WHAT DOES AAR MEAN?

[JeremyB]

On my models I see the letters "AAR" on my boxcars, what does that mean?and can anybody explain this further to me.
Thanks
Jeremy

[Anonymous]

Association of American Railroads. http://www.aar.org/ They are made of all the brass of the major railroads with a false front of spokespeople. They set the safety standards. Yeah right like the railroads are going to do anything that costs them a buck. They have a discussion board but it is a pay for deal. Basically the government sets out huge barrels of money for transit projects, Amtrak, etc... and they stuff their pockets.

[Anonymous]

"Yeah right like the railroads are going to do anything that costs them a buck"
- some dumb *** guy named missouri

I'll have you know CP Busts their *** on fixing crossings and making them more fail proof then ever. You on the other hand Bust your *** Complaining on here about things such as that.. i have news for you pal.. you seem so danm worried about corssings with one too many branches, or not enough money invested in crossing lights, or how trains get from A to B in a specified time, why don't you complain to the local Railroad comapny's? they ahve to have a "contact us" on their web page.

OR ahve they blocked your e-mail addy already?

Kev.

[Anonymous]

Well Kev I have but they don't know how to find it by crossing #. Like right now you can get past the brush obstructions and the idiots have changed out crossing ties stacked 20 feet high on both sides of the crossings.
THEM AB HERE Now if I had said there was like a big barrel of money waiting on them whenever they were done fixing the crossing I bet they could have found it by crossing #.
__________________

Mr. Missouri, what state is this crossing located in?

Linda Wertz
Manager, Customer Interface
Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway
817-867-6982
[e-mail]



-----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 11:05 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: FormParse: BNSF Complaint Form



The following information was posted to a form in the web area:
- referring url: BNSF Complaint Form

Posted by: Missouri
Post Date: Tue May 27 23:04:58 2003

The following are the posted form fields:

START_OF_FORM_FIELDS
Name: Missouri
Title: Shareholder
phone:
e-mail:
Recurring Problem: Yes
Category_for_Problem: Equipment
Problem_Incident: Crossing #66XXXXK where you have killed two people is sight obstructed. You have a legal duty to have the trains not sight obstructed. http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/TA/ProgMgt/Grants/Sight_Eng.pdf It's pretty simple--- either the sight requirements are at the crossings or they are not. The sight requirements are enough for a 8 to 11 mph train but the train speed is limit is 50 mph. Nothing but cold, calculated negligience on the railroads part.

What kind of traffic engineering degree does this track master have to be putting signs in at private crossings? It's very apparent he doesn't have a degree or BNSF is very phony on it's safety policy.

ContactCustomer?: Yes
END_OF_FORM_FIELDS

[cabforward]

i, and everyone else who contributes to this forum, know your feelings about the people who write to this forum expressing unpopular or ludicrous views.. still, it is their right to do so..

there is no policy on this forum against saying stupid or unpopular things..

we have all been thru the wringer with the crossing gates, the foliage at grade, accident liability, the caring of r.r. mgmt and the heroics of r.r. employees..

we get it, and this sort of thing is getting old and too much like summer re-runs on tv..

you should consider toning down your rage and your hostility.. it doesn't change anything, least of the guy you're raging at.. we have made up our minds as to where we stand, on both sides of all the 'hot-button' issues already expressed here..

what if you were to just 'chill' for the summer? what if you calmed down and said, '[bleep] those people, i'm not saying anything else to them..' dont waste your time giving them a piece of your mind, they wouldn't know what to do with it..

instead, why not start a new topic, say something constructive and sound 'up'
once in a while?

[JoeKoh]

shareholder?
are you an actual shareholder?So your not concerned so much for safety but for your own interests($$$)wow those splinters must have got up pretty far.And you say the railroads are greedy.
look listen and live
joe

[Anonymous]

Yeah I bought half a dozen shares BNSF stock for a couple 200 bucks 4 years ago and they've probably 50 bucks in value now. The stock itself really sucks yet the directors are paying themselves millions in salaries and stock options. http://biz.yahoo.com/t/b/bni.html Takeing out millions in insider tradeing (legal)What you need to make a shareholder proposal is a share of stock. Like mine was for BNSF to install gates at all crossings. They then have to turn around and shoot down your shareholder proposal through the securitys exchange commission or put it up for vote which BNSF did because they could care less on how many people they kill as long as the costs doesn't exceed the savings on poor maintenance.

Like you JoeKOH, if you had one share of stock could make a shareholder proposal to have yourself crowned KING of railroad hobbyists and have all the directors of the railroad kiss your shoes and they have to put it on the ballot or shut it down. Let me know and I'll show you how to make a shareholder proposal?

Like with one share of stock you can go to the shareholders meetings. Union Pacific only had like 75 people at their shareholder meeting in Omaha a while back. I think it would be neat to get like a biker gang all 1 share of stock in their own names to cra***he directors party.

[edblysard]

He's a shareholder,? You mean he had made money off of the killing machines? Just belly up to the pork barrel, linning his pockets with all that big business/big goverment money?
Can you spell hypocrite?
What a sneaky little two faced twerp.

[edblysard]

And the truth shall set you free.
Now we know what's up, he is nothing but a shareholder/ robber baron who didnt get what he wanted, and like all spoiled little kids, he pitched a fit.
Treat him just like you would a spoiled rotten little child, Kev, just ignore him, he will say anything to get attention.

[cabforward]

excuse me,

i'm not takng anyone's side, i just have a few qestions..

miss. has written a letter where he checked off a category for 'shareholder'.. he never said he was a shareholder.. maybe it was it was the only way to get a comment posted..

okay.. he has made some accusations against r.r. about different things, and it upset some people..

if he is a shareholder, and i'm not saying he is, so what? who better to complain about r.r. behavior than a company stockholder?

who is more likely to be heard and taken seriously, just anyody who writes a letter about crossing safety, or someone who has stock in the co.?

it seems to me you guys have damned miss. if he does, and damned him if he doesn't..

you gripe at him for his opinions on r.r. issues, wihout knowing anything about him personally.. then, you gripe at him because he owns stock in a r.r. about which he is complaining..

can't have it both ways, guys.. if he chose shareholder in his email, it seems like he would have stated it in his text, also .. anyway, he put his money in this particular industry, and he has spoken out on issues that have become controversial in this forum..

who has a better right? who should be more responsive to safety issues than shareholders? if miss. is a shareholder, you should have more respect for him.. his money is helping to build this r.r. and keep it running..

does anybody in this forum work for bnsf? if so, would yo prefer that miss. sell his stock along with other stockholders (shareholders)? this will depress the value further, requiring the r.r. to pay higher interest to borrow money.. this causes improvements, such as safety eqpt. to be deferred until the stock rises in value and the interest on bnsf loans lowers.. but of course, if everybody has such contempt for miss. owning r.r. stock, maybe miss. and other shareholders should sell their stock.. that's the only way to get peace & quiet in this forum..

notice he has not said anything about the value of his stock.. reason? either it doesn't concern him, or he has no shares in the co..

i don't know which is more likely, but it seems truly ridiculous to mock him for buying or owning r.r. stock.. either way, getting red in the face isn't going to change anything.. save yourself the stress and time of griping and move on.. talk about something positive for a change?

[JoeKoh]

Amen Ed!
He is out for his own gain.I will try to help with any questiions here and lookout for the guys and gals who run the oldB&o line here too.Matt grab your diaper bag were going to the park!
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

Yes he positively said he was a shareholder. That's nice. i neevr buy shares in things i hate...

take this for EXAMPLE

Oh look at me.. i'll pretend to be missouri...

i cna't Stand CN rail, but i'll buy ninety-five thousand shares from them and get rich of the very people i hate, and talk about them behind their back on fourms such as this complaing about one G&D Da^n leaf to many on branches, then i leave the Trains fotum, check my investing statement and relize i jsut made 50,000 bucks of the very comapny i just Bit**ed about behind their backs.

if that isn't so screwed up, i don't know what is.

kev.

[edblysard]

No excuse needed, this is a open forum.
But he did say he bought 6 shares of Bnsf stock four years ago for $200.00, and said they maybe worth $50.00 now. Either way, he has accused railroads of profiting off of the deaths of others, and accused railroaders of intentionaly killing people at crossings for profit, and accused us, myself in paticular, of wanting to kill people and of not caring when it happened.
Now, I doubt anyone else on this forum would have assumed six shares of stock would somehow allow them to send e-mails to the board of directors demanding change, (see the example he provided of his very polite e-mail letter to BNSF) and expect the value of your six share investement to influnce or sway company policy.
He seems to have a gripe about one certain crossing, a blind crossing with the sight blocked by a building, yet now it is a pile of ties at a different crossing.
Had he not started with the insults, both in general and in paticular, he would have gotten a lot better response from us all.
I dont condemn him for owning stock in a railroad, I do. UP, BNSF and KCS, along with IBM, Six Flags and NBC, ABC and CBS to name a few.
But let me ask you a question. Would you start off a letter or request to someone, asking for their help in resolving a problem, by insulting both the person and the company they work for?
Now, had he written posting that started off with, "hi guys, I have a problem with a crossing at***** and I have tried to get this problem resolved with BNSF, but no luck. Could you guys tell me what I need to do to get this problem fixed?"
I guarantee you the level and quality of the responses he wold have gotten would have astounded you, and the odds are we would have found a way to fix the problem. Dont doubt for a minute that one or more of the BNSF employees who post here wouldnt have called the division super in a heartbeat, if approached correctly, about the pile of ties he seems to now want removed. When a crew calls in to complain about a crossing, it usually gets resolved.
But instead of a measured, calm, clear and polite request for our help, he started off condeming us as profit seeking killers.
And we should respond to that with, "Thanks for insulting BNSF, how may I help you?"
Note he started the insults, from the get go, we just responded. Its some how is ok for him to call me a (blank on purpose), but I souldnt say anything unpleasent to him? He used vile and childish words and language, skirted close to profanity, yet I refrained from that, and instead returned the insults in clear, concise, every day words lacking in profanity, lacking in the childish verbage, and still gettng my view of his insults and condemnation of railroads and railroaders across with out one "cuss word".
Quite a few others expressed their feelings towards his posting, which even you must acknowledge lack a reasonable civil and polite content. They responded in kind, and in style to him, in the same manner he started this whole thing off.
Unihead(although I do like that one, and followed your advice, and made a joke of it),and quite a large repertoire of other base and crude insults seemed to be the only coherent part of any of his postings.
And no, I dont care if he owns stock, but remember, he called the stockerholders robber barrons, bloodsuckers and other fun names, but by buying stock, didnt he add to the coffers of the very people he preports to hate? If his stock didnt do well, so what, he claims to have bought it to gain access to the board, so why dosnt he sell it, even at a loss, to clense his hands of the "blood money"? My bet is he wants to profit off of it, but six shares wont let him retire anytime soon.
Dont ask me to pity or try to understand him, after all of his crud, I truly could care less about him. But I do care about the rest of the poster here, and suggested a "deal" to get as many as I could to no longed respond to him. You suggested the same thing.
Cool with me, and I have followed both of ours advice, I dont respond to him. No, I dont condemn him for his views, they are his and his alone, but all of us are allowed to hold viewpoints contrary to others. But your not allowed to shove them down others throats, or insult others freely, he chose to challenge railroaders, on their own turff, on a subject we deal with on a daily basis. Not a bright or brave thing to do, most certainly not smart to insult someone before you ask them for help. Which, by the way, he never asked for. Have yet to find in any of his postings where he ask us to help him solve a problem, in fact, I read nothing but name calling and insults, murderer and other such garbage.
So, I dont need to condemn him, in fact, sad as it may strike you, he condemed himself with his rabid attacks on a forum designed for entertainment and information, not verbal war. He picked the fight and lost. He dosnt like being insulted?, well too sad, so bad. Maybe next time, if he acts like a adult, we will treat him like one.
I, for one, am done with him and mike. Neither one of them, or their hate railroads programs are worth any more time.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Hi Kev,
Not by a long shot do I want to tell you what to do, but lets just give it a rest for now, OK? It just isnt worth your time, my time, or anyone elses time. You dont have to prove to any of us who or what your are, and I doubt this missouri cares to learn a thing. He is rabid, so leave him alone. And you did "get on the BBQ train" so to speak, so lets just get back to railroading, and leave the playground fighting to the playground bullies, the M&M twins.
Stay Frosty, and see you on the train,
Ed

[Anonymous]

i jeep gettin entangled in his web.. OKAY.. thats it no more replies to him.

[edblysard]

Cool choice. And heres the really sad part. This paticular post was "what does AAR mean?", yet it quickly was turned back into the m&m show. Sad.
Well, to answer the question, AAR stands for the Association of American Railroads, a railroad sponsered lobby group, funded by and staffed by railroads to further their business agenda, to establish guidlines, along with the FRA, they helped form the GCOR, general code of operating rules. Similar to the Cattle Raisers Association, or the Wheat Growers organization, they have PACs, political action committies, and lobby the goverment for the railroads. They also help establish standards for all railroads to follow, and help write some of the rules and regulations we follow. Like most trade groups, they are the voice of the industry.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Jeremy,
The AAR on your boxcar stands for, or indicates it is boxcar that follows a AAR standard design. One of the other things the AAR did was to adopt standard designs for rolling stock, and some locomotives. The AAR also adopted a basic set of dimensions for height and width for railcars. These demensions are the plate C, plate D and E & F markings you will also see on some cars. The plate referred to is a set of builders plates, or blueprints and elevations the railroads followed when manufacturing their cars, set forth by the AAR.
Your boxcar closely follows a standard design, with parts like the roof panel, doors and hand holds, ends panels and brake rigging standardized, so you didnt have to keep a large inventory of different parts on hand to repair a damaged car. Many railroads adopted the AAR designs, because it kept their cost down. As car manufacturing left the railroad owned shops, and railroads stoped designing and building their own cars, the AAR designation was no longer applied.
The plate markings, however, are still used. It allows you to know at a glance if a car will pass close clearance obstructions, bridges and such. You will see the plate code on all covered hoppers, most are plate C, X feet wide and X feet tall. Plate E is found on most coal and flat cars, they are wider than covered hoppers by a few inches.
And your boxcar would almost have to belong to a pre 1970s consist, by then most of the AAR design cars were gone.
Hope this helps,
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[cabforward]

jeremy said his models had 'aar'.. why would a model have this?

also, why are there different codes for different areas of the country? (gcor and one for the northeast) what are differences? are they trivial, or can they be seen when visiting freight yards, guarded crossings, etc.?

[JeremyB]

actually it says AAR on the box,it's a atheran model.

[edblysard]

Not real sure it would have said AAr on the boxcar proper, but it may appear on the repair or service stencil as a way of informing car repair men at a glance what they were dealing with.
The GCOR is universal, but each railroad also has it's own set of rules, and a timetable that sets out specific practices for that paticular railroad.
An example would be the gcor states that "a sufficent number of hand brakes must be applied to a standing cut of car(s) to prevent movement.
It dosnt list a specific number of brakes, because each circumstance is different. But at BNSF's south yard, they almost never tie more than one brake on a huge number of cars, due to the fact that the yard is flat, their choice. Where I work, we have a rule that states that all cars in a yard track must be coupled and secured at both ends before a crew may leave the area, to prevent rollouts, our choice. The carriers rule book is a supplement to the GCOR, and it takes into consideration special conditions like those mentiones above. Follwing that, each railroad also has its own set of safety rules, most of the time more restrictive than thoses set forth in the GCOR.
Any help?
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[cabforward]

yes, much help.. but jeremy was referring to a model car, not te full-size thing..

i get that gcor is universal, but i had read that in other areas, (northeast corridor) they have a different set of rules, and they use a set of initials, like gcor, to refer to it..

maybe this is a supplement to the gcor.. it just didn't strike me that it was a sub-set of the gcor..

[edblysard]

You'd have to get someone who works for Amtrak to get the whole scoop, its their track and rules there, but let me check something,.....well Amtrak western division peninsula commute service and Amtrak, Chicago hub, along with Amtrak NOUPT all adopted the GCOR, 4th edition, april 2, 2000, but I am sure they have a set of their own rules, maybe a Amtrak employee can help you out?
Glad I was of some service.
And rule 10 for entering Texas: We open doors for women. That applies to everyone regardless of age.
more as needed
Ed

[Mookie]

I love that rule!

Jen

[cabforward]

what is noupt? that wouldn't refer to a town down south, would it?

[edblysard]

Have no idea, was reading that from the index page of theGCOR, listing railroads that have adopted the GCOR.
show as
Amtrak-NOUPT...hope we get a Amtraker to explain.
Ed