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Bering Strait Railroad Tunnel

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Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, May 27, 2006 1:11 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith



Oh Please dont bring LaRouche up, that guy isNUTS !
[:0][;)]


I wouldn't be TOO sure of that.

I think that he is stagecraft designed (and funded) by the republicans, to plunder the democratic block.

SOME of what La Rouche says is a truer true than anyone in the current power structure dare admit to. But , there is also just enough of a fringe lunacy to make certain that his appeal will be limited to the disaffected.

Look at his history, they only pull him out of the box when the Dems are a serious threat.

My take? I think it would serve the status quo right if the nut managed to get himself elected. He couldn't do a worse job of meeting my priorities than the last 6 presidents have anyway, so from where I stand there is little to lose. And it would serve the existing power structure right, let them be the one to have to endure bs stacked upon bs for a change...what goes around comes around.


GET YOUR ALUMINUM HATS RIGHT HERE!!!!
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/3906c0f98d07b010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html
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Posted by tatans on Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:50 AM
Connect Alaska to the rest of North America ? ? Just how would that happen ? ? ? If I remember, isn't there another country between Alaska and the United States ? ? or would they use the Pacific Ocean Route, you know, on piles, like the Railway to the Florida keys. Would this other country maybe have a say in the construction of a foreign Railway across it's borders ? ? hmmmmm.
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:02 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith



Oh Please dont bring LaRouche up, that guy isNUTS !
[:0][;)]


I wouldn't be TOO sure of that.

I think that he is stagecraft designed (and funded) by the republicans, to plunder the democratic block.

SOME of what La Rouche says is a truer true than anyone in the current power structure dare admit to. But , there is also just enough of a fringe lunacy to make certain that his appeal will be limited to the disaffected.

Look at his history, they only pull him out of the box when the Dems are a serious threat.

My take? I think it would serve the status quo right if the nut managed to get himself elected. He couldn't do a worse job of meeting my priorities than the last 6 presidents have anyway, so from where I stand there is little to lose. And it would serve the existing power structure right, let them be the one to have to endure bs stacked upon bs for a change...what goes around comes around.
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Posted by Poppa_Zit on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:49 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by talbanese

I know GWB was thinking about it, but he decide to "REFORM" SSI instead.


I think it is ignorant to use this topic as another opportunity to ba***he President. When will you guys grow up?
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled, however, to their own facts." No we can't. Charter Member J-CASS (Jaded Cynical Ascerbic Sarcastic Skeptics) Notary Sojac & Retired Foo Fighter "Where there's foo, there's fire."
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Posted by carnej1 on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:41 AM
Seems to me that this would essentially run from nowhere to nowhere............Even with the respective trancontinental rail links extended that far North. This would be thousands of miles from any population center, a "polar express" indeed...

"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock

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Posted by wallyworld on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:39 AM
Id prefer getting to Chicago in under an hour.

Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.

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Posted by chad thomas on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:18 AM
....Ok, now how about that Antarctic transcon?........
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Posted by vsmith on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:17 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Heh, in 2 words I can tell you all you need to know about this: Lyndon LaRouche

Try running a google on
World Land Bridge
Eurasian Land Bridge
Schiller Institute

And have a good laugh

Start here: http://www.schillerinstitute.org/economy/maps/maps3.html#bering%20straits

And, if you want a good example of how extremist hacks seize emotional topics (high speed rail, Amtrak, expanding PRB coal access, Bering land bridge, etc) and use them to lead those willing to be mislead, have a lookie here http://larouchein2004.net/pdfs/economics/020906infra02.pdf


Oh Please dont bring LaRouche up, that guy isNUTS !
[:0][;)]

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by wallyworld on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:00 AM
No one will finance it considering the financial fiasco the Chunnel has been. Theres no meaningful rail connection on our side. The national debt ceiling ( in trillions) has been raised here for the 5th time recently. It will never be built in our life time. Once Castro is out of the picture-a tunnel to Cuba is a remote possibility.

Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.

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Posted by prospekt mira on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:09 AM
Remember, some Russians (Zhirinovsky's LDP) want Alaska back, since the Tsar sold it so cheaply. I've met the man and he's a right nutter, so Alaska's staying under the red white and blue (Oh wait, that's the Russian flags colours as well).

[:D][:D]
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:07 AM
Heh, in 2 words I can tell you all you need to know about this: Lyndon LaRouche

Try running a google on
World Land Bridge
Eurasian Land Bridge
Schiller Institute

And have a good laugh

Start here: http://www.schillerinstitute.org/economy/maps/maps3.html#bering%20straits

And, if you want a good example of how extremist hacks seize emotional topics (high speed rail, Amtrak, expanding PRB coal access, Bering land bridge, etc) and use them to lead those willing to be mislead, have a lookie here http://larouchein2004.net/pdfs/economics/020906infra02.pdf
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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:39 AM
...."Two lanes or four"....The greatest funny on here for a while....

Quentin

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:41 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Old Limey

The Discovery Channel I believe it was that had the Bering Straits Bridge Idea and in another 'Extreme Engineering' version a tunnel under the Atlantic was also shown. In a tube suspended and tested against Nuclear Sub Collision designed for super sonic travel. Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers will be using it all the time no doubt!
Still 100 years ago Colour TV would have not been considered possible or an SR71


I saw that 'Extreme Enginneering' on the Atlantic tunnel as well. Besides the water pressure from the outside, I seem to recall they were going to pump all the air out of the tunnel to allow faster speeds.

For more conventional tunnels, imagine what would be possible if someone could invent a TBM capable of 1 mph operating 24/7 through any ground. A 2000 mile tunnel could be dug in about 3 months. Maybe it could liquify the ground using high power lasers or ultrasound? Getting materials in for the lining would seem to be a problem.
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Posted by ValorStorm on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:28 AM
benerito is correct. The so called "Ring of Fire" is hundreds of miles south of the Bering Strait.

There's an article in the January 1991 issue of TRAINS on the subject of an intercontinental rail tunnel, addressing almost every concern on this thread. Look for it on page 108 ("Turntable"). The inspiration for the article was the fall of the Berlin Wall and the completion of the "Chunnel."

Only weeks after this issue hit the news stands an American-Russian consortium of scientists met in Nome Alaska to discuss it. A couple of months later, Popular Science (or Pop Mech?) did a front-page feature on it. There was NO latter-day discussion of any of this prior to that issue of TRAINS magazine.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:51 AM
Regarding seismicity of the Strait, I'm not sure where the information is coming from about it being a highly seismic zone. The nearest zone of recognized seismicity is on the Russian side, on an isolated fault located in the Kolyunchinskaya Bay on the northern end of the Chukot peninsula. This, however, is not the boundary between the plates. That exists further west along an as-yet undefined fault running north from the Kamchatka Peninsula. In short, the Straits are not the techtonic boundary but rather just a low spot on the continental shelf; much of Chukotka is on the North American plate.

The economic argument against the construction of the line has some validity, and the tunnel (a bridge wouldn't be feasible partially because of ice drifting, but mostly because of icing on the structure and frequently high winds that could derail a train) would not be built based on purely economic benefits. It would be built based on Russia's political necessity to retain effective control of its territory in the face of Chinese pressure later in the coming century (it will become more and more difficult for overpopulated China to ignore the mostly empty territory north of its borders). The Russians already recognize this, and their earlier support for this project was part of their solution to this problem.

However, in order for the tunnel to be built, the rail lines on both sides must be brought closer to each other. There is already in the works an effort to extend track along a proposed gas line into Alaska (connecting the Fort St. James line in British Columbia to a proposed rail extension from Fairbanks to Delta Junction), and the Russians are already constructing rail from the Trans Siberian and the BAM line to Yakutsk (the bridge across the Lena River into Yakutsk will be finished in 2010). After these two projects are completed, on the US side track would be extended next into northwest Alaska (mostly to connect mines in the region to the North American rail system), and on the Russian side track would be extended next along the Kolyma Highway to Magadan, and then later possibly to Anadyr, if oil is ever produced in the Anadyr Basin fields offshore from Chukotka. After that, then it will make much more sense to the nay-sayers why a tunnel should be built.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 21, 2005 6:49 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by eastside

Thanks, that's one of the best jokes I've seen on this board!


Thanks. Can't take credit for ot though. Heard it on the Car Talk radio program.

Wayne
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 21, 2005 10:42 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by ajmiller

Let's build a bridge to the 21st century and....er....oh wait, it's already the 21st century. Sorry, my mistake.

We could build an underpass to last Tuesday, or possibly a causeway to the 8th dimension. [D)]

Perhaps we could build a space elevator to Mars [alien].
Or we could just buy a stairway to heaven.



Well, the Bering Strait railroad tunnel project is not quite THAT ludicrious. The Hawaii tunnel on the other hand... well... I'll give ya' that one [8D]
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Posted by eastside on Monday, March 21, 2005 1:48 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek

...
"Do you want two lanes or four?" asked the Genie.

Wayne
Thanks, that's one of the best jokes I've seen on this board!
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:20 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt

Anyone want to invest in a bridge between California and Hawaii[:o)]

A man finds an old lamp in his basement & starts rubbing the dirt off it to see if he can make a few bucks with it on Ebay. Suddenly a Genie pops out and says the man gets one wish. "Only one?" he asks? "It's a cheap lamp, " says the Genie, "What will it be?"

The man thinks for a minute and says, "I've always wanted to go to Hawaii but I'm afraid to fly and I'm afraid to sail. I can't wi***hat you send me there because I want to come back and I only have one wish. So I wi***hat you build a bridge from California to Hawaii so I can drive there and back."

The Genie thinks for a minute then says, "Well, you know it's a very long distance, the seas get very rough, materials will be hugely expensive, the pilings are going to have to be incredibly long, the engineering alone will take a long time. And this was a cheap lamp, after all. Are you sure there's nothing else you might want?"

The man thinks for a minute and says, "Well, I've always wanted to get along better with women. I wi***hat you give me insight into how women think."

"Do you want two lanes or four?" asked the Genie.

Wayne
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Posted by ajmiller on Sunday, March 20, 2005 9:56 PM
Let's build a bridge to the 21st century and....er....oh wait, it's already the 21st century. Sorry, my mistake.

We could build an underpass to last Tuesday, or possibly a causeway to the 8th dimension. [D)]

Perhaps we could build a space elevator to Mars [alien].
Or we could just buy a stairway to heaven.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 20, 2005 9:41 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt

Anyone want to invest in a bridge between California and Hawaii[:o)]


that would be one long bridge, with it being 2,390 miles from California. you'd have to have multiple man made islands, complete with housing, hotels, food and fuel stops along the way (probably every 100 miles for fuel and every 200 for small cities). Oh and you might as well connect Japan to the Islands as well, since it's only 3,850 miles the other direction, since once you learn to bridge 2390 miles, an additional 1500 shouldn't be to hard to do.
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Posted by DSchmitt on Sunday, March 20, 2005 8:58 PM
Anyone want to invest in a bridge between California and Hawaii[:o)]

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 20, 2005 4:32 PM
Maybe we can get Boston's "Big Dig" to stop leaking first. The independent engineer who led an investigation into construction says he can no longer vouch for the safety of the tunnel.

Or maybe we can fini***hat other capital project we've got cooking with the Russians, the International Space Station.

Or maybe we can build Alaska a proper State Capital building.

Or maybe we can go to Mars as long as we're considering huge price ticket items of dubious value that our children and grandchildren will have to pay for.

Wayne
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Posted by eastside on Sunday, March 20, 2005 4:21 PM
Forget about selling as cross-Bering Strait tunnel as a link to Russia or Europe. The best prospect is as a link to China, Japan, and the rest of East Asia. As a RR fan I’d be all for such an ambitious project – the ultimate Transcon. On the other hand, having worked in project evaluations, I feel I can say that there’s no way such a project could be undertaken without massive government financing and guarantees. Such a commitment is for the foreseeable future beyond the means of Russia. In the US it would have to overcome serious ecological, financing, and political (some powerful lobbies would object) barriers. Worse, I’d doubt that anyone could construct a viable business case that would convincingly justify it.

Look at the Channel Tunnel as an example. It’s been in de facto bankruptcy almost since opening, although it had much better immediate business prospects. It didn’t even put the ferries out of business. A Bering Strait tunnel would have an even more difficult time competing with bulk cargo carriers.
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Posted by Old Limey on Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:01 PM
The Discovery Channel I believe it was that had the Bering Straits Bridge Idea and in another 'Extreme Engineering' version a tunnel under the Atlantic was also shown. In a tube suspended and tested against Nuclear Sub Collision designed for super sonic travel. Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers will be using it all the time no doubt!
Still 100 years ago Colour TV would have not been considered possible or an SR71
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 7, 2005 8:09 PM
yes... the same one that affects California. The only reason we never here about Alaska's earthquakes is because not that many people and businesses are affected as there are in California
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Posted by AlcoRS11Nut on Monday, March 7, 2005 8:03 PM
Isn't the Bering Strait on a very active fault line too?
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 7, 2005 7:40 PM
As noted on the other discussion about the Bering Strait tunnel proposal, the State of Alaska began seeking a direct railroad connection to the Candian (and thereindirectly to the lower 48) railroad network under Alaska Senate Bill 23 SB 31:

http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/get_bill.asp?session=23&bill=sb31
http://www.gov.state.ak.us/archive.php?id=1032

Whether or not the Bering Strait ever gets rail service is still a far leap in the geological engineering and financing arenas, but perhaps in a few decades it might happen. Since post-Soviet Russia is still struggling to survive economically, it is doubtful tat they would contribute to the financing of the project. East Asian and American corporations would likely be the biggest supporters as they have the most to gain and have the funds to take on the challenge.
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Posted by siberianmo on Friday, March 4, 2005 12:43 PM
Amazing! Just when one thinks they have a handle on "most" things - along comes a topic like this one. I had no idea .........

I've sailed the Bering Sea on more than one occassion. It is NOT a deep water sea - in fact scientists just love this place for the information they can gather regarding the "land bridge" that once connected the two continents. Another subject .......

Why tunnel this sea? Where is the potential for real two way flow of goods (but hardly people). Go there - look around - even when you get to the other side, there really isn't any place to go, except to keep going (and going, and going). Trackage in that part of the world has to be a major headache. Frost heaves and the like play havoc with roads - roadbed wouldn't be immune. Can you just imagine the maintenance on something like this? I can't ......

So, while it is an interesting "thing" to discuss - I'm going back to reality.

Thanx!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo

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