How are locomotives turned?

[Anonymous]

How are locomotives turned to ensure the cab faces forward? Are turntables still in existance? Answer much appreciated.

Nigel Lucas
United Kingdom

[Anonymous]

Hi Nigel. Turntables are few an far between here. Most yards have a Y area to turn them around. What's a Y? There is a main track with two switches a quarter mile or more apart. both of these curve into a single track with a single switch. The locomotve enters one switch goes into the curve past the switch then gets switched over to the other curved track, backs down to the main switch and it is now going in the opposite direction it arrived at. One note, Norfolk and Southern RR has locomotives with two control stands so they don't have to worry about having the cab in the short nose forward position. I hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

Edward, many thanks, that's cleared up what for me has been a mystery for some time. I've got a couple of books on US railroading but no mention is made there. Thanks again.


Nigel

[Anonymous]

I do not think there are many turntables left in the USA but most engines are more likely to be turned at a wye. The wye is where a mainline will split in two directions shaped like the letter Y. We have a wye area here in Central Kentucky on the Norfolk Southern Mainline and they use it not only for train traffic but also at times to turn engines the opposite direction.

For example: If the engine is facing short hood south and they want it long hood south and the engine is north of the wye switch, all they would have to do is uncouple from the train, route the power around the north wye to the east or west end of the wye, then get the switcher or the Dispatcher's office to throw the switch so it can move toward the south end of the wye.
Once it is south of the wye, then the turned power can couple back onto their train and proceed ahead long hood south. Same goes the opposite direction. It is done sometimes for power purposes, more horsepower on front means less power from the other units.

I hope I have helped you out with this information.

Bye!!!

[Anonymous]

There is also a loop. Those are becoming extinct too. It is shaped like a 0 and instead of having three switches it only has one. Examples are in Chicago, Ill., Flint, Mich., and Kelowna, British Columbia.

Another method I've seen which is probably very rare is picking up the locomotive with a crane and turning it around. I've only seen that once on a tourist lne in Michigan.

[Anonymous]

Nigell, As you have read one locomotive needs to be turned around. Besides Ys and loops railroads also try to put another locomotive back to back with the first on their trains. I live in a corner of Washington State and all the trains run this way just because there are no Ys up here.

[Sperandeo]

Hi Nigel,

A few years ago I visited the Union Pacific's eastern terminal at Council Bluffs, Nebraska. At that time the practice was to take incoming locomotives off their trains and run them around a baloon track – what model railroaders call a reversing loop – on their way to the engine terminal. That way every arriving power consist was turned back west even before it was serviced.

Now that the UP has taken over the Chicago & North Western its main line extends all the way to Chicago, so operations at Council Bluffs are probably different now. That's how it was then, however, and it wasn't unusual to see "elephant style" locomotive consists with all the units facing the same way.

so long,

Andy Sperandeo, Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine

[Anonymous]

nigell, Most engines are turned (the term we use
on the railroad}. by a track wye. the engine moves
at a 90 degree curve to the right then backs over
to theleft swicth then moves 90 degree to the left
which in turns the engine 180 degrees. most railroads today dont have turn tables because
theyre to labor intense.

[Anonymous]

There is however, a turntable at the U.P. yard here in Salina,KS that is still very much in use.
Matt

[wabash1]

hi nigell some railroads still use turntables in major yards, other wise at other points along the road we have wye and baloon tracks to turn the engines.

[Anonymous]

Diesels are traditionally bi directional. AS you know in Europe, most diesels have a cab at each end. In the USA, diesels typically run in MU or multiple unit. This means there is usually a cab facing forward and another facing backward. This means that on a railroad with a large pool of power, it can usually find a loco facing the right way.

However, there are always exceptions. Balloon tracks are popular at the end points of a railroad. I have seen wyes and turntables at many rail yards. The industry trend is to place "Safety Cab" locos on the front of each train since they posess the latest technology and crew comforts. Sometimes that necessitates the turning of one loco to get it facing the right way.

There are still a number of steam era turntables in use, you just have to look harder.

[Anonymous]

Andy,

As an editor, I am sure you are very concerned with accuracy. Council Bluffs is in Iowa.

[edblysard]

Hi Nigell,
By now, you been Wyed to death, but so far, only on person mentioned that when locomotiver are MUed, most railroads put the consist together with a locomotive facing each way, one forward, and one facing backwards. That way, you do not need to turn them, the crews just swap from one unit to the other when needed. And most of the locomotives here do not have to face a certain way, they run just as well backwards as forwards, which is why we have slender rear hoods, instead of full cowl bodies, to allow a engineer to see down the side of the locomotive. Although most crews and railroad perfer to run them with the cab facing forward, if you have to you can run in reverse as long as you chose, it makes no difference to the diesel.
In fact, untill recently, NS chose to run their locomotive with the long hood as the front of the locomotive, and some of their units had a control stand on both sides of the cab, one facing forward, one to the rear, but that is no longer a common pratice. But if you just have to turn one, a wye is your best bet, most turntables are gone, and the few left wouldnt support something as large as a SD90MAC.
I work for a terminal railroad, in Houston, Texas, and we have at least seven wyes I can think of along the ship channel.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Hi again,
I have a question for you.
How do you guys turn locomotives, or do you have a cab at each end?
Funny, quite a few of our electric locomotives have dual cabs, the GG1 and the Great Northren's little joes come to mind, but almost none of our diesels have them.
Stay Frsoty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Hi Nigel, out here in California we have a lot of both. I myself have operated a turntable several times a shift when i worked for the Union Pacific.
Marty.
Esparto,Ca. U.S.A.

[Anonymous]

hey ed, we had a turntable in roseville that was built for turning the SP cabforwards. it turns a MAC90 with ease
marty

[Mookie]

Andy - Nebraska will be please to know Council Bluffs has been incorporated into the state. But Iowa will be really ticked!

Jen

Lincoln NE

[edblysard]

The only turntable left in Houston is at the Milby street round house, and they are luck if it holds a SD40.
You lucky devil, you.
Ed

[dmoore74]

So when did the Great Northern have Little Joes? Milwaukee and South Shore were the only operators in the US with this locomotive.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, you need to tell the powers that be on my RR that they should make the North American cabs the lead units. Many times I have gotten on a consist with three wide cabs trailing an old non air conditioned sd40-2 oven.
Ken

[Anonymous]

I remember the T.V. show Bonanza had a Little Joe
Ken

[dmoore74]

True, but he had to turn himself around to run in the opposite direction.

[Jackflash]

Hey Ken, been there done that with the better locos in the trail, what we do in the summer is
move them to suit ourselves, get one of those
air conditioned units in the lead (theres always
a way to do it)if you're gonna be on it 10 or 12 hours, in the winter we mostly just let it go.
jackflash

[alangj]

That's the railroading analog of the "three-point" or "K" turn that some of us had to learn in drivers' education, and that the ability to actually maneuver your car that way to turn around was required to be shown during the "road test" section of the license examination in some states.

Alan

[alangj]

If memory serves me correctly, one of the early-1950's-era experimental guided missles was named the "Little Joe" also.

Alan

[edblysard]

So true, Douglas.
Excuse? None really, except I was tired, it was late, and I am not a old head, so I dont even know who had the most Hudsons, NYC or the Pennsy.
So you get a point.
Ed

[Anonymous]

Yeah, our TMs down here cry like "Cabforward," when we want to swap leaders. They especialy whine when we have to go around the balloon track to get them facing the right direction. All of this while they sit in the cool comfort of their A/C tower.
Ken
P.S. Jack, I found the general notices on that helperlink that we were talking about. Too lenghty to put the whole thing on for you, but I will look for the answers to any questions that you have.

[Jackflash]

If I remember, "J" wanted to know about the
air when using helperlink jackflash

[Anonymous]

Sorry, Jack. The highschool years were hard on the old gray matter. Most of mine has been rendered as useless as seatfoam. I couldn't remember which one wanted the info.
Ken

[Jackflash]

Ken I didnt mean to imply that I didnt want the
information because I do, I just remember "j"
kept saying something about the air and the FRA
and I said it probably was similar to distributed
power, (in that there was radio control from the
head end to the tail end) not power, but air brake
control, I figure the head end can put the helper
engines into emergency via radio, the same way
the head end can apply the emergency brakes on
its own train with a two way EOT (via data radio)
jackflash