Was talking to a long time truck driver yesterday.

[tree68]

Ya know, forty years ago you could have replaced "China" with "Japan" in every one of these posts.

While it is certainly a problem that our jobs are going off-shore, let's consider why it costs so much less to produce a similar item overseas. A large part is the spiral that is the mix of business (ie, making a profit) and labor. Simply put, the workers want more money, to improve their standard of living, etc. (*) So industry raises wages. To offset the increase in their costs due to the increase in wages, they increase the price of the products they sell. The workers now need more money to pay for those products, so they ask for higher wages. Return to (*).

Bottom line, we're pricing ourselves out of the world market. As soon as another country can sell more cheaply any commodity we now export, we'll lose that market, too.

Of course, it's a lot more complicated than that, but you need to go to a political forum to really get into that in depth...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ney1815

Its gonna get worst..and I will tell you why...
If you go to any of the stock forums, for example Yahoo, Motley Fool etc. and bring up this same subject, you get flamed.
Why?
Because, the majority of American Investors who have money, i.e. Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, executives, etc etc etc...and even some middle class folks who invest, but are employed in sectors not being outsourced, only care about their stock prices.
We Americans are greedy SOB's and we dont care who loses their job, as long as our stock portfolios and mutual funds go up.
If we Americans did care we souldl have banded together the way citizens of other countries band together to BOYCOTT our products.
I for one, refuse to buy or do business with the following corporations who are sending our jobs to India.
1) HP
2) Oracle
3) EDS
4) GM
5) Crysler
6) Shell
7) Associated Press

In fact, I am going to start checking labels...NO MORE CHINA, INDIA, MALAYSIA.
U.S. goods only!

WHile its all well and good to say you won't buy non-American products, I'm thinking you may have trouble buying much. Almost everything these days is global to some extent. Frankly, as much as I want to have industries to serve, the job can be done cheaper and many times better elsewhere or partially here and partially elsewhere. Just try to find a car where all parts and assembly are done in the US. It won't happen. Last time I had such a car I had to sue to get it fixed. Chinese goods will increase in quality just as Japanese goods did in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Get ready for Chinese cars. They are coming.

What about American jobs? Well, we here in the US need to figure out how to get our governments (State, Federal and local) working together to keep and encourage industry. Right now, there are many places in our country where it is impossible to conduct a business requiring more than 15 employees. One BIG reason for this are costs such as Worker's Compensation laws and rules, insurance costs and various unfriendly taxes. A lot of places have the NIMBY attitude on what they want in their community and structure themselves to be as unfriendly as possible to anything with a smokestack. Our infrastructure needs help, especially rail, but highways and air too. Those interstates are well beyond their as built 25-30 year life and the bridges show it. Other countries have coordinated efforts to keep industry modern through government finance and tax incentives as well as favorable tariffs for import and export. We need to get with the program or get left in the cold.

Do I want my job, sure, but without all of this pulling together, complaining about the cost of tea in China won't make any difference. Boycotts won't either.

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jsanchez

As far as stocks go, the investment community should be worried!! All those factory, high tech, accounting, and engineering workers loosing thier jobs will not be able to buy stocks or invest in 401k's, if the current jobs erosion continues you are going to see the market eventually collapse or shrink tremendously, no one wants to hear this, but you don't have to be Miss Cleo to see this coming. I blame both Democrats and Republicans for NAFTA and GATT, the sooner people realize we the middle and working classs have no representation the quicker we can end the decline of the USA and the middle class. Bush is doing his best to expand free trade to more countries. Look at how Democrats and Republicans are fighting limiting welfare to illegal immigrants in Arizona , even though 70 % of the population supports stoping handouts to folks who have no business being here in the first place!!!. If people spent half the amount of time they spend watching reality TV or Sports, watching the Democrats and Republicans they would be shocked to see what they are doing to this country from the federal level on down.

The problem is much more deep rooted than that, it goes all the way to the core of america's economy, and the "wall street" business model. Think for a moment about those lazy, good for nothing, " contribute nothing to the productive work flow" stockholders sitting at the top of the economy doing jack besides clipping dividend cupons? At least with the robberbarons of old (Jay Gould, etc) they got up each day and did a days work towards their commited endeavor.

Now what you have is lazy people sitting on their *** expecting a paycheck for doing nothing.

Seems like this was a key criticism we had for communism, and lo and behold we have become the very beast we once condemned so profoundly

[Anonymous]

I'm sick to death of 'free trade'. This means that any nation can dump it's stuff in the U.S. without restriction but put restrictions on what the U.S. can export to them. I say make it fair trade, you put a restriction on what I'm trying to sell you then I will counter it with a restriction on what you are trying to sell me. Let's start playing tit-for-tat.

[jsanchez]

As far as stocks go, the investment community should be worried!! All those factory, high tech, accounting, and engineering workers loosing thier jobs will not be able to buy stocks or invest in 401k's, if the current jobs erosion continues you are going to see the market eventually collapse or shrink tremendously, no one wants to hear this, but you don't have to be Miss Cleo to see this coming. I blame both Democrats and Republicans for NAFTA and GATT, the sooner people realize we the middle and working classs have no representation the quicker we can end the decline of the USA and the middle class. Bush is doing his best to expand free trade to more countries. Look at how Democrats and Republicans are fighting limiting welfare to illegal immigrants in Arizona , even though 70 % of the population supports stoping handouts to folks who have no business being here in the first place!!!. If people spent half the amount of time they spend watching reality TV or Sports, watching the Democrats and Republicans they would be shocked to see what they are doing to this country from the federal level on down.

[Anonymous]

Its gonna get worst..and I will tell you why...
If you go to any of the stock forums, for example Yahoo, Motley Fool etc. and bring up this same subject, you get flamed.
Why?
Because, the majority of American Investors who have money, i.e. Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, executives, etc etc etc...and even some middle class folks who invest, but are employed in sectors not being outsourced, only care about their stock prices.
We Americans are greedy SOB's and we dont care who loses their job, as long as our stock portfolios and mutual funds go up.
If we Americans did care we souldl have banded together the way citizens of other countries band together to BOYCOTT our products.
I for one, refuse to buy or do business with the following corporations who are sending our jobs to India.
1) HP
2) Oracle
3) EDS
4) GM
5) Crysler
6) Shell
7) Associated Press

In fact, I am going to start checking labels...NO MORE CHINA, INDIA, MALAYSIA.
U.S. goods only!

[Modelcar]

....I agree about all the Chinese crap, etc....That I don't like any better than the rest of the posters above...One little item...and I won't slander the party's name..I believe Nafta proposal was started under the first George.

[wabash1]

1ST ) Auto haulers dont compete with railroads never have never will. cars hit the rail when they haft to go over a certain milage. the manufacture rather have the handlng of the cars and trucks to a minimum so they will put a car on the rail that has to go from mexico to new york the car never gets unloaded until it gets to the mixing center, which is in ohio. then it gets onthe truck to the dealer. There is other things that move by truck that will never see the rail. the railroads are set up for bulk commodities. as far as intermodel goes the shipper will take his stuff to the rail that has no set time getting there with a low rate. cause they bought it the product at a cheap rate. another thing you need to look at is that truckers are not stupid what most say will be true. the things they seem to like to complain about is how long they was alowed to drive. and its not totally that they want to run hard til they are tired then sleep but the company is in hurry up and go mode. and this is against what they want., something that wont move by rail is house hold goods . a families belongings. when was the last time you saw a moving van on rails.

As far as george goes he was not behind this as much as you want to believe it was the democraps that was behind this. go back and look at the vote for nafta. everyone wants to blame the president when in reality it was their elected officials congress and senote. . but sinse you feel this way invite a mexican to supper maybe he will think of your generosity when you move closer to mexico to work and help you relocate and show you around.

[JoeKoh]

I agree.A former neighbor was replacing a faucet outside of his house.He worked for GM. He said"these dang american products only lasting 40 years." Our gov't just can't see that.and the beat goes on.
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

I would rather pay more money now for something that works and will continue to work than buy a Chinese (that really doesn't deserve to be a capital C) piece of crap that won't last 5 minutes. Then you have to buy another piece of crap to make up for the first piece of crap that doesn't work then you have to buy a third piece of crap to make up for the second piece of Chinese crap that doesn't work and so on and so forth. Give ma an American made item that will last. That I can buy now that will last and not have to buy another one tomorrow.

Yes you are right about low wages overseas. But what do those low wages get us--nothing but poorly made crap. Their workers don't care about quality just meeting their quotas.

Stop buying this poorly made crap and they will have to stop importing it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

I am tired of buying junk - - J U N K - - that isn't worth a crap. And where is the crap made? China and Mexico. It is getting to the point you can't find stuff "Made In America" anymore. I will and have paid double for something I find made in America over the crap from China. I have come to the point if it says Made in China, I don't buy it. Any American company that takes its jobs oversea can forget getting MY business. I will find something else to buy. And I believe the American Government ought to buy American over any other country. If we can't get an American made item then Great Britian and Canada should be our next in line. These two countries are our best allies and if we can't get it here then get it from them - - NOT CHINA AND NOT MEXICO. I recently wanted a wind up alarm clock. I went looking for one at a national retailer. EVERY CLOCK THERE WAS MADE IN CHINA. Against my better thought I went ahead and got one. I have had 4 yes 4 other travel alarm clocks all made in China and not one of them worked. I have been given 2 yes 2 battery powered railroad clocks both made in China--neither one of them works. So naturally I didn't want another Chinese piece of crap that wouldn't work. I tried to look them all over and find one that didn't have anything obviously wrong with it. When I got home part of a lever was broken off inside the clock. Another piece of Chinese crap. If that wasn't bad enought it loses about 15 minutes a day in time and that with winding it twice a day. CRAP CRAP CRAP. NO MORE CHINESE CRAP.

A friend of mine has a Dodge truck. The radiator is made in Mexico. It will not go but 6 months before it needs a new radiator. This happens to him every six months--it has to get a new radiator.

We as Americans must stop buying this crap. Why spend money on something that doesn't work even when new. If everyone stops buying this crap then they won't import it any more.

MAKE IT HERE, NOT OVERSEAS.

If any American company takes its jobs overseas -- DON'T BUY THEIR PRODUCTS.

Canada is a good friend of the United States. I have nothing against Canada at all. I don't have any problems with anything made in Canada. I certainly don't have any problems with people from Canada. I receive and mail emails almost daily to friends in Canada.

STOP BUYING CHINESE CRAP. STOP IMPORTING CHINESE CRAP

Jim i agree- chinese made products are crap. Almost everything we wear or use is either made in China or some other Asian countries. Why? Because it is much cheaper to make a shoe there and then ship it to the U.S. Because people there are poor (most of them) and they care very little of they get paid what they are supposed to be paid.
Thats the story. And i bet you every other well developed country has its products made in the 3rd world countries (is that the right name?) so you don't have to pay a lot of money for your alarm clock.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

that may very well be true, but you can't really place a lt f stock in the idle chatter of truckers.

Last July I was standing outside a DMV office listening to two truckers carrying on and on about how long they'd been driving, how well conected they were in''the industry", how regulations were starting to cause them grief, even mentioned a few topics I recaled reading about in Don Phillips' column.

I mentioned that the railroads were probably happy about the items they were most upset with, perhaps even behind them, and registered blank looks. "Railroads?" was their reply." We don't compete with Railroads" Ofcourse they were employees of a contract carrier, not independants, but still show that ya gotta take the mutterings of truckers with a grain of salt...............

Let me add to the above, that this was in the town where the world headquarters of NS's Triple crown service is located, the local highways are flooded with Triple Crown trailers............ Truckers ain't the brightest scholars

[Anonymous]

I am tired of buying junk - - J U N K - - that isn't worth a crap. And where is the crap made? China and Mexico. It is getting to the point you can't find stuff "Made In America" anymore. I will and have paid double for something I find made in America over the crap from China. I have come to the point if it says Made in China, I don't buy it. Any American company that takes its jobs oversea can forget getting MY business. I will find something else to buy. And I believe the American Government ought to buy American over any other country. If we can't get an American made item then Great Britian and Canada should be our next in line. These two countries are our best allies and if we can't get it here then get it from them - - NOT CHINA AND NOT MEXICO. I recently wanted a wind up alarm clock. I went looking for one at a national retailer. EVERY CLOCK THERE WAS MADE IN CHINA. Against my better thought I went ahead and got one. I have had 4 yes 4 other travel alarm clocks all made in China and not one of them worked. I have been given 2 yes 2 battery powered railroad clocks both made in China--neither one of them works. So naturally I didn't want another Chinese piece of crap that wouldn't work. I tried to look them all over and find one that didn't have anything obviously wrong with it. When I got home part of a lever was broken off inside the clock. Another piece of Chinese crap. If that wasn't bad enought it loses about 15 minutes a day in time and that with winding it twice a day. CRAP CRAP CRAP. NO MORE CHINESE CRAP.

A friend of mine has a Dodge truck. The radiator is made in Mexico. It will not go but 6 months before it needs a new radiator. This happens to him every six months--it has to get a new radiator.

We as Americans must stop buying this crap. Why spend money on something that doesn't work even when new. If everyone stops buying this crap then they won't import it any more.

MAKE IT HERE, NOT OVERSEAS.

If any American company takes its jobs overseas -- DON'T BUY THEIR PRODUCTS.

Canada is a good friend of the United States. I have nothing against Canada at all. I don't have any problems with anything made in Canada. I certainly don't have any problems with people from Canada. I receive and mail emails almost daily to friends in Canada.

STOP BUYING CHINESE CRAP. STOP IMPORTING CHINESE CRAP

[Anonymous]

Thank George Dubya for all those jobs leaving the country. Next headline....United States outsources government to India. This move is an attempt to save the taxpayers the wasted wages on political leaders. The Whitehouse is only a switching center for calls that are sent to India. Hello, you have reached the United States Government LLC. for English press 1........For nuclear holacost instructions....press 2, for all other questions concerning the US and employment within the US call our toll free line to Mexico.

[Anonymous]

that may very well be true, but you can't really place a lt f stock in the idle chatter of truckers.

Last July I was standing outside a DMV office listening to two truckers carrying on and on about how long they'd been driving, how well conected they were in''the industry", how regulations were starting to cause them grief, even mentioned a few topics I recaled reading about in Don Phillips' column.

I mentioned that the railroads were probably happy about the items they were most upset with, perhaps even behind them, and registered blank looks. "Railroads?" was their reply." We don't compete with Railroads" Ofcourse they were employees of a contract carrier, not independants, but still show that ya gotta take the mutterings of truckers with a grain of salt...............

[Anonymous]

I had a long conversation with a truck driver yesterday.
He said the Mexican trucks which are now allowed into the U.S. despite the efforts of the Teamsters and AFL-CIO are killing him and other U.S. truckers.
He said, he usually gets paid 55 cents a mile to haul automobiles on a car carrier, but that Mexican trucking only charges 35 cents a mile.
He said U.S. companies are jumping over to the Mexican Trucking drivers BIG TIME.
Thus, do you veterans feel this will impact the RR's as well? based on trucking being the main competition to RR's?
The carnage continues:
1) U.S. manufacturing is predominately done by China and Mexico
2) U.S. I.T. jobs are going to India in MASS NUMBERS
3) Mexican Trucks putting American Truckers out of work.
When will the madness stop?
There will be a "trickle" effect from U.S. IT jobs being lost upon all other industries, as the biggest spending segment (I.T. workers) become unemployed and/or end up with lower paying I.T. jobs.

Is there any good news?
My lawnman tells me I can work for him anytime I want, and he promises he wont outsource the lawnmower position!