GE's SUCK EMD's RULE

[Anonymous]

I work on these pieces of junk all the time and the worst are the GE's. Really poor designs and cheap materials thrown together by over pressured under paid craftsman and designed by underexperienced "kids" straight out of college. GE is a JOKE. Their AC6000's are the biggest piece of junk to roll out of there doors. The computers and the engine and the trucks are absolute junk. CSX is about ready to tell GE to stick em'.

[Anonymous]

Right-on brother. I'm sick of all the moronic speculation by good intentioned fans etc. about G.E. equippment! Anyone who over the years has had the misfortune to work on or around these 'unit's' can testify to their ineptitude. The last couple of years I've had the fun of running 'lite-power' in and around the Seattle Terminal, and roaring any number of units through my 'Quarter-Mile' (0-50 mph). My favorites are still SD-40's, but the EMD MAC-70's are just kick-butt. I could go 0-50-stop while GE's are just starting to 'load-up'! I'm sure some of you think of me as a bit moronic for this scenario, but it sure is fun, and makes a point...Hommie

[sooblue]

There is only one way to settle the ge emd battle.
a cross country run off. each train weighs the same and using three engines, a 6000 type, 4400 type, and a 40-2type.
which combo does the best over the road.
at the end the ge 6000 and the emd 6000 are run at 60 mph on the same track driverless head on.
the ultimat winner is determined by the run off results and by which engine best protected the engine crew in the head on crash!
mike

[Anonymous]

I aways liked the way those POOCHES made smoke and fire.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if anything would be recognizable after a 60 m.p.h. cornfielder. Maybe there'd be enough of the crew left to bury if one loco was equipped with an ejection seat. Still, being shot through a steel roof would have to ring some bells! Gives me the willies just thinking about it. gdc

[wabash1]

it be difficult as you would haft to start the ge off a hill with 10000 tons pushing it to get it to 60mph . and the crew on the emd would get tired of waiting on the ge and fall asleep..

[eolafan]

For the record, I do not volunteer to crew either unit in the cornfirld meet. Also for the record, when it comes to looks, sound, acceleration and historic superiority, EMD RULES!

[sooblue]

*lol*
no one has to actualy crew the engines in the crash, we'll put crash dummies in them. Is 60 mph. a little fast? a timer in the computers could throw them into emergency ahead of the crash. Maybe instead of how well the engine crew is protected it should be the computer?
YOU KNOW !! this whole thing could be really done with a computer simulation. Lets have a run off and crash. There got to be some one out there who could set this up. HOW ABOUT TRAINS MAG!!
What do ya say. A SHOW DOWN!!

mike

[Anonymous]

Folks, every once-in-a-while, when I get the time, I'll drop in and read all these posts. This particular one has to be one of the lamest that I have ever read. General Motors vs General Electric
is a mute point. Both companies produce a good, servicable product. I run Elkhart Indiana, to Grand Rapids Michigan 5 days a week, on Norfolk Southern. We have a "gravy" run. Straight shot unless we get stabbed at Schoolcraft. (CN). Lately, about 90% of the time, we have GE power. Occasionaly, we have GM power. Either way, we always get home before the "law" catches us. I cannot say the same for the so called "railfan-favorites", like old worn-out engines.
General Electric, or General Motors, I don't care. As long as they give us something we can work with. When I first started on Conrail, the crap that they would send you out with was a nightmare. You might leave Elkhart with three units, by the time you made BO, you were lucky to have enough power to make Jackson.
Just my own opinion.
Todd C.

[eolafan]

Hi Todd, remember please that these posts have (for the most part) been lighthearted contributions by railfans who love railroading and railroads, especially history. You, on the other hand are obviously a seasoned railroader who perhaps would not classify yourself as a "fan" of trains...if it is just a job (which is how I interperted your post) then that's fine, but how about giving the rest of us a little chance to be lighthearted and silly. In this world we live in, a little silliness is good for the soul, don't you think?

[alangj]

It's a "moot" point, but with this much written about it already, hardly a "mute" one.

[Anonymous]

silliness? this stuff is more cut-throat than anythng else..GE,EMD, who cares? We all have the same interest in trains, dont we?

[UPTRAIN]

I love the new SD70Ms I work for UP the GE don't ride like a "Magic Carrage" but the are pretty good pullers but yes EMD ROCKS!!!

[sooblue]

I'm always amazed by how serious some people can get and to what lengths we sometimes go to to make or prove a point.
If you look at the big picture there is nothing that you read in this forum that anyone in any buisness doesn't have to put up with or deal with or work with. Over the years I've worked with a lot of junk and I've had my favorites, I've worked with a lot of "characters"
too. Some are actualy revitalizing.
I think it's fun to read about the experiances of others. To read about some other rivalries. To know YOU are not alone. Forums tend to bring togeather kindred spirits from far and wide.
I appreciate everyone who has posted on this forum, even the people who have rivaled some of the odd characters I have worked with.
No doubt with some of the statements that I have made I will be on someones ODD list too *lol*
If we can't have fun here there is NO hope for mankind.

Mike

[Anonymous]

Sorry, Jim, I didn't want to rain on your parade. I just thought I'd shed some light on this whole EMD vs GE thing. Kind of like Ford vs Chevy. Either one will get you where you are going, I'll let the mechanical department decide which is the better equipment. Just don't ask me to run a GP-35! The transitions on them were a nightmare.
By the way,..... I drive a Dodge.
Todd C.

[eolafan]

Todd, not a biggie buddy. You didn't rain on my parade at all. We are each entitled to our opinions (GOD BLESS AMERICA), and oh by the way, I also drive a Dodge (Intrepid). Have a good day. Jim

[BRAKIE]

Todd,If my memory serves me correcty the GP30 wasn't all that great either.I do recall alot of the old C&O (Chessie) engineers that I worked with didn't care that much for them or the 35.

[eolafan]

Larry, not being an actual railroader I can't say whether or not the GP30 was actually any good, but all I can say is that there are many un-rebuilt (i.e. original condition) GP30's in and around my town of Chicago and most of them sound (not look unfortunately) great! They seem to have a sound that vibrates the ground you are standing on more than just about any other unit (except perhaps the SD70MAC)

[Anonymous]

Thank you

[Anonymous]

yeah but what are you going to do when UP retires all the tunnel motors> The only engine that will contine to pull enven while overheated in a tunnel is a GE also UP only bought about 1500 emd's and even amtrack and emd stalwath is now all GE in the last 6 years BNSF has bought 2500 GE's to 400 70 macs a 6 to 1 ratio who do they like better

[Anonymous]

Sounds like GE. They did try the SD75M and didn't like them. I wonder why? The SD75M is a SD70M with more Hp or is it?

[Anonymous]

Well, well, well. I see GEac6000s in revenue on CSX every day, though they are repowering them to be AC4400s. BUT, the GE AC6000 has at least WORKED IN REVENUE SERVICE!! EMD cannot even keep one running longenough to get the darn train into the next block of the railroad!!!!! So I think that GE has a lead in the 6000 hp area. Also, EMD has produced a lot of junk, that has caused the RRs a lot of trouble. So I don't think that Ge is the only one that has had trouble with their locomotives.

[BRAKIE]

Guys,I spoke to 2 friends of mine that work on the NS.1 is a engineer and 1 is a conductor.It is their opinion that the EMD is a much better locomotive over all then a GE.They both feel that the GE like the EMD will get the job done.When I ask them which they believe is the best locomotive made both agreed that the SD40/40-2 is the best this was followed by the ex CR GP40-2s.Neither had any bad or good comments or thoughts about GEs.It was their opinion that they would perfer EMD over GEs,but both stated it did not matter just as long as the units got the job done.My engineer friend said to him the job is no more then a good pay check and a good way to make a living for him and his family...My conductor friend agreed.

[eolafan]

Marvin, well, well back to you. You may see lots of GE AC6000 units in service out there, but I see lots of SD90's, a few in 6000 HP configuration on the U.P. coming and going to and from Chicago on the U.P. west line through Rochelle on a regular basis.

[Anonymous]

well as i see it , it only takes 600 EMD to take the place of 2500 GE 'S

[sooblue]

why is GE repowering the AC6000s ?

[Anonymous]

GE has begun a program of re-motoring or de-rating their AC6000's for many reasons. AC6000's brand new have whats called a 7HDL engine in them. They differ greatly from the regular 7FDL in many ways. The HDL has had teething problems from day one. The original intent for the creation of the HDL was to meet new federal emissions requirements, in addition to increase potential horsepower.
Here's a list of problems I have witnessed or experienced on the job
- a problem with harmonic vibration between the engine and the turbo chargers would cause the turbos to rattle themselves apart. Often the 6000's would come through with just the turbo hold down bolts missing. Some were worse.
- another problem, GE may have done this for a reason (I'm no engineer) but the crankshafts aren't hardened. If anything were to strike the journals, severe damage would result. More than once when the first power assemblies were changed on them, the mechanical forces would sometimes forget to remove the connecting rod bearing cap studs and they would strike the crank as the assembly was being removed.
- a faulty design of the connecting rod has lead to many failures of the connecting rod bearing cap studs due to extensive flexing of the journal area of the connecting rod. These studs are very labor intensive to change and just trying to get them out can be extermely dangerous as they can be under alot of tension (22,000 pounds)(I have witnessed them come flying out like a bullet, and with the weight of the removal tool about 20 pounds,I think they'll take an arm off sooner or later) and if they snap off during operation severe damage can result
- because of the excessive flexing of the connecting rod at the journal has lead to the failure of the aluminum bearings (which are a real pain in the nuts to align in the first place)
- they have had problems with the fuel pumps and nozzles wearing out (EMD's have unit injectors - the job of compressing and injecting is done right within the injector) (always a problem associated with running higher fuel pressures)

overall the 6000 engine wouldn't be half bad if it was designed right, they are just raw horsepower and they can sure PULL!

[Anonymous]

WOW, what good information. What have been some of the fixes tried on the AC6000?

[sooblue]

I've never heard of aluminum bearings on a crank shaft not even in a 3hp. lawn mower let alone on a 6000hp. monster. Maybe the unheatreated crank is so ge can weld it togeather after it breaks or straiten it out after it twists???

[Anonymous]

I think that the best units by far are SD-40s.
But that said in my 22 years of being a Engr. The new GE units out preform the new EMD units in
Moutain grade operations in everyway.