Breaking News BNSF dispatchers on Strike

[eolafan]

Well folks, it is a wonderfully sunny 55F day here in Chicago (warmer than normal for a March 6 day) and I am feeling particularyly mellow today, and since it seems we have a classic case of "THE IRRESISTABLE FORCE (unions) AGAINST THE IMMOVABLE OBJECT(BNSF)" let's see if we can agree to call this arguement a draw and move on to other more pleasant things, shall we? We could argue this one until we are all dead and in our graves with no consensus, so let's just drop the entire thing. I AM SURE WE CAN ALL AGREE ON THIS ONE....RAILFANNING IS LIKELY THE ONE THING WE WILL ALL AGREE IS COMMON AMONGST US....SO LET'S ENJOY AND STOP THIS ARGUEMENT (yes, I know I started it, so I am taking the liberty of trying to stop it as well). HOPE WE ALL AGREE!

Have a nice day!

[greyhounds]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds

"Working a Strike" is one of the most memorable things I have done in my life

Back in the 70's a union, I think it was BRAC, went on strike against the N&W. It went on for 77 days. We were part of a "mutual aid" pact with the N&W and helped them. The N&W continued operations using management personel to fill in...

I came out of the experience thinking that grownups should be able to find better ways to settle disputes.

And again, just what does this have to do with the issue that caused the walkout of ATDA members at BNSF's FTW center?

Many of us can cite real-world experiences that color our perceptions of what we consider as right or wrong. But, this is not a thread about that, it is a thread about the walk out of ATDA members from the BNSF's FTW center.

Your posting adds no facts to the discussion.

Jim - Lawton, NV MP 236

Oh, did my post offend you. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it. It was totally unforgiveable on my part. I don't know what I was thinking. I feel so ashamed. Please forgive me.

I didn't know the topic was so narrow - that it could only touch on "the walk out of ATDA members from the BNSF's FTW center". I saw mentions of things like Wal-Mart, "this economy", etc. and I JUST ASSUMED (very wrong of me indeed) that the topic had widened a tad.

Since I'd actually been through a railroad strike, I thought relating some of my experiences might possibly have been of some minor interest to a small few people. And my conclusion, after working through a strike, that they are a really dumb way to settle things was, I thought, right on point.

But hey, I've been wrong before. Have you?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds

"Working a Strike" is one of the most memorable things I have done in my life

Back in the 70's a union, I think it was BRAC, went on strike against the N&W. It went on for 77 days. We were part of a "mutual aid" pact with the N&W and helped them. The N&W continued operations using management personel to fill in...

I came out of the experience thinking that grownups should be able to find better ways to settle disputes.

And again, just what does this have to do with the issue that caused the walkout of ATDA members at BNSF's FTW center?

Many of us can cite real-world experiences that color our perceptions of what we consider as right or wrong. But, this is not a thread about that, it is a thread about the walk out of ATDA members from the BNSF's FTW center.

Your posting adds no facts to the discussion.

Jim - Lawton, NV MP 236

[arbfbe]

Eolafan:

One of the reason there are good job in this country is account labor organized and was able to negotiate safer working conditions and liveable wages where possible and lobby for stronger labor laws when necessary. One of the reasons workers have such horrid conditions in other parts of the world is that unions are restricted or banned or serve the company. Hundreds died in this country in order to gain the right to organize and negotiate for better conditions. The struggle is far from over and the climate for the unions is not good. You just have to look at the tactics employed by Wal-Mart and the rail carriers to see how far we have yet to go in this country. I would bet a fair amount your wages would be lower in your current job if there were not unions lifting your boat.

Alan

[greyhounds]

"Working a Strike" is one of the most memorable things I have done in my life.

Back in the 70's a union, I think it was BRAC, went on strike against the N&W. It went on for 77 days. We were part of a "mutual aid" pact with the N&W and helped them. The N&W continued operations using management personel to fill in.

The unions had a similar deal in that they helped the striking N&W guys. After 77 days the unions had had enough and called a strike against all members of the mutual aid pact, including the ICG. And that included me.

So I get to work in downtown Chicago in the morning and there are pickets outside the office building. I walked right by them. Got inside and found this young, absolutely beautiful, African-American lady working her clerk job. I walked over to her and said: "You can't do this, you have to leave."

She just smiled and kept working the stack of papers in front of her. She didn't want to be on strike, she wanted her paycheck. I persisted, and so did she. She just kept smiling and working. I told her she was going to get in a lot of trouble if she kept working and she finally walked away. I do not know if she left the building or just waited me out and returned after I had gone on to other things.

After a while we were sent to our "Strike Assignments". I drew the intermodal ramp on Ashland Avenue filling in for one or more of the striking clerks. After a huddle the Director of Intermodal Operations had an assignment for me. He had decided we were going to be there a while and he sent me out for some food. After taking everybody's order, I left for McDonalds.

On the way back, with some large bags of McStuf, I realized that I was going to have to drive through a stike line in Chicago. I expected trouble and imagined a brick comming though my windshield. When I got near the gate I was stopped by two semis in front of me. The drivers were excitedly talking to each other. Then the inbound truck went THE WRONG WAY around a building. I decided to follow him.

He got his rig straightened out and put the peddle to the metal. The pickets scattered. I just drove in right behind him before they had regained their composure. This was Chicago. What had I gotten myself into? They yelled at me, but that was all they did.

So then I received a 4-5 minute course on how to check in trailers at the gate and began my strike assignment. We moved the trailers. They were not anywhere near on time, but they moved.

Then it degenerated. Nobody had any stomach for this. The pickets would want to come in and use the bathroom. "No, you can't use the bathroom while you're picketing us". "I don't know what you're supposed to do." "OK, but figure
something else out from now on will you."

Nobody had a cell phone back then. So people would call up and try to leave phone messages for the pickets. "No mam, I'm not taking a message for him." "I don't know what you're supposed to do, but I'm not taking a message for one of the strikers."

After a day or so they just left a picket sign proped up outside the gate and went home. About midnight a UPS driver arrived. I went up to get his paperwork and he asked me "Where are the pickets?" I gave him an honest answer, I told him I had no idea.

It settled after three days, and as a clerk I knew reported for work I walked up and shook his hand. I said: "***, I sure am glad to see you here."

I came out of the experience thinking that grownups should be able to find better ways to settle disputes.

[brazos87]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe

Eolafan,

What a simple black and white lifestyle you live in. Would it be that life on the railroads were so simple. Work less for more pay. The Dispatchers are not asking for more pay though the railroads have beed dumping more and more work on them for decades now. Management wants it all their way and will violate the spirit of the labor agreement as well as the specific language of the contract to get it. Due to court decisions and government edict railroad labor organizations can only walk off the job for "major disputes" which translates to contract negotiation issues. Not for safety, not for personal welfare, not on a whim. You see how quickly BNSF was able to force the dispatchers back to work in this instance.

I have two suggestions for you. Check your anti union bias at the forum door. To get a better appreciation of the issues involved make your next move to a career in railroad dispatching. Almost all of the major railroads are short and training is available. It might even pay more than what you are making now.

[banghead] To your comment I say this...Our world would be a much better place to live in if only more of us lived their lives in a more "black and white" fashion...in other words "right and wrong" and not a million different shades of gray. I was raised to believe that right is right and wrong is wrong, with not so very many BUT's in the middle. Oh so many of us have adopted the "ME, ME, ME, ME" philosophy.

It seems your compatriot JOdom has the very philosophy "ME, ME", et cetera. So he was delayed, big deal--happens every day on freeways in this nation. Anyone complaining about a construction zone which is up too long?

Later in this thread you talk about those in less fortunate countries. Does this mean American citizens cannot try to better our lot in life because someone is starving in Africa?? Or even hold an employer to task for a contract they signed? BNSF did not live up to the letter or spirit of that contract. The dispatchers did what they felt was necessary to get managements' attention.

No one got hurt (except feelings apparently), and someone's supper got cold--big deal.

[shrek623]

QUOTE: Originally posted by sammythebull

I deal with these DS's everyday on my work and I will say that most of them are fairly good at what they do considering the enviorment present. Dispatchers are op tested more than train crews, work under more strict rules than train crews and many times are multi tasking. I have spent an entire shift watching the dispatchers at the Kansas City office with the thought of once doing a craft transfer and becoming a DS. After seeing what they have to go through behind the scenes and the stress created by the job, no way. It isn't for me.

Having to deal with these DS also I have to agree with you 100%. They have big brother watching over their shoulder 24/7. No thanks.

Shrek

[Anonymous]

I deal with these DS's everyday on my work and I will say that most of them are fairly good at what they do considering the enviorment present. Dispatchers are op tested more than train crews, work under more strict rules than train crews and many times are multi tasking. I have spent an entire shift watching the dispatchers at the Kansas City office with the thought of once doing a craft transfer and becoming a DS. After seeing what they have to go through behind the scenes and the stress created by the job, no way. It isn't for me.

[Anonymous]

A few points. train dispatchers, like any other operating rr employee can be removed from service for cause. They get a good salary account they do a particularly stressfull job that soaks the life out of you.

All things etc, at what point, given the state f the world in its entirety, does one have the right to fight an injustice? Or should they just lie back and take it for fear of being referred to as a "whiner."

I'm for the side that makes sense, and against the side that won't lsten. Be that either side is labor or management. If this were a case of the dispatchers walking out because they want 3 days off per week, a thicker cushion on their chair, a clerk to sharpen their pencils, and a 2 hour lunch break, I would agree that they're whining. But after reading some of the links I don't think this is the case. The carrier wants to abrigate the contract sans negotiation. That isn't what the dispatchers had when they hired out. Nor is it something they should have run down their throats. There's an agreement in place and the carrier should have the guts to live with it until the next round of proper negotiations.

I don't think someone should acuse another of "whining" about a situation until all facts are known. I wonder whose the real "whiner."

Mitch

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:

First off Deaks, welcome to the forums, glad to have you with us as another contributor to our sprited discussions. When I read in the newspapers, in books or see on TV about the many, many millions of people around the world who are litterally starving to death and don't have two nickels to rub together or the ability to put ANY food on the family table, I simply can not feel sorry for an employee who has such a BIG PROBLEM as the BNSF dispatchers in this case. Folks, we all need to take a step back and put all things into proper perspective. If you have a job paying what these dispatchers make and have little chance of being fired (thanks to the union representing them if not their own talents and work ethic) then you should be very thankful you are not one of the tens of millions in the world who would thank their maker for ANY job, let alone one that pays that much. We should all thank our lucky stars that we have the jobs we do, as there are so very many who have NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL.

It appears from your post you still have not followed and read any of the good links to additional information about the issue that caused the walkout. Here is one more link to a thread on TrainOrders.com that should provide more information on the issue between the ATDA and BNSF.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,881115

Jim - Lawton, NV MP 236

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FP45

I do heavy construction and am glad my company is union free. I have been there 5 years and make more than some with 17 years in. I also don't get laid off when its slow,they do. I know many of you are hard workers( you know who you are) but I cant see paying someone lazy or dumb to keep working just because of seniority. [soapbox]

And this has what to do with the issue that caused the walkout at BNSF by ATDA union members?

Jim - Lawton, NV MP236

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Deaks

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

yadda yadda yadda....AGAIN, IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE ENVIRONMENT YOU WORK UNDER, QUIT OR SIMPLY SHUT UP, BUT PLEASE DON'T TAKE YOUR PERSONAL FRUSTRATIONS OUT ON THE INNOCENT COMMUTERS OR RAILRAOD CUSTOMERS WHO INDIRECTLY PAY YOUR WAGES, they don't deserve it!.... yadda yadda yadda

Remarkable attitude you've got there. It's a good job everyone doesn't think like you.

Maybe you could suggest some other actions the dispatchers could have taken? Actions that bring their plight to the fore?

First off Deaks, welcome to the forums, glad to have you with us as another contributor to our sprited discussions. When I read in the newspapers, in books or see on TV about the many, many millions of people around the world who are litterally starving to death and don't have two nickels to rub together or the ability to put ANY food on the family table, I simply can not feel sorry for an employee who has such a BIG PROBLEM as the BNSF dispatchers in this case. Folks, we all need to take a step back and put all things into proper perspective. If you have a job paying what these dispatchers make and have little chance of being fired (thanks to the union representing them if not their own talents and work ethic) then you should be very thankful you are not one of the tens of millions in the world who would thank their maker for ANY job, let alone one that pays that much. We should all thank our lucky stars that we have the jobs we do, as there are so very many who have NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

yadda yadda yadda....AGAIN, IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE ENVIRONMENT YOU WORK UNDER, QUIT OR SIMPLY SHUT UP, BUT PLEASE DON'T TAKE YOUR PERSONAL FRUSTRATIONS OUT ON THE INNOCENT COMMUTERS OR RAILRAOD CUSTOMERS WHO INDIRECTLY PAY YOUR WAGES, they don't deserve it!.... yadda yadda yadda

Remarkable attitude you've got there. It's a good job everyone doesn't think like you.

Maybe you could suggest some other actions the dispatchers could have taken? Actions that bring their plight to the fore?

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edbenton

It is called getting out there and vote. Eolafan the power of the ballot box is real here in central IL we got rid of a lawyer turned politican named PAtrick Welch and replaced him with a succesful busnessman and named Gary Dahl. I am sure you see his trucks all the time since he founded DD Express based in Peru IL not to far from Aurora. He was tried of Mr Welch going after unions and the working man with his tactics. In fact local labor was supporting Welch until he started attacking Wahl's trucking busness wrong thing to do since DD pays its drivers union wages without the dues and also Mr. Dahl is a Teamster himself.

[bow] Edbenton, all I can say for those of you who used your vote effectively to change things is...GOOD FOR YOU, WAY TO GO![:)]

[Anonymous]

For those that may be interested in what the ATDA says about the job action against the BNSF, below is a press release issued by the union:

March 3, 2005

PRESS RELEASE

Yesterday afternoon the ATDA withdrew its services on the BNSF Railway as a result of the BNSF’s illegal and unilateral change in the Agreement between the parties in direct violation of the Railway Labor Act. As a result, all train dispatchers who were working in the BNSF’s Network Operations Center in Fort Worth, Texas walked off the job, after ensuring all safe measures were taken with regard to train movement.

In the last round of collective bargaining, the BNSF sought changes to the Agreement pertaining to the granting of paid leave, specifically comp time. Those changes were rejected by the ATDA and were not contained in the subsequently reached Agreement. However, on January 1, 2005, the BNSF made a decision to unilaterally implement those changes without obtaining the Union’s consent.

ATDA representatives held numerous discussions with BNSF in which they advised the company representatives that BNSF’s actions violated the company’s obligations under the Railway Labor Act. “Although the BNSF was given ample opportunity to correct its illegal actions, the Railroad refused to do so,” said ATDA President McCann.

The train dispatchers returned to work at approximately 6:00 P.M. last night when BNSF agreed to revert back to the status quo that was in effect prior to January 1, 2005, while a federal court determines how the dispute between the parties should be resolved.

Also, for those that would like to learn more about this AFL-CIO affiliated union, here is a link to their "about us" web page:

http://atdd.homestead.com/atddpg1.html#anchor_12920

Jim - Lawton, NV MP 236

[edbenton]

It is called getting out there and vote. Eolafan the power of the ballot box is real here in central IL we got rid of a lawyer turned politican named PAtrick Welch and replaced him with a succesful busnessman and named Gary Dahl. I am sure you see his trucks all the time since he founded DD Express based in Peru IL not to far from Aurora. He was tried of Mr Welch going after unions and the working man with his tactics. In fact local labor was supporting Welch until he started attacking Wahl's trucking busness wrong thing to do since DD pays its drivers union wages without the dues and also Mr. Dahl is a Teamster himself.

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edbenton

How about getting rid of all the politicians first and start over, but make a new requirement they can not be lawyers they have to know what they are going to be doing. Have a CPA as treasuer and engineers actually right the specs for anything new not a commitee who wants something on it because it looks nice.

OH, BUT THAT WE REALLY COULD DO JUST THAT!

[edbenton]

How about getting rid of all the politicians first and start over, but make a new requirement they can not be lawyers they have to know what they are going to be doing. Have a CPA as treasuer and engineers actually right the specs for anything new not a commitee who wants something on it because it looks nice.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox

QUOTE: To your comment I say this...Our world would be a much better place to live in if only more of us lived their lives in a more "black and white" fashion...in other words "right and wrong" and not a million different shades of gray. I was raised to believe that right is right and wrong is wrong, with not so very many BUT's in the middle. Oh so many of us have adopted the "ME, ME, ME, ME" philosophy.

This a wonderful world but Henry VIII was right : "first we will kill all of the lawyers"

There is always someone willing to take THAT quote out of context...

LC

[arbfbe]

sped:
Well, I have a degree in Labor Relations as well. Sure, that's the way it is supposed to work but if one side sticks their feet in the mud and refuses to follow the contract the other party is left with little other recourse. Railroads are known for pulling new restrictions on Labor out of thin air and imposing them upon workers as a management perrogative. Unfortunately, this may contradict with unwritten conditions of empolyment, the way things have been done in the past, and thus require negotiations with the unions before they can be imposed. The railroad will never recognize this situation until if has gone to arbitration and the neutral party reminds them. It happens time and time again but management just ignores decades of labor law anytime they want to get things their way. I am sure your son learned that in his classes as well. This is also the period when the next labor contract is under negotiation and the carriers have served some really onerous Section 6 notices upon labor. The chances of labor having an extremely adverse contract shoved down their throats by a Bush appointed Presidential Emergency Board is highly probably. People are not happy and parties are posturing with regard to negotiations.

eolafan:
The texture of life would be so bland if it only came in black and white. The reality is that it does not and you cannot make it that way. Conservatives try everyday with imited successl even after resorting to beatings and murder. Think totalitarian and fascist here. I doubt that is what you really want on a personal level.

bobwilcox:
There are thousands of people in Libby, MT who have been poisoned with asbestos by W.R. Grace company that are relying on lawyers and laws to help them survive for what little time they have left. I doubt they would agree with king Henry VIII and your position. One of the great things ov Democracy over Monarchy is the chance to talk things over instead of having it imposed. See the above note to eolafan, if you like black & white imposed upon you then a monarchy is for you. Never mind what is imposed might be wrong but it is less messy for some.

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: To your comment I say this...Our world would be a much better place to live in if only more of us lived their lives in a more "black and white" fashion...in other words "right and wrong" and not a million different shades of gray. I was raised to believe that right is right and wrong is wrong, with not so very many BUT's in the middle. Oh so many of us have adopted the "ME, ME, ME, ME" philosophy.

This a wonderful world but Henry VIII was right : "first we will kill all of the lawyers"

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe

Eolafan,

What a simple black and white lifestyle you live in. Would it be that life on the railroads were so simple. Work less for more pay. The Dispatchers are not asking for more pay though the railroads have beed dumping more and more work on them for decades now. Management wants it all their way and will violate the spirit of the labor agreement as well as the specific language of the contract to get it. Due to court decisions and government edict railroad labor organizations can only walk off the job for "major disputes" which translates to contract negotiation issues. Not for safety, not for personal welfare, not on a whim. You see how quickly BNSF was able to force the dispatchers back to work in this instance.

I have two suggestions for you. Check your anti union bias at the forum door. To get a better appreciation of the issues involved make your next move to a career in railroad dispatching. Almost all of the major railroads are short and training is available. It might even pay more than what you are making now.

[banghead] To your comment I say this...Our world would be a much better place to live in if only more of us lived their lives in a more "black and white" fashion...in other words "right and wrong" and not a million different shades of gray. I was raised to believe that right is right and wrong is wrong, with not so very many BUT's in the middle. Oh so many of us have adopted the "ME, ME, ME, ME" philosophy.

[spbed]

My son who has a degree in labor relations says the proper method is to go to your union with whatever grievance you may have & at that point it is up to your union delegates to correct the situation. To just take a punitive action like was done will in no way correct the situation that was bothering the dispatchers. Most likely the BNSF was aware of the grievance in the 1st place.

[Anonymous]

The reality of commuting in Chicago(and probably most big cities) is there are going to be days when commuters are delayed and it doesn't matter what form of transportation one uses. The dispatcher strike(1-1.5 hour delays) got a lot of attention here, but the very next day I-55 was shut down for 5 hours due to a massive 5 truck pileup. I also remember the day when a crane fell through an overpass and blocked the outbound Eisenhower X-way completely for 12 hours. We've also had a number of rail mishaps, strikes, and management lockouts - most notably a time when ALL the commuter railroads shut down for 3 days and folks downtown were parking cars on draw-bridges. The great loop flood even impacted commuters who live and work downtown and walk to work, since many buildings were without power. These were all man-made delays, weather is a whole other story.

It's true that 99+% of the time, one can literaly set their watch based on how the tains run on the BNSF Q-line - that may be why commuters get so upset when things do go wrong. On the other hand they should remember that it's those same dispatchers who are in part responsible for that on-time performance record.

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

In other words, you were a boomer and some of the times you moved on, it was probably because you were furloughed and things weren't looking good. That's 37 years of bouncing around, speaking as one who gave up his seniority a couple of times to try something different, that's a risky move and you never know quite how the landing is going to be. However, you post it so matter-of-factly and you know you were the exception, many who come stay and stick it out and build that seniority or else leave within the first three to five years, if not sooner.

Sorry, never was furloughed.

[Anonymous]

I do heavy construction and am glad my company is union free. I have been there 5 years and make more than some with 17 years in. I also don't get laid off when its slow,they do. I know many of you are hard workers( you know who you are) but I cant see paying someone lazy or dumb to keep working just because of seniority. [soapbox]

[arbfbe]

Brak710101:

That is management's dream but the reality is there are still a lot of switches that have to be hand lined and trains stopped by detector to be inspected. I doubt the server will have the wherewithall to accompoli***hose tasks with a train crew for some time to come.

A union president does not take his members off the job on a whim. I doubt this job action in Ft Worth was a spur of the moment decision.

[Anonymous]

THey should be awful careful... a server in a cold dark room could take their job, and never have a problem. [:0]

[BaltACD]

My railroad experience encompasses 40 years....20 year on the managment side and 20 years on the labor side.

Management is 'empowered' by Labor Relations to violate any contract provision that management believes they can get away with. While that policy is not writtten, if you ask Labor Relations for a 'ruling' concerning a contract provision, that is the answer that will be presented to you.

Labor's obligation is to see that Management follows the provisions of the contract as written.

If BNSF management were following the provisions of the BNSF Dispatchers contract there would not have been a work action.

If anyone wants to dump on anyone....DUMP ON BNSF MANAGEMENT for their failure to follow the contract that they agreed to.