Some Good News From Ohio re; Passenger Rail

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cheviot Hill

If this has to go in front of the voters, forget it. If state reps vote on it forget it. If there is any public funds involved forget it. I would really like to see the system built and expanded, but I honestly don't see it happening. If Taft is still in office he'll find some place to spend the money. Do you really think the money to match the federal funds will be there? I don't. The majority of the voting public does not want this. Look at what happened in Cincinnati when they went to the voters for money to build a light rail and commuter rail corridors. It was overwelmingly rejected. OKI spent alot of money and time studing it only to get squashed by the voters.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for rail corridors. It really does sound great for Ohio, but I don't see this going much more forward than it has. If you can keep the government out of it and make it a private it would work. Look what has become of Amtrac with government involvement. Just my thoughts.

The Ohio Plan will not call for asking voters to tax themselves. The plan is to use $$$ the state is already spending on rail and rail-related highway projects as a state match (20%) to leverage federal $$$ (80%). And a federal funding program is closer than you think... the US Senate passed Senate Bill 1516 by a margin of 93 to 6. It is now before the House for consideration. Call your Congressman!

[Anonymous]

To answer all the questions about an interest of this system:

Interest in rail travel has really picked up in the past year or two. I've seen it first hand. I live in Columbus, and have been constantly frustrated with the driving situation. I know a couple of people who have to make the drive from Dayton to Cleveland almost on a weekly basis. Don't tell me they won't find this a good plan and a benefit to them. However, one thing that is lacking is people's awareness of this issue and political will to carry it out. But there is help in that area as well. For all of you who are interested and want to get this plan built as soon as possible, I urge you to go to:

www.allaboardohio.org

I have been volunteering for them for quite some time, this plan is very much a reality and interest has been taken by private businesses as well. Currently, we are working on a state-wide membership drive and formulating an active effort for the lightrail issue in Columbus. If you really want this system put in place and to give the tired business travelers a choice in transportation, I urge you to get involved.

[ValleyX]

All of the grade separation has been removed at Cambridge City, I also know the overpass that once went over Route 40 west of Richmond is long gone. There are places you can't hardly tell that a railroad was ever there, let alone a busy double-tracked main.

[rrnut282]

The Pennsy Columbus-Indy line went through a grade-separation project in the early 60's. Most if not all of the massive concrete bridge abutments are still intact through central Indiana. They're still there because it would cost much more to remove them than it cost to build them! The fact that they still stand won't make it any easier to put tracks back on it, though. The town of Centerville, IN (just west of Richmond) is currently designing a new street running down the former right-of-way. A few years ago they used it for an interceptor sewer across the town. INDOT has removed a few of the highway bridges (like S.R. 1in near Cambridge City) over this route and filled them in.

[cnw4001]

There was also a proposal to have rail service between Cleveland and Columbus while I-71 is being rebuilt and that too went nowhere.

[Anonymous]

Two years ago, the Central Ohio Transit Authority (COTA) placed a bond issue on the ballot in Franklin County to fund an initial light-rail corridor on exisiting lines between Columbus and Delaware, OH (about 25 miles north of downtown Columbus). This line runs through the most prosperous area in Greater Columbus, and would have cost the average household about $41 per year.

The measure failed 81%-19%. Sad - but this will give you an idea how motor-brained this state can be. Any plan that has the potential to remove federal funds for highway projects will be viewed with extreme suspicion.

Noozer - The PRR Indy line is still in place to "downtown" Hilliard - NS uses the old Hilliard yard to store bad-order cars, surplus auto racks, and entire trains if traffic is REALLY up. The ROW is a trail from downtown Hilliard west for about five miles, and should be extended to Plain City in a couple of years. I live three blocks from the trail it

Any route from Columbus to Dayton and Indy would have to go from Dayton south to Hamilton or north to Sidney to gain access to a rail line to Indy.

[Cheviot Hill]

If this has to go in front of the voters, forget it. If state reps vote on it forget it. If there is any public funds involved forget it. I would really like to see the system built and expanded, but I honestly don't see it happening. If Taft is still in office he'll find some place to spend the money. Do you really think the money to match the federal funds will be there? I don't. The majority of the voting public does not want this. Look at what happened in Cincinnati when they went to the voters for money to build a light rail and commuter rail corridors. It was overwelmingly rejected. OKI spent alot of money and time studing it only to get squashed by the voters.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for rail corridors. It really does sound great for Ohio, but I don't see this going much more forward than it has. If you can keep the government out of it and make it a private it would work. Look what has become of Amtrac with government involvement. Just my thoughts.

[Anonymous]

LukeM.... The former PRR ROW between Columbus & Indianapolis (sadly) is pretty much gone. The Columbus suburb of Hilliard is built over a good protion of it, and the rest is a short bike trail. West of there, there are portions of the ROW still evident, but the tracks are long gone and much of the rural portions have been bulldozed over and are pushing up corn & soybeans.

Theorectically, it is still possible connect Indy & Columbus via Dayton or Cincinnat, but it's a bit out of the way.

cpbloom & cnw4001 ... I know several people who are heavily involved with the Ohio Hub Plan and they tell me that if a federal funding plan is created (which could happen with Senate Bill 1516), the initial trains on the Ohio Hub system could be up and running within two years.

BTW: ORDC just posted information on its website ( http://www.dot.state.oh.us/ohiorail ) about the additional route study. Click the "Ohio & Lake Erie Regional Rail / Ohio Hub" link. There is also a comment link that you can fill out and either e-mail or "snail mail" to ORDC.

[cnw4001]

I'd ride the Pittsburgh - Columbus line but don't expect to do so before I ride in the back of a long black vehicle.

Dale

[cpbloom]

I'm a Pittsbugh transplant living in Columbus so you know I'm all for this but it seems like they have been looking at "studies" for like the past 15 years.

Can we get to the next phase sometime before I [xx(]?

[Anonymous]

I hope this Ohio Hub thing happens very soon. BTW does anyone know if the former PRR or NYC main line from Indianapolis to Columbus via Dayton is still around? I'm kinda surprised that transportation officials in Ohio didn't think of running passenger trains from Pittsburgh to Indianapolis via Wheeling, Columbus and Dayton, or from Cincinnatti through Dayton to Toledo and Detroit.

[Anonymous]

mrsheeep... I acknowledge your doubts, but Ohio has a greater population density than the nation of France, so the passenger base is here and strong. In addition, we are seeing a huge increase in truck traffic on Ohio's Interstates and other major roadways. ODOT is predicting a better than 50-percent increase in truck traffic over the next 20 years. To put that in perspective: for every semi you see on the Interstates right now in Ohio, there will be two by 2025. That's something that already has people looking for an alternative to "jump in a car and be anyplace in 2 to 2 1/2 hours. I make those trips several times a month and I would gladly trade any or all of them for the chance to make the same trip (and use the time productively BTW) on a train.

"Ohio will never vote to fund the existing Amtrak service in Ohio"??? Guess what, they already are! But for every dollar Ohio pays in tax dollars for "existing" Amtrak service, we get less than 47-cents in return. We don't get what we pay for now. (BTW: The Ohio Hub would not involve a "vote". It would use existing state and local transportation dollars being spent on rail or rail-related highway projects, as a potential local match for federal funds.

The Ohio Hub is a totally different concept. And Ohio is not the only state with such plans. In fact, Ohio is one of 25 states now either working on or implementing statewide and/or regional rail plans for short-haul corridor trains. This would create a network of passenger trains during daytime hours, where there are currently none. You could, if all of these plans are put into place, travel from Chicago to New York and most other places without necessarily setting foot on an Amtrak long-distance train.

Read the Ohio Hub Plan. I have. This is out of the box thinking.

BTW: I grew up in the Northeast (Connecticut) not far from Amtrak's NEC. You are correct that East coast traffic is nothing like here in Ohio, but it's an apples-to-oranges comparison. In the relative sense, traffic is just as bad here as it is anywhere. It's just a matter of perspective.

[Anonymous]

I'm afraid it will be a cold day in a hot place before you ever see a state-funded passenger train in Ohio. In fact, if Amtrak gets tough with the states and requires state money to maintain overhead routes like the Lake Shore Limited, ALL intercity service between Chicago and East Coast could be in jeopardy, as Ohio will never vote to fund the existing Amtrak service within the state

Ohio may have the third- or fouth-worst economy in the country , and has a huge issue with public school funding on their hands that will eventually consume any spare dollars in the budget

More importantly, even assuming Amtrak survives as an intercity carrier, connecting to the existing system under the proposed system would be pointless unless you're vampire. Connections at Toledo, Cleveland, and Cincinnati would be primarily between 1 and 5 AM. I'm not sure that those of you in areas close to Chicago on living on the East Coast realize the negative impact this on popular opinion here in the Buckeye State. Realistically, to get political support for a state-funding in Ohio, another set of trains would have to be put in place to offer marketable times in this area.

Local ridership - be real. From Columbus, you can jump in a car and be anyplace in the state within 2 1/2 hours. Having lived and worked in the Northeast Corridor, I can tell that auto traffic in Ohio is child's play in comparision - using a train with the attendent stem times on either end would generally take twice the time that it would to drive directly. There's no highway disincentive here as there is in driving from, say, New Haven to Wilmington

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Old Timer


noozer - does Ohio expect that they'll pay for all this with the revenue from, say, 100 riders per week?

Old Timer

Old Timer.... if you go to the ORDC website: http://dot.state.oh.us/ohio rail and look up the link to the Ohio & Lake Erie Regional Rail Plan, you will learn:

1. That it will be paid for by allowing Ohio to use state and local dollars that are already being spent on rail projects as credit toward federal matching fuinds, once a federal rail infrastructure program becomes available... and that may happen soon via Senate Bill 1516

2. You'll will also find out that ridership projections are well above 100 riders per week. In fact the ORDC projections show ridership and revenues that will cover the operating costs of the system.

3. The Ohio Hub System will be just that .... a system. It will serve the following corridors....
Cleveland-Columbus-Dayton-Cincinnati
Cleveland-Youngstown-Pittsburgh
Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago
Cleveland Toledo-Detroit
Cleveland-Buffalo-Toronto
Pittsburgh-Columbus-Chicago (via Lima & Fort Wayne
Columbus-Toledo-Detroit

This is an entirely new concept in regional corridor rail planning. In fact, according to a source within the ORDC, The NS railroad has told the ORDC that it supports the plan. ORDC has a similar pledge of support from CSX

[darkstar974]

I know about Cleveland and Akron what about good ole youngstown just a mere thought !
Dark

[ValleyX]

When I see these articles, I always think cynically, will it be in place and available for my grandchildren to ride? Mind you, I haven't any grandchildren yet.

[mackb4]

David Goode on Oct 19,2004 at a Railway Age Conference meeting,said in a speech ,that the NS was looking into rail passenger bussiness.One of the five cities he mentioned was Columbus Ohio.I lost most of the printed report that that I got off NS's website.Maybe if you go to NS's website it can be retrieved?

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spankybird

So how do the poeple from NE Ohio (Cleveland - Akron area) get on the train. Drive 2 1/2 hours to Columbus or Toledo???? If I drive to Toledo to go to Detroit, I might as well fini***he drive.

It said that these routes would be "added on" to the existing routes in the plan, which presumably would include Cleveland - Columbus - Cincinnati.

[spankybird]

So how do the poeple from NE Ohio (Cleveland - Akron area) get on the train. Drive 2 1/2 hours to Columbus or Toledo???? If I drive to Toledo to go to Detroit, I might as well fini***he drive.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

After all is said and done, a whole lot more is said than done. I'll believe this when the equipment and construction contracts are put up for bid.

[eolafan]

Joe, right now I think your statement about OH drivers loving their cars too much would apply to virtually all of us until gas prices top $5/gallon.

[JoeKoh]

would be nice to see but most ohioans love their cars too much.
stay safe
joe

[Anonymous]

noozer sez:

· "6,000-plus construction jobs

· 1,500 permanent railroad jobs

· 6,000-plus permanent jobs tied to development around rail stations and the general communities served by the Ohio Hub

· $1-billion dollar increase in property values

· Annual tax revenue increased by $28-million"

noozer - does Ohio expect that they'll pay for all this with the revenue from, say, 100 riders per week?

Old Timer

[Anonymous]

(Posted on the ORDC Website on Friday)
NEWS

OHIO RAIL
DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION
50 W. Broad Street, Columbus, Ohio 43215

[phone] telephone or fax [phone]

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/ohiorail/

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Stu Nicholson

Date: November 18, 2005 [phone]

Ohio Hub Plan Advancing

Tandem Studies Examine Economic Impact & Additional Passenger Rail Routes



(Columbus) --- The light at the end of the tunnel just might be a train. In fact, it could very well be one many Ohioans haven’t seen or been able to ride for a long time: a passenger train.

That possibility will be two big steps closer to reality as two studies get underway this week that could greatly advance the Ohio Rail Development Commission’s Ohio Hub Plan to redevelop and expand passenger rail and increased capacity for freight rail.

“We can build this system”, says ORDC Executive Director Jim Seney, as he announced the kickoff of the tandem studies that will:

· Conduct a detailed analysis of the potential statewide economic impact of the Ohio Hub Plan

· Determine the feasibility of adding two new routes to the master plan: a Pittsburgh-Columbus-Chicago route (via Lima and Fort Wayne or Indianapolis) and a Columbus-Toledo-Detroit Route

“The results of these two studies can move the Ohio Hub Plan into its next and most important stage: the environmental impact study”, says Seney. “Once we complete that phase, the Ohio Hub can become an official transportation project in the eyes of the federal government and we can start building this system and running the kind of fast, frequent passenger trains and faster, more timely freight rail service that will boost Ohio’s economy and create new and better jobs.”

Initial meetings have already been held on both studies to set up the framework for field work, information gathering and how to analyze what the study teams discover. It is thought both studies should be complete within the next 8 to 12 months, but some preliminary information may be available by early next year.

The Detailed Economic Impact Study (DEIS) is being conducted by two teams of economic experts who will examine what were positive preliminary numbers in the initial Ohio Hub Report. Those numbers include an estimated economic impact of:



· 6,000-plus construction jobs

· 1,500 permanent railroad jobs

· 6,000-plus permanent jobs tied to development around rail stations and the general communities served by the Ohio Hub

· $1-billion dollar increase in property values

· Annual tax revenue increased by $28-million



The DEIS will attempt to quantify and refine these numbers down to the local level to see which communities and segments of Ohio’s economy will benefit and by how much.

The additional route study will take a detailed look at the infrastructure (rails, bridges, right of way, station facilities, etc) along the projected routes. The aims will be to determine, among other things:



· Condition of rights-of-way (both existing and abandoned), bridges, signal systems, tracks

· Ridership projections from each community along the routes

· Existing or potential connections with other modes: airports, mass transit, bikeways, hotels and local business districts

· What needs to be done to bring route conditions up to grade to handle higher speed trains and greater volume

“The goal is to bring these additional routes up to the same level of feasibility as the rest of the route system outlined in the Ohio Hub Report”, says Executive Director Seney. “In doing so, when federal funding becomes available to match with state dollars, we can proceed with building the entire system and not just phasing in one rail line at a time.”

“And with the possibility of legislation now in Congress that would establish a first-ever federal rail infrastructure funding program”, says Seney, “it’s all the more important now that Ohio works to have a funding-ready rail plan in place so we can get more people, freight and Ohio’s economy moving forward.”

(The Ohio Rail Development Commission is an independent agency operating within the Ohio Department of Transportation. ORDC is responsible for economic development through the improvement and expansion of passenger and freight rail service, railroad grade crossing safety and rail travel & tourism issues. For more information about what ORDC does for Ohio, visit our website at http://www.dot.state.oh.us/ohiorail/ )