RemoteControls and Dangerous Crossings

[Anonymous]

A common thread indeed!!!! PROFIT PROFIT AND MORE PROFIT!!!! Maybe the Union can look at the WHOLE picture and where they stand in it(unemployment line for the blueshirts!!). What does a "professional" engineer do when replaced by a remote control? Surely not complain that the railroad isn't concerned for safety!?

[Anonymous]

http://66.220.130.210/cgi-bin/LiveIQue.acgi$rec=103318?news
There's 80 MPH Amtrak trains whacking people at blind railroad crossings all over the country which the crossings are guarded by two band aids on a stick called cross-bucks. Why in Sherman Texas does BNSF have two sets of gates on Odneal St. for snail track speeds of 10 mph and 2 trains a day and 20 mph with 7 trains a day when there has NEVER been a death or injury reported at these two crossings? Is the railroad useing remote controled trains there? No wonder BNSF killed 68 people at crossings last year. The equipment is in the wrong place.

At 10 mph the train is going about 15 feet per second. A driver going around a gate isn't looking for Baskin Robbins. A train is 12 feet wide and if the vehicle is 12 feet long that's 24 feet to clear the kill zone of the train. At 20 mph the vehicle travels 29 feet or about .8 seconds to clear the kill zone. I think if you ask the two young men the gates never came down and they never seen or heard the train comeing because something was sitting there in the sight vision and the gate didn't activate. http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/TA/ProgMgt/Grants/Sight_Eng.pdf


Highway deaths were 1 about every 67 million miles traveled last year.
2002 TOTALS for the major railroads. These 5 accounted for 739 of the 951
total reported deaths last year. 78%.

Amtrak-- 39,652,480 train miles... Killed 124--- 41 at crossings---1 person
killed every 319,778 miles traveled.
BNSF--161,813,974 train miles... Killed 148---68 at crossings---1 person
killed every 1,093,338 miles traveled.
CSX----109,901,185 train miles... Killed 120--- 39 at crossings---1 person
killed every 915,843 miles traveled.
NS------ 92,214,833 train miles... Killed ---126---58 at crossings--1person
killed every 731,863 miles traveled.
UP------186,750,216 train miles... Killed---221---69 at crossings---1 person
killed every 845,024 miles traveled


=====Accident 8 ===== RR report TU3 ===== Crossing ID 672067L ===== On Jan 03, 1981 a FREIGHT TRAIN operated by Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp. [BNSF] hit a CAR at approximately 2:25PM in Texas in GRAYSON county on ODNEAL STREET road. The incident occurred in/near SHERMAN city. The rail equipment was reported to have been traveling at 015 Mph with 3 locomotive(s) and 59 cars(s). The CAR had been traveling in a weste rnly direction at 005 Mph. The railroad was operating on main line track over a public road crossing. It was clear, during the day and the tempera ture was 50. There were no reported deaths or injuries. The highway user was moving on the crossing and was reported to have not stopped. There were 2 occupant(s) in the vehicle. The view of the track was not obstructed. Hazardous mat erial was not being transported by rail or highway vehicle. The crossing was protected by: Crossbucks

=====Accident 42 ===== RR report TU585 ===== Crossing ID 672067L ===== On Nov 13, 1981 a YARD/SWITCHING CONSIST operated by Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp. [BNSF] hit a CAR at approximatel y 5:25PM in Texas in GRAYSON county on 800 SO EAST ST road. The incident occurred in/near SHERMAN city. The rail equi pment was reported to have been traveling at 010 Mph with 1 locomotive(s) and 12 cars(s). The CAR had been traveling in a southernly direction. The railroad was operating on main line track over a public road crossing. It was clear, at dusk and the temperature wa s 50. There were no reported deaths or injuries. The highway user was stopped on the crossing and was reported to hav e stopped on crossing. There were 1 occupant(s) in the vehicle. The view of the track was not obstructed. Hazardous m aterial was not being transported by rail or highway vehicle. The crossing was protected by: Crossbucks

=====Accident 10 ===== RR report TU119 ===== Crossing ID 672067L ===== On May 04, 1984 a YARD/SWITCHING CONSIST operated by Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp. [BNSF] hit a TRUCK at approximat ely 11:10AM in Texas in GRAYSON county on ODNEAL ST road. The incident occurred in/near SHERMAN city. The rail equipme nt was reported to have been traveling at 010 Mph with 1 locomotive(s) and 3 cars(s). The TRUCK had been traveling i n an easternly direction at 010 Mph. The railroad was operating on main line track over a public road crossing. It was clear, during the day and the tempera ture was 70. There were no reported deaths or injuries. The highway user was moving on the crossing and was reported to have not stopped. There were 1 occupant(s) in the vehicle. The view of the track was not obstructed. Hazardous mat erial was not being transported by rail or highway vehicle. The crossing was protected by: Crossbucks

=====Accident 43 ===== RR report FW0097 ===== Crossing ID 765392S ===== On Jan 27, 1991 a FREIGHT TRAIN operated by Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp. [BNSF] hit a CAR at approximately 12:45AM in Texas in GRAYSON county on ONEAL STREET road. The incident occurred in/near SHERMAN city. The rail equipment was r eported to have been traveling at 010 Mph with 3 locomotive(s) and 49 cars(s). The CAR had been traveling in an easte rnly direction at 030 Mph. The railroad was operating on main line track over a public road crossing. It was clear, at night and the temperature w as 40. There were no reported deaths or injuries. The highway user was moving on the crossing and was reported to hav e not stopped. There were 2 occupant(s) in the vehicle. The view of the track was not obstructed. Hazardous material was not being transported by rail or highway vehicle. The crossing was protected by: Crossbucks, Stop signs

=====Accident 29 ===== RR report FW0437 ===== Crossing ID 672067L ===== On Nov 18, 1993 a FREIGHT TRAIN operated by Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp. [BNSF] hit a TRUCK at approximately 8:21 AM in Texas in GRAYSON county on E. ODNEAL road. The incident occurred in/near SHERMAN city. The rail equipment was re ported to have been traveling at 010 Mph with 2 locomotive(s) and 54 cars(s). The TRUCK had been traveling in a weste rnly direction at 025 Mph. The railroad was operating on main line track over a public road crossing. It was clear, during the day and the tempera ture was 57. There were no reported deaths or injuries. The highway user was moving on the crossing and was reported to have not stopped. There were 1 occupant(s) in the vehicle. The view of the track was not obstructed. The railroad was transporting hazardous material. The crossing was protected by: Crossbucks

[Anonymous]

What is the issue Safety or Jobs?
Remote Control: A battle in which we must be victorious

Dear Editor:

I've been reading with great interest the articles in the Locomotive Engineers Journal (Summer 2000, page 13) concerning the battle between the carriers and the BLE over remotely operated locomotives. I am very pleased to see the BLE taking a firm stand against their implementation into the national network of railroads.

I worked for a number of years with similar units at the LTV Steel mine in Hoyt Lakes, Minn. Although there was never a fatality at the mine, due to remote operation, there were numerous close calls that would curl your hair. The only reason there was never a fatality or
serious injury was due to the quick action by the rails involved or pure, dumb LTV luck.

This is a fight that needs to be won.

Mark A. Roue
BLE Division 768
Thief River Falls, Minn.

[Anonymous]

There are working with OLI!!! Good one!!! Kind of like if we worked with the Germans in WWII to prevent to prevent the death of millions of Jewish people. How effective would that be. Contact your union and remind them the OLI is run by the railroad. They address one issue the DRIVER, unfortunately there are TWO issues: DRIVER AND RAILROAD. They are concerned about safety right? I realize your profit sharing checks may go up if you can close the crossings instead of making them safe. It always come back to money or safety.


Railroad labor unions target unsafe grade crossings
CLEVELAND, March 25 -- In the wake of the recent Amtrak accident in Illinois that claimed 11 lives, the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen and United Transportation Union are joining together to spearhead a national campaign to identify unsafe railroad grade crossings.

To build a national database of unsafe railroad crossings, the unions are asking their members and the general public to report problems to a special task force. The Brotherhoods are also reaching out for help to Operation Lifesaver, a rail safety organization that has made highway-rail grade crossing safety its mission.

Union members and others are encouraged to report unsafe railroad grade crossings to a toll-free telephone hotline at [phone], or via e-mail to either "[e-mail],"[e-mail]," or "[e-mail]." Reports and photographs also may be sent to the Rail Crossing Task Force, United Transportation Union, 14600 Detroit Ave., Cleveland, OH 44107-4207.

According to Clarence Monin, president of the BLE, motorists dodging closed highway-rail crossing gates and narrowly missing collision with trains is a big problem for train crews.

"There are 100 near misses for every one collision at America's grade crossings," Monin said. "The railroad companies and government agencies don't keep statistics on these incidents, but it's a perpetual problem for locomotive engineers. We hope to eliminate near misses and actual collisions through this campaign."

"The unions have joined together to save lives and improve the safety of every American who works on or crosses railroad tracks," Little said. "We intend to compile this information and let the political leadership in every state and in Washington know where the problem spots are located. We need to try and solve this problem before we have more accidents like the recent Amtrak crash, which claimed the lives of 11 innocent people."

The unions said the complete list of unsafe rail grade crossings would be made available to the public on their websites, (www.ble.org, www.brs.org, www.utu.org) when it is completed.

"The members of our unions know what is safe and what is an accident waiting to happen," Little said. "Together, we can make a difference and cut through the red tape and find quick and sound solutions to these problems."

The unions are also calling on the Federal Railroad Administration to step up efforts to design and test crossing safety systems that are more difficult to circumvent, such as four-way gates at railroad crossings.

"The BRS is very proud to join the BLE and UTU in an effort to identify the nation's unsafe railroad grade crossings," said BRS International President W.D. "Dan" Pickett. "If this country is sincere in stopping deaths at railroad crossings, they will begin installing four-quadrant gates immediately.

"With the technology available today, and with using the four-quadrant gates, accidents at crossings could almost be eliminated," Pickett said. "The decision has to be made that will force the motoring public to wait for trains at crossings. It is a proven fact that motorists will wait when four-quadrant gates are installed."

There are more than 260,000 grade-level railroad crossings in the country, but only about 62,000 are equipped with active warning systems such as gates, lights, or bells.

Efforts by the federal government to provide millions of dollars to states to improve crossings, coupled with an ongoing campaign to close grade-level crossings, and regulations mandating ditch lights on locomotives are paying off. Last year there were 422 deaths at grade crossings, down 33 percent from five years ago.

Of all the reportable accidents, 183, or 74 percent, were attributable to motor vehicle operator inattention or impatience. Of those accidents, 114 occurred at crossings with active warning devices.

That same year, 50 people died in collisions with Amtrak trains a highway-rail intersections. Amtrak trains struck and killed 69 other people who were trespassing on an Amtrak rail line.

Texas had the deadliest record of any state between 1991 and 1998 with 380 deaths at railroad grade crossings, according to the FRA. Illinois was second with 288 deaths.

[Anonymous]

*yawns*

[cabforward]

what did the baby elephant say when he saw a naked man for the first time?






how could anybody breathe thru soemthing that small!!

[wabash1]

to be truthful i didnt read all the jiberish you and missouri posted here but ill answer this one for you. the engineer goes to the ground and runs the remote and the conductor hits the railroad unemployment board. and the public never sees this as we have are own retirement and unemployment. so you will never know .

[Anonymous]

O.K. Mike, now you are on to something that I will back you on.......Remotes are dangerous! I am remote qualified and I would rather see a Hogger at the throttle. Use your tenacity for causes on something that can be avoided by having a highly trained engineer at the controls. Hazmat, crossings....remotes are not safe.....period! Much less the thought of me getting my legs cut off by one.
Ken

[Anonymous]

Yep, J. You ol heads will be runnin that garbage and I will be back to welding or flippin burgers. It sucks for both of us. Right now the new hires are the ones being forced to the remote. Right outta class!????? Yeah, that is safe. Guys that are still learning how to switch at the controls. Great! Mike and Missouri, jump on the remotes. It is a big deal!
Ken.....BLE member and proud!

[petitnj]

Since I inflamed the readers before I suppose I will get back in the discussion. What is the issue here? Is it that remote control locomotives would be dangerous over grade crossings? Or is it that dangerous grade crossings should be eliminated?

Both are certainly true, but aren't they separate issues? Does a remote controlled train movement make a grade crossing more dangerous? As I have said before I suspect that if drivers know that the locomotive is remote controlled they will be more careful about crossing the tracks.

[Mookie]

Noel, you were traveling along pretty well until you hit that last sentence.

As an old friend used to tell me "Think About It"!

Jen

[petitnj]

And your point is? Do you carry metal ladders around the power lines? Do you get out of your car on the freeway if you see a cat crossing the road? We do learn that some acts are too dangerous to attempt.

That isn't the case with grade crossings. Drivers feel that the train will react if they don't make it -- just like motorcyclists who roar up from behind and sit in your blind spot. They assume the car will stay out of their way.

[Mookie]

We are on the same page now - but what I was saying was that whether it is a remote (which scares the bejeebers out of me) or if it is just a normal train - it won't make a whole lot of difference to a lot of our astute public. They are going to challenge a train regardless.

So we do agree in principal.

Jen

[Anonymous]

The point is!! Does he set his own speed limits? Have the speed limit control people bought off? Have a railroad completely void of safety equipment? Ride stick horse train engines with ED?

[Anonymous]

Why do railroad companies keep the doors on boxcars shut when traveling through the State of Missouri?

Answer: So famlies don't move in.

TIM A

[wabash1]

you wont accept defeat or listen to the truth, which is fine by me i will keep telling the truth and putting you to shame. well to put it nicely the speed in which we shove over crossings (keey word is shoving not pulling meaning backwards missourri) is 10mph over siding or spurs into buisnesess. shoving down the main line can be as much as 20 mph. and there is a guy watching the move. and i have yet to hear of anyone getting killed doing a shove move. ( i am sure you will find one) and if you do find one i can disprove it with facts. so as ussual we win and you lose,and the railroad made another 4 billion profit.

[Anonymous]

What's the difference between an engineer falling asleep in the cab or a remote operater positioned where he can't see crossong properly? Those are what scare me. Anyways to get hit by a train you must have been on the tracks, a smart place to be.

[Mookie]

Sounds like Houston Ed hit a nerve with his profiling, Missouri. Is that why you have such a problem with him? Maybe because he is right?

I hope you are on blood pressure medicine, or you are going to blow up right here on the forum. You don't seem to want a dialog - you want to rant and make no sense. Why don't you try a different way and have a dialog with no ranting?
Is that possible in your world?

Jen

[Anonymous]

HE TYPED SOMETHING!!!

stone the band...


Detour Kev!

[Anonymous]

ladies and gentlemen, MISSOURI is a freight train himself!!

yes thats RIGHT!

he blows right through, not listneing to the voice of reason (us)... he keeps going...

He never answers any of our questions he just keeps cutting and pasting... you ask a question.. you get ignored.

Too much voice of reason.. he starts a new topic.

This is called "Freight-train" like behavior. He stops for no one, doesn't listen to anyone and will keep cutting and pasting.. people like him cannot be ignored for it will get worse.

time for some oustide opinon.. i'll get my GF sit her down.. and she can browse through his posts and tell you her outsider opinion.

Christa's take on him:

This is typical type of behaviour found in younger children.. but is not so often seen in older adults, or isn't exhibited as much as it is in this person (missouri.)

I guess missouri suffers from ADD, or ADHD, and will most likely do anyhting for attention. Negative or Posotive form.

I figure his income isn't so great (terrible) , and he hasn't much to do, or it could be the exact opposite.. he's a big shot, possibly a lawyer and has won several railroad cases before.

yet i do doubt theory number 2, i believe his loss has sparked an anger in him, that he has become an expert in his very own field "Rail-road" bashing. He will litteraly go out of his way.. to find evidence of Railroad fraud murder.. or whatever else he posts. one problem: Evidence like that is hard to find, -Sometimes even impossible with the murder aspect looming in. Yet like i said.. he knows it.. An expert in his own field doesn't need to find it, he conjures it up!

"Freight train" like behavior as kev said, can also be described as.. bull head, thick head, concrete skull or anything that describes the unwillingness to listen to "truth" or anything that contradicts his point of view even slightly.

those are some of my notes on this character, missouri.

Peace,
Kev and Christa :)