Bering Strait Railroad Tunnel

[Anonymous]

I asked a UK rail group for information about the railways of the UK. One of our British friends asked me for "Stateside information on the Bering Tunnel". A quick search and I found a website about a optomistic plan to build a tunnel between Alaska and Siberia and to connect the Eastern Hemisphere with the Western Hemisphere by rail.

So, in the spirit of cooperation with one of our closest allies, does anyone have any information on this project?

[Anonymous]

I know GWB was thinking about it, but he decide to "REFORM" SSI instead.

[dldance]

Why build one? Intermodal container ships are much cheaper and avoid all the permafrost issues. Because rail guages are not compatible.

dd

[CG9602]

http://whynot.net/view_idea.php?id=1695
http://www.arctic.net/~snnr/tunnel/
http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/strunnel.html
http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/7777.html
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2002/2908ibero_ldbge.html
ttp://www.alaskahistoricalsociety.org/Cole%20bridge%20to%20Siberia.htm

These links should give you a start on your little project. As you can see, it is something that has been discussed from time to time, most recently during the 1990s with the fall of Soviet Russia.

[kenneo]

Seems like there is a question of traffic. Alaska Air flew from Anchorage into Soviet territory during Yeltson's time, but there was almost no freight or passengers. They don't have the route anymore. They used a DC9 and sometimes a 737.

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance

Why build one? Intermodal container ships are much cheaper and avoid all the permafrost issues. Because rail guages are not compatible.

dd

Ships are slow. Manufacturers of high value goods can free up a lot of capital if they can get the products to market quicker.
The incompatibility of gauge is minor compared to the problems of tunnelling across tectonic plate boundaries.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance

Why build one? Intermodal container ships are much cheaper and avoid all the permafrost issues. Because rail guages are not compatible.

dd

Ships are slow. Manufacturers of high value goods can free up a lot of capital if they can get the products to market quicker.
The incompatibility of gauge is minor compared to the problems of tunnelling across tectonic plate boundaries.

Hugh, I hate to be a "nay-sayer", but train speeds in that part of the world are slower than a tramp steamer and you are also adding about 4 thousand miles to the trip. The engineering is doable. The economics are not.

[88gta350]

That area is prone to severe earthquales. I can't imagine it is very feasible. You'd build one heck of an expensive tunnel for questionable amounts of traffic only to have it collapse in a few years.

[daveklepper]

It would be a matter more of railroading prestige. Frits let us connect Alaska for gosh sakes! That at least is doable and should have the traffic to justify it.

[spbed]

I would say this is more fantasy then fact as I would suspect due to the past relationship between Russia & us as well as the weaknesses that now exist in the "new" Russia this project will not come to fruitation.

[dldance]

It only took about 150 years from the first attempt at the Channel Tunnel to get to the project completed. I'm not going to hold my breath on the Bering Strait Tunnel.

dd

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all, including Topeka Railfan! This is your U.K. correspondent who started the Bering tunnel inquiry, with modern technology, earthquake and change of guage problems should be surmountable...
A rail trip Chinnor (Oxfordshire) to Chicago or Newquay (Cornwall) to New York appeals to me....
Also, talking of new technology, why not re-open Key West, making it storm proof? As to one of your correspondents suggesting old lines be made into truck roads, DON`T LET `EM DO IT..... we lost between a third and half of our railways because of negative thinking in 1965 onwards, now they are regretting it.... If Dubya tries anything like that in the States, let all rail staff call a unanimous general strike in protest, like we should have done. The world`s oil reserves are running out..... rail is the only mass transport viable for the future!

[GP-9_Man11786]

Why not buod a bridge instead of a tunnel?

[Anonymous]

There was an idea for a polar route railroad as the long dreamed of Northwest Passage. Thanks to global warming, the Northwest Passage is opening to shipping. Ice breakers are required for some of it but the whole passage is almost ice free.
1979


2003

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GP-9_Man11786

Why not buod a bridge instead of a tunnel?

That's in the works, but the major problem is the ice flows hitting the pylons, but then again, the guy designing it says he's overcome that. I saw a show in the history channel about this, the bridge si to be immense, 3 layers, top would be sesonal road traffice (can't drive cars on it in the harsh winter), second level would be a semi-pressurized railway (4 tracks i believe), third layer would be a natural gas/oil pipeline system. but then who could afford the massive costs to build it?

[Anonymous]

Who is going to pay for it? Maybe we can take the money from Amtrak?

[Anonymous]

How about connecting Alaska by rail with the rest of North America first? Might make a better economic case for the thing to be built. (I think a bridge makes for a better solution viewing the geophysical description of the region)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SteamerFan

but then who could afford the massive costs to build it?

Particularly since it would never make back the money invested in it. You'll see Gibraltar and the Strait of Messina bridged centuries before the Bering Strait is.

If a link over the Bering Strait cost the same per kilometer as the Øresund Bridge from Denmark to Sweden, it would run a little over $90 billion.

[Anonymous]

At least the Oresund bridge & Messina bridges are in, road & rail, and are working; all European nations, Asia, as well as Canada & The United States should all pay equally for a Bering tunnel or bridge, as the freight benefits would more than justify it all; let`s go for it!
Thanks also to the correspondent who listed the websites re. all this, the last one with the guage difference overcome by off-set four rail layout is most interesting.
Railfans abroad might also be interested in www.heritagerail.com website, as to the diificulties faced in the U.K. in putting back all the missing rail links; there are now over a 100 companies and growing, not just for enthusiasts, but for social needs. where the road transport is inadequate, or non-existant. Let the U.S. railroads not fall into the same trap!

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

A Bering Strait tunnel definitely has a Russian flavor to it, the Russians have always dreamed of or attempted projects on a heroic scale. However, it looks good on paper but has absolutely no economic justification since it would be a middle with no ends (apologies to fans of Pacific Great Eastern).

[vsmith]

First off, even if this thing was built once the trains arrived in Alaska, where would they go? The Alaska RR doesnt have a line into Canada or to the lower 48.

Second, getting a rail line TO the Bering Strait would involve hundreds of miles of track to be layed on now not-so-permafrost soil, which would mean you would essentantially building a bridge a 1000 miles long over the mushy tundra to even reach it.

Third, this is one of the most active siesmic zones in the world, not just fault lines but actual continental plates grinding past each other. 8.0 earthquakes are not uncommon, and a tunnel thru shifting continental plate boundries is not only bad, its suicidal!

[dldance]

the technology to address ice exists:

"The 12.9 kilometre Confederation Bridge joins Borden-Carleton, Prince Edward Island and Cape Jourimain, New-Brunswick and is the longest bridge over ice covered waters in the world. This historic bridge, which opened on May 31, 1997 brings a new age of transportation to Atlantic Canada. The Bridge carries two lanes of traffic 24 hours a day, seven days a week and takes approximately 10 minutes to cross at normal travelling speeds. The Bridge is privately managed, maintained and operated by Strait Crossing Development Inc. and its subsidiary company, Strait Crossing Bridge Limited."

But I put a tunnel in the same file as the "flat earth theory".

dd

[siberianmo]

Amazing! Just when one thinks they have a handle on "most" things - along comes a topic like this one. I had no idea .........

I've sailed the Bering Sea on more than one occassion. It is NOT a deep water sea - in fact scientists just love this place for the information they can gather regarding the "land bridge" that once connected the two continents. Another subject .......

Why tunnel this sea? Where is the potential for real two way flow of goods (but hardly people). Go there - look around - even when you get to the other side, there really isn't any place to go, except to keep going (and going, and going). Trackage in that part of the world has to be a major headache. Frost heaves and the like play havoc with roads - roadbed wouldn't be immune. Can you just imagine the maintenance on something like this? I can't ......

So, while it is an interesting "thing" to discuss - I'm going back to reality.

Thanx!

[Anonymous]

As noted on the other discussion about the Bering Strait tunnel proposal, the State of Alaska began seeking a direct railroad connection to the Candian (and thereindirectly to the lower 48) railroad network under Alaska Senate Bill 23 SB 31:

http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/get_bill.asp?session=23&bill=sb31
http://www.gov.state.ak.us/archive.php?id=1032

Whether or not the Bering Strait ever gets rail service is still a far leap in the geological engineering and financing arenas, but perhaps in a few decades it might happen. Since post-Soviet Russia is still struggling to survive economically, it is doubtful tat they would contribute to the financing of the project. East Asian and American corporations would likely be the biggest supporters as they have the most to gain and have the funds to take on the challenge.

[AlcoRS11Nut]

Isn't the Bering Strait on a very active fault line too?

[Anonymous]

yes... the same one that affects California. The only reason we never here about Alaska's earthquakes is because not that many people and businesses are affected as there are in California

[Old Limey]

The Discovery Channel I believe it was that had the Bering Straits Bridge Idea and in another 'Extreme Engineering' version a tunnel under the Atlantic was also shown. In a tube suspended and tested against Nuclear Sub Collision designed for super sonic travel. Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers will be using it all the time no doubt!
Still 100 years ago Colour TV would have not been considered possible or an SR71

[eastside]

Forget about selling as cross-Bering Strait tunnel as a link to Russia or Europe. The best prospect is as a link to China, Japan, and the rest of East Asia. As a RR fan I’d be all for such an ambitious project – the ultimate Transcon. On the other hand, having worked in project evaluations, I feel I can say that there’s no way such a project could be undertaken without massive government financing and guarantees. Such a commitment is for the foreseeable future beyond the means of Russia. In the US it would have to overcome serious ecological, financing, and political (some powerful lobbies would object) barriers. Worse, I’d doubt that anyone could construct a viable business case that would convincingly justify it.

Look at the Channel Tunnel as an example. It’s been in de facto bankruptcy almost since opening, although it had much better immediate business prospects. It didn’t even put the ferries out of business. A Bering Strait tunnel would have an even more difficult time competing with bulk cargo carriers.

[Anonymous]

Maybe we can get Boston's "Big Dig" to stop leaking first. The independent engineer who led an investigation into construction says he can no longer vouch for the safety of the tunnel.

Or maybe we can fini***hat other capital project we've got cooking with the Russians, the International Space Station.

Or maybe we can build Alaska a proper State Capital building.

Or maybe we can go to Mars as long as we're considering huge price ticket items of dubious value that our children and grandchildren will have to pay for.

Wayne

[DSchmitt]

Anyone want to invest in a bridge between California and Hawaii[:o)]