Breaking News BNSF dispatchers on Strike

[ValleyX]

In other words, you were a boomer and some of the times you moved on, it was probably because you were furloughed and things weren't looking good. That's 37 years of bouncing around, speaking as one who gave up his seniority a couple of times to try something different, that's a risky move and you never know quite how the landing is going to be. However, you post it so matter-of-factly and you know you were the exception, many who come stay and stick it out and build that seniority or else leave within the first three to five years, if not sooner.

[BaltACD]

Work Stoppages - Strikes - Withdrawal of Service or any other euphanism for employer/employee work actions are not taken lightly by either side in a dispute.....they are an action of last resort.

Of course to those that are not a party to the dispute, it appears that the work action is the first inkling that anything is wrong. It is like the duck moving across the still pond....on the surface everything is calm and serene.....beneath the surface the duck is paddling for all get out.

Work Actions are the action of last resort when nothing else has worked. While they don't reflect all that well on the union, they also throw a very bad light up on the responsible Company Official, and a company official is responsible in every work action.....Some are supported by the company, some find themselves reassigned after the work action.

[brazos87]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

I can' t help but wonder if these dispatchers were getting off of work and had to be at a family outing, pick their kids up from school, etc. and found that the sand truck/snow plow drivers had gone on strike that afternoon and there was a big ice storm (yes, they do get such storms in the DFW area), and the dispatchers could not get home, wonder what they would think and say...THEY NEED TO WALK IN THE OTHER GUYS SHOES FOR A WHILE.

Have you been a BNSF Dispatcher? Or a dispatcher for any railroad at all? Sounds like you might want to take your own advice. Pick up the kids from school? Railroading is a 24 hour a day business, weather doesn't matter--not a lot of railroaders, in any craft, have much of a "home" life, let alone are picking up the kids from school. In your scenario, the schools would have already been closed account of the weather! But the dispatcher still has to make it to work.

From what I understand, the dispatchers walked to try and improve their quality of life over personal leave. Bet you like being home every night or when your kid is sick.

It's easy to say just find another job, another thing to find one where you can actually afford to give your family a decent standard of living.

Most railfans have no idea of how complex or demanding "real" railroading can be. As far as dispatchers go, try running record volumes of freight on lines whose capacity was met several years ago.

I applaud the the dispatchers in their solidarity--picking and choosing lines to walkout on would show BNSF that the dispatchers weren't united. Unity is the basis of a union. Railroading is one industry where unions are certainly needed. For all the union bashers out there, take a swipe @ the Screen Actors Guild or any of the major sports unions. Got hockey?

Take a walk in a dispatcher's shoes, or an MOW gang, or a conductor and then get on your soapbox.

[Anonymous]

It is pretty clear that some of you have no clue what kind of garbage big companies, and the railroads in particular get away with! Obviously the dispatchers are unhappy and have probably tried many avenues before it came to this!!! I am sure this did not just occur over night. But with the unions basically being busted in this country they will not really be able to strike anyway.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Frankly folks I personally have no toleracne for what seems here to be a "WORK LESS, GET PAID MORE" attitude and that same attitude of the unions in general (oh, boy am I going to stir up a hornets nest here). The way I was raised by my parents (my Dad was a union member in a blue collar profession by the way), was that you got paid a fair wage for a fair days work and if you didn't like what you were getting paid, YOU WERE FREE TO QUITE YOUR JOB AND FIND A NEW ONE AT ANY TIME.

First off, lets get some stuff straight here, most important is a job action such as a walk-out (strike) is the last thing a union and its membership wants. Fact is that most (98%) contract negotiation or grievances are solved without any jobs actions.

Next, the only tool that labor has is a job action, the act of withholding work from the employer. Over the last 30 years and the erosion of labor law protection from the federal government, the strike is labors only tool left.

You assume that you know what the issue was about, and then summarize it for us "trains forums" members by saying something like, lets see - quote: "WORK LESS, GET PAID MORE" as the issue over this stoppage. The only report for the reason for this stoppage in the accounts I've read is a BNSF management spokespersons quoted as follows:

"The walkout was over a dispute concerning personal leave, according to BNSF spokesman *** Russack."

The above quote from BNSF's *** Russack in no way equates to your "WORK LESS, GET PAID MORE" summation.

Then you go on to make this statement:

"that you got paid a fair wage for a fair days work and if you didn't like what you were getting paid, YOU WERE FREE TO QUITE YOUR JOB AND FIND A NEW ONE AT ANY TIME." This is completely managements answer to the world of employment, this not any statement that would be spoken by any rank and file bother or sister.

This job action by BNSF represented "American Train Dispatchers Association" employees was not done lightly, but it was planned to optimize its affect. The union knew there would be an injunction against the walkout and looked for the optimum window, seems they found it

The union, after much negotiation with less than a good faith effort by BNSF, wanted to bring home to the company their membership was united in solidarity over the issue at hand.

Anyway, just my thoughts on the matter.

Jim - Lawton, NV MP 236

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

I've said it before and I will say it yet again...NOBODY FORCED THEM TO TAKE THEIR JOBS AND THEIR SALARIES, AND IF THEY WANT TO QUIT AND GO ON TO A "BETTER" JOB SOMEWHERE ELSE...GO FOR IT! I have gotten tired of former jobs that I did not feel were paying a fair wage, and I quit and moved on, but I did not strike and screw things up for my (former) employer, I SIMPLY QUIT, and these folks have that right as well...I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY WON'T EXERCISE THAT RIGHT...perhaps it's because they really like their jobs????

We as labor have won the right to organize and bargain for a better situation at the work place. And through collective bargaining we help the employer understand what a fair wage is, along with some basic rights like safety and security on the job, which determines working conditions.

I'm sorry, but everything that you've written so far, has been written before. Many years before, these are the same old tired phrases used 70 to 100 years ago by anti-union folks.

Get some new material, please!

Jim - Lawton, NV MP 236

[Anonymous]

Just get up and quit you say. OK..Let's do just that. Four pm on a weekday afternoon, and the whole lot of dispatchers have all found other "fair paying jobs" at Pizza King, dispatching tasty pies throughout the land. Meanwhile, the railroad, in one swell foop, has found that there is no one except a few management folks to dispatch one of the busiest railroads in the country. The hours of service laws say that they can only work 12 hours at a time. But this is an emergency so they're there for perhaps 16 hours. Now they're fatigued beyond belief, and someone creates a head-on wreck. How long would it take the railroad to train and qualify hundreds of new dispatchers at once and keep the railroad running?
In order to be a train dispatcher, or any other craft in railroading you have to be dedicated. Dedication to duty doesn't include the phrase,"Just quit." As time has gone on in this society, many areas of employment have become overburdened with responsibility. Simplistic answers have never solved much, but created a whole lot more. Not necessarily for the positive.

Mitch

[zardoz]

Just think of the potential excitement if the dispatcher's union had decided to do a nationwide strike on all railroads!

I'd be willing to bet that the conditions that led to the strike are not that much different on other railroads.

Although, perhaps a nationwide strike might not be such a good idea--think of what happened to the air traffic controllers.

Too bad MWH is no longer posting; I bet he could have given us a good perspective on the situation.

[eolafan]

OK, I will take another approach here. I apperciate that many of you can not simply quit your jobs as you have mortgages to pay and kids to feed, SO DO I...and I appreciate that you all work hard for your salaries, SO DO I...and I appreciate your point about having worked hard to earn the rights you now have, SO HAVE I.

I have worked in my current position (not a railroad) for over 14 years now and it keeps me traveling away from home about 65-70% of the time and I DON'T LIKE IT, but it is the job I have chosen and I feel obligated to do the job as best I can until I am ready to move on (if it comes to that). Would I like to sleep in my own bed each and every night, SURE WOULD, but I can't and still earn the money they pay me each month, so I continue to do the job well. Do I keep my eyes and ears open for alternate opportunities that would possibly combine more money and a more "normal" work/family mix, YES I DO...and so should you...but until then, DO THE JOB YOU WERE HIRED TO DO AND WHICH YOU ACCEPTED AND ARE TAKING A SALARY TO DO...AND P-L-E-A-S-E STOP GRIPING ABOUT NOT HAVING ANY CHOICES, we all have choices, perhaps not attractive ones, but choices none the less. AGAIN, IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE ENVIRONMENT YOU WORK UNDER, QUIT OR SIMPLY SHUT UP, BUT PLEASE DON'T TAKE YOUR PERSONAL FRUSTRATIONS OUT ON THE INNOCENT COMMUTERS OR RAILRAOD CUSTOMERS WHO INDIRECTLY PAY YOUR WAGES, they don't deserve it! Also, strikes frequently do not garner the strikers much support from the general public and can hurt the unions long term. Take for example the New York City garbage collectors strike in the late 1960's...they thought they would hold all the cards as the public would get behind their cause and force the city to settle and get the garbage off of the streets (believe me that it was a real mess, I lived there at the time), but the real result was the public being anti-union as a result and the bottom line was that the union for the collectors did not get nearly the results for their membership that they had banked on...same thing can happen when you alienate commuters, Amtrak riders, and freight customers.

I believe I have offered enough of my opinions and will now leave it up to fate (that of the union members and of the commuters/customers of the railroads)...LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY!

[spbed]

Well I am no longer a commuter nor did I ever work for a freight RR but maybe I am incorrect vut are not dispatchers covered by some craft union & at this moment that union has a signed agreement with the BNSF? If I am correct then actually the dispatcher strike was illegal the way I see it. [?]

QUOTE: Originally posted by coborn35

QUOTE: Originally posted by JOdom

The striking dispatchers should be locked into a large room with the commuters they delayed. No future dispatchers would repeat that nonsense, because none of the strikers would survive.

Hey, buddy, their just fighting for their rights and trying to get a decent salary and good hours, come on. That was really harsh. I take it you are a commuter and dont work on a freight railroad. I can tell because you obviously have a crappy attitude about people who work on freight railroads and want fair pay and fair working hours. Not trying to p.o. any body but those are my feelings.

[SALfan]

There's a lot about my job that is miserable. I've made the decision to stick with it and retire at the first opportunity. Apparently most railroaders have made the same or similar decision. If it's that terrible, leave. If the pay makes the misery bearable, stay and quit whining. Too many people are like a dog whining because he's lying on a sharp rock; he keeps whining because he's too lazy to get up.

If the dispatchers want to strike to get management's attention, that's fine with me - AS LONG AS THEIR ACTION DOESN'T ADD MISERY TO MY LIFE. Ever heard the old saying, "Your rights stop at the end of my nose"?

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JOdom

There's a lot about my job that is miserable. I've made the decision to stick with it and retire at the first opportunity. Apparently most railroaders have made the same or similar decision. If it's that terrible, leave. If the pay makes the misery bearable, stay and quit whining. Too many people are like a dog whining because he's lying on a sharp rock; he keeps whining because he's too lazy to get up.

If the dispatchers want to strike to get management's attention, that's fine with me - AS LONG AS THEIR ACTION DOESN'T ADD MISERY TO MY LIFE. Ever heard the old saying, "Your rights stop at the end of my nose"?

THANKS A LOT, YOUR POINTS SUPPORT MY CONTENTIONS EXACTLY.

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JOdom

Ever heard the old saying, "Your rights stop at the end of my nose"?

You nose stops at the entrance to my life and my wallet!

[eolafan]

Obviously we have let loose some real emotions here folks, but that is not suprising when some people are involved who are frustrated with their professional situaiton and can not / will not do anything about it but to lash out at the company they are employed by and wi***hey were not, and of course lash out as well at the customers of that comapny who do not control their personal situations but are impacted in a negative way by the frustrations of the company employees.[banghead]

[arbfbe]

Eolafan,

What a simple black and white lifestyle you live in. Would it be that life on the railroads were so simple. Work less for more pay. The Dispatchers are not asking for more pay though the railroads have beed dumping more and more work on them for decades now. Management wants it all their way and will violate the spirit of the labor agreement as well as the specific language of the contract to get it. Due to court decisions and government edict railroad labor organizations can only walk off the job for "major disputes" which translates to contract negotiation issues. Not for safety, not for personal welfare, not on a whim. You see how quickly BNSF was able to force the dispatchers back to work in this instance.

I have two suggestions for you. Check your anti union bias at the forum door. To get a better appreciation of the issues involved make your next move to a career in railroad dispatching. Almost all of the major railroads are short and training is available. It might even pay more than what you are making now.

[AntonioFP45]

Having worked at a transit company for 15 years I could easily picture the types of abuses that can occur on a railroad. For several years I thought unions were obsolete until my fellow co-workers were regularly threatened and intimidated, by new aggressive managers, to violate written contract agreements and work to the point of fatigue. Of course, if an accident occured as a result, it was just the worker's negligence and he or she was hung-to-dry.

I've spoken to professional railroaders and one of the common themes I keep hearing is that the top brass are too far removed from the lower ranks to really know or care what's actually going on. People in the lower ranks often don't even know what the company Vice President or Board members look like. This has always been my point that mega-mergers have this major flaw.

Even back in the 70s there were strikes sometimes, but it seemed that communication between the ranks was much better with smaller Class One roads, like the Rio Grande, Southern or SCL. Railroad presidents like Graham Claytor or Prime Osborn were known for touring their systems and making contact with employees. Simple actions like this helped the work envrionment.

With the inevitable changes, America has really slid down since then. The public will be angry with those dispatchers, but we can't dismiss a hard-charging management team's tactics either.

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

QUOTE: Originally posted by JOdom

Ever heard the old saying, "Your rights stop at the end of my nose"?

You nose stops at the entrance to my life and my wallet!

I don't deny for a minute that railroads treat their employees like crap. And believe me, I'm in the same boat as those railroad people - if I could find a better situation I would, in a heartbeat. That isn't feasible, so I'm going to wait it out and retire ASAP, even though I'll have to work at something else afterwards.

That said, NOTHING GIVES THE DISPATCHERS THE RIGHT TO SCREW UP THE LIVES OF INNOCENT THIRD PARTIES. If you have a dispute with the railroads, fight it out amongst yourselves and LEAVE ME OUT OF IT. There's more than enough aggravation in my life already.

[arbfbe]

JOdom'

So why is it the union that srewed up the lives of innocent parties? It takes two or more to tangle and you have no idea of what the railroad management might have done to precipitate the walkout. So far the only news I have found about the reason for the strike is here;

http://www.ble.org/pr/news/headline.asp?id=12953

Don't let the union website address scare you the story is from the Fort Worth newspaper and is posted witout any union spin or comment.

It does not even suggest the BNSF denies there is a dispute. This is for public dissemination and the reality is probably a lot more messy. The railroads are so understaffed it is amazing. They are planning on new technology to reduce the numbers of dispatchers and others to reduce the total numbers of employees they need. Unfortunately, they enacted the job reductions before the installed the technology.

[BaltACD]

My railroad experience encompasses 40 years....20 year on the managment side and 20 years on the labor side.

Management is 'empowered' by Labor Relations to violate any contract provision that management believes they can get away with. While that policy is not writtten, if you ask Labor Relations for a 'ruling' concerning a contract provision, that is the answer that will be presented to you.

Labor's obligation is to see that Management follows the provisions of the contract as written.

If BNSF management were following the provisions of the BNSF Dispatchers contract there would not have been a work action.

If anyone wants to dump on anyone....DUMP ON BNSF MANAGEMENT for their failure to follow the contract that they agreed to.

[Anonymous]

THey should be awful careful... a server in a cold dark room could take their job, and never have a problem. [:0]

[arbfbe]

Brak710101:

That is management's dream but the reality is there are still a lot of switches that have to be hand lined and trains stopped by detector to be inspected. I doubt the server will have the wherewithall to accompoli***hose tasks with a train crew for some time to come.

A union president does not take his members off the job on a whim. I doubt this job action in Ft Worth was a spur of the moment decision.

[Anonymous]

I do heavy construction and am glad my company is union free. I have been there 5 years and make more than some with 17 years in. I also don't get laid off when its slow,they do. I know many of you are hard workers( you know who you are) but I cant see paying someone lazy or dumb to keep working just because of seniority. [soapbox]

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

In other words, you were a boomer and some of the times you moved on, it was probably because you were furloughed and things weren't looking good. That's 37 years of bouncing around, speaking as one who gave up his seniority a couple of times to try something different, that's a risky move and you never know quite how the landing is going to be. However, you post it so matter-of-factly and you know you were the exception, many who come stay and stick it out and build that seniority or else leave within the first three to five years, if not sooner.

Sorry, never was furloughed.

[Anonymous]

The reality of commuting in Chicago(and probably most big cities) is there are going to be days when commuters are delayed and it doesn't matter what form of transportation one uses. The dispatcher strike(1-1.5 hour delays) got a lot of attention here, but the very next day I-55 was shut down for 5 hours due to a massive 5 truck pileup. I also remember the day when a crane fell through an overpass and blocked the outbound Eisenhower X-way completely for 12 hours. We've also had a number of rail mishaps, strikes, and management lockouts - most notably a time when ALL the commuter railroads shut down for 3 days and folks downtown were parking cars on draw-bridges. The great loop flood even impacted commuters who live and work downtown and walk to work, since many buildings were without power. These were all man-made delays, weather is a whole other story.

It's true that 99+% of the time, one can literaly set their watch based on how the tains run on the BNSF Q-line - that may be why commuters get so upset when things do go wrong. On the other hand they should remember that it's those same dispatchers who are in part responsible for that on-time performance record.

[spbed]

My son who has a degree in labor relations says the proper method is to go to your union with whatever grievance you may have & at that point it is up to your union delegates to correct the situation. To just take a punitive action like was done will in no way correct the situation that was bothering the dispatchers. Most likely the BNSF was aware of the grievance in the 1st place.

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe

Eolafan,

What a simple black and white lifestyle you live in. Would it be that life on the railroads were so simple. Work less for more pay. The Dispatchers are not asking for more pay though the railroads have beed dumping more and more work on them for decades now. Management wants it all their way and will violate the spirit of the labor agreement as well as the specific language of the contract to get it. Due to court decisions and government edict railroad labor organizations can only walk off the job for "major disputes" which translates to contract negotiation issues. Not for safety, not for personal welfare, not on a whim. You see how quickly BNSF was able to force the dispatchers back to work in this instance.

I have two suggestions for you. Check your anti union bias at the forum door. To get a better appreciation of the issues involved make your next move to a career in railroad dispatching. Almost all of the major railroads are short and training is available. It might even pay more than what you are making now.

[banghead] To your comment I say this...Our world would be a much better place to live in if only more of us lived their lives in a more "black and white" fashion...in other words "right and wrong" and not a million different shades of gray. I was raised to believe that right is right and wrong is wrong, with not so very many BUT's in the middle. Oh so many of us have adopted the "ME, ME, ME, ME" philosophy.

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: To your comment I say this...Our world would be a much better place to live in if only more of us lived their lives in a more "black and white" fashion...in other words "right and wrong" and not a million different shades of gray. I was raised to believe that right is right and wrong is wrong, with not so very many BUT's in the middle. Oh so many of us have adopted the "ME, ME, ME, ME" philosophy.

This a wonderful world but Henry VIII was right : "first we will kill all of the lawyers"

[arbfbe]

sped:
Well, I have a degree in Labor Relations as well. Sure, that's the way it is supposed to work but if one side sticks their feet in the mud and refuses to follow the contract the other party is left with little other recourse. Railroads are known for pulling new restrictions on Labor out of thin air and imposing them upon workers as a management perrogative. Unfortunately, this may contradict with unwritten conditions of empolyment, the way things have been done in the past, and thus require negotiations with the unions before they can be imposed. The railroad will never recognize this situation until if has gone to arbitration and the neutral party reminds them. It happens time and time again but management just ignores decades of labor law anytime they want to get things their way. I am sure your son learned that in his classes as well. This is also the period when the next labor contract is under negotiation and the carriers have served some really onerous Section 6 notices upon labor. The chances of labor having an extremely adverse contract shoved down their throats by a Bush appointed Presidential Emergency Board is highly probably. People are not happy and parties are posturing with regard to negotiations.

eolafan:
The texture of life would be so bland if it only came in black and white. The reality is that it does not and you cannot make it that way. Conservatives try everyday with imited successl even after resorting to beatings and murder. Think totalitarian and fascist here. I doubt that is what you really want on a personal level.

bobwilcox:
There are thousands of people in Libby, MT who have been poisoned with asbestos by W.R. Grace company that are relying on lawyers and laws to help them survive for what little time they have left. I doubt they would agree with king Henry VIII and your position. One of the great things ov Democracy over Monarchy is the chance to talk things over instead of having it imposed. See the above note to eolafan, if you like black & white imposed upon you then a monarchy is for you. Never mind what is imposed might be wrong but it is less messy for some.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox

QUOTE: To your comment I say this...Our world would be a much better place to live in if only more of us lived their lives in a more "black and white" fashion...in other words "right and wrong" and not a million different shades of gray. I was raised to believe that right is right and wrong is wrong, with not so very many BUT's in the middle. Oh so many of us have adopted the "ME, ME, ME, ME" philosophy.

This a wonderful world but Henry VIII was right : "first we will kill all of the lawyers"

There is always someone willing to take THAT quote out of context...

LC

[edbenton]

How about getting rid of all the politicians first and start over, but make a new requirement they can not be lawyers they have to know what they are going to be doing. Have a CPA as treasuer and engineers actually right the specs for anything new not a commitee who wants something on it because it looks nice.