An intelligent topic about RR crossings

[Anonymous]

Hi,
First of all I would like to say that I am not another Missouri. And if you're out there Missouri, please do not respond to this. This is actually the first new topic I've posted. With all the recent talk of railroad crossings and the total idiots who drive through them I was reminded of something I saw in the July issue of The Railway Magazine (it's British so I don't imagine many of you out there read it). There was a picture showing a new type of railroad crossing being used in Russia that prevents people from driving around gates. A section of the road (perhaps 2 feet in length? that runs right across the width of the road) tilts up at about an appoximately 45 degree angle when a train goes by with the raised end facing drivers. This seems like a rather ingenious idea, but I would tend to think it would probably be more complicated and expensive when compared to installing double gates. I was wondering what others out there think about this idea. Perhaps the Russians have something?

[Anonymous]

Hi,
First of all I would like to say that I am not another Missouri. And if you're out there Missouri, please do not respond to this. This is actually the first new topic I've posted. With all the recent talk of railroad crossings and the total idiots who drive through them I was reminded of something I saw in the July issue of The Railway Magazine (it's British so I don't imagine many of you out there read it). There was a picture showing a new type of railroad crossing being used in Russia that prevents people from driving around gates. A section of the road (perhaps 2 feet in length? that runs right across the width of the road) tilts up at about an appoximately 45 degree angle when a train goes by with the raised end facing drivers. This seems like a rather ingenious idea, but I would tend to think it would probably be more complicated and expensive when compared to installing double gates. I was wondering what others out there think about this idea. Perhaps the Russians have something?

[JoeKoh]

people here in America would still try to drive over it.
stay safe
joe

[JoeKoh]

people here in America would still try to drive over it.
stay safe
joe

[Anonymous]

The State of Illinios has found the most effective safe crossing is one with both double gates and lane dividers. They have tried a catch net, It was written up in the Chicago Tribune. This net was designed to drop down and catch any car proceeding pass the stop line. It was a failure though, they found in test that a speeding car just tour the net. I will try to find that article.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

The State of Illinios has found the most effective safe crossing is one with both double gates and lane dividers. They have tried a catch net, It was written up in the Chicago Tribune. This net was designed to drop down and catch any car proceeding pass the stop line. It was a failure though, they found in test that a speeding car just tour the net. I will try to find that article.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

I saw a demonstration of a crossing gate on tv that could give inward a short distance to absorb the impact of a car then rebound with it without causing major damage.In the demo it caught a full size pickup and rebounded safely with it.I wonder what happened to the system.

[Anonymous]

I saw a demonstration of a crossing gate on tv that could give inward a short distance to absorb the impact of a car then rebound with it without causing major damage.In the demo it caught a full size pickup and rebounded safely with it.I wonder what happened to the system.

[zardoz]

There was a system similar (or perhaps the one barbarosa refers to) installed in Madison, Wi. I believe the street name was Whitney Way. I saw an article somewhere that the gates were tested to stop a full-size pickup truck going 40mph. This was a year or more ago, so I am not exactly sure of the details. I was in Madison last Saturday and happened to drive by that crossing. I think those were the fancy gates I saw there.

BTW, the grade crossings in Madison all have signs next to them indicating "NO TRAIN HORN". I wonder if it is a coincidence that in a city with no whistling, the Wisconsin Southern felt the need to install such a drastic crossing protection system?

[zardoz]

There was a system similar (or perhaps the one barbarosa refers to) installed in Madison, Wi. I believe the street name was Whitney Way. I saw an article somewhere that the gates were tested to stop a full-size pickup truck going 40mph. This was a year or more ago, so I am not exactly sure of the details. I was in Madison last Saturday and happened to drive by that crossing. I think those were the fancy gates I saw there.

BTW, the grade crossings in Madison all have signs next to them indicating "NO TRAIN HORN". I wonder if it is a coincidence that in a city with no whistling, the Wisconsin Southern felt the need to install such a drastic crossing protection system?

[BentnoseWillie]

The only problem I see with such a device is that if it can keep a car out, it can also keep a car in. That would have to be addressed.

It's an age-old problem - how do you design out or legislate against poor judgement? Alas, I fear that you can't in this case, short of replacing public crossings at grade with tunnels and flyovers wherever possible.

[BentnoseWillie]

The only problem I see with such a device is that if it can keep a car out, it can also keep a car in. That would have to be addressed.

It's an age-old problem - how do you design out or legislate against poor judgement? Alas, I fear that you can't in this case, short of replacing public crossings at grade with tunnels and flyovers wherever possible.

[edblysard]

Such street level baricades exsist here already, at the entrance to many military bases. They are very expensive to build, install and operate. The hydraulics alone would far exceed the cost of a quad gate with the full compliment of bells and lights.
And at quite a few grade crossings, there isnt enough space to install such a system.
Remember, you the taxpayer pay for these. And there is a reason the current design of arms are made out of extruded aluminum or fiberglass, they are designed to break off because people will drive through them, and the designers dont want you trapped between them. Some, like the new ones we just installed down here, pivot on the mast of the crossbuck/light pole, so when someone drives into them, they just swing to the side, and we can pu***hem back in place. Beats buying new arms every other day.
And the reason the Russians installed such a system is rather barbaric, they would rather have a citizen/comrade die driving into such a baricade, than hitting and damageing a state owned locomotive or rolling stock.[:0]
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Such street level baricades exsist here already, at the entrance to many military bases. They are very expensive to build, install and operate. The hydraulics alone would far exceed the cost of a quad gate with the full compliment of bells and lights.
And at quite a few grade crossings, there isnt enough space to install such a system.
Remember, you the taxpayer pay for these. And there is a reason the current design of arms are made out of extruded aluminum or fiberglass, they are designed to break off because people will drive through them, and the designers dont want you trapped between them. Some, like the new ones we just installed down here, pivot on the mast of the crossbuck/light pole, so when someone drives into them, they just swing to the side, and we can pu***hem back in place. Beats buying new arms every other day.
And the reason the Russians installed such a system is rather barbaric, they would rather have a citizen/comrade die driving into such a baricade, than hitting and damageing a state owned locomotive or rolling stock.[:0]
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

I definetly aggree with you Joe. Even by trying harder to keep people from crossing, they will just try even harder to get across. Just think how much time and money has been spent over the years all because of peoples ignorance. I wonder what kind of results the Russians are having with it? Speaking of different types of crossings I once saw a program on TV showing some railways in Europe. There was a scene that showed a train going through a crossing in Italy I think that had a device with two arms coming out from it each with a little disk on the end that spun around slowly like a windmill when the train passed. To me this seems more like a fanciful decoration than a warning device, but I suppose it would get peoples attention.

[Anonymous]

I definetly aggree with you Joe. Even by trying harder to keep people from crossing, they will just try even harder to get across. Just think how much time and money has been spent over the years all because of peoples ignorance. I wonder what kind of results the Russians are having with it? Speaking of different types of crossings I once saw a program on TV showing some railways in Europe. There was a scene that showed a train going through a crossing in Italy I think that had a device with two arms coming out from it each with a little disk on the end that spun around slowly like a windmill when the train passed. To me this seems more like a fanciful decoration than a warning device, but I suppose it would get peoples attention.

[Anonymous]

WEll this might be off Topic, but still rather interesting. it too is about Ralroad crossings.

Couteaux du lac crossing.. used to be brutal. Absolutely terrible. old Grandfathered crossing lights... junkie things they were.. It finally hit the town that they needed to do somehting.

They were replaced top of the line gates and everything.. more lights then you can shake a stick at.

I know your thinking.. how is this interesting.. this happens every day.. well heres the cool part..

the old RR crossing lights Were moved 250 meters BACK from the tracks, the RED lens taken out and replaced with YELLOW lens, the X at the top was removed and replaced with a yellow one, with black lettering saying TRAIN NEAR... WHEN FLASHING.

LAst year they uped the system even mopre, when they timed the "Warning Railraod lights" to the block signaling system. as soon as the block signal signals would light up (just after the corssing, indicating a train is in the block somewhere.. the yellow warning lights woudl start.) This ofcourse sparked complaints from the neighbors because the bell was loud and ringing 5 minutes before the train passed through the corssing.. but the vast majority of them Thought this was a great, excellent idea..

So whats that missouri.. a 5-10 minute warning without the barriers even going down!! and then ofcourse 30 secondes before the train comes through the red ones, or "Regular warning devices" start, just like regular.

[Anonymous]

WEll this might be off Topic, but still rather interesting. it too is about Ralroad crossings.

Couteaux du lac crossing.. used to be brutal. Absolutely terrible. old Grandfathered crossing lights... junkie things they were.. It finally hit the town that they needed to do somehting.

They were replaced top of the line gates and everything.. more lights then you can shake a stick at.

I know your thinking.. how is this interesting.. this happens every day.. well heres the cool part..

the old RR crossing lights Were moved 250 meters BACK from the tracks, the RED lens taken out and replaced with YELLOW lens, the X at the top was removed and replaced with a yellow one, with black lettering saying TRAIN NEAR... WHEN FLASHING.

LAst year they uped the system even mopre, when they timed the "Warning Railraod lights" to the block signaling system. as soon as the block signal signals would light up (just after the corssing, indicating a train is in the block somewhere.. the yellow warning lights woudl start.) This ofcourse sparked complaints from the neighbors because the bell was loud and ringing 5 minutes before the train passed through the corssing.. but the vast majority of them Thought this was a great, excellent idea..

So whats that missouri.. a 5-10 minute warning without the barriers even going down!! and then ofcourse 30 secondes before the train comes through the red ones, or "Regular warning devices" start, just like regular.

[zardoz]

Kev,
That system seems to be a really good idea. Perhaps the 5 minutes of bell ringing was a bit much, but the yellow lights warning would probably help. Unless drivers saw yellow lights the same as yellow traffic signal lights: a reason to speed up to beat the red!

[zardoz]

Kev,
That system seems to be a really good idea. Perhaps the 5 minutes of bell ringing was a bit much, but the yellow lights warning would probably help. Unless drivers saw yellow lights the same as yellow traffic signal lights: a reason to speed up to beat the red!

[Anonymous]

I think that part of the problem is that drivers are too stupid these days to recognize what a flashing railroad signal means. We had a crossing in a previous town that I worked for that had standard red-yellow-green traffic signals at a crossing in addition to the standard RR flashers. To my observations this combination was more effective as there is no question in the mind of drivers what each color means and what action is expected.

One action I was able to do that was effective was to suppliment standard cross bucks on unsignaled crossings with stop signs. It to seemed effective since the charge was changed from an un-enforceable running a cross buck in front of a train to running a stop sign- which can be written any time- not just when a train is in the area. In my experience people started to respect them more (at least as much as they do stop signs else where.)

If I had a suggestion now it would be to phase out the standard RR flasher and replece it with standard MUTCD traffic signals- flasing yellow with no train in circiut and solid red when a train in in the circiut.

[Anonymous]

I think that part of the problem is that drivers are too stupid these days to recognize what a flashing railroad signal means. We had a crossing in a previous town that I worked for that had standard red-yellow-green traffic signals at a crossing in addition to the standard RR flashers. To my observations this combination was more effective as there is no question in the mind of drivers what each color means and what action is expected.

One action I was able to do that was effective was to suppliment standard cross bucks on unsignaled crossings with stop signs. It to seemed effective since the charge was changed from an un-enforceable running a cross buck in front of a train to running a stop sign- which can be written any time- not just when a train is in the area. In my experience people started to respect them more (at least as much as they do stop signs else where.)

If I had a suggestion now it would be to phase out the standard RR flasher and replece it with standard MUTCD traffic signals- flasing yellow with no train in circiut and solid red when a train in in the circiut.

[wabash1]

Ed

the swing arm system isnt new here they been here for sometime and the other type crossing we have is one that when you hit it it dont give right away it takes alittle to move it then you shear the pin . the maintainer comes out and puts a pin back in and off he goes.( maybe a little more time than that but close) .

the other suggestion i have for crossing is that the crews are ask to report all close calls at crossings. but the cops wont ticket anyone we report cause they didnt see it happen. its a simple process but a good one is to deputies the crews. then when they report a driver on a close call. they can report to court and testify. after these people haft to start paying for these high fines maybe they will think twice. it wont stop them but it may slow them down.

[wabash1]

Ed

the swing arm system isnt new here they been here for sometime and the other type crossing we have is one that when you hit it it dont give right away it takes alittle to move it then you shear the pin . the maintainer comes out and puts a pin back in and off he goes.( maybe a little more time than that but close) .

the other suggestion i have for crossing is that the crews are ask to report all close calls at crossings. but the cops wont ticket anyone we report cause they didnt see it happen. its a simple process but a good one is to deputies the crews. then when they report a driver on a close call. they can report to court and testify. after these people haft to start paying for these high fines maybe they will think twice. it wont stop them but it may slow them down.

[SALfan]

Why not install cameras that are activated when the crossing gates/lights are activated, to take pictures of the license plates of the the cars that run through/around the crossing gate arms? There are a lot of red-light cameras in my area that capture the license plates of red-light runners and automatically generate a traffic ticket that is mailed to the vehicle owner; they have been very effective in decreasing the number of accidents at traffic lights.

[SALfan]

Why not install cameras that are activated when the crossing gates/lights are activated, to take pictures of the license plates of the the cars that run through/around the crossing gate arms? There are a lot of red-light cameras in my area that capture the license plates of red-light runners and automatically generate a traffic ticket that is mailed to the vehicle owner; they have been very effective in decreasing the number of accidents at traffic lights.

[oltmannd]

>>Why not install cameras that are activated when the crossing gates/lights are activated, to take pictures of the license plates of the the cars that run through/around the crossing gate arms? <<

Yes. Local governments ought to do this and pay for it!

[oltmannd]

>>Why not install cameras that are activated when the crossing gates/lights are activated, to take pictures of the license plates of the the cars that run through/around the crossing gate arms? <<

Yes. Local governments ought to do this and pay for it!

[ironhorseman]

To me the most inconvinient part of the crossing is how bumpy it gets.

In regards to camaras at crossings: this is already done in some places.

In regards to barriers: they may be designed to keep people out as well as being trapped in. To solve this put the barrier 50' out from the rails.

It's amazing we can stop an aircraft landing on a carrier using ropes and nets, but motorists are so determined to get through they'll tear through nets. I'm sure nothing short of a reinforced steel wall that raises from underground twice as wide as the road will stop some people.

A more practical idea would be to put up stop signs and traffic lights, but we all know how people like to run red lights and breeze through stop signs. Heck, people don't even stop for ambulances and fire trucks anymore.

You'll have to me more creative than barricades, bells, and lights. Maybe a "car wash while u wait" will keep people stopped at crossings.

Or maybe there can be a robotic arm that pops out of the ground to grab the car and place it in the back of the line to wait.

Or an electomagnetic shield can be put in to disable the automobile if it gets to close to the crossing.

[ironhorseman]

To me the most inconvinient part of the crossing is how bumpy it gets.

In regards to camaras at crossings: this is already done in some places.

In regards to barriers: they may be designed to keep people out as well as being trapped in. To solve this put the barrier 50' out from the rails.

It's amazing we can stop an aircraft landing on a carrier using ropes and nets, but motorists are so determined to get through they'll tear through nets. I'm sure nothing short of a reinforced steel wall that raises from underground twice as wide as the road will stop some people.

A more practical idea would be to put up stop signs and traffic lights, but we all know how people like to run red lights and breeze through stop signs. Heck, people don't even stop for ambulances and fire trucks anymore.

You'll have to me more creative than barricades, bells, and lights. Maybe a "car wash while u wait" will keep people stopped at crossings.

Or maybe there can be a robotic arm that pops out of the ground to grab the car and place it in the back of the line to wait.

Or an electomagnetic shield can be put in to disable the automobile if it gets to close to the crossing.