/wrong, but a BIG one, perhaps causing injuries, certainly causing inconvenience to many others. How many people do you know who are honest-enough to accept blame for such?
Just my .
You have to wonder how many of these "stalled" cars where just stuck be cause the driver drove of the pavement or just plain missed the crossing and got hung up on the rails. We had a girl fall of the edge of the crossing localy about a week ago. She went to get help geting it unstuck but the NS helped her by pushing out of the way with a train. When she got back all she need was a broom and dust pan.
There is no such thing as a bad day of railfanning. So many trains, so little time.
I wonder if it is a condition related to the brake pedal of all those senior drivers that "fails" or the accelerator pedal that "sticks" and causes the aforementioned senior driver to plow into a building or crowd. Without fail the pedal is found to be working after the accident investigation.
There was a video from I think Thailand on one of those "World's Dumbest Drivers" or something of a guy on a moped getting clocked by a commuter train. He obviously was taking a wake nap when he stopped with his front wheel on the tracks. He just looks a turns the wheel a little until he gets nailed.
I tend to believe it is more something the driver did to stall out the car, but they, like everyone else in the world it seems, wants to divert the blame to someone or something else. The accident I referenced at first was the third one in a row where the report said the car was "stalled". The one in my reference was there for a few minutes before it got hit.
zardoz wrote:2. I've often wondered if the moment the moron hits his (or her) brakes is the first realization of what they were actually doing.
2. I've often wondered if the moment the moron hits his (or her) brakes is the first realization of what they were actually doing.
Funny thing about people, a willingness to break the rules , versus their reaction to getting caught.
I'd guess that those who hit the brakes, really know better than to do what they did, they just place their common sense in suspension when they decided to risk a dumb stunt
Those who act like it's all the trains fault, probably deserve the finger
Datafever wrote:I find it hard to believe that the engineer would be thinking of "flipping the bird" at someone whose car he is about to run into if said person doesn't take notice and get that car moved pronto.
I find it hard to believe that the engineer would be thinking of "flipping the bird" at someone whose car he is about to run into if said person doesn't take notice and get that car moved pronto.
My observation pertaining to "flipping off" pertains more towards not so near "misses" that I have observed frequently at the nearby crossings.
One would agree that the engineer's going beyond the customary long-short-short-long is merited when a car throws itself into danger by driving around the gates.
Frequently I see the engineers still laying on the horn even after said idiots have cleared the crossing
So, I'd guess that boiling emotions up in the locomotive cab are at work in those instances. Trying to send a message perhaps ?
Hey, I'm not saying that I'd be above doing the very same thing, if I were the engineer, In fact I can visualize it.
You should see me when I realize the idiot in front of me is in no big hurry starting up from a stop at an innersection, because he has a cell phone growing out of one ear .
spokyone wrote: Stalling used to be a problem with cars before 1980. And perhaps cars made after that with manual transmissions. I have not seen a car stall in this little town for years. 'Course we only have 1 traffic light and it is only 2 years old.
I used to have a car that was built after 1980 and had an automatic transmission, so its still possible. Also, there are things which could cause a car to die (such as a dead alternator) where you won't be going any farther.
I remember seeing a vehicle where someone had a new car which got stuck on the tracks at a public crossing - the guy got out and called the police who called the railroad, but it was too late to get the train stopped and his new car got smashed. At least he wasn't sitting it in when it happened.
TheAntiGates wrote: 1. Having a 120 decible horn blaring at them might tend to disrupt their focus somewhat, put their brain into a "deer staring into headlights" type vaporlock. Make them forget their normal problem solving routines.2. I've seen cars running crossing gates that have actually hit their brakes while right on the track as the engineer blares down on the horn.3. I've often wondered just how much of that extra laying on the horn is rooted in a genuine concern for safety, versus being an extension of the engineer's middle finger?
1. Having a 120 decible horn blaring at them might tend to disrupt their focus somewhat, put their brain into a "deer staring into headlights" type vaporlock. Make them forget their normal problem solving routines.
2. I've seen cars running crossing gates that have actually hit their brakes while right on the track as the engineer blares down on the horn.
3. I've often wondered just how much of that extra laying on the horn is rooted in a genuine concern for safety, versus being an extension of the engineer's middle finger?
1. Exactly! That is why one should use quick, short blasts of the horn instead of one long blast. This is true for both people and deer (a nd dogs and possums and skunks and...)
3. Part of it is to try to attract attention to the situation just in case there is a donut shop nearby where a cop might be sitting and maybe see what is happening.
And since you mentioned the bird, I have had drivers go around the gates in front of my train that was so close to the crossing that I could almost count the fillings in their teeth, give me the finger as my train just missed their vehicle. Of course, those are the ones I get the license plate number and call in the near-miss report. Then the state sends the driver a nice letter informing the driver that he now has 4 points on his driver's license, and also a request to sent in $500 or appear in court.
PBenham wrote:When one panics, such as when your car decides to die on railroad tracks when a train is coming, then your values change somewhat!
Ive seen it myself so many times and am always amazed when a driver that is stuck on the tracks with a train approaching will just sit there and wait to be hit. They do not try to force themselves forward or backward, perhaps damaging their car and the one they force themselves into; no, they just sit there and let the train hit them.
And so-called professional drivers are generally no better. Another thread here has links to videos showing tractor-trailer trucks sitting in traffic on crossings until the train hits them. And that school bus in Cary, IL a few years ago that got hit by the commuter train just sat at a red light and let the train kill a bunch of students instead of just pulling through the red light into traffic.
I can only suppose that panic is the reason for such irrational behavior.
Humm this is an interesting subject. I did a report and a seminar on Train / Car Collisions at grade crossings for my high school Senior project. I didn't even think to do any research with respect to stalled cars on the tracks. That might have been interesting.
I will say that I am a bit surprised that no one "yet" didn't mention the fact that some people don't even bother to slow down for grade crossings weather a train is comming or not. This is espeacially evident down here in Louisville, KY. People don't care they will fly over a grade crossing at 50 plus mph; not all of these crossings are in the best of conditions either. Some of these crossings don't even have gates and some of them are in Quite Zones. Some people just don't care, everyone's in a rush these days.
Datafever wrote: TheAntiGates wrote: I've often wondered just how much of that extra laying on the horn is rooted in a genuine concern for safety, versus being an extension of the engineer's middle finger? I find it hard to believe that the engineer would be thinking of "flipping the bird" at someone whose car he is about to run into if said person doesn't take notice and get that car moved pronto. I find that the salute is more frequently used by those who are fairly certain that the potential danger is past.
TheAntiGates wrote: I've often wondered just how much of that extra laying on the horn is rooted in a genuine concern for safety, versus being an extension of the engineer's middle finger?
I've often wondered just how much of that extra laying on the horn is rooted in a genuine concern for safety, versus being an extension of the engineer's middle finger?
I find it hard to believe that the engineer would be thinking of "flipping the bird" at someone whose car he is about to run into if said person doesn't take notice and get that car moved pronto. I find that the salute is more frequently used by those who are fairly certain that the potential danger is past.
well in all honesty until you ride the cab a few times and see first hand the absolute stupidity shown by 99% of drivers when it comes to gradecrossing safety you just have take it with a grain of salt......yes granted most "bird flipping" is after the fact....when its happening the people in the cab....just before the hit....are usually cursing a stream along with slient prayers
TheAntiGates wrote:I've often wondered just how much of that extra laying on the horn is rooted in a genuine concern for safety, versus being an extension of the engineer's middle finger?
the middle finger extension applies to the conductor in the cab as well.......he is the one that has to walk back after the slight bump.....short period of grinding noise.......and a cloud of glass and dust...and of course the application of emergency.........
I drive a car with a standard transmission, and every time I encounter a crossing if in traffic I make sure there is a car's length on the other side of the crossing (everyone should do this, though I rarely see it done by other drivers) I feel it gives me enough room to make it over the tracks without having to stop, especially since I started driving standard a month ago and sometimes stall (less than I did a month ago, of course...
Dave
Having a 120 decible horn blaring at them might tend to disrupt their focus somewhat, put their brain into a "deer staring into headlights" type vaporlock. Make them forget their normal problem solving routines.
I've seen cars running crossing gates that have actually hit their brakes while right on the track as the engineer blares down on the horn.
Over the next few months, please observe how many stalled cars you see at traffic lights. In most cities it will be more than a few. Any time a car stops, there is a higher probabilty that it will stall than if it is moving. We here about stalled cars at RR crossing because they often create "newsworthy" events. Rarely do stalled cars at traffic lights make the news.
dd
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