GE vs. EMD which is the best

[Anonymous]

GE locomotives are selling very well. WHY? What do they bring to the rails that EMD doesn't. EMD's I see are popular with the crews but why are the class 1 companies going GE? I like them both for different reasons but it is like which is better, Ford of Chevy. Opinions are very welcome, please give me yours.

[wabash1]

the reason ge are selling are due to the price. the railroad (ns) is buying 2 ge engines for the tidy sum of 3mil and just 1 emd is 3mil. yes the differance is like fords chevy dodge soforth. there are a few things i like about ge,very few. but i have yet to run a bad emd. most will say that a ge will pull when it gets slow on a hard pull. i find that a emd wont let you get slow. for swiching you cant beat a emd.

[PaulWWoodring]

I'll second most of what J says and add that fuel consumption is a big factor in GE's resurgence. Their 4-cycle engine is more fuel efficient than the 2-cycle EMD, which is really important when you consider that a GE AC6000 burns an incredible 286 gallons/hr. in the 8th notch! Most diesels burn about 5 gal./hr. at idle. The loading speed of EMD's is also faster due to the type of throttle systems each of the builders uses, EMD's load faster than GE's, hence they are preferred for switching, when the crew is going for that "early quit" (getting done in less than 8 hrs.)

[Anonymous]

What you say is what I suspected. I have also read that the EMD is more reliable (excluding the 50 series), the 2 cycle engine easier to work on, and the units ride better. However, I understand that the 4 cycle engine is fuel efficient, the GE's are better luggers and they have improved a great deal in reliability. Funny thing, they don't sell well in the "used market" which makes me suspect that when they are done they are REAL done (scrap). The EMD's, like Timex's watches, just keep on a ticking. Am I right?

[Anonymous]

i agree with all the replies also....E.M.D 's are quicker to "load" than GE's no doubt ......GE's are surely less expensive to purchase....i prefer riding in an EMD over a GE ....also prefer running an EMD....it is hard to tell just how hard a GE is "working" by the sound the prime mover is making compared to an EMD...must check ampmeter to determine that....EMD is most certainlt favored by ALL the engineers i have ever worked with on NORFOLK SOUTHERN...THOUGH...GE's are a strong reliable locomotive as well....to quote a long-time engineer i know for a long time "GE should have stuck to making toasters".......

[Anonymous]

This is interesting. No one likes the GE's. They are just tolerated. I thinks some railfans don't like GE because of their hand in the demise of ALCO also. Still, other than price, something must be enduring the railroads although UP bought SD70M's rather than DASH-9's.

[Anonymous]

i work for UP and they made me very happy by ordering those SD70's. I can't stand GE's, they ride rough, take miles (literally)sometimes to load, and they vibrate and rattle everything in the cab to death. among other reasons why to buy GE's is because the people making the decisions don't have to ride'em, run'em, or work on'em. they just see the bottom line. almost universally among people I talk to, no one who actually has to do anything with them, likes a GE.

[Anonymous]

Just a comment...the bottom line seems to be dictating the issue. After all that is what being in business is all about.

[Anonymous]

Hi,
I am from Down Under, as a Retired Loco Driver,
I would love to run GM-EMD over GE units.

[Anonymous]

As railfan, the throb of a 645 beats GE any day. Derek, I was also happy that UP purchased 1000 EMDs instead of GEs. Sense 60 to 80 UP trains pass my house each day in Boone,Iowa. The SD70Ms have also increased UPs average train speed.

[Anonymous]

In one post it said that EMD's except the 50 series were/are good. I was wondering what in particular was wrong with the 50s? I remember that back when I started watching trains in the late 80's the SD50's were one of the engines I saw the most on CSX(usually painted as Seaboard System).

[Anonymous]

EMD pushed the 16cylinder 645 primemover to far with a 3600HP rating. I know UP has rebuilt most to 3500HP know as SD50Ms. And is now retiring them and all of them with the competion of the SD70Ms.So it is the only bad EMD series (SD50&GP50).

[Anonymous]

I would tend to agree with that about the sound of a EMD. I was out along a NS main a few months ago and as a train came around the bend to where I was the lead engine was a GE, but the two trailing units were two SD40-2s with that EMD rumble. Sounding absolutly great echoing off the hills and ridges.

[favuprailroadfan]

Dan,

GE can deliver a locomotive is 26 days, compared to EMD's 87 days (this might have changed also). That is the reason that the railroads are going with GE. I am a big EMD fan, but when it comes down to it, GE's are the pullers. They can get down with it when they need to. GE's are rough riders, that is why crews prefer EMD's. Right me back, and we can talk some more.

Later, Dru
P.S. I prefer Chevy's.

[Anonymous]

Dru,
Thanks for the input. I didn't know about the delivery time but that really makes sense. EMD got rid of a lot ot production capacity when they moved the business north of the boarder. I have read that indeed the GE's are the pullers and that the EMD's are the loved ones of the crews cause of the ride. An observation I have made is that there seems to not be a market for used GE's. I have some theories but nothing for sure. Funny thing, when GE came out with the U25 it was concidered easy to work on. I never heard that about a GE! Dru, I love talking locomotives so yes, lets keep the thread alive.

[wabash1]

most everything i read is that rail buffs love the sound of a EMD unit. if you were trapped on a SD40 for 8-12 hours you have a change of mind. even with ear plugs in the noise will wear you down and work on your nerves. the SD 60 and 70 are not like this. as far as the ride i never notice any differance when they hunt it is hard to stay in the seat on either one. train handling is easier with a EMD unit as GE load real slow. myself i dont like the beloved SD40 the 60 and 70s are better. but will run any EMD over a GE if given a choice. one more thing to add is that i will take a regular control stand over the desk top anyday. desk tops are uncomfortable to run. they are to restricting.

[Anonymous]

The SD40 isn't muffled like the SD60 or 70 and there is also more distance between the exhaust on the 60 or 70 compaired to the 40 so I bet it is nicer in the newer units. As for the control stands, I have heard that and it makes sence to me. Why they went to the desk top type is beyond me.

[favuprailroadfan]

Dan, I have also heard that the GE's are more fuel sucking than the EMD'S. I have the privilage of being able to drive one of the them trusty SD40-2's and they are what they say they are. The have also said that the new 710V16's are more fuel effiecent than the new GE'S 4 cycle. EMD'S two cycle are even better then before. I constantly read about locomotives, and try to keep up with the new developments that are going on. What you said on about when EMD moved north of the border is absolutly(sp) true. Why can't they apply all the new stuff they have in London and move it back to LaGrange, even though they tore down the old building there. So lets keep up talking about this and I will get back to you.
Later, Dru

[Anonymous]

now if we could just get the dispatchers to keep us moving.....

[Anonymous]

Don't all you engineers out there dislike them GE's. I personally hate having a computer sit there and think about what inputs I am telling it to do, before the engine will load or whatever I am telling it to do. As for the desktop, I think that the guy who designed it, must have sat at a desk and thought that we would enjoy it as well. Also, don't you just hate them Electronic Air Brakes...it's so hard to get a feel for them. Unlike the older, much easier to use 26L brakes. We probably all agree that the alerter is a Great safety device, but whoever invented them...should have to hit a button on his/her desk every 45 seconds or risk being punched in the face or something. :-) See how they like it. Thanks for listening to me--rob

[wabash1]

i was wondering how do you drive a SD40.

[wabash1]

i dont mind the wabco electronic brake system. i find it no differant than the 26l. the air is exhausted outside the cab is the biggest thing. and you cant recover from an emergancy as quick as a 26l. but otherwise its just as good as the old system. and the alerter is better than the deadmans pedal. no need to break the rules to get up and get something just do it. annoying but better.

[Anonymous]

J,
Just like driving an airplane or sailing a car, I guess...lol

[PaulWWoodring]

Personally I like the desk-tops, having only recently become an engineer I don't have the experience with the traditional AAR control stands. The best parts of the desk top are having the built-in clipboard for orders - beats having to try and wedge them into the automatic brake handle, as well as the much more effective reading lights for both the engineer and conductor (the cup holders on some are also greatly appriciated. As a conductor, the conductor's desk really comes in handy as well. OK, we're spoiled in comparison to steam days, at least we have toilets and don't have to poop onto a shovel of coal and throw it into the firebox like they did.

The alerters are a definite improvement over the deadman's pedal, but the inconsistancies in the time between alerts can be aggrivating, I've had some that go off every 15 seconds, whether you are taking action that is supposed to start the clock over or not.

I have also found the electronic brake controls to be a little too exacting when you only need to take a little more than a minimum reduction, it's too easy to take 12 lbs. instead of 10, which might mean you stop instead of slowing down.

[Anonymous]

derek, where do you run. EMD is still king in my book. Thought this should be at top of list again.

[favuprailroadfan]

You know what I mean.


Thanks for pointing that out to me. Sorry


Dru

[Anonymous]

J,I hope your spelling isn't indicative of your train handling skills.

[Anonymous]

Hey J, I hope your spelling isn't indicative of your train-handling skills!

[wabash1]

well if your asking weather i riped 1 apart yet ?? naw tain nut'n heck all i did was seprate hoses they roll prit good and those horns makes lot of noise. see i went to georgia to learn hows to drive one and now i do it all the time.they learned me how to speak take em a head ,bring em back and that il do. count to. its easy all you do is re pete what other guy say then stop when he wants to. they evin teach how to spel. and i git paid for it to. its fun except 4 thoz sd40s they to loud.

[Anonymous]

Good to see another aussie. Generally the Clyde/GM/EMD have been a good reliable loco compared to the rest we have. Even though up in the Iron ore areas of Western Australia there are a few GE's and there were a few Alco's.