Originally posted by track walker Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 11, 2005 12:45 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] you both have some issues... but if your going to call this fellow a liberal, well call you a nazi. theres only one way of doing things.... right? Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:32 PM There you go set up a sting & catch them in the act. Much better then moaning & groaning about something that nobody on this board can correct. [:o)][:D][:p] Originally posted by trainluver1 Originally posted by Hugh Jampton Originally posted by spbed Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. The best thing to do is just call the police and report it, and let them sneak up on the taggers and catch them in the act. trainluver1 Reply Edit Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:32 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:01 AM Well I for one sort of enjoy it as a railfan & see what some fertile minds may create. Like the auto racker I saw painted with a hugh #5 in tribute I guess for the driver who got likked at Daytona[:p][:)] Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] Whatever anybody else may say since RR cars are usually in the open air subject to rain, snow, wind, sand storms, etc common sense would say the more coats of paint you have on something the less likely is it will rust. [:o)][:D] Peace in the end you & I & all on this board can do nothing to change it so why worry about it? [:p][:)][:D] I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Originally posted by ben10ben Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:14 PM Recently I saw a lead eng on a BNSF which on the condrs side, the entire BNSF on the eng body was painted over by junk. Made me sick just to look at it. I would like to take whoever did it and wrap their head in a vise and squeez it shut. On a unrelated note, about 10 yrs ago there was a yd crew in KS which spray painted '2 dead crew' on a brand new private firm lease hopper car. It did not take much fact finding to discover who did it. They were warned not to do it again. Some of the junk painted on rolling stock is inside jobs coming from rr people themselves. Quite sad. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Hee Hoo! Wow, you really "coasted" far out into left field on that one, buddy! You made a lot of assumptions about me without ever knowing me. Your babbling proved intriguing to read, but please leave your paranoid ranting and creepy "liberal conspiracy" agendas out of the topic next time. "Mind expanding drugs"...wow. Where'd you get that one? Well, if I wasn't so prone to logic, I might be liable to make some assumptions about you, too - maybe stating something about how you're probably quite an old, cranky, and joyless fellow, maybe a bit paranoid, maybe a bit too plugged in on the Fox News, maybe not the happiest person on this forum. This was originally about graffiti (the legality of which I never argued about nor defended), but you seem to have, in a very Tom Delay-esque style, wanted to turn it into some whiney partisan (or ideological, as you called it, which is actually quite similar) bickering. Oh, I am taunted to play your childish game with you, but I think for now I'll refrain. See, I actually try to act my age, where as you seem, like most juvenile spoiled brats who're stuck in grown men's bodies, to have trouble with that. Contrary to your presumptuous belief that I am somehow a liberal (the thought actually quite nauseates me if you must know), I actually prescribe to the belief of OBJECTIVISM, which is not prescribing nor conforming to a pre-set, partisan code of beliefs, but rather OBJECTIVELY analyzing and deciding for yourself. I see good and bad in both left-wing and right-wing trains of thought. NOthing is ever black and white. You, it seems, prefer to choose the other path, of labeling and name-calling, of sticking to party lines. I know your type, and they do not seem like happy people. They seem rather angry. And they tend to live short lives. All that stress and anger tends to wear on the circulatory system, a bit , you know. Perhaps you're a bit overweight as well. It's a shame, really, that I had to go from trying to offer a contrasting point of view on this subject, to defending myself against an old angry crank like yourself. Please, we should let this thread die. And in the future, lets try to exchange thoughts about this in a MATURE manner, without the presumptions and name-calling from both sides. It doesn't always hurt so much to act one's age. -joe Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 3:25 PM So once more... Graffiti bad. People that paint graffiti bad. Liberals or people that are willing to tolerate it bad. Me and the rest of the anti-graffiti folks on the topic good... trainluver1 Reply Edit siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, April 9, 2005 12:41 PM I don't like it and cannot find any redeeming value with it whatsoever, especailly on trains ........ Other people's property is simply that - others! Kinda feel about it the way I do regarding: (1) Warm beer (2) Wet toilet paper (3) Politically correct thinkers Happy Railroading! Siberianmo Reply ben10ben Member sinceJanuary 2003 From: Frankfort, Kentucky 1,758 posts Posted by ben10ben on Saturday, April 9, 2005 11:28 AM Those of you saying that graffitti prolongs the life of the car would do well to read the post on page 1 by AntonioFP45. In addition, if a vandal(yes, that's what they are) paints over the road numbers or other identification information on the car, the railroad has no other choice but to take it out of service and at least repaint that information on the car. Like it or not, that costs money to do, which is passed on to us in one way or another eventually(trickle down economics). I really see it as a sign of a sad world when people make excuses for something that is so clearly vandalism with no benefit whatsoever. Ben TCA 09-63474 Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 9, 2005 7:11 AM H'mm did you ever consider that the painters are benefiting the RRs by adding paint to the RR cars reducing the possibilty or rusting? Just a thought! [:p][:D][8D] Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 2:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Reply Edit locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 9:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Very much agreed. Maybe 'law' needs to be changed. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:53 PM Think this thread has been beaten in the ground long enough. Please;let's end this thread, and go on to something else, other than graffiti. I agree with Larry (Tree 068): a piece of chalk would be nice, instead of a spray can. (not condoning anything.) It's still vandalism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Reply Edit Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Too late.... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:20 PM A brief glimpse into the mind of a graffiti "artist": By PAT MILTON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - A renowned graffiti artist, arrested last year for defacing the facade of a Bronx building, is back in everyone's good graces after spray-painting — with permission — a bright red-and-gold tribute to Pope John Paul II. James De La Vega's latest work, painted on the security gate of a Spanish Harlem storefront, was created to bring hope to the poor and struggling in his Manhattan neighborhood, he said Wednesday. "This Pope understood pain and tried to relieve it," said De La Vega, 32, standing in front of the artwork. The "God's Revolutionary" mural portrays a praying pope looking at a crucified Christ as a man with his head bowed stands off in the distance. It took De La Vega two hours to complete Sunday, and he hopes it becomes a permanent installation. As De La Vega spoke, several people paused to look at the mural; one man made the sign of the cross, while another kissed the religious medal around his neck. The artist returned to Spanish Harlem after graduating with an art degree from Cornell University in 1993. He used the brick facades as his canvas and the sidewalks as his chalkboard. On one wall he depicted the Last Supper, painting black and white skeletons at the table instead of the apostles, to underscore the poverty of the Harlem streets. Last July, De La Vega was arrested for painting a fish jumping out of a bowl on the brick wall of a Bronx building without approval. He was convicted by a judge of graffiti and criminal mischief, and ordered to serve 50 hours of community service. His brush with the law did nothing to dampen De La Vega's enthusiasm for his work. "Most poor people don't visit galleries," De La Vega said. "More people look at my artwork than visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_re_us/pope_art Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Thank you. trainluver1 Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 3:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:40 PM You should be happy that your car has an xtra(sic) coat of paint on it. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,011 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:48 PM Psst - Hey, bring your shiny new automobile over here. I've got the paint cans ready and we'll paint a really neat design on it for you. How does "Digger" sound? We can paint something different for you on the other side, too. Sorry if we cover up the windows. It would mess up the design if we didn't. You can always scrape them off if you need to see out of them... Or replace them. It won't cost you much. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:08 PM I think someone's been mis-using the quote option on this topic... That, or they're making fun of a serious subject. Vandalism is a serious matter. It cost money to repair or repaint things that have been messed up by kids that don't have anything better to do, and if it's a government owned item that's been vandalized, the money to repair it comes out of the tax payers pockets, and guess who the tax payers are... If I ever see anyone spray painting anything I'm calling the cops, just as I will if I see them throw their trash out their car window after leaving a fast food place like I've done before and testified against them at the hearing which cost them a $500.00 fine. No, it's none of my business what other people do-as long as they're obeying the law, and the same goes for me. trainluver1 Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:50 AM Actually the reverse is true. The more coats of paint you put on a object the less likely it is it will rust! [:p][:D] Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 11, 2005 12:45 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] you both have some issues... but if your going to call this fellow a liberal, well call you a nazi. theres only one way of doing things.... right? Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:32 PM There you go set up a sting & catch them in the act. Much better then moaning & groaning about something that nobody on this board can correct. [:o)][:D][:p] Originally posted by trainluver1 Originally posted by Hugh Jampton Originally posted by spbed Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. The best thing to do is just call the police and report it, and let them sneak up on the taggers and catch them in the act. trainluver1 Reply Edit Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:32 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:01 AM Well I for one sort of enjoy it as a railfan & see what some fertile minds may create. Like the auto racker I saw painted with a hugh #5 in tribute I guess for the driver who got likked at Daytona[:p][:)] Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] Whatever anybody else may say since RR cars are usually in the open air subject to rain, snow, wind, sand storms, etc common sense would say the more coats of paint you have on something the less likely is it will rust. [:o)][:D] Peace in the end you & I & all on this board can do nothing to change it so why worry about it? [:p][:)][:D] I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Originally posted by ben10ben Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:14 PM Recently I saw a lead eng on a BNSF which on the condrs side, the entire BNSF on the eng body was painted over by junk. Made me sick just to look at it. I would like to take whoever did it and wrap their head in a vise and squeez it shut. On a unrelated note, about 10 yrs ago there was a yd crew in KS which spray painted '2 dead crew' on a brand new private firm lease hopper car. It did not take much fact finding to discover who did it. They were warned not to do it again. Some of the junk painted on rolling stock is inside jobs coming from rr people themselves. Quite sad. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Hee Hoo! Wow, you really "coasted" far out into left field on that one, buddy! You made a lot of assumptions about me without ever knowing me. Your babbling proved intriguing to read, but please leave your paranoid ranting and creepy "liberal conspiracy" agendas out of the topic next time. "Mind expanding drugs"...wow. Where'd you get that one? Well, if I wasn't so prone to logic, I might be liable to make some assumptions about you, too - maybe stating something about how you're probably quite an old, cranky, and joyless fellow, maybe a bit paranoid, maybe a bit too plugged in on the Fox News, maybe not the happiest person on this forum. This was originally about graffiti (the legality of which I never argued about nor defended), but you seem to have, in a very Tom Delay-esque style, wanted to turn it into some whiney partisan (or ideological, as you called it, which is actually quite similar) bickering. Oh, I am taunted to play your childish game with you, but I think for now I'll refrain. See, I actually try to act my age, where as you seem, like most juvenile spoiled brats who're stuck in grown men's bodies, to have trouble with that. Contrary to your presumptuous belief that I am somehow a liberal (the thought actually quite nauseates me if you must know), I actually prescribe to the belief of OBJECTIVISM, which is not prescribing nor conforming to a pre-set, partisan code of beliefs, but rather OBJECTIVELY analyzing and deciding for yourself. I see good and bad in both left-wing and right-wing trains of thought. NOthing is ever black and white. You, it seems, prefer to choose the other path, of labeling and name-calling, of sticking to party lines. I know your type, and they do not seem like happy people. They seem rather angry. And they tend to live short lives. All that stress and anger tends to wear on the circulatory system, a bit , you know. Perhaps you're a bit overweight as well. It's a shame, really, that I had to go from trying to offer a contrasting point of view on this subject, to defending myself against an old angry crank like yourself. Please, we should let this thread die. And in the future, lets try to exchange thoughts about this in a MATURE manner, without the presumptions and name-calling from both sides. It doesn't always hurt so much to act one's age. -joe Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 3:25 PM So once more... Graffiti bad. People that paint graffiti bad. Liberals or people that are willing to tolerate it bad. Me and the rest of the anti-graffiti folks on the topic good... trainluver1 Reply Edit siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, April 9, 2005 12:41 PM I don't like it and cannot find any redeeming value with it whatsoever, especailly on trains ........ Other people's property is simply that - others! Kinda feel about it the way I do regarding: (1) Warm beer (2) Wet toilet paper (3) Politically correct thinkers Happy Railroading! Siberianmo Reply ben10ben Member sinceJanuary 2003 From: Frankfort, Kentucky 1,758 posts Posted by ben10ben on Saturday, April 9, 2005 11:28 AM Those of you saying that graffitti prolongs the life of the car would do well to read the post on page 1 by AntonioFP45. In addition, if a vandal(yes, that's what they are) paints over the road numbers or other identification information on the car, the railroad has no other choice but to take it out of service and at least repaint that information on the car. Like it or not, that costs money to do, which is passed on to us in one way or another eventually(trickle down economics). I really see it as a sign of a sad world when people make excuses for something that is so clearly vandalism with no benefit whatsoever. Ben TCA 09-63474 Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 9, 2005 7:11 AM H'mm did you ever consider that the painters are benefiting the RRs by adding paint to the RR cars reducing the possibilty or rusting? Just a thought! [:p][:D][8D] Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 2:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Reply Edit locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 9:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Very much agreed. Maybe 'law' needs to be changed. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:53 PM Think this thread has been beaten in the ground long enough. Please;let's end this thread, and go on to something else, other than graffiti. I agree with Larry (Tree 068): a piece of chalk would be nice, instead of a spray can. (not condoning anything.) It's still vandalism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Reply Edit Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Too late.... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:20 PM A brief glimpse into the mind of a graffiti "artist": By PAT MILTON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - A renowned graffiti artist, arrested last year for defacing the facade of a Bronx building, is back in everyone's good graces after spray-painting — with permission — a bright red-and-gold tribute to Pope John Paul II. James De La Vega's latest work, painted on the security gate of a Spanish Harlem storefront, was created to bring hope to the poor and struggling in his Manhattan neighborhood, he said Wednesday. "This Pope understood pain and tried to relieve it," said De La Vega, 32, standing in front of the artwork. The "God's Revolutionary" mural portrays a praying pope looking at a crucified Christ as a man with his head bowed stands off in the distance. It took De La Vega two hours to complete Sunday, and he hopes it becomes a permanent installation. As De La Vega spoke, several people paused to look at the mural; one man made the sign of the cross, while another kissed the religious medal around his neck. The artist returned to Spanish Harlem after graduating with an art degree from Cornell University in 1993. He used the brick facades as his canvas and the sidewalks as his chalkboard. On one wall he depicted the Last Supper, painting black and white skeletons at the table instead of the apostles, to underscore the poverty of the Harlem streets. Last July, De La Vega was arrested for painting a fish jumping out of a bowl on the brick wall of a Bronx building without approval. He was convicted by a judge of graffiti and criminal mischief, and ordered to serve 50 hours of community service. His brush with the law did nothing to dampen De La Vega's enthusiasm for his work. "Most poor people don't visit galleries," De La Vega said. "More people look at my artwork than visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_re_us/pope_art Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Thank you. trainluver1 Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 3:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:40 PM You should be happy that your car has an xtra(sic) coat of paint on it. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,011 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:48 PM Psst - Hey, bring your shiny new automobile over here. I've got the paint cans ready and we'll paint a really neat design on it for you. How does "Digger" sound? We can paint something different for you on the other side, too. Sorry if we cover up the windows. It would mess up the design if we didn't. You can always scrape them off if you need to see out of them... Or replace them. It won't cost you much. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:08 PM I think someone's been mis-using the quote option on this topic... That, or they're making fun of a serious subject. Vandalism is a serious matter. It cost money to repair or repaint things that have been messed up by kids that don't have anything better to do, and if it's a government owned item that's been vandalized, the money to repair it comes out of the tax payers pockets, and guess who the tax payers are... If I ever see anyone spray painting anything I'm calling the cops, just as I will if I see them throw their trash out their car window after leaving a fast food place like I've done before and testified against them at the hearing which cost them a $500.00 fine. No, it's none of my business what other people do-as long as they're obeying the law, and the same goes for me. trainluver1 Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:50 AM Actually the reverse is true. The more coats of paint you put on a object the less likely it is it will rust! [:p][:D] Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 11, 2005 12:45 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] you both have some issues... but if your going to call this fellow a liberal, well call you a nazi. theres only one way of doing things.... right? Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:32 PM There you go set up a sting & catch them in the act. Much better then moaning & groaning about something that nobody on this board can correct. [:o)][:D][:p] Originally posted by trainluver1 Originally posted by Hugh Jampton Originally posted by spbed Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. The best thing to do is just call the police and report it, and let them sneak up on the taggers and catch them in the act. trainluver1 Reply Edit Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:32 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:01 AM Well I for one sort of enjoy it as a railfan & see what some fertile minds may create. Like the auto racker I saw painted with a hugh #5 in tribute I guess for the driver who got likked at Daytona[:p][:)] Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] Whatever anybody else may say since RR cars are usually in the open air subject to rain, snow, wind, sand storms, etc common sense would say the more coats of paint you have on something the less likely is it will rust. [:o)][:D] Peace in the end you & I & all on this board can do nothing to change it so why worry about it? [:p][:)][:D] I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Originally posted by ben10ben Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:14 PM Recently I saw a lead eng on a BNSF which on the condrs side, the entire BNSF on the eng body was painted over by junk. Made me sick just to look at it. I would like to take whoever did it and wrap their head in a vise and squeez it shut. On a unrelated note, about 10 yrs ago there was a yd crew in KS which spray painted '2 dead crew' on a brand new private firm lease hopper car. It did not take much fact finding to discover who did it. They were warned not to do it again. Some of the junk painted on rolling stock is inside jobs coming from rr people themselves. Quite sad. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Hee Hoo! Wow, you really "coasted" far out into left field on that one, buddy! You made a lot of assumptions about me without ever knowing me. Your babbling proved intriguing to read, but please leave your paranoid ranting and creepy "liberal conspiracy" agendas out of the topic next time. "Mind expanding drugs"...wow. Where'd you get that one? Well, if I wasn't so prone to logic, I might be liable to make some assumptions about you, too - maybe stating something about how you're probably quite an old, cranky, and joyless fellow, maybe a bit paranoid, maybe a bit too plugged in on the Fox News, maybe not the happiest person on this forum. This was originally about graffiti (the legality of which I never argued about nor defended), but you seem to have, in a very Tom Delay-esque style, wanted to turn it into some whiney partisan (or ideological, as you called it, which is actually quite similar) bickering. Oh, I am taunted to play your childish game with you, but I think for now I'll refrain. See, I actually try to act my age, where as you seem, like most juvenile spoiled brats who're stuck in grown men's bodies, to have trouble with that. Contrary to your presumptuous belief that I am somehow a liberal (the thought actually quite nauseates me if you must know), I actually prescribe to the belief of OBJECTIVISM, which is not prescribing nor conforming to a pre-set, partisan code of beliefs, but rather OBJECTIVELY analyzing and deciding for yourself. I see good and bad in both left-wing and right-wing trains of thought. NOthing is ever black and white. You, it seems, prefer to choose the other path, of labeling and name-calling, of sticking to party lines. I know your type, and they do not seem like happy people. They seem rather angry. And they tend to live short lives. All that stress and anger tends to wear on the circulatory system, a bit , you know. Perhaps you're a bit overweight as well. It's a shame, really, that I had to go from trying to offer a contrasting point of view on this subject, to defending myself against an old angry crank like yourself. Please, we should let this thread die. And in the future, lets try to exchange thoughts about this in a MATURE manner, without the presumptions and name-calling from both sides. It doesn't always hurt so much to act one's age. -joe Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 3:25 PM So once more... Graffiti bad. People that paint graffiti bad. Liberals or people that are willing to tolerate it bad. Me and the rest of the anti-graffiti folks on the topic good... trainluver1 Reply Edit siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, April 9, 2005 12:41 PM I don't like it and cannot find any redeeming value with it whatsoever, especailly on trains ........ Other people's property is simply that - others! Kinda feel about it the way I do regarding: (1) Warm beer (2) Wet toilet paper (3) Politically correct thinkers Happy Railroading! Siberianmo Reply ben10ben Member sinceJanuary 2003 From: Frankfort, Kentucky 1,758 posts Posted by ben10ben on Saturday, April 9, 2005 11:28 AM Those of you saying that graffitti prolongs the life of the car would do well to read the post on page 1 by AntonioFP45. In addition, if a vandal(yes, that's what they are) paints over the road numbers or other identification information on the car, the railroad has no other choice but to take it out of service and at least repaint that information on the car. Like it or not, that costs money to do, which is passed on to us in one way or another eventually(trickle down economics). I really see it as a sign of a sad world when people make excuses for something that is so clearly vandalism with no benefit whatsoever. Ben TCA 09-63474 Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 9, 2005 7:11 AM H'mm did you ever consider that the painters are benefiting the RRs by adding paint to the RR cars reducing the possibilty or rusting? Just a thought! [:p][:D][8D] Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 2:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Reply Edit locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 9:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Very much agreed. Maybe 'law' needs to be changed. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:53 PM Think this thread has been beaten in the ground long enough. Please;let's end this thread, and go on to something else, other than graffiti. I agree with Larry (Tree 068): a piece of chalk would be nice, instead of a spray can. (not condoning anything.) It's still vandalism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Reply Edit Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Too late.... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:20 PM A brief glimpse into the mind of a graffiti "artist": By PAT MILTON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - A renowned graffiti artist, arrested last year for defacing the facade of a Bronx building, is back in everyone's good graces after spray-painting — with permission — a bright red-and-gold tribute to Pope John Paul II. James De La Vega's latest work, painted on the security gate of a Spanish Harlem storefront, was created to bring hope to the poor and struggling in his Manhattan neighborhood, he said Wednesday. "This Pope understood pain and tried to relieve it," said De La Vega, 32, standing in front of the artwork. The "God's Revolutionary" mural portrays a praying pope looking at a crucified Christ as a man with his head bowed stands off in the distance. It took De La Vega two hours to complete Sunday, and he hopes it becomes a permanent installation. As De La Vega spoke, several people paused to look at the mural; one man made the sign of the cross, while another kissed the religious medal around his neck. The artist returned to Spanish Harlem after graduating with an art degree from Cornell University in 1993. He used the brick facades as his canvas and the sidewalks as his chalkboard. On one wall he depicted the Last Supper, painting black and white skeletons at the table instead of the apostles, to underscore the poverty of the Harlem streets. Last July, De La Vega was arrested for painting a fish jumping out of a bowl on the brick wall of a Bronx building without approval. He was convicted by a judge of graffiti and criminal mischief, and ordered to serve 50 hours of community service. His brush with the law did nothing to dampen De La Vega's enthusiasm for his work. "Most poor people don't visit galleries," De La Vega said. "More people look at my artwork than visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_re_us/pope_art Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Thank you. trainluver1 Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 3:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:40 PM You should be happy that your car has an xtra(sic) coat of paint on it. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,011 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:48 PM Psst - Hey, bring your shiny new automobile over here. I've got the paint cans ready and we'll paint a really neat design on it for you. How does "Digger" sound? We can paint something different for you on the other side, too. Sorry if we cover up the windows. It would mess up the design if we didn't. You can always scrape them off if you need to see out of them... Or replace them. It won't cost you much. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:08 PM I think someone's been mis-using the quote option on this topic... That, or they're making fun of a serious subject. Vandalism is a serious matter. It cost money to repair or repaint things that have been messed up by kids that don't have anything better to do, and if it's a government owned item that's been vandalized, the money to repair it comes out of the tax payers pockets, and guess who the tax payers are... If I ever see anyone spray painting anything I'm calling the cops, just as I will if I see them throw their trash out their car window after leaving a fast food place like I've done before and testified against them at the hearing which cost them a $500.00 fine. No, it's none of my business what other people do-as long as they're obeying the law, and the same goes for me. trainluver1 Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:50 AM Actually the reverse is true. The more coats of paint you put on a object the less likely it is it will rust! [:p][:D] Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 11, 2005 12:45 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] you both have some issues... but if your going to call this fellow a liberal, well call you a nazi. theres only one way of doing things.... right? Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:32 PM There you go set up a sting & catch them in the act. Much better then moaning & groaning about something that nobody on this board can correct. [:o)][:D][:p] Originally posted by trainluver1 Originally posted by Hugh Jampton Originally posted by spbed Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. The best thing to do is just call the police and report it, and let them sneak up on the taggers and catch them in the act. trainluver1 Reply Edit Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:32 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:01 AM Well I for one sort of enjoy it as a railfan & see what some fertile minds may create. Like the auto racker I saw painted with a hugh #5 in tribute I guess for the driver who got likked at Daytona[:p][:)] Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] Whatever anybody else may say since RR cars are usually in the open air subject to rain, snow, wind, sand storms, etc common sense would say the more coats of paint you have on something the less likely is it will rust. [:o)][:D] Peace in the end you & I & all on this board can do nothing to change it so why worry about it? [:p][:)][:D] I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Originally posted by ben10ben Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:14 PM Recently I saw a lead eng on a BNSF which on the condrs side, the entire BNSF on the eng body was painted over by junk. Made me sick just to look at it. I would like to take whoever did it and wrap their head in a vise and squeez it shut. On a unrelated note, about 10 yrs ago there was a yd crew in KS which spray painted '2 dead crew' on a brand new private firm lease hopper car. It did not take much fact finding to discover who did it. They were warned not to do it again. Some of the junk painted on rolling stock is inside jobs coming from rr people themselves. Quite sad. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Hee Hoo! Wow, you really "coasted" far out into left field on that one, buddy! You made a lot of assumptions about me without ever knowing me. Your babbling proved intriguing to read, but please leave your paranoid ranting and creepy "liberal conspiracy" agendas out of the topic next time. "Mind expanding drugs"...wow. Where'd you get that one? Well, if I wasn't so prone to logic, I might be liable to make some assumptions about you, too - maybe stating something about how you're probably quite an old, cranky, and joyless fellow, maybe a bit paranoid, maybe a bit too plugged in on the Fox News, maybe not the happiest person on this forum. This was originally about graffiti (the legality of which I never argued about nor defended), but you seem to have, in a very Tom Delay-esque style, wanted to turn it into some whiney partisan (or ideological, as you called it, which is actually quite similar) bickering. Oh, I am taunted to play your childish game with you, but I think for now I'll refrain. See, I actually try to act my age, where as you seem, like most juvenile spoiled brats who're stuck in grown men's bodies, to have trouble with that. Contrary to your presumptuous belief that I am somehow a liberal (the thought actually quite nauseates me if you must know), I actually prescribe to the belief of OBJECTIVISM, which is not prescribing nor conforming to a pre-set, partisan code of beliefs, but rather OBJECTIVELY analyzing and deciding for yourself. I see good and bad in both left-wing and right-wing trains of thought. NOthing is ever black and white. You, it seems, prefer to choose the other path, of labeling and name-calling, of sticking to party lines. I know your type, and they do not seem like happy people. They seem rather angry. And they tend to live short lives. All that stress and anger tends to wear on the circulatory system, a bit , you know. Perhaps you're a bit overweight as well. It's a shame, really, that I had to go from trying to offer a contrasting point of view on this subject, to defending myself against an old angry crank like yourself. Please, we should let this thread die. And in the future, lets try to exchange thoughts about this in a MATURE manner, without the presumptions and name-calling from both sides. It doesn't always hurt so much to act one's age. -joe Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 3:25 PM So once more... Graffiti bad. People that paint graffiti bad. Liberals or people that are willing to tolerate it bad. Me and the rest of the anti-graffiti folks on the topic good... trainluver1 Reply Edit siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, April 9, 2005 12:41 PM I don't like it and cannot find any redeeming value with it whatsoever, especailly on trains ........ Other people's property is simply that - others! Kinda feel about it the way I do regarding: (1) Warm beer (2) Wet toilet paper (3) Politically correct thinkers Happy Railroading! Siberianmo Reply ben10ben Member sinceJanuary 2003 From: Frankfort, Kentucky 1,758 posts Posted by ben10ben on Saturday, April 9, 2005 11:28 AM Those of you saying that graffitti prolongs the life of the car would do well to read the post on page 1 by AntonioFP45. In addition, if a vandal(yes, that's what they are) paints over the road numbers or other identification information on the car, the railroad has no other choice but to take it out of service and at least repaint that information on the car. Like it or not, that costs money to do, which is passed on to us in one way or another eventually(trickle down economics). I really see it as a sign of a sad world when people make excuses for something that is so clearly vandalism with no benefit whatsoever. Ben TCA 09-63474 Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 9, 2005 7:11 AM H'mm did you ever consider that the painters are benefiting the RRs by adding paint to the RR cars reducing the possibilty or rusting? Just a thought! [:p][:D][8D] Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 2:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Reply Edit locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 9:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Very much agreed. Maybe 'law' needs to be changed. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:53 PM Think this thread has been beaten in the ground long enough. Please;let's end this thread, and go on to something else, other than graffiti. I agree with Larry (Tree 068): a piece of chalk would be nice, instead of a spray can. (not condoning anything.) It's still vandalism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Reply Edit Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Too late.... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:20 PM A brief glimpse into the mind of a graffiti "artist": By PAT MILTON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - A renowned graffiti artist, arrested last year for defacing the facade of a Bronx building, is back in everyone's good graces after spray-painting — with permission — a bright red-and-gold tribute to Pope John Paul II. James De La Vega's latest work, painted on the security gate of a Spanish Harlem storefront, was created to bring hope to the poor and struggling in his Manhattan neighborhood, he said Wednesday. "This Pope understood pain and tried to relieve it," said De La Vega, 32, standing in front of the artwork. The "God's Revolutionary" mural portrays a praying pope looking at a crucified Christ as a man with his head bowed stands off in the distance. It took De La Vega two hours to complete Sunday, and he hopes it becomes a permanent installation. As De La Vega spoke, several people paused to look at the mural; one man made the sign of the cross, while another kissed the religious medal around his neck. The artist returned to Spanish Harlem after graduating with an art degree from Cornell University in 1993. He used the brick facades as his canvas and the sidewalks as his chalkboard. On one wall he depicted the Last Supper, painting black and white skeletons at the table instead of the apostles, to underscore the poverty of the Harlem streets. Last July, De La Vega was arrested for painting a fish jumping out of a bowl on the brick wall of a Bronx building without approval. He was convicted by a judge of graffiti and criminal mischief, and ordered to serve 50 hours of community service. His brush with the law did nothing to dampen De La Vega's enthusiasm for his work. "Most poor people don't visit galleries," De La Vega said. "More people look at my artwork than visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_re_us/pope_art Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Thank you. trainluver1 Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 3:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:40 PM You should be happy that your car has an xtra(sic) coat of paint on it. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,011 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:48 PM Psst - Hey, bring your shiny new automobile over here. I've got the paint cans ready and we'll paint a really neat design on it for you. How does "Digger" sound? We can paint something different for you on the other side, too. Sorry if we cover up the windows. It would mess up the design if we didn't. You can always scrape them off if you need to see out of them... Or replace them. It won't cost you much. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:08 PM I think someone's been mis-using the quote option on this topic... That, or they're making fun of a serious subject. Vandalism is a serious matter. It cost money to repair or repaint things that have been messed up by kids that don't have anything better to do, and if it's a government owned item that's been vandalized, the money to repair it comes out of the tax payers pockets, and guess who the tax payers are... If I ever see anyone spray painting anything I'm calling the cops, just as I will if I see them throw their trash out their car window after leaving a fast food place like I've done before and testified against them at the hearing which cost them a $500.00 fine. No, it's none of my business what other people do-as long as they're obeying the law, and the same goes for me. trainluver1 Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:50 AM Actually the reverse is true. The more coats of paint you put on a object the less likely it is it will rust! [:p][:D] Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 11, 2005 12:45 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] you both have some issues... but if your going to call this fellow a liberal, well call you a nazi. theres only one way of doing things.... right? Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:32 PM There you go set up a sting & catch them in the act. Much better then moaning & groaning about something that nobody on this board can correct. [:o)][:D][:p] Originally posted by trainluver1 Originally posted by Hugh Jampton Originally posted by spbed Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. The best thing to do is just call the police and report it, and let them sneak up on the taggers and catch them in the act. trainluver1 Reply Edit Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:32 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:01 AM Well I for one sort of enjoy it as a railfan & see what some fertile minds may create. Like the auto racker I saw painted with a hugh #5 in tribute I guess for the driver who got likked at Daytona[:p][:)] Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] Whatever anybody else may say since RR cars are usually in the open air subject to rain, snow, wind, sand storms, etc common sense would say the more coats of paint you have on something the less likely is it will rust. [:o)][:D] Peace in the end you & I & all on this board can do nothing to change it so why worry about it? [:p][:)][:D] I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Originally posted by ben10ben Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:14 PM Recently I saw a lead eng on a BNSF which on the condrs side, the entire BNSF on the eng body was painted over by junk. Made me sick just to look at it. I would like to take whoever did it and wrap their head in a vise and squeez it shut. On a unrelated note, about 10 yrs ago there was a yd crew in KS which spray painted '2 dead crew' on a brand new private firm lease hopper car. It did not take much fact finding to discover who did it. They were warned not to do it again. Some of the junk painted on rolling stock is inside jobs coming from rr people themselves. Quite sad. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Hee Hoo! Wow, you really "coasted" far out into left field on that one, buddy! You made a lot of assumptions about me without ever knowing me. Your babbling proved intriguing to read, but please leave your paranoid ranting and creepy "liberal conspiracy" agendas out of the topic next time. "Mind expanding drugs"...wow. Where'd you get that one? Well, if I wasn't so prone to logic, I might be liable to make some assumptions about you, too - maybe stating something about how you're probably quite an old, cranky, and joyless fellow, maybe a bit paranoid, maybe a bit too plugged in on the Fox News, maybe not the happiest person on this forum. This was originally about graffiti (the legality of which I never argued about nor defended), but you seem to have, in a very Tom Delay-esque style, wanted to turn it into some whiney partisan (or ideological, as you called it, which is actually quite similar) bickering. Oh, I am taunted to play your childish game with you, but I think for now I'll refrain. See, I actually try to act my age, where as you seem, like most juvenile spoiled brats who're stuck in grown men's bodies, to have trouble with that. Contrary to your presumptuous belief that I am somehow a liberal (the thought actually quite nauseates me if you must know), I actually prescribe to the belief of OBJECTIVISM, which is not prescribing nor conforming to a pre-set, partisan code of beliefs, but rather OBJECTIVELY analyzing and deciding for yourself. I see good and bad in both left-wing and right-wing trains of thought. NOthing is ever black and white. You, it seems, prefer to choose the other path, of labeling and name-calling, of sticking to party lines. I know your type, and they do not seem like happy people. They seem rather angry. And they tend to live short lives. All that stress and anger tends to wear on the circulatory system, a bit , you know. Perhaps you're a bit overweight as well. It's a shame, really, that I had to go from trying to offer a contrasting point of view on this subject, to defending myself against an old angry crank like yourself. Please, we should let this thread die. And in the future, lets try to exchange thoughts about this in a MATURE manner, without the presumptions and name-calling from both sides. It doesn't always hurt so much to act one's age. -joe Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 3:25 PM So once more... Graffiti bad. People that paint graffiti bad. Liberals or people that are willing to tolerate it bad. Me and the rest of the anti-graffiti folks on the topic good... trainluver1 Reply Edit siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, April 9, 2005 12:41 PM I don't like it and cannot find any redeeming value with it whatsoever, especailly on trains ........ Other people's property is simply that - others! Kinda feel about it the way I do regarding: (1) Warm beer (2) Wet toilet paper (3) Politically correct thinkers Happy Railroading! Siberianmo Reply ben10ben Member sinceJanuary 2003 From: Frankfort, Kentucky 1,758 posts Posted by ben10ben on Saturday, April 9, 2005 11:28 AM Those of you saying that graffitti prolongs the life of the car would do well to read the post on page 1 by AntonioFP45. In addition, if a vandal(yes, that's what they are) paints over the road numbers or other identification information on the car, the railroad has no other choice but to take it out of service and at least repaint that information on the car. Like it or not, that costs money to do, which is passed on to us in one way or another eventually(trickle down economics). I really see it as a sign of a sad world when people make excuses for something that is so clearly vandalism with no benefit whatsoever. Ben TCA 09-63474 Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 9, 2005 7:11 AM H'mm did you ever consider that the painters are benefiting the RRs by adding paint to the RR cars reducing the possibilty or rusting? Just a thought! [:p][:D][8D] Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 2:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Reply Edit locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 9:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Very much agreed. Maybe 'law' needs to be changed. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:53 PM Think this thread has been beaten in the ground long enough. Please;let's end this thread, and go on to something else, other than graffiti. I agree with Larry (Tree 068): a piece of chalk would be nice, instead of a spray can. (not condoning anything.) It's still vandalism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Reply Edit Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Too late.... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:20 PM A brief glimpse into the mind of a graffiti "artist": By PAT MILTON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - A renowned graffiti artist, arrested last year for defacing the facade of a Bronx building, is back in everyone's good graces after spray-painting — with permission — a bright red-and-gold tribute to Pope John Paul II. James De La Vega's latest work, painted on the security gate of a Spanish Harlem storefront, was created to bring hope to the poor and struggling in his Manhattan neighborhood, he said Wednesday. "This Pope understood pain and tried to relieve it," said De La Vega, 32, standing in front of the artwork. The "God's Revolutionary" mural portrays a praying pope looking at a crucified Christ as a man with his head bowed stands off in the distance. It took De La Vega two hours to complete Sunday, and he hopes it becomes a permanent installation. As De La Vega spoke, several people paused to look at the mural; one man made the sign of the cross, while another kissed the religious medal around his neck. The artist returned to Spanish Harlem after graduating with an art degree from Cornell University in 1993. He used the brick facades as his canvas and the sidewalks as his chalkboard. On one wall he depicted the Last Supper, painting black and white skeletons at the table instead of the apostles, to underscore the poverty of the Harlem streets. Last July, De La Vega was arrested for painting a fish jumping out of a bowl on the brick wall of a Bronx building without approval. He was convicted by a judge of graffiti and criminal mischief, and ordered to serve 50 hours of community service. His brush with the law did nothing to dampen De La Vega's enthusiasm for his work. "Most poor people don't visit galleries," De La Vega said. "More people look at my artwork than visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_re_us/pope_art Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Thank you. trainluver1 Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 3:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:40 PM You should be happy that your car has an xtra(sic) coat of paint on it. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,011 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:48 PM Psst - Hey, bring your shiny new automobile over here. I've got the paint cans ready and we'll paint a really neat design on it for you. How does "Digger" sound? We can paint something different for you on the other side, too. Sorry if we cover up the windows. It would mess up the design if we didn't. You can always scrape them off if you need to see out of them... Or replace them. It won't cost you much. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:08 PM I think someone's been mis-using the quote option on this topic... That, or they're making fun of a serious subject. Vandalism is a serious matter. It cost money to repair or repaint things that have been messed up by kids that don't have anything better to do, and if it's a government owned item that's been vandalized, the money to repair it comes out of the tax payers pockets, and guess who the tax payers are... If I ever see anyone spray painting anything I'm calling the cops, just as I will if I see them throw their trash out their car window after leaving a fast food place like I've done before and testified against them at the hearing which cost them a $500.00 fine. No, it's none of my business what other people do-as long as they're obeying the law, and the same goes for me. trainluver1 Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:50 AM Actually the reverse is true. The more coats of paint you put on a object the less likely it is it will rust! [:p][:D] Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox]
QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds.
QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things.
QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying.
Originally posted by trainluver1 Originally posted by Hugh Jampton Originally posted by spbed Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. The best thing to do is just call the police and report it, and let them sneak up on the taggers and catch them in the act. trainluver1 Reply Edit Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:32 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:01 AM Well I for one sort of enjoy it as a railfan & see what some fertile minds may create. Like the auto racker I saw painted with a hugh #5 in tribute I guess for the driver who got likked at Daytona[:p][:)] Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] Whatever anybody else may say since RR cars are usually in the open air subject to rain, snow, wind, sand storms, etc common sense would say the more coats of paint you have on something the less likely is it will rust. [:o)][:D] Peace in the end you & I & all on this board can do nothing to change it so why worry about it? [:p][:)][:D] I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Originally posted by ben10ben Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:14 PM Recently I saw a lead eng on a BNSF which on the condrs side, the entire BNSF on the eng body was painted over by junk. Made me sick just to look at it. I would like to take whoever did it and wrap their head in a vise and squeez it shut. On a unrelated note, about 10 yrs ago there was a yd crew in KS which spray painted '2 dead crew' on a brand new private firm lease hopper car. It did not take much fact finding to discover who did it. They were warned not to do it again. Some of the junk painted on rolling stock is inside jobs coming from rr people themselves. Quite sad. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Hee Hoo! Wow, you really "coasted" far out into left field on that one, buddy! You made a lot of assumptions about me without ever knowing me. Your babbling proved intriguing to read, but please leave your paranoid ranting and creepy "liberal conspiracy" agendas out of the topic next time. "Mind expanding drugs"...wow. Where'd you get that one? Well, if I wasn't so prone to logic, I might be liable to make some assumptions about you, too - maybe stating something about how you're probably quite an old, cranky, and joyless fellow, maybe a bit paranoid, maybe a bit too plugged in on the Fox News, maybe not the happiest person on this forum. This was originally about graffiti (the legality of which I never argued about nor defended), but you seem to have, in a very Tom Delay-esque style, wanted to turn it into some whiney partisan (or ideological, as you called it, which is actually quite similar) bickering. Oh, I am taunted to play your childish game with you, but I think for now I'll refrain. See, I actually try to act my age, where as you seem, like most juvenile spoiled brats who're stuck in grown men's bodies, to have trouble with that. Contrary to your presumptuous belief that I am somehow a liberal (the thought actually quite nauseates me if you must know), I actually prescribe to the belief of OBJECTIVISM, which is not prescribing nor conforming to a pre-set, partisan code of beliefs, but rather OBJECTIVELY analyzing and deciding for yourself. I see good and bad in both left-wing and right-wing trains of thought. NOthing is ever black and white. You, it seems, prefer to choose the other path, of labeling and name-calling, of sticking to party lines. I know your type, and they do not seem like happy people. They seem rather angry. And they tend to live short lives. All that stress and anger tends to wear on the circulatory system, a bit , you know. Perhaps you're a bit overweight as well. It's a shame, really, that I had to go from trying to offer a contrasting point of view on this subject, to defending myself against an old angry crank like yourself. Please, we should let this thread die. And in the future, lets try to exchange thoughts about this in a MATURE manner, without the presumptions and name-calling from both sides. It doesn't always hurt so much to act one's age. -joe Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 3:25 PM So once more... Graffiti bad. People that paint graffiti bad. Liberals or people that are willing to tolerate it bad. Me and the rest of the anti-graffiti folks on the topic good... trainluver1 Reply Edit siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, April 9, 2005 12:41 PM I don't like it and cannot find any redeeming value with it whatsoever, especailly on trains ........ Other people's property is simply that - others! Kinda feel about it the way I do regarding: (1) Warm beer (2) Wet toilet paper (3) Politically correct thinkers Happy Railroading! Siberianmo Reply ben10ben Member sinceJanuary 2003 From: Frankfort, Kentucky 1,758 posts Posted by ben10ben on Saturday, April 9, 2005 11:28 AM Those of you saying that graffitti prolongs the life of the car would do well to read the post on page 1 by AntonioFP45. In addition, if a vandal(yes, that's what they are) paints over the road numbers or other identification information on the car, the railroad has no other choice but to take it out of service and at least repaint that information on the car. Like it or not, that costs money to do, which is passed on to us in one way or another eventually(trickle down economics). I really see it as a sign of a sad world when people make excuses for something that is so clearly vandalism with no benefit whatsoever. Ben TCA 09-63474 Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 9, 2005 7:11 AM H'mm did you ever consider that the painters are benefiting the RRs by adding paint to the RR cars reducing the possibilty or rusting? Just a thought! [:p][:D][8D] Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 2:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Reply Edit locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 9:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Very much agreed. Maybe 'law' needs to be changed. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:53 PM Think this thread has been beaten in the ground long enough. Please;let's end this thread, and go on to something else, other than graffiti. I agree with Larry (Tree 068): a piece of chalk would be nice, instead of a spray can. (not condoning anything.) It's still vandalism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Reply Edit Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Too late.... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:20 PM A brief glimpse into the mind of a graffiti "artist": By PAT MILTON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - A renowned graffiti artist, arrested last year for defacing the facade of a Bronx building, is back in everyone's good graces after spray-painting — with permission — a bright red-and-gold tribute to Pope John Paul II. James De La Vega's latest work, painted on the security gate of a Spanish Harlem storefront, was created to bring hope to the poor and struggling in his Manhattan neighborhood, he said Wednesday. "This Pope understood pain and tried to relieve it," said De La Vega, 32, standing in front of the artwork. The "God's Revolutionary" mural portrays a praying pope looking at a crucified Christ as a man with his head bowed stands off in the distance. It took De La Vega two hours to complete Sunday, and he hopes it becomes a permanent installation. As De La Vega spoke, several people paused to look at the mural; one man made the sign of the cross, while another kissed the religious medal around his neck. The artist returned to Spanish Harlem after graduating with an art degree from Cornell University in 1993. He used the brick facades as his canvas and the sidewalks as his chalkboard. On one wall he depicted the Last Supper, painting black and white skeletons at the table instead of the apostles, to underscore the poverty of the Harlem streets. Last July, De La Vega was arrested for painting a fish jumping out of a bowl on the brick wall of a Bronx building without approval. He was convicted by a judge of graffiti and criminal mischief, and ordered to serve 50 hours of community service. His brush with the law did nothing to dampen De La Vega's enthusiasm for his work. "Most poor people don't visit galleries," De La Vega said. "More people look at my artwork than visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_re_us/pope_art Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Thank you. trainluver1 Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 3:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:40 PM You should be happy that your car has an xtra(sic) coat of paint on it. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,011 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:48 PM Psst - Hey, bring your shiny new automobile over here. I've got the paint cans ready and we'll paint a really neat design on it for you. How does "Digger" sound? We can paint something different for you on the other side, too. Sorry if we cover up the windows. It would mess up the design if we didn't. You can always scrape them off if you need to see out of them... Or replace them. It won't cost you much. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:08 PM I think someone's been mis-using the quote option on this topic... That, or they're making fun of a serious subject. Vandalism is a serious matter. It cost money to repair or repaint things that have been messed up by kids that don't have anything better to do, and if it's a government owned item that's been vandalized, the money to repair it comes out of the tax payers pockets, and guess who the tax payers are... If I ever see anyone spray painting anything I'm calling the cops, just as I will if I see them throw their trash out their car window after leaving a fast food place like I've done before and testified against them at the hearing which cost them a $500.00 fine. No, it's none of my business what other people do-as long as they're obeying the law, and the same goes for me. trainluver1 Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:50 AM Actually the reverse is true. The more coats of paint you put on a object the less likely it is it will rust! [:p][:D] Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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Originally posted by Hugh Jampton Originally posted by spbed Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. The best thing to do is just call the police and report it, and let them sneak up on the taggers and catch them in the act. trainluver1 Reply Edit Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:32 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:01 AM Well I for one sort of enjoy it as a railfan & see what some fertile minds may create. Like the auto racker I saw painted with a hugh #5 in tribute I guess for the driver who got likked at Daytona[:p][:)] Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] Whatever anybody else may say since RR cars are usually in the open air subject to rain, snow, wind, sand storms, etc common sense would say the more coats of paint you have on something the less likely is it will rust. [:o)][:D] Peace in the end you & I & all on this board can do nothing to change it so why worry about it? [:p][:)][:D] I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Originally posted by ben10ben Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:14 PM Recently I saw a lead eng on a BNSF which on the condrs side, the entire BNSF on the eng body was painted over by junk. Made me sick just to look at it. I would like to take whoever did it and wrap their head in a vise and squeez it shut. On a unrelated note, about 10 yrs ago there was a yd crew in KS which spray painted '2 dead crew' on a brand new private firm lease hopper car. It did not take much fact finding to discover who did it. They were warned not to do it again. Some of the junk painted on rolling stock is inside jobs coming from rr people themselves. Quite sad. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Hee Hoo! Wow, you really "coasted" far out into left field on that one, buddy! You made a lot of assumptions about me without ever knowing me. Your babbling proved intriguing to read, but please leave your paranoid ranting and creepy "liberal conspiracy" agendas out of the topic next time. "Mind expanding drugs"...wow. Where'd you get that one? Well, if I wasn't so prone to logic, I might be liable to make some assumptions about you, too - maybe stating something about how you're probably quite an old, cranky, and joyless fellow, maybe a bit paranoid, maybe a bit too plugged in on the Fox News, maybe not the happiest person on this forum. This was originally about graffiti (the legality of which I never argued about nor defended), but you seem to have, in a very Tom Delay-esque style, wanted to turn it into some whiney partisan (or ideological, as you called it, which is actually quite similar) bickering. Oh, I am taunted to play your childish game with you, but I think for now I'll refrain. See, I actually try to act my age, where as you seem, like most juvenile spoiled brats who're stuck in grown men's bodies, to have trouble with that. Contrary to your presumptuous belief that I am somehow a liberal (the thought actually quite nauseates me if you must know), I actually prescribe to the belief of OBJECTIVISM, which is not prescribing nor conforming to a pre-set, partisan code of beliefs, but rather OBJECTIVELY analyzing and deciding for yourself. I see good and bad in both left-wing and right-wing trains of thought. NOthing is ever black and white. You, it seems, prefer to choose the other path, of labeling and name-calling, of sticking to party lines. I know your type, and they do not seem like happy people. They seem rather angry. And they tend to live short lives. All that stress and anger tends to wear on the circulatory system, a bit , you know. Perhaps you're a bit overweight as well. It's a shame, really, that I had to go from trying to offer a contrasting point of view on this subject, to defending myself against an old angry crank like yourself. Please, we should let this thread die. And in the future, lets try to exchange thoughts about this in a MATURE manner, without the presumptions and name-calling from both sides. It doesn't always hurt so much to act one's age. -joe Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 3:25 PM So once more... Graffiti bad. People that paint graffiti bad. Liberals or people that are willing to tolerate it bad. Me and the rest of the anti-graffiti folks on the topic good... trainluver1 Reply Edit siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, April 9, 2005 12:41 PM I don't like it and cannot find any redeeming value with it whatsoever, especailly on trains ........ Other people's property is simply that - others! Kinda feel about it the way I do regarding: (1) Warm beer (2) Wet toilet paper (3) Politically correct thinkers Happy Railroading! Siberianmo Reply ben10ben Member sinceJanuary 2003 From: Frankfort, Kentucky 1,758 posts Posted by ben10ben on Saturday, April 9, 2005 11:28 AM Those of you saying that graffitti prolongs the life of the car would do well to read the post on page 1 by AntonioFP45. In addition, if a vandal(yes, that's what they are) paints over the road numbers or other identification information on the car, the railroad has no other choice but to take it out of service and at least repaint that information on the car. Like it or not, that costs money to do, which is passed on to us in one way or another eventually(trickle down economics). I really see it as a sign of a sad world when people make excuses for something that is so clearly vandalism with no benefit whatsoever. Ben TCA 09-63474 Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 9, 2005 7:11 AM H'mm did you ever consider that the painters are benefiting the RRs by adding paint to the RR cars reducing the possibilty or rusting? Just a thought! [:p][:D][8D] Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 2:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Reply Edit locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 9:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Very much agreed. Maybe 'law' needs to be changed. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:53 PM Think this thread has been beaten in the ground long enough. Please;let's end this thread, and go on to something else, other than graffiti. I agree with Larry (Tree 068): a piece of chalk would be nice, instead of a spray can. (not condoning anything.) It's still vandalism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Reply Edit Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Too late.... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:20 PM A brief glimpse into the mind of a graffiti "artist": By PAT MILTON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - A renowned graffiti artist, arrested last year for defacing the facade of a Bronx building, is back in everyone's good graces after spray-painting — with permission — a bright red-and-gold tribute to Pope John Paul II. James De La Vega's latest work, painted on the security gate of a Spanish Harlem storefront, was created to bring hope to the poor and struggling in his Manhattan neighborhood, he said Wednesday. "This Pope understood pain and tried to relieve it," said De La Vega, 32, standing in front of the artwork. The "God's Revolutionary" mural portrays a praying pope looking at a crucified Christ as a man with his head bowed stands off in the distance. It took De La Vega two hours to complete Sunday, and he hopes it becomes a permanent installation. As De La Vega spoke, several people paused to look at the mural; one man made the sign of the cross, while another kissed the religious medal around his neck. The artist returned to Spanish Harlem after graduating with an art degree from Cornell University in 1993. He used the brick facades as his canvas and the sidewalks as his chalkboard. On one wall he depicted the Last Supper, painting black and white skeletons at the table instead of the apostles, to underscore the poverty of the Harlem streets. Last July, De La Vega was arrested for painting a fish jumping out of a bowl on the brick wall of a Bronx building without approval. He was convicted by a judge of graffiti and criminal mischief, and ordered to serve 50 hours of community service. His brush with the law did nothing to dampen De La Vega's enthusiasm for his work. "Most poor people don't visit galleries," De La Vega said. "More people look at my artwork than visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_re_us/pope_art Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Thank you. trainluver1 Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 3:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:40 PM You should be happy that your car has an xtra(sic) coat of paint on it. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,011 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:48 PM Psst - Hey, bring your shiny new automobile over here. I've got the paint cans ready and we'll paint a really neat design on it for you. How does "Digger" sound? We can paint something different for you on the other side, too. Sorry if we cover up the windows. It would mess up the design if we didn't. You can always scrape them off if you need to see out of them... Or replace them. It won't cost you much. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:08 PM I think someone's been mis-using the quote option on this topic... That, or they're making fun of a serious subject. Vandalism is a serious matter. It cost money to repair or repaint things that have been messed up by kids that don't have anything better to do, and if it's a government owned item that's been vandalized, the money to repair it comes out of the tax payers pockets, and guess who the tax payers are... If I ever see anyone spray painting anything I'm calling the cops, just as I will if I see them throw their trash out their car window after leaving a fast food place like I've done before and testified against them at the hearing which cost them a $500.00 fine. No, it's none of my business what other people do-as long as they're obeying the law, and the same goes for me. trainluver1 Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:50 AM Actually the reverse is true. The more coats of paint you put on a object the less likely it is it will rust! [:p][:D] Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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Originally posted by spbed Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. The best thing to do is just call the police and report it, and let them sneak up on the taggers and catch them in the act. trainluver1 Reply Edit Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:32 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:01 AM Well I for one sort of enjoy it as a railfan & see what some fertile minds may create. Like the auto racker I saw painted with a hugh #5 in tribute I guess for the driver who got likked at Daytona[:p][:)] Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] Whatever anybody else may say since RR cars are usually in the open air subject to rain, snow, wind, sand storms, etc common sense would say the more coats of paint you have on something the less likely is it will rust. [:o)][:D] Peace in the end you & I & all on this board can do nothing to change it so why worry about it? [:p][:)][:D] I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Originally posted by ben10ben Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:14 PM Recently I saw a lead eng on a BNSF which on the condrs side, the entire BNSF on the eng body was painted over by junk. Made me sick just to look at it. I would like to take whoever did it and wrap their head in a vise and squeez it shut. On a unrelated note, about 10 yrs ago there was a yd crew in KS which spray painted '2 dead crew' on a brand new private firm lease hopper car. It did not take much fact finding to discover who did it. They were warned not to do it again. Some of the junk painted on rolling stock is inside jobs coming from rr people themselves. Quite sad. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Hee Hoo! Wow, you really "coasted" far out into left field on that one, buddy! You made a lot of assumptions about me without ever knowing me. Your babbling proved intriguing to read, but please leave your paranoid ranting and creepy "liberal conspiracy" agendas out of the topic next time. "Mind expanding drugs"...wow. Where'd you get that one? Well, if I wasn't so prone to logic, I might be liable to make some assumptions about you, too - maybe stating something about how you're probably quite an old, cranky, and joyless fellow, maybe a bit paranoid, maybe a bit too plugged in on the Fox News, maybe not the happiest person on this forum. This was originally about graffiti (the legality of which I never argued about nor defended), but you seem to have, in a very Tom Delay-esque style, wanted to turn it into some whiney partisan (or ideological, as you called it, which is actually quite similar) bickering. Oh, I am taunted to play your childish game with you, but I think for now I'll refrain. See, I actually try to act my age, where as you seem, like most juvenile spoiled brats who're stuck in grown men's bodies, to have trouble with that. Contrary to your presumptuous belief that I am somehow a liberal (the thought actually quite nauseates me if you must know), I actually prescribe to the belief of OBJECTIVISM, which is not prescribing nor conforming to a pre-set, partisan code of beliefs, but rather OBJECTIVELY analyzing and deciding for yourself. I see good and bad in both left-wing and right-wing trains of thought. NOthing is ever black and white. You, it seems, prefer to choose the other path, of labeling and name-calling, of sticking to party lines. I know your type, and they do not seem like happy people. They seem rather angry. And they tend to live short lives. All that stress and anger tends to wear on the circulatory system, a bit , you know. Perhaps you're a bit overweight as well. It's a shame, really, that I had to go from trying to offer a contrasting point of view on this subject, to defending myself against an old angry crank like yourself. Please, we should let this thread die. And in the future, lets try to exchange thoughts about this in a MATURE manner, without the presumptions and name-calling from both sides. It doesn't always hurt so much to act one's age. -joe Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 3:25 PM So once more... Graffiti bad. People that paint graffiti bad. Liberals or people that are willing to tolerate it bad. Me and the rest of the anti-graffiti folks on the topic good... trainluver1 Reply Edit siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, April 9, 2005 12:41 PM I don't like it and cannot find any redeeming value with it whatsoever, especailly on trains ........ Other people's property is simply that - others! Kinda feel about it the way I do regarding: (1) Warm beer (2) Wet toilet paper (3) Politically correct thinkers Happy Railroading! Siberianmo Reply ben10ben Member sinceJanuary 2003 From: Frankfort, Kentucky 1,758 posts Posted by ben10ben on Saturday, April 9, 2005 11:28 AM Those of you saying that graffitti prolongs the life of the car would do well to read the post on page 1 by AntonioFP45. In addition, if a vandal(yes, that's what they are) paints over the road numbers or other identification information on the car, the railroad has no other choice but to take it out of service and at least repaint that information on the car. Like it or not, that costs money to do, which is passed on to us in one way or another eventually(trickle down economics). I really see it as a sign of a sad world when people make excuses for something that is so clearly vandalism with no benefit whatsoever. Ben TCA 09-63474 Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 9, 2005 7:11 AM H'mm did you ever consider that the painters are benefiting the RRs by adding paint to the RR cars reducing the possibilty or rusting? Just a thought! [:p][:D][8D] Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 2:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Reply Edit locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 9:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Very much agreed. Maybe 'law' needs to be changed. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:53 PM Think this thread has been beaten in the ground long enough. Please;let's end this thread, and go on to something else, other than graffiti. I agree with Larry (Tree 068): a piece of chalk would be nice, instead of a spray can. (not condoning anything.) It's still vandalism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Reply Edit Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Too late.... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:20 PM A brief glimpse into the mind of a graffiti "artist": By PAT MILTON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - A renowned graffiti artist, arrested last year for defacing the facade of a Bronx building, is back in everyone's good graces after spray-painting — with permission — a bright red-and-gold tribute to Pope John Paul II. James De La Vega's latest work, painted on the security gate of a Spanish Harlem storefront, was created to bring hope to the poor and struggling in his Manhattan neighborhood, he said Wednesday. "This Pope understood pain and tried to relieve it," said De La Vega, 32, standing in front of the artwork. The "God's Revolutionary" mural portrays a praying pope looking at a crucified Christ as a man with his head bowed stands off in the distance. It took De La Vega two hours to complete Sunday, and he hopes it becomes a permanent installation. As De La Vega spoke, several people paused to look at the mural; one man made the sign of the cross, while another kissed the religious medal around his neck. The artist returned to Spanish Harlem after graduating with an art degree from Cornell University in 1993. He used the brick facades as his canvas and the sidewalks as his chalkboard. On one wall he depicted the Last Supper, painting black and white skeletons at the table instead of the apostles, to underscore the poverty of the Harlem streets. Last July, De La Vega was arrested for painting a fish jumping out of a bowl on the brick wall of a Bronx building without approval. He was convicted by a judge of graffiti and criminal mischief, and ordered to serve 50 hours of community service. His brush with the law did nothing to dampen De La Vega's enthusiasm for his work. "Most poor people don't visit galleries," De La Vega said. "More people look at my artwork than visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_re_us/pope_art Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Thank you. trainluver1 Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 3:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:40 PM You should be happy that your car has an xtra(sic) coat of paint on it. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,011 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:48 PM Psst - Hey, bring your shiny new automobile over here. I've got the paint cans ready and we'll paint a really neat design on it for you. How does "Digger" sound? We can paint something different for you on the other side, too. Sorry if we cover up the windows. It would mess up the design if we didn't. You can always scrape them off if you need to see out of them... Or replace them. It won't cost you much. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:08 PM I think someone's been mis-using the quote option on this topic... That, or they're making fun of a serious subject. Vandalism is a serious matter. It cost money to repair or repaint things that have been messed up by kids that don't have anything better to do, and if it's a government owned item that's been vandalized, the money to repair it comes out of the tax payers pockets, and guess who the tax payers are... If I ever see anyone spray painting anything I'm calling the cops, just as I will if I see them throw their trash out their car window after leaving a fast food place like I've done before and testified against them at the hearing which cost them a $500.00 fine. No, it's none of my business what other people do-as long as they're obeying the law, and the same goes for me. trainluver1 Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:50 AM Actually the reverse is true. The more coats of paint you put on a object the less likely it is it will rust! [:p][:D] Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)] This may be true for freight cars,, but passenger trains are a whole other story. Many European railways have adopted a zero tolerance policy for their rolling stock, and it costs them millions a year to remove it. QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)] Try this and you're likely to get the crap beat out of you.
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Also if as you say it was such a bane they why does not the RR remove it? [:p][:)]
QUOTE: I do have a suggestion also if it bothers you & others as much as you posted o this forum why not stake out your local railyard & catch the painter & make a citizens arrest? [:D][:o)]
Originally posted by ben10ben Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:14 PM Recently I saw a lead eng on a BNSF which on the condrs side, the entire BNSF on the eng body was painted over by junk. Made me sick just to look at it. I would like to take whoever did it and wrap their head in a vise and squeez it shut. On a unrelated note, about 10 yrs ago there was a yd crew in KS which spray painted '2 dead crew' on a brand new private firm lease hopper car. It did not take much fact finding to discover who did it. They were warned not to do it again. Some of the junk painted on rolling stock is inside jobs coming from rr people themselves. Quite sad. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 9:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox]
QUOTE: Originally posted by San Diego Coaster
Originally posted by San Diego Coaster Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 2:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Reply Edit locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 9:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Very much agreed. Maybe 'law' needs to be changed. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:53 PM Think this thread has been beaten in the ground long enough. Please;let's end this thread, and go on to something else, other than graffiti. I agree with Larry (Tree 068): a piece of chalk would be nice, instead of a spray can. (not condoning anything.) It's still vandalism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Reply Edit Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Too late.... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:20 PM A brief glimpse into the mind of a graffiti "artist": By PAT MILTON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - A renowned graffiti artist, arrested last year for defacing the facade of a Bronx building, is back in everyone's good graces after spray-painting — with permission — a bright red-and-gold tribute to Pope John Paul II. James De La Vega's latest work, painted on the security gate of a Spanish Harlem storefront, was created to bring hope to the poor and struggling in his Manhattan neighborhood, he said Wednesday. "This Pope understood pain and tried to relieve it," said De La Vega, 32, standing in front of the artwork. The "God's Revolutionary" mural portrays a praying pope looking at a crucified Christ as a man with his head bowed stands off in the distance. It took De La Vega two hours to complete Sunday, and he hopes it becomes a permanent installation. As De La Vega spoke, several people paused to look at the mural; one man made the sign of the cross, while another kissed the religious medal around his neck. The artist returned to Spanish Harlem after graduating with an art degree from Cornell University in 1993. He used the brick facades as his canvas and the sidewalks as his chalkboard. On one wall he depicted the Last Supper, painting black and white skeletons at the table instead of the apostles, to underscore the poverty of the Harlem streets. Last July, De La Vega was arrested for painting a fish jumping out of a bowl on the brick wall of a Bronx building without approval. He was convicted by a judge of graffiti and criminal mischief, and ordered to serve 50 hours of community service. His brush with the law did nothing to dampen De La Vega's enthusiasm for his work. "Most poor people don't visit galleries," De La Vega said. "More people look at my artwork than visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_re_us/pope_art Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Thank you. trainluver1 Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 3:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:40 PM You should be happy that your car has an xtra(sic) coat of paint on it. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,011 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:48 PM Psst - Hey, bring your shiny new automobile over here. I've got the paint cans ready and we'll paint a really neat design on it for you. How does "Digger" sound? We can paint something different for you on the other side, too. Sorry if we cover up the windows. It would mess up the design if we didn't. You can always scrape them off if you need to see out of them... Or replace them. It won't cost you much. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:08 PM I think someone's been mis-using the quote option on this topic... That, or they're making fun of a serious subject. Vandalism is a serious matter. It cost money to repair or repaint things that have been messed up by kids that don't have anything better to do, and if it's a government owned item that's been vandalized, the money to repair it comes out of the tax payers pockets, and guess who the tax payers are... If I ever see anyone spray painting anything I'm calling the cops, just as I will if I see them throw their trash out their car window after leaving a fast food place like I've done before and testified against them at the hearing which cost them a $500.00 fine. No, it's none of my business what other people do-as long as they're obeying the law, and the same goes for me. trainluver1 Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:50 AM Actually the reverse is true. The more coats of paint you put on a object the less likely it is it will rust! [:p][:D] Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 2:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Reply Edit locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 9:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Very much agreed. Maybe 'law' needs to be changed. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:53 PM Think this thread has been beaten in the ground long enough. Please;let's end this thread, and go on to something else, other than graffiti. I agree with Larry (Tree 068): a piece of chalk would be nice, instead of a spray can. (not condoning anything.) It's still vandalism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Reply Edit Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Too late.... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:20 PM A brief glimpse into the mind of a graffiti "artist": By PAT MILTON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - A renowned graffiti artist, arrested last year for defacing the facade of a Bronx building, is back in everyone's good graces after spray-painting — with permission — a bright red-and-gold tribute to Pope John Paul II. James De La Vega's latest work, painted on the security gate of a Spanish Harlem storefront, was created to bring hope to the poor and struggling in his Manhattan neighborhood, he said Wednesday. "This Pope understood pain and tried to relieve it," said De La Vega, 32, standing in front of the artwork. The "God's Revolutionary" mural portrays a praying pope looking at a crucified Christ as a man with his head bowed stands off in the distance. It took De La Vega two hours to complete Sunday, and he hopes it becomes a permanent installation. As De La Vega spoke, several people paused to look at the mural; one man made the sign of the cross, while another kissed the religious medal around his neck. The artist returned to Spanish Harlem after graduating with an art degree from Cornell University in 1993. He used the brick facades as his canvas and the sidewalks as his chalkboard. On one wall he depicted the Last Supper, painting black and white skeletons at the table instead of the apostles, to underscore the poverty of the Harlem streets. Last July, De La Vega was arrested for painting a fish jumping out of a bowl on the brick wall of a Bronx building without approval. He was convicted by a judge of graffiti and criminal mischief, and ordered to serve 50 hours of community service. His brush with the law did nothing to dampen De La Vega's enthusiasm for his work. "Most poor people don't visit galleries," De La Vega said. "More people look at my artwork than visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_re_us/pope_art Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Thank you. trainluver1 Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 3:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:40 PM You should be happy that your car has an xtra(sic) coat of paint on it. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,011 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:48 PM Psst - Hey, bring your shiny new automobile over here. I've got the paint cans ready and we'll paint a really neat design on it for you. How does "Digger" sound? We can paint something different for you on the other side, too. Sorry if we cover up the windows. It would mess up the design if we didn't. You can always scrape them off if you need to see out of them... Or replace them. It won't cost you much. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:08 PM I think someone's been mis-using the quote option on this topic... That, or they're making fun of a serious subject. Vandalism is a serious matter. It cost money to repair or repaint things that have been messed up by kids that don't have anything better to do, and if it's a government owned item that's been vandalized, the money to repair it comes out of the tax payers pockets, and guess who the tax payers are... If I ever see anyone spray painting anything I'm calling the cops, just as I will if I see them throw their trash out their car window after leaving a fast food place like I've done before and testified against them at the hearing which cost them a $500.00 fine. No, it's none of my business what other people do-as long as they're obeying the law, and the same goes for me. trainluver1 Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:50 AM Actually the reverse is true. The more coats of paint you put on a object the less likely it is it will rust! [:p][:D] Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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Originally posted by MP57313 Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 2:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Reply Edit locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 9:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Very much agreed. Maybe 'law' needs to be changed. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:53 PM Think this thread has been beaten in the ground long enough. Please;let's end this thread, and go on to something else, other than graffiti. I agree with Larry (Tree 068): a piece of chalk would be nice, instead of a spray can. (not condoning anything.) It's still vandalism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Reply Edit Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Too late.... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:20 PM A brief glimpse into the mind of a graffiti "artist": By PAT MILTON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - A renowned graffiti artist, arrested last year for defacing the facade of a Bronx building, is back in everyone's good graces after spray-painting — with permission — a bright red-and-gold tribute to Pope John Paul II. James De La Vega's latest work, painted on the security gate of a Spanish Harlem storefront, was created to bring hope to the poor and struggling in his Manhattan neighborhood, he said Wednesday. "This Pope understood pain and tried to relieve it," said De La Vega, 32, standing in front of the artwork. The "God's Revolutionary" mural portrays a praying pope looking at a crucified Christ as a man with his head bowed stands off in the distance. It took De La Vega two hours to complete Sunday, and he hopes it becomes a permanent installation. As De La Vega spoke, several people paused to look at the mural; one man made the sign of the cross, while another kissed the religious medal around his neck. The artist returned to Spanish Harlem after graduating with an art degree from Cornell University in 1993. He used the brick facades as his canvas and the sidewalks as his chalkboard. On one wall he depicted the Last Supper, painting black and white skeletons at the table instead of the apostles, to underscore the poverty of the Harlem streets. Last July, De La Vega was arrested for painting a fish jumping out of a bowl on the brick wall of a Bronx building without approval. He was convicted by a judge of graffiti and criminal mischief, and ordered to serve 50 hours of community service. His brush with the law did nothing to dampen De La Vega's enthusiasm for his work. "Most poor people don't visit galleries," De La Vega said. "More people look at my artwork than visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_re_us/pope_art Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Thank you. trainluver1 Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 3:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:40 PM You should be happy that your car has an xtra(sic) coat of paint on it. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,011 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:48 PM Psst - Hey, bring your shiny new automobile over here. I've got the paint cans ready and we'll paint a really neat design on it for you. How does "Digger" sound? We can paint something different for you on the other side, too. Sorry if we cover up the windows. It would mess up the design if we didn't. You can always scrape them off if you need to see out of them... Or replace them. It won't cost you much. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:08 PM I think someone's been mis-using the quote option on this topic... That, or they're making fun of a serious subject. Vandalism is a serious matter. It cost money to repair or repaint things that have been messed up by kids that don't have anything better to do, and if it's a government owned item that's been vandalized, the money to repair it comes out of the tax payers pockets, and guess who the tax payers are... If I ever see anyone spray painting anything I'm calling the cops, just as I will if I see them throw their trash out their car window after leaving a fast food place like I've done before and testified against them at the hearing which cost them a $500.00 fine. No, it's none of my business what other people do-as long as they're obeying the law, and the same goes for me. trainluver1 Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:50 AM Actually the reverse is true. The more coats of paint you put on a object the less likely it is it will rust! [:p][:D] Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by joeyalone Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 9, 2005 2:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when the train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Why people get upset about graffiti has already been explained, but you seem slow so I'll explain it again. Graffiti is vandalism. Vandalism of other people's property is a crime. It is rational for people to be upset with crime and criminals. The economic impact of graffiti has already been stated and I won't go into it further, but you seem to have an indifferent attitude about it. Also, vandalism is immoral. These are a few of the reasons why people get upset about graffiti. Now I know liberals like you don't like thinking about morality because it forces you to make decisions about right and wrong. You can't equivocate about the right or wrongness of damaging other people's property when you look at it from a moral perspective and this bothers you greatly. And yes, you are a liberal. "Liberal" is not a partisan moniker, like you ignorantly stated, but rather an ideological moniker. However, if liberal bothers you I can call you a left winger or a progressive instead. Comparing graffiti to Walmarts is just stupid. The people who built those buildings did so legally. It is their property to do as they please. If they want a Walmart, they can go ahead and build one. Walmarts and graffiti are as similar as apples and chimpanzees. So you want to "understand" the mindset of vandals? Do you also want to understand why Bin Laden wants to kill you? If we all listened to you liberals, we would never ever protect our country, property or lives from those who want to do harm. You have a dangerous mindset of being permissive of those who damage society while ridiculing those who are offended by such behavior. Why don't you go back to your "mind expanding" drugs and leave the people who want a better world alone. [soapbox] Reply Edit locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 9:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Very much agreed. Maybe 'law' needs to be changed. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Hugh Jampton Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Southern Region now, UK 820 posts Posted by Hugh Jampton on Friday, April 8, 2005 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive. Generally a lurker by natureBe AlertThe world needs more lerts.It's the 3rd rail that makes the difference. Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:53 PM Think this thread has been beaten in the ground long enough. Please;let's end this thread, and go on to something else, other than graffiti. I agree with Larry (Tree 068): a piece of chalk would be nice, instead of a spray can. (not condoning anything.) It's still vandalism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 8, 2005 7:44 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. The risk to one's life here, however, is not painting graffiti so much as it is hanging around a train yard when you're not very knowledgeable about the workings of trains, or for that matter, you're not being very cautious and aware of your surroundings. This is a topic that so many of you feel rather passionate about, and that's why I keep bringing it up - not so much to speak on the behalf of some of the little wieners who do this (though some of their work does look rather nice), but rather to try and understand the vile hatred that this conjures up in some of you, especially when most people on this forum haven't the faintest bit of understanding as to why people do this, or the diversity of the type of people who do this, nor what motivates them. And to hear people praising the death of kids that do this - I'm sorry but it makes that person sound like a pr*ck. I'm not the biggest fan of graffiti, but then again I'm not too happy about freeways and wal-marts and tacky strip malls blighting my surroundings and visual environment either. But it seems just as pointless to me, for me to get so passionately angry about the existence of strip-malls and wal-marts and freeways (whose worth to society many people would contest and demean, just as you contest and demean the worth of graffiti art), as it does for you guys to so virulently hate graffiti on railroad cars. IT's around, live with it. GEt off your high horse. If graffiti is on somehow's house (rare) or storefront, that's another story, but I don't mind it so much on the railroad. Me personally, I'd much rather see some colorful and skillfully done graffiti lettering on a railroad car as opposed to just a bland and boring "GATX". Railroad emblems certainly aren't what they used to be. So please, stop whining and angrily preaching on your soapbox. You sound like a bunch of cranky five year olds. Reply Edit Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Too late.... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:20 PM A brief glimpse into the mind of a graffiti "artist": By PAT MILTON, Associated Press Writer NEW YORK - A renowned graffiti artist, arrested last year for defacing the facade of a Bronx building, is back in everyone's good graces after spray-painting — with permission — a bright red-and-gold tribute to Pope John Paul II. James De La Vega's latest work, painted on the security gate of a Spanish Harlem storefront, was created to bring hope to the poor and struggling in his Manhattan neighborhood, he said Wednesday. "This Pope understood pain and tried to relieve it," said De La Vega, 32, standing in front of the artwork. The "God's Revolutionary" mural portrays a praying pope looking at a crucified Christ as a man with his head bowed stands off in the distance. It took De La Vega two hours to complete Sunday, and he hopes it becomes a permanent installation. As De La Vega spoke, several people paused to look at the mural; one man made the sign of the cross, while another kissed the religious medal around his neck. The artist returned to Spanish Harlem after graduating with an art degree from Cornell University in 1993. He used the brick facades as his canvas and the sidewalks as his chalkboard. On one wall he depicted the Last Supper, painting black and white skeletons at the table instead of the apostles, to underscore the poverty of the Harlem streets. Last July, De La Vega was arrested for painting a fish jumping out of a bowl on the brick wall of a Bronx building without approval. He was convicted by a judge of graffiti and criminal mischief, and ordered to serve 50 hours of community service. His brush with the law did nothing to dampen De La Vega's enthusiasm for his work. "Most poor people don't visit galleries," De La Vega said. "More people look at my artwork than visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_re_us/pope_art Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 6:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Thank you. trainluver1 Reply Edit MP57313 Member sinceJune 2001 From: L A County, CA, US 1,009 posts Posted by MP57313 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 3:18 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things. Reply espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:40 PM You should be happy that your car has an xtra(sic) coat of paint on it. Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,011 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:48 PM Psst - Hey, bring your shiny new automobile over here. I've got the paint cans ready and we'll paint a really neat design on it for you. How does "Digger" sound? We can paint something different for you on the other side, too. Sorry if we cover up the windows. It would mess up the design if we didn't. You can always scrape them off if you need to see out of them... Or replace them. It won't cost you much. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 1:08 PM I think someone's been mis-using the quote option on this topic... That, or they're making fun of a serious subject. Vandalism is a serious matter. It cost money to repair or repaint things that have been messed up by kids that don't have anything better to do, and if it's a government owned item that's been vandalized, the money to repair it comes out of the tax payers pockets, and guess who the tax payers are... If I ever see anyone spray painting anything I'm calling the cops, just as I will if I see them throw their trash out their car window after leaving a fast food place like I've done before and testified against them at the hearing which cost them a $500.00 fine. No, it's none of my business what other people do-as long as they're obeying the law, and the same goes for me. trainluver1 Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:50 AM Actually the reverse is true. The more coats of paint you put on a object the less likely it is it will rust! [:p][:D] Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the law isn't very extensive.
QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt It's still vandelism,and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!
QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone Wishing for somebody else's death...Now there's something I like to hear a grown man saying. Not so much wishing. It's more a matter of risk. If you do something risky, with no real "value to society", that could cause your death, you have no one to blame but yourself. Taggers who get injured/killed on the trains they deface 'did it to themselves' by intentionally doing risky things. Misjudged when teh train would move? Oh well. Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things.
QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313 Maybe if the coroner could list "Careless Stupidity" on the death certificate it might change things.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Originally posted by ben10ben [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:48 AM I fully agree with your views/comments on this subject. Maybe he will some day realize by adding a coat of paint to the car the taggers are saving the RRs $$$$$$ as the car is less likely to rust because it has a xtra coat of paint on it. [:p][:D] Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by joeyalone Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by trainluver1 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:45 AM Sorry that our views on this subject differ. [:D] Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by trainluver1 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:43 AM I sincerely doubt the RRs do anything with those cars. In fact because they have another layer of paint on them they are less likely to rust so in fact they are saving the RRs money so they could actually reduce the cost of shipping to the shipper. Sorry that our views on this subject go down different tracks. Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by cnwfan11 Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by spbed [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:07 AM Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by spbed You sound like a angry person over something that does not even affect you in way whatsoever. Maybe over the prive of gas that anger maybe in order but something as silly as graffiti why get stressed out? Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by trainluver1 [ [/quote SPBED,it affects EVERYONE. It costs money to repaint these cars.A railcar owner and a manufacturer pay for this car to transport goods to different places,with NO problems.If the car's owner has to pay for this repainting of the car to haul consumer goods from the manufacturer,that cost is reflected on the product that YOU purchase.Its just like the fuel for a semi truck. The price goes up,so does my fee to haul the product. Someone damages my truck,I have to pay for the repair out of my own pocket, then to get my money back,I have to charge more,for me to make a profit from the downtime and expense of the stupidity of a jerk,who thinks its great to cause such a problem. Think of it.........how would you feel if you produced a product,and you are paid big bucks for the delivery of it,then turn and find out that there was damage to that product by a vandal,and the company that wants this product,sends it back to you,and you loose the money,that is rightfully owed to you,yet it was damaged.You are the one that is loosing the profit. Its pretty sad to say this,but think about it. Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
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