Tunnel Motor Uniqueness

[NscaleMike]

Here is one a snoot nosed T-Motor with the "L" window.



Here is another image of mine...perhaps a better view...

[chad thomas]

That L shaped window was common on the tunnel motors when delivered but was later changed to the more standard window shapes.

[Murphy Siding]

AG: Thanks for the link, it's quite interesting. Today, by chance, I was looking through a 1997 Trains Magazine that showed pics of SP tunnel motors 9302 & 9113 which had downright weird windshields. The engineer's side had one, big L-shaped windshield. The other side had a rectangular windshield starting at the center line, and a verticle window in the front-facing door. I guess I'm used to the front of a diesel locomotive looking fairly symmetrical, so these two did catch my eye.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

From the pictures I have seen (DMIR / CN) I would say no.

I got that impression from the pictures too. I just wondered, as some on here mentioned that having the fans and radiators down low created additional maintenance problems.

Don't know if you are still interested, but I ran into this article about Tunnel motors, and of you follow it along for about 3 pages there are a lot of pictures with the service doors opened.

Thought you might like

http://www.trainboard.com/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/108/t/000026/p/1.html

[SSW9389]

There may also be some CEFX leasers retaining the 20 cylinder engines.

[carnej1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by James_the_Mad

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

AFIK they have all been rebuilt with 16 cylinder engines.

I believe that is correct. Every UP SD45T-2 I've seen recently has been marked as an SD40T-2, indicating a reduction of horse power. I can tell they used to be 45's because they have 3 radiator hatches, but the stencilling says they are now rated as 40's.

Kansas City Southern has or had some SD45T-2s rebuilt with Dash 3 electronics but retaining the 20 cylinder engines. I remember reading a post awhile back on another forum from a KCS engineer confirming that. I have no clue if any are still active though..........

[carnej1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tunnelmtrfan

It's very intresting that MRL has not aquired any of these engines. With coal trains and long freight drags through the area up north thru tunnels, I wonder how the new SD-70 Ace will do, or will EMD try to design a SD-70T? Probably not but it could make for a good project engine. Also how many true SD-45T-2 retain the 20 cylinder prime mover that the SD-45 were plagued with?

If I'm not mistaken the air intake and radiator systems on the 70 series EMDs are considerably different than earlier models...........I'm sure someone else on the board can elaborate.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

AFIK they have all been rebuilt with 16 cylinder engines.

I believe that is correct. Every UP SD45T-2 I've seen recently has been marked as an SD40T-2, indicating a reduction of horse power. I can tell they used to be 45's because they have 3 radiator hatches, but the stencilling says they are now rated as 40's.

[espeefoamer]

AFIK they have all been rebuilt with 16 cylinder engines.

[tunnelmtrfan]

It's very intresting that MRL has not aquired any of these engines. With coal trains and long freight drags through the area up north thru tunnels, I wonder how the new SD-70 Ace will do, or will EMD try to design a SD-70T? Probably not but it could make for a good project engine. Also how many true SD-45T-2 retain the 20 cylinder prime mover that the SD-45 were plagued with?

[edbenton]

Same thing in the OTR trucking industry. Get a company that says oh 320 hp is enough and you are trying to move 40 tons up some of the grades in West Virgina across I-68 then you lose the turbo talk about messed up. I had that happen to me had to deliver the load first and I had maybe 180 hp to use before the drivetrain losses. I smoked so bad I looked like and Alco going down the road. After I dropped the load off I went to Cat they cried. I had blown the turbo to peices punched a hole in the Intercooler and the proceeded to burn 2 pistons. I spent 3 days in the hotel while they rebuilt the motor.

The funny thing is the company thought it was warrenty. Cat said hell no you had actually turned the engine down to 280 HP from 330 so the warrenty was null and void.

[Anonymous]

Well, SP has always had weird Locos, lol I remember being on Cab-Forwards in the same tunnels as T-2s and All I remember is the T2s did not always stay cool between tunnels, I think it had more to do with the train weight and the way the loco engineer handled the train, as much as anything. Sometimes here on the "Hill" in Oregon, no matter what you designed, or how you drove it , stalling from overheating was the "norm"

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

as some on here mentioned that having the fans and radiators down low created additional maintenance problems.

just something I read somewhere. Something about supporting the weight while bolting/unbolting replacements being a pain.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

From the pictures I have seen (DMIR / CN) I would say no.

I got that impression from the pictures too. I just wondered, as some on here mentioned that having the fans and radiators down low created additional maintenance problems.

[chad thomas]

From the pictures I have seen (DMIR / CN) I would say no.

[Murphy Siding]

When a tunnel motor is rebuilt, is the fan arrangement usually moved back to the upper postion?

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cpbloom

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by cpbloom

Ok I got an add-on question.

Are GP15-1s similar to tunnel motors or are they similar only in looks?

Are you saying similar, because the intakes for the radiators are down low?

Yes.

The GP15-1 and the GP15T and the MP15AC all used the same arrangement of (almost) horizontal radiators with a electric (AC driven) fan underneath. These were tha same items and arrangement as in a Tunnel motor except of course that an SD45T-2 had three fans and a really big radiator, the SD40T-2 had two fans and a somewhat smaller radiator, and the GP15-1 had an even smaller radiator and a single fan. A number of EMD export units use the same arrangement, and some older types had a similar arrangement with a mechanically driven fan under the radiator, as did USA GE locomotives.

One problem with this arrangement was that the higher force of air blowing through the radiator cores resulted in the cores eroding from grit blown through them, so they didn't last as long as conventional radiators where the fans suck the air through them at lower speed. Nothing is free, not even air through a radiator.

M636C

[Huck Huckaba]

Thanks to you all for an outstanding thread.... It was the most educational article. This is why I always look here for any information. You all are really sharp.. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and expertise. [:)][:)]

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by James_the_Mad

It became an issue with the SD40 & SD45 because of their higher horsepower. Cooling capacity wasn't an issue on lower horsepower units.

I take that to mean that later EMD's had that problem worked out?

Yes

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by James_the_Mad

It became an issue with the SD40 & SD45 because of their higher horsepower. Cooling capacity wasn't an issue on lower horsepower units.

I take that to mean that later EMD's had that problem worked out?

[edbenton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainfan1221

If I recall, the frame was the same legnth as a contemporary SD40-2, it looked bigger because it actually filled the whole frame out. I could be wrong. It is very hard to judge once something is changed on a locomotive.

Actually the SD40-2 and the 45-2 shared the same frame. The SD40T-2 is 2 feet longer than the 40-2

[Anonymous]

It became an issue with the SD40 & SD45 because of their higher horsepower. Cooling capacity wasn't an issue on lower horsepower units.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

What it boils down to is the 40-45 series locomotives cooling system was insufficient for the conditions in snowsheds and tunnels. The tunnel motors were a "band aid" for the insufficiency of those.

Did others EMD units up untill then not have that problem?

I don't know.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

What it boils down to is the 40-45 series locomotives cooling system was insufficient for the conditions in snowsheds and tunnels. The tunnel motors were a "band aid" for the insufficiency of those.

Did others EMD units up untill then not have that problem?

[trainfan1221]

If I recall, the frame was the same legnth as a contemporary SD40-2, it looked bigger because it actually filled the whole frame out. I could be wrong. It is very hard to judge once something is changed on a locomotive.

[chad thomas]

What it boils down to is the 40-45 series locomotives cooling system was insufficient for the conditions in snowsheds and tunnels. The tunnel motors were a "band aid" for the insufficiency of those.

[coborn35]

As far as I know, they just looked like that. Another locomotive has lower intakes, but I cant remember which....

[cpbloom]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by cpbloom

Ok I got an add-on question.

Are GP15-1s similar to tunnel motors or are they similar only in looks?

Are you saying similar, because the intakes for the radiators are down low?

Yes.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cpbloom

Ok I got an add-on question.

Are GP15-1s similar to tunnel motors or are they similar only in looks?

Are you saying similar, because the intakes for the radiators are down low?