railroad viaducts

[BR60103]

Incident in Britain recently: Steam loco on excursion ran into a bridge. They'd reballasted the track and raised it 6" without changing the published clearances. Took of the stack and whistle; possibly the dome and a bit of cab.
Course, they're totally disorganised now.
--David

[Anonymous]

Why do some writers in this thread object to designing the highway correctly in the first place. Face it! People goof from time to time; and that sometimes results in accidents, injuries and death.

But if the highway was designed right in the first place, the opportunity to screw up wouldn't even exist where avoidable hazards have been removed. There wouldn't be any arguing over fault if the accident couldn't happen in the first place. And don't forget that there are a lot more highway hazards than just at railroad crossings. All are a threat to public safety.

And yes, our politicians do over-ride proper engineering by allowing too high, too wide, too long, too heavy - TOO BIG trucks on the road, without first beefing up the highways. Now if it costs too much to beef up the roads to a higher standard, then DON'T BEEF UP THE TRUCKS!

If we are not going to hold highway designers and politicians accountable, why is the professional railway designer still held accountable. If he leaves an un-mitigated hazard, his P.E. license is in jeopardy. His licence can be challenged anytime someone gets hurt because of his negligence, and in egregious cases, time in jail results. To protect themselves, railway designers, like all scientists, always submit to peer review, hoping to catch hazards before they hurt anyone.

So why not the highway designer as well! As usual, there is a double standard. Railroad people get screwed while the highway designers go scott free.

Even if us railroaders like to look down on truckers, they make no more mistakes than we do, but their mistakes are far more likely to result in an accident. Most of our human errors are protected against by a thick layer of procedure, failsafe equipment, and a very safety conscious work culure. Yes there is room for improvement, but while we take all this for granted most of the time, the trucker has no such protection at all.

The relative accident rates and causal studies between trucks and railroads clearly support the assertion that any trucker error is far more likely to result in accident.

I still say, put the lion's share of blame squarely where the hazard started, with the highway designers and politicians, and not on the little guy that haplessly falls into their traps - as long as he stays on scene and was not willfully negligent that is.

RmC

[csxns]

I remember that when the superliners were sent to the nearest yard lawyers were trying to get near them to take photos where they can sue.One lawyer said what a way to die people traped in a car under water.And it wasnt Amtrak or CSX at falut.Some lawyers.SUX.

[Jackflash]

Sunset didnt go off a bridge in Louisiana,
the event happened in Alabama, near Mobile.

[csxns]

Archer ave in Chicago has a lot.

[Soo2610]

Really? Illinois they don't.

[csxns]

Not in NC.

[Soo2610]

Did you ever notice that they don't normally pave under the overpasses just so the posted clearances don't change.

[csxengineer98]

that maybe ture..but i have never seen any road crew put down more then say 2" to 3" of blacktop... if the truck is going to hit with just that little bit of a margin..i think it might have been to big in the first place....

[csxns]

They do pave the road and they dont change the signs.So a truck driver is not at fault.

[csxengineer98]

if an engineer hits a low overpass with part of the train.... more then likey the blame is on someone that planed that cars routing... we do get profiles on the trains cars..and if a "high/wide" car is flagged... we do look to see if it will clear any known close clerances on the run...but if the car was show as going to fit..and it dont...their is no way for the engineer to know untill its to late.... cars that arent going to clear the lowest clearnce point on that route are not to be routed their in the first place... but it happens... very rare but it happens... as for the truck drivers that do it... they didnt read their paper work...the truck driver is to know how high his truck is from road to the top of the highest point... i have seen what a bridge will do to a truck... if the guy can get it all the way under and out the other side.....he was flying and should get a speeding ticket too... i have seen a tri-axel dump truck that didnt put his dump all the way down..and he hit a highway overpass...took the dump right off the back... but to get back to my point... crap happens...

[csxengineer98]

rmc.
can you tell me this...who the H$LL a truck driver got a CDL WITHOUT KNOWING HOW TO READ!!!!!!!! that is a very scary thought in itself... someone driving the biggest vehicles on the highway system that cant read road signes...
how do they do thier job..they would have no idea how to read a map to find out where they are to go... read warning and exit signs.... not to metion just filling out the log book..and god forbid they are carring Hazmat... they wouldnt know it even if they had it...couldnt be able to read the shipping invoice for the carrgo being halled... very scary thougths all of them...
oh by the way... if you want things fixed that are like that know...hows about we start with your paychecks.... im getting sick and tried of paying taxes and haveing them used to "fix" things that if you and any common sence at all..dont need fixed...
csx engineer

[dknelson]

Before we go picking on truckers who are hardworking men and women under intense pressure to deliver on time and are willing to take some chances -- don't forget that plenty of engineers have run their trains under a restricted overpass or bridge with bad results for the high loads - not to mention the bridges themselves.
By the way one big problem is that a bridge can be knocked out of alignment by a truck or barge but if the rails are not broken then the electrical circuits will continue to show high green. That is why it is so important for the trucker or barge operator to promptly notify the authorities.

Dave Nelson

[JoeKoh]

Hi
Thanks for your comments.My workplace the city the state the feds and norfolk southern did change a grade crossing to a viaduct and actually all worked together. It took awhile but the semis can get through no problem.they want truckers to take that route instead of going through town.Defiance has a truck route posted but I still don't know why trucks decide to go
under the viaducts,Yes the truckers are fined and I know of one who was fired .it can happen politicians working together.They are proposing other overpasses in our area I'll keep you posted.
Joe

[Anonymous]

Remember, that most infrastructure in this country is relatively old--yet the feds continually allow larger vehicles on the road. The infrastructure was built to allow passage of vehicles of the day. Unless a road has a large amount of vehicular traffic, upgrades to permit passage of larger vehicles is seldom a high priority.

Also, with most states facing a budget crunch, where would the money come to finance such upgrades? I would rather spend the money on education and police. This way, the trucker should be able to read the Low Clearance sign. If they choose to ignore it, a cop should be near to ticket the nitwit.

Lastly, what would happen to those passengers on the double decker bus if they hit the bridge? Same result as if they hit a protective girder, but without damage to the bridge. Drivers need to be held accountable without passing blame towards others.

Just some thoughts. Have a good one!

[Anonymous]

David,
Now just imagine what will happen to the passengers on that double decker bus if it hits the girders protecting the bridge.

I kinda had in mind that the highway designers should lower the highway sufficiently (usually a foot or two) to provide proper clearances for the largest standard vehicle permitted on the highways. That way nobody gets hurt because the accident won't happen in the first place - even if the driver can't read.

Of course, they should also stop building them that way. Its stupid. The consequences are so obvious that even Forest Gump could figure it out.

RmC

[BR60103]

should read "restricted" and "girder". Where's the edit facility and spell check?
--D.

[BR60103]

I have thought for some time that retricted bridges should have a large girger mounted a few feet before the bridge so that trucks and busses could have their tops removed without endangering the actual bridge. I think there is one country that has taken it up.
We used to have a very low bridge in town that resulted when the local river was re-routed and a street put in its place. We also have a lowish bridge on our Main Street and our one double-decker bus has to make a detour because it won't fit under (only for parades -- not on its regular route.)
--David

[Anonymous]

Did any trucker ever wonder what happens to a railroad underpass when his truck hits it! Unless it is very large, it will likely be dislodged, kinking the rails, then wham - along comes a train and it derails.

If the line is signalled, some railroads have detectors to set the signals at stop if this happens. But what about dark territory?

I just read a story about a trucker who hit an unsignalled bridge and just left the scene - the rest is now history, and so is the bridge! What about the tug pilot who hit a bridge in Louisiana and just left the scene - derailling Amtrak's Sunset Limited and killing 46 people.

How about A PRISON SENTENCE for "negligent homicide" or for "wanton disregard of public safety" !?

Actually, I wonder why anyone who could read would be a trucker anyway - what with the poverty wage and long days away from home. Of course that's prejudicial, but my brother-in-law is a trucker and he rarely acts as though he can read! His attitude stinks.

Apparently, bad attitudes in truckers are common. maybe its the days and weeks away from the wife and kids. Or the crummy wages.

On the other hand, how in the H--- do the Highway engineers get away with creating such hazards in the first place? Or creating more and more hazardous grade crossings? Go figure. Maybe its State Sovereignty or something.

Maybe we shouldn't blame just truckers.

Maybe we should write our representatives and demand that apparently iliterate highway designers be held to the same public satety standards as other professions.

RmC

[dknelson]

Why a duck?
I assume they figure there is some wiggle room in the height.
It is remarkably like a sardine can top being rolled back.
You don't see this much anymore but years back you used to see truck drivers bleeding the air from their tires so they could get under a low bridge.
Dave Nelson

[JoeKoh]

Hi
As i am looking at the front page of tonights paper I was wondering if anyone had suggestions about what to do with truck drivers who can't read.

we have many viaducts for the old B&O line here in Defiance.They have plenty of warning signs flashers etc. but the truck drivers still want to turn their trailers into open air containers.
They get ripped open like a sardine can.if someone wants to see some pictures I can email them too you.Any thoughts or suggestions???