QUESTION FOR A PROFESSIONAL RAILROADER

[tree68]

Hmmm... Thought it was odd to see "Missouri" on a post, but didn't check the date...

[wabash1]

someone brings back a post that is over a year old and the new guys jump all over the guys that have been thru the M&M saga. then these new guys ( rail fans) wonder why they get no respect in the field by us railroaders. and further more, why people like me wont give them the time of day out in the field. and turn them in when they get in the way of operations ( switching moves) instead of letting us get done before we invite them up on the engine. and getting back to the crossing issue mike and missourri wants a device made that will let the public know how many sec it will be before the train gets to the crossing. so they can determine if they can beat the train. I for one ( and maybe some other railroaders here) when going somewhere dont want to be stopped by a train i want to get where i am going and do what i want to do. but i am not going to take a chance on getting killed just to get there. i will stop and watch the train as i do everyday and get there a few minutes later..... alive . but as long as we have idiots out there we will always hold people up at crossings waiting on the meat wagon to take the bodies away of the guys and girls who didnt beat the train. I get paid for 12 hrs to sit at the controll stand it dont matter to me if i do it getting into the yard or 1700ft past the point of impact at a crossing. you choose.

[Anonymous]

DUHHH!

[daveklepper]

Hay guys, can we can the personal invective, please, and just stick to the technical issues? We all love trains, and we all have common enemies who don't. Most of the technical answers seem correct to me. There are various classes of track and on some of the worst, top speed can be limited to as little as 4 miles per hour (walking speed) with the poorest Government classificiation 10 mph. Then there are the intermodel high speed trains and the Tropicana Juice train that do go 79mph where the track is appropriate. If anyone knows of regular freight operations faster than 79mph, it would be news to me. But I do go back to that experience I had in the obs car of the Silver Meteor, about 1961, going north from Jacksonville where we were doing an even 100 on track that the timetable said was limited ot 79. Dave

[AntonioFP45]

Wow! Some of you gave him some good answers, but I was surprised at some of the "flaming". Apparently Jeremy might not have been aware that his question "dug up" some apparent past animosities.

Hope it's behind us.

Jeremy, just for your info here in Florida "open country areas" most "hot shot" freights run at 60mph (though I've seen some engineers "push it closer to 70!)". Amtrak is limited to 79mph.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF9838

Does everyone have to be rude all the time?

Huh???????[%-)]

[Anonymous]

Does everyone have to be rude all the time?
Anyway.....The speed Limit for Eastbound & Westbound trains Into & out side of blair is 60 to 70mph.In town it is greatly reduced to 45m.p.h.BNSFfan.

[tree68]

One reason engineers must be familiar with their territories is because there is no "one" speed limit. All of the factors mentioned in the above posts may be included in a section of track, meaning that what is mostly a 60 mph section of track may have stretches of lower speeds (ie, for curves, urban areas, etc). Factor in slow orders for maintenance or bad track. If you can find an employees timetable, you will likely see the "permanent" restrictions for the line(s) covered.

Applying that to a model railroad makes operation interesting. Even though you can't tell exactly how fast your model is actually moving, the fact that you can't "set and forget" the throttle will add some realism to your session.

[Anonymous]

JeremyB--

Here's another rule of thumb that might be helpful. For crossovers and switches, take the frog number (i.e., #6, #9, etc.) and multiply it by 2--that's the max speed through it. So a powered #16 on a main line siding would be good for about 30 mph but a #11would be good for only about 20, assuming they are lined and tamped and in acceptable cross-level. Now on a model, you'll have to cheat a little because the curves are tighter and the frog number's lower than on the prototype. But then, think about it, a mile is a difficult thing to model in HO (5280'/87) and only a little bit easier in N. So don't worry, be happy!

I notice you are from CA but don't say where. CalTrans has taken an aggressive position regarding protection of crossings on main lines, with full closure gates and islands on many main and some secondary tracks where they can't eliminate the crossing altogether. Don't expect to see any trains slow down for these, as that's why they were installed-just run track speed if you're on a main track. Also there are very few speed restrictions that aren't track-driven. Follow Ed's good advice and go pick up an employee timetable for the line and era you are modeling. It'll have a wealth of info in it that will help you in a lot of different areas. Or find someone who has one and who will photocopy the appropriate sections for your reference.

Remember, too, not all trains, even of the same type or class, travel at the same speed on the same track. It depends on what is happening at the time. Yard and switching: walking speed. Underpowered and overloaded--slow, Crossing over or going into a siding--slow (see above). There are also speed restrictions for freights running through passenger stations (very relevant for CA, depending on what you model). And on double track Automatic-permissive block (one way traffic on each track) with train running on the wrong track against current of traffic--30 mph max.

And as several people have pointed out--on the real RR, BEWARE, that train is likely traveling a whole lot faster that it looks to you.

Sorry you had to be subjected to the soapbox types.

Let us all know what you come up with. Good hunting.[:)]

[mvlandsw]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JeremyB

I JUST ASKED THIS QUESTION SO I COULD KNOW WHAT PROTOTYPICAL SPEEDS THAT I COULD ADD TO MY LAYOUT.NOTHING MORE........SO THANKS FOR THE HELP..

I remeber reading somewhere about a sign on a country crossing along a high speed rail line. It would be a good conversation piece on a model railroad and might make someone think about trying to beat a train. The sign said "Trains go over this crossing at up to ninety mph ------- whether you are on it or not."

[edblysard]

Kevs answer should be right up your alley.
Later gator...
Ed

[edblysard]

Your welcome,
Dont let the playground fight scare you away, you can get most of your questions answered here, so stick around.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[JeremyB]

that's okay,all i needed was some prototypical speeds that i could apply to my HO scale CN & CP Layout.talk to you later.
Jeremy

[JeremyB]

Hi Ed

I just wanted to tell you thanks.Your the only one that helps me to my questions all the time.I know that when i have a question your the one i can turn to for the right answer.so thanks again.
Jeremy

[edblysard]

Rule 10 for entering Texas.
Any references to "corn fed" when talking about our women will get you jack-slapped, by our women.
Rule 5: Every person in a pickup truck waves. It's called being friendly. Try to understand the concept.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[JoeKoh]

always hold the (forum)door open for a lady.
stay safe
joe

[Mookie]

Toronto - another lady for our group - that makes 3 of us now, that I know of. Welcome.

Gentlemen, hopefully we are going to get a better balance on this committee!

Jen

[edblysard]

Jeremy,
Do you model freelance, or a prototype?
If freelance, is it losely based on a real road? If so, try to find a timetable from that road, and that time period. Timetables have all the speed limits and restrictions for that district. Greenburs train show, and most of the model train shows have collectors who deal in timetables, for a few buck, you can get one. Or check the adds in Model Railroader, I see one guy in there all the time selling timetables.
Model Railroader had a niffty article a few years back on how to built a digital speedometer car that showed how fast, in scale MPH the model was going.
Stay Frosty, come back soon,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Jeremy
I am soooooo sorry.
I really did beraid you, and I apologize profusely. I really did mis-interpret your question. I thought you were heading down THAT path in another attempt...., well, anyways, sorry
-Toronto

[JeremyB]

I JUST ASKED THIS QUESTION SO I COULD KNOW WHAT PROTOTYPICAL SPEEDS THAT I COULD ADD TO MY LAYOUT.NOTHING MORE........SO THANKS FOR THE HELP..

[Anonymous]

why missouri did you answer, can't you read the TITLE of this topic?

defenately NOT for you!

kev.

[wabash1]

well to give the guy the speed limits he wants i wont go into storybook stuff. its like this on the railroad i work for the speed for rail highway is 60mph. for regular frieght trains its 50 mph. there is no restriction on hazmat it goes 50mph or 60 if in a container. all speed restrictions on our road is for curves only. other wise put it in 8 and ride.

[Anonymous]

sorry man i didn't know this was for your model train
Island of montreal
95 MPH Commuter CP rail
65 MPH Freight CP rail
35 MPH Freight CP(carrying propane, inoxious gas... )

CN speed values (these MAY be incorrect, i don't work for them!)

75 MPH Passenger (via rail)
70 MPH Freight C.N.R
35 MPH Freight C.N.R (carrying Gas, propane,)

those are the values for on island of Montreal, Note: once off the island.. there is no more 35 MPH. that is only in place to regulate Freight trains carrying dangerous goods near houses on the isalnd of montreal

kev.

[JoeKoh]

Jeremy
please excuse the clown.He is a rabid self- interested self centered person who wants to talk about me mem me! Ed is correct it depends on the situation.I have seen intermodals go 70 mph.Just rememeber stop look listen and live.
Any more Questions the other people in the forum will (myself included) help out as much as possible.
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

http://www.bnsf-ttc.com/bnsftime/index.html There you go Jeremy. Now you can put your mile markers out and know the track speeds. http://safetydata.fra.dot.gov/OfficeofSafety/ Take the mile markers and querry by location for the state, county, or city which are listed by mile markers in the FRA data base. Some places might be confusing because there are 20 crossings listed with the same crossing numbers like there is a 20 story crossing there or something. (Taxes and to make there look like there are 10X more crossings than there really is.)

[Anonymous]

What Edhead is saying as long as the tracks will hold up the weight and the trains don't go flying off the curves they go as fast as they want and the heqq with anything or anybody that gets in the way at crossings.

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/media/twgreport.htm#663
Supposedly gates are to be at all sight obstructed crossings with train speeds above 40 and lights at all other crossings under 40. Until the high speeds >79 mph (the FRA are idiots) then quad gates are to be used. So there are 78% of the crossings MISSING the proper crossing equipment for the rediculous train speeds the FRA has set. The Amtrak speeds are nothing about Amtrak who only owns 750 miles of track but the freight that follows the 79 mph passenger trains at 60 mph. So basically to save the railroads a few bucks on crew labor and the crews are dumb enough to become the speeding bullet through the illegally protected crossings.

[edblysard]

Jeremy,
Speed limits in open country are set by the FRA depending on the condition and maintainence of the track, roadbed and type of equipment that will use the track. Most crossing speeds within a city or town are set by compromise between the railroad and the town. Some towns dont bother to ask, and therefor the track speed thorugh the crossing often remains the same as out on the open countryside. Speed through turnouts, and crossovers is determined by the both the FRA and the railroad depending on the type of train, and what cargo it is hauling. Passenger trains are often allowed to use crossovers at a faster speeds than the freight trains, due to the design of the trucks they use. If you are looking for a number as in 60 mph, or some such, then you need to know where, as each section of track may have a different speed limit, depending on the terrain and track conditions. As for approxamate speed, in open country side with good to excellent track, 60 to 75/80 mph for intermodel, 60 for general freight, 45 for freight train with hazardous cargo. These speeds would drop, to say 40 to 50 mph in a urban setting, then down to 35/40 mph in a surburban setting, and restricted speed, ( a speed which will allow the train to stop with 1/2 the visiual distance of men, equipment fouling the track, and improperly lined switches) but not to exceed 20mph. So for a crossing out in the boonies, the train will stay at track speed, 60+, and in a crowded city, except for commuter trains, the speed would be around 20mph or less.
Any help?
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

do you agree that that's a safe conclusion to jump too?

lol

kev.

[Anonymous]

HAhahaha
Kev you jump to conclusions...
sorry, but it's MS Toronto
:)