Why did the UP and CPR only order the SD90/43MAC and no SD80MACs?

[Anonymous]

Are there any insiders at EMD, UP, and CPR who know why the Union Pacific and Canadian Pacific ordered only the SD90/43MAC and none of the 5000 Horse Power SD80MACs?

From all the stories I have read the SD80MAC was more useful at generating horsepower direct from the factory than the "waiting to be upgraded" SD90/43MAC Locomotives.

Why was the Chicago & North Western order for 35 of the SD80MAC Locomotives cancelled in 1995? It sure seems that the Union Pacific can use every single unit of horse power available.

Andrew Falconer

[edbenton]

One of the reasons the SD80MAC was not a huge seller the 20 cyl 710 in it. Look at it this way 4300 HP from 16 or 5000 HP from 20. The H series motor was still in devlopment when those orders were placed. As it was the H was not a huge sucess at least for now so what the UP and CP got were basically SD70MACs in a different shell. The SD80MAC only had a run of 30 total and one reason why the CNW order was cancelled flat out was the 20 cyl 710. UP anymore is not the RR that takes chances with motive power like they used to like with the double diesels from all the builders. The 16 cyl 710 is a common engine and does not require the special ordered parts like the 20 cyl one. Look at it this way say they had a couple of the SD80's and one broke its crank say in OH on a coal train the RR it is on would more than likely NOT have the parts needed to fix it so it would be dragged back DIC to a shop that has the right part for it. That right there is why more than likely the 20 cyl prime mover is a dead engine.

[fuzzybroken]

IIRC, Canadian Pacific did order some 80s, but changed their minds and decided to go with the 90s instead. Didn't work out too well for them though -- that's why CP is quickly becoming AC4400 railroad...

[UPTRAIN]

Yeah, UP had them ordered in anticipation for the H to be implanted later on, called "convertables", like the GE's. Since the H basically sucks, they just stuck with their 43's, since the H's that they did get, are now being returned to EMD and leased to KCS.

[zardoz]

Andrew--tone down your text to a reasonable level. No one wants to be yelled at.

[Anonymous]

I am not yelling. All Capitals is Yelling. Font Size 4 is just making it easier to read.

Font size 4 makes the text plump and juicy, lush and plush.

Take a look at the font size and thickness at Atlas O
www.atlaso.com
The people at Atlas O are not yelling.

Andrew Falconer

[bnsfkline]

The Chicago and Northwestern had ordered something like 100 SD80MACs (Unsure of the correct amount) and these units were a mere 12 days from production start when the Merger with Union Pacific happened. Two days later, Union Pacific requested that the order be changed from SD80MAC to SD90/43MAC's

[Gluefinger]

The number of days until the CNW production began is different from foamer to foamer. I read that the SD80MACs would have been under a "power by the hour" agreement and worked on at Proviso.

[Anonymous]

Wow. The reports on the Chicago & North Western potential SD80MACs have a greater variation than I could have realized.

The production of the SD80MAC sounds almost like a game of dare. Everyone was daring everyone else to make the biggest lease or purchase in order to make the SD80MAC a regular production model. If everyone had not backed out, then it would have been a regular production model. That sounds like a paradox.

Then again 30 after the SD45 was produced, who would have thought another 20 cylinder engine would be used in EMD Locomotives.

Andrew Falconer

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

QUOTE: Originally posted by falconer


The production of the SD80MAC sounds almost like a game of dare. Everyone was daring everyone else to make the biggest lease or purchase in order to make the SD80MAC a regular production model. If everyone had not backed out, then it would have been a regular production model. That sounds like a paradox.

Andrew Falconer

This sort of thing is routine in the aviation business. The manufacturers propose a new model of airliner and solicit orders for lease or purchase. When enough confirmed orders are in place (50 aircraft seems to be the cutoff), production begins.

[Anonymous]

In the July 2006 issue of TRAINS there is an article about Norfolk Southern having all the new Diesel-Electric Locomotives rated at only 4000 Horsepower. The point behind this is reduced maintenance for the same amount of tractive effort on the rails.

If the people at GE and EMD and M-K had closely paid attention to the practices of the Norfolk Southern power management team the over hyped 1990's High-Horsepower war would have been replaced with a more realistic high-traction war.

Andrew Falconer

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

NS and its predecessors have long been conservative in their motive power practices. The standardization at 4000 HP is similar to N&W's initial dieselization with GP9's and RS11's almost exclusively and N&W's initial purchase of C420's since they were more mechanically similar to RS11/36's already on the roster (they all have V-12 251's).

Also notice that the other major carriers are still buying the 4300-4400 HP locomotives that are being offered by the builders. Apparently, they can live with the extra maintenance expense or they have operations that can use the extra horsepower.

A high-traction war would have to be based on improved wheel-slip control and CTE or equivalent computer software. Horsepower is still needed to move the train at any speed much above 20 MPH.

[LARRY RIGNEY]

Just recently Norfolk Southern sold their remaining SD80Macs.

Candian Pacific bought 6.

Progress Rail bought the rest.

Recently Candain Pacific has been recycling all their SD90MAC'S through Progress Rail for refurbished SD70ACU'S.

Does anybody know what is happening with these SD80MAC"S?