Train Tickets

[Anonymous]

Who gets the ticket?

State senator derailed with police summons

By JUSTIN POST Tribune Chronicle


LORDSTOWN - ''Calling Senator Hagan, what is your location? Someone would like to speak with you.''

Those are the words that state Sen. Robert F. Hagan, D-Youngstown, heard Wed-nesday minutes before a Lordstown officer boarded his locomotive to deliver a summons.
Hagan, who works as a part-time CSX locomotive engineer, was cited for a first-degree misdemeanor of blocking roads. The Youngstown Democrat must appear at 9 a.m. July 10 before Newton Falls Municipal Judge Thomas L. Old.

The senator was cited for obstructing Salt Springs Road and Lyntz Road just north of the General Motors Lordstown Complex almost a week earlier.

The summons already was filled out with Hagan's Social Security number, birth date and other information when the officer boarded the train, a fact that Hagan believes is suspicious.

''I am a little bit perplexed. How did they know it was me?'' Hagan said. ''I don't know if it was a Republican involved or what.''

Hagan had picked up a shipment of 41 vehicles from the GM complex, and his conductor was waiting for clearance from a dispatcher in Jacksonville, Fla., to switch rails.

The move was stalled because of nearby train traffic, however, and an officer apparently timed the train as it blocked traffic, Hagan said.

Lordstown police Chief Brent Milhoan was unavailable for comment Thursday afternoon.

State law stipulates that trains may not be stopped for more than five minutes, according to Hagan. The senator admits that his engine was stopped too long, but says its not his job to watch the clock.

''I am not arguing that, I'm sure it was five minutes,'' he said. ''It's not the engineer's responsibility to make sure the road crossings are not blocked, it's the conductor and if he says go, I go. If he tells me to slow down, I slow down.''

Hagan began working on trains 33 years ago and can't recall a railroad worker ever being cited for blocking a road.

''It was kind of funny, but what are you going to do?'' he said. ''When the police officer hit me with the summons, I was kind of shocked.''

Still, Hagan said he understands the importance of keeping roads open to vehicle traffic.

''The issue is blocking the road crossing in a time of emergency, and of course, we feel the same way,'' he said.

Hagan has reported the matter to the CSX legal division.

''I think the law will show that it isn't the engineer that is responsible,'' he said. ''It is kind of funny, but what are you going to do?''

[Anonymous]

Well Senator Hagen gave the typical engineer and politican response all in one. "Its not my job to know or do something if I know my train is in violation of the law".

I worked 45 years with engineers of his mentality and it always was I am the boss until something was wrong or an accident happened. Than it was I do as I am told.

[Anonymous]

Something does not sound right. We have laws like that here in Illinios, but they cannot ticket the engineer they can only fine the railroad company.Were did you get this information at? What state did it happen in? You realize an engineer cannot proceed with out a proper signal, a rule that is mandated by FEDERAL law.
ILLINIOS

[eolafan]

Please read the original thread again and you will see that the source was The Tribune Chronicle and the location was obviously in Ohio (did you see the city name Youngstown?). We all were graded on "Reading Comprehension" in elementary school, guess you missed that one!

[Anonymous]

Something does not sound right here either. You claim to have worked with engineers for 45 years. Doing what? What was your job or career field? Are you and missouri brothers? For your babble sounds about the same as his. If you worked with engineers for 45 years, than you must realize they are protected by FEDERAL mandated rules.
ILLINIOS

[Anonymous]

I have not heard of the newspaper Tribune Chronicle have you? As far as the city of Youngstown, there are several states that have cities called Youngstown. Don't you have a train to watch?
TIM A

[edblysard]

If you are going to quote someone, it would behove you to do so correctly, instead of editing and phraphrasing their words. You changed the contend and meaning of what was said, somewhat like missouri rewrites and takes quotes out of context to make them appear as if something else was said.
To wit, what the senator said was "it's not the engineer's responsibility to make sure road crossings are not blocked, it's the conductors and if he says go, I go, if he tells me to slow down, I slow down."
Which is quite true, he is forbidden to move the train without clear, consise orders from me, the conductor, by federaly mandated rules. If he does, the FRA will fine him, somewhere in the range of $2000.00 for the first time.
It is my responsibility to make sure crossings are not blocked, not his. You seemed to indicate that the engineer is some how in charge of the entire opperation. If you worked in T&E service, you know better. The engineer is responsible for the condition of locomotive, and the safe handling of the train. It is the condctors responsibility to make sure the train is in compliance with federal rules and laws, and both share co-responsibility for the safe movement of the consist and train. Only the conductor may decide to move, or not mave a train, it is soley his responsibility, he decides if the train is in the clear, or if it blocks crossings, and he alone decides if you should move, stay put, or if the delay warrants it, cut the crossings.
The engineer may suggest a course of action, but may not take steps to impliment a movement without the consent of the conductor.
You changed his meaning, by misquoting him, and changed the content of the quote, to make it seem as if he didnt care, or he alone made the decision to block the crossings.
Gee, sounds like a typical politican answer, changing what was really said to fit your agenda.
And I have worked with engineers, in T&E service for 6 years plus, and have yet to have one try to run the show.
I would guess you dont and havent worked in T&E service, as all of us who do, know who really is the boss, the conductor.
The engineer runs the train, I run the show.
Ed

[Jackflash]

Being an engineer and former conductor I agree
with Ed 100%. jackflash

[Anonymous]

Ed, I cannot prove it but I believe missouri and ringer are the same person. I have noticed this tactic in other threads. If this is true than that is proof positive that missouri is not interested in rail safty. And is doing this for the soul purpose of damaging this sight. I wi***he Editors would look into this matter.
TIM ARGUBRIGHT

[edblysard]

Hi Tim,
Kinda had the same idea before, that missouri had one name he used while he was at work, on their computer, and one he used at home in the basement.
But if your going to quote some one, then quote them, not paraphrase their words, or edit them to fit your needs.
Chaps me wrong when someone does that.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[eolafan]

Tim, yes, as a matter of fact I do know of the Tribune-Chronicle. It is the primary newspaper of Warren, OH which is very close to Youngstown, OH, which is the largest "primary" city to the General Motors plant at Lordstown, OH which lies between Youngstown and Warren, OH

And, oh by the way, yes I am going to watch some trains today, but I suggest that before you do the same that you do some refreshing of your geography skills before you tray and "slam" my knowledge again.

[Anonymous]

Sir, you are the one who trayed and slamed my knowledge. This is the first I have heard of this newspaper. As far as the name of the city there are several states that have a city called Youngstown. Just because you have knowledge of a certain area of the country, you should not assume everyone has that same knowledge. In my posting to missouri (and not to you) I asked for some clarification on this matter. You sir, are the one who responded with the ignorant statement.
TIM ARGUBRIGHT

[Anonymous]

I don't understand this! Why does everything posted on this forum turn into a feud? I agree that no engineer will take off until he hears "OK to proceed" but instead of everyone jumping over each other, why not post what you read in any newspaper and then listen to the people who actually do the job. Civility costs nothing.
Pop.

[JoeKoh]

This is an example why things don't get fixed.as we've stated before the gov't controls who gets funding for crossing improvements.Its a political shellgame.Csx will end up paying the $100 fine.But something still smells fishy here.
joe

[Anonymous]

Pssst Ed. This is a state law NOT FRA. You think the FRA is actually going to have a law on something railroad related.

I believe the UTU turned him in because----State Senator Bob Hagan says remote control railroad devices are unsafe
COLUMBUS, Ohio --State Senator Bob Hagan (D-Youngstown) today called the use of remote control locomotive devices "unsafe and unproven." The statement comes in light of a recent trend among railroad companies to use remote control devices to operate locomotives.

Senator Hagan, a who is a locomotive engineer and a member of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers (BLE), has proposed legislation to prohibit the use of the remote controlled devices in Ohio and allow fines to be levied against companies that break the proposed law.

"It's obvious to many of us in the railroad community that we're jeopardizing the public's safety by using remote control devices," Senator Hagan said. "Locomotive engineers receive months of training both in the classroom and in the field before they are certified to operate a locomotive. Workers that are operating a locomotive using a remote control devise in lieu of an on-board engineer receive no more than one week of training. This is a recipe for disaster."

Senator Hagan's proposed legislation would fine railroad companies no less than $10,000 if they are found using remote control devices instead of locomotive engineers. The Public Utilities Commission of Ohio (PUCO) could be charged with enforcing the proposed law.

"It's arrogant for railroad companies to put profit ahead of safety or loyalty to their workers," Senator Hagan said. "Using remote control devices may save the company a little money now, but at what price to public safety?"


Tuesday, August 27, 2002

[edblysard]

Pssstt moron,
its part of the GCOR, the curent version, not your 1800s version, and in most states, they too have laws about blocking crossings, but again, the engineer is not in charge of the train, the conductor is. But your too stupid to read the rest of what I wrote, and having never worked around trains, or real people in the real world for that matter, you have no idea what your writing about.
Dumber that dirt.
Why dont you go screw around with the air traffic controlers?
The Unihead Ed

[Anonymous]

Pssst Ed. The GCOR is nothing LEGAL now is it? In fact it's unconstitutional when the crews aren't allowed to say "heck yeah these tracks were rotten is why the train derailed" or "if the dang railroad wasn't so cheap they would have put gates in there for us, cut the brush, and slowed the train speeds down through that BLIND crossing."

[JoeKoh]

Pop
I agree.Missouri has this habit of leaving out information now we know the rest of the story.Like I said its a political shellgame here in ohio.They raise our taxes then find a 180 million dollar surplus.The've needed a school funding program for years and haven't come up with one and the medicare program in ohio needs revamped.We ohio taxpayers are caught in the middle.Missouri has never run a train.I have never run a train but I know who is in charge.
stay safe
joe

[edblysard]

How in the world do you get constitutional law mixed into rotting ties?
What part of Federal Railroad Administration dont you get?
Man, you need to have your meds bumped up, a lot.
Or just stay in the basement longer.
Ed

[eolafan]

OK Timmy, have it your way, if that makes you really happy.

[Anonymous]

What ever

[Anonymous]

The RULE says the train crews can't talk to reporters. That's a Freedom of Speech violation. You know the Constitution.

[Anonymous]

Who do you work for. I am sure the company you work for has the same arrangments. I work for the State of Illinios, we also are not allowed to talk to reporters. They have spokesmen on the payroll for protection FROM PERSONS LIKE YOU WHO LIKE TO MISQUOTE THE FACTS. And yes you have been found guillty of this on more than one occasion.
TIM A

[edblysard]

Quote me the rule, the number and page from the GCOR that says I cant talk to reporters. I talk to my cousin all the time, he is a reporter for the Houston Chronicle.
What rule in the Gcor?
Now, if you mean my employeer may, in their timetable and their general rules, prohibit me from discussing a accident, well, a judge may also prohibit you from discussing a case while the case is ongoing, beyond that, no one can forbid me from speaking to whomever I chose.
The Unihead Ed

[wabash1]

Tim

If the train is blocking the crossing the crew will get a ticket. it is who ever goes down to take it from the cop is who gets it. and then the company pays.the fine.. its like a parking ticket only cost more. if you are in yard limits the yard master is the guy who is telling you what to do out on the road its the dispatcher and from there its the crews job to make sure crossing are not blocked.


missouri as ussual you have things all mixed up. the legal part of the gcro is that its is rules set down from the feds and if you brake them you are fired. But i would exspect you to learn this that is the reason they made velcro for the adults who still cant tie their shoes..

[Anonymous]

Deleted due to profanity.[:(!]
-Trains.com editorial

[eolafan]

Oh Kev, are you listening? PLEASE do your homework before slamming somebody or doubting somebody who knows what in he-- they are talking about. So, please take a moment and go to www.tribune-chronicle.com and you will find the Ohio newpaper I was talking about IS VERY, VERY REAL! Oh ye of little faith and no brains.

[JoeKoh]

I checked it out Kev the story is real.politicians are playing games here in the buckeye state.
stay safe
joe

[sooblue]

Dah!!
Anyone can write anything on any subject. It doesn't mean it's correct.
REMEMBER this is Missiouris' subject.
If it's true They had it wrong, They should have given Him an award for PREVENTING a grade crossing accident.
By tieing up those crossings he saved at least 25 lives maybe 40!!
The Bushman needs to give him a medal and stand him up infront of congress at the next state of the union address.
Sooblue

[Anonymous]

Exactly so the motto is...

Everyone in this world has the right to remain silent otherwise you will be misquoted by missouri, and that will be used aginst you!

I would love to know what the ACTUALL Quote is.. instead of the missouri version!