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Attempt at derailment

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Posted by Backshop on Saturday, October 28, 2023 6:34 AM

caldreamer

  Terrorists and traitors only long enough to be sentenced and executed.

 

How do you know they're guilty without a trial?   I guess that you would have no problem killing Richard Jewell?

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Posted by alphas on Saturday, October 28, 2023 12:52 AM

 

"And yet the USA has more people behind bars than the rest of the world - country by country."

 

The USA is the 3rd largest country by population so its meaningless to compare it's head count to other counties that have far less population.   Of the two larger countries: 

China is a controlling dictatorship that treats the criminal very harshly; has not allowed the drug problem to develope to what the US has; uses the death penalty for major offenses so there's less long-term prisoners; and has plenty of both slave labor and "prison type" labor that it does not officially count as prisoners.  So no one outside of their government knows what the real prisoner head count actually is. 

I know very little of India's legal system of today.   However, back in the late 60's I worked with an Indian friend.   He told me their justice system was very corrupt and anyone of the right caste or having financial resources could get off.    I'm not aware of India now having the drug problem to anywhere near the extent that the US currently has.

 

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Posted by caldreamer on Friday, October 27, 2023 9:22 PM

 I grew up in Brooklyn and saw what the Mafia controled. As far as Jimmy Hoffa was concerned, He got what he deserved.  It makes me laugh every time the FBI goes hunting for him.  Its been 47 years and they have a better chance of finding Amelia Earhart then they have of finding Jimm hoffa.                          Murderers and drug dealers deserve their day in court.  Terrorists and traitors only long enough to be sentenced and executed.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, October 27, 2023 2:51 PM

caldreamer

I am still not allowed to say.  I do not wish to spend the rest of my life in the super max prison in Florence Colorado.  By the way, such nice people such as Terry Nichols the Oklahoma city bomer and El Chapo are finding out how hard life in that prison is spending 23 hours a day in 7X12 foot room.

 

Sounds like too many video games and meth.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, October 27, 2023 11:47 AM

Psychot
One good rule of thumb for government employees: if someone says they can't tell you what they do, there's about a 99% chance they work some mundane admin job and are trying to sound more important than they are. Those who really can't talk about their work simply throw their fabricated cover legend at you, as they're trained to do.

Been my experience as well also most clearences or a good percentage are issued for just in case you come across something not for you handle secret stuff everyday.   I had a public confidence clearence until recently and it was for just in case.   I never saw anything in 6 years that justified the clearence.   The secrecy in me not being able to tell someone what I did in detail (which I can do now) was because of fear I might be targeted by hackers.......that was it. 

On this topic and back to Trains.   I can understand why railroads want to know who is on or near their property.    I think a lot of railroads use aerial platforms now as well as high rail trucks to keep things secure or to check on things.   The hi rail truck is kind of becomming obsolete in some purposes that it was used in the past for.    Probably still has some utility though.

Reason I mention the paragraph above is you can't just look around and think it is OK to tresspass anymore.   Pretty sure you have to look up now as well.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, October 27, 2023 11:33 AM

caldreamer

I am still not allowed to say.  I do not wish to spend the rest of my life in the super max prison in Florence Colorado.  By the way, such nice people such as Terry Nichols the Oklahoma city bomer and El Chapo are finding out how hard life in that prison is spending 23 hours a day in 7X12 foot room.

What does this even remotely have to do with Trains or Railroads?   

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Posted by NittanyLion on Friday, October 27, 2023 9:53 AM

alphas

"... when we're supposed to be a society that aspires to 'better to let a hundred guilty go free rather than punish one innocent wrongly' as our ideal of the presumption of innocence."

 

That sounds very nice but in today's USA of 350M residents with estimates that 2M or more are involved in gangs and similar plus all the drug related violent crime, actually following that ideal will cause chaos in society.   

My limited experienc participating in the USA criminal justice system is juries usually do a fair job of judging defendents so the system normally works.    Now the civil justice system is another matter.   I believe it is basically now "broken" for various reasons.

 

And if you're so familiar with the system via juries, you'd know that you're instructed to follow that model.  That's why we don't find people innocent and instead call them "not guilty." 

"Err on the side of caution" does not mean that our system is intentionally letting the guilty walk free.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, October 27, 2023 7:11 AM

Psychot
One good rule of thumb for government employees: if someone says they can't tell you what they do, there's about a 99% chance they work some mundane admin job and are trying to sound more important than they are. Those who really can't talk about their work simply throw their fabricated cover legend at you, as they're trained to do.

Before 9/11 a sports car club I belonged to had originally been formed by employees of the National Security Agency at Fort Meade, MD.  The club used the parking lots of the NSA facility to hold 'low speed' competitive events.  Employees, then, could say they worked for NSA, they couldn't tell anyone what it was that they actually did in working for NSA.  NSA and the MP's of Fort Meade enforced one rule at our events on the NSA parking lots - NO CAMERAS!  If the MP's saw a camera in use, they would stop the person and confiscate any film the person had - in the camera or on their person.

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, October 27, 2023 7:11 AM

I've never had a problem telling people what I did (I'm civilian retired), although perhaps not in very much depth.  Most anything I did that was classified is declassified or so out-of-date as to be irrelevant.

OTOH, the government does take potential leaks very seriously.  I haven't been investigated myself, but have been interviewed for a couple...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Psychot on Friday, October 27, 2023 3:37 AM

One good rule of thumb for government employees: if someone says they can't tell you what they do, there's about a 99% chance they work some mundane admin job and are trying to sound more important than they are. Those who really can't talk about their work simply throw their fabricated cover legend at you, as they're trained to do.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, October 26, 2023 11:22 PM

alphas
"... when we're supposed to be a society that aspires to 'better to let a hundred guilty go free rather than punish one innocent wrongly' as our ideal of the presumption of innocence." 

That sounds very nice but in today's USA of 350M residents with estimates that 2M or more are involved in gangs and similar plus all the drug related violent crime, actually following that ideal will cause chaos in society.   

My limited experienc participating in the USA criminal justice system is juries usually do a fair job of judging defendents so the system normally works.    Now the civil justice system is another matter.   I believe it is basically now "broken" for various reasons.

And yet the USA has more people behind bars than the rest of the world - country by country.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by alphas on Thursday, October 26, 2023 10:43 PM

"... when we're supposed to be a society that aspires to 'better to let a hundred guilty go free rather than punish one innocent wrongly' as our ideal of the presumption of innocence."

 

That sounds very nice but in today's USA of 350M residents with estimates that 2M or more are involved in gangs and similar plus all the drug related violent crime, actually following that ideal will cause chaos in society.   

My limited experienc participating in the USA criminal justice system is juries usually do a fair job of judging defendents so the system normally works.    Now the civil justice system is another matter.   I believe it is basically now "broken" for various reasons.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, October 25, 2023 8:09 PM

tree68
 
caldreamer
I do not wish to spend the rest of my life in the super max prison in Florence Colorado. 

What?  No Lompoc Country Club?

How about Jimmy Hoffa U ?

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, October 25, 2023 7:49 PM

caldreamer
I do not wish to spend the rest of my life in the super max prison in Florence Colorado.

What?  No Lompoc Country Club?

LarryWhistling
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Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, October 25, 2023 7:28 PM

Yeah, okay...we believe you.  If you really couldn't say, you wouldn't say that you couldn't say.  You'd just ignore the question.

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Posted by caldreamer on Wednesday, October 25, 2023 6:58 PM

I am still not allowed to say.  I do not wish to spend the rest of my life in the super max prison in Florence Colorado.  By the way, such nice people such as Terry Nichols the Oklahoma city bomer and El Chapo are finding out how hard life in that prison is spending 23 hours a day in 7X12 foot room.

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, October 25, 2023 2:57 PM

caldreamer

I worked for the government for 38 years 

What was your actual job?

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Posted by NittanyLion on Wednesday, October 25, 2023 1:13 PM

Backshop

You never mentioned anything about a trial.  Your writing is sometimes hard to decipher.

 

Indeed, literally said the exact opposite.  The first appearance in court is already the execution!  There's no trial, just an immediate sentencing.  There's no option for an appeal (arguing that there's too many opportunities for an appeal over too long a period is one thing, but explicitly denying the Constitutional right to an appeal is another).

Jarring, to say the least, when we're supposed to be a society that aspires to "better to let a hundred guilty go free rather than punish one innocent wrongly" as our ideal of the presumption of innocence.

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Posted by NKP guy on Tuesday, October 24, 2023 9:01 PM

caldreamer
I worked for the government for 38 years, I have not time for terrorists.  All they are going to do is throw him in prison.  Feed him, give him medical care, let hime out in the prison yard while he is geing guarded.  All on OUR dime.  How much do you think it cost per year and for how many years? My other fantacies are for me to be in a room with a baseball bat with Putin and that little fat boy from North Korea.  Guess who is going to walk out.  Not them.

Dude, you need to seriously reflect upon this line from Robert Burns:

 'O wad some Power the giftie gie us / To see oursels as ithers see us! ' 

 

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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, October 24, 2023 8:50 PM

You never mentioned anything about a trial.  Your writing is sometimes hard to decipher.

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Posted by caldreamer on Tuesday, October 24, 2023 6:09 PM

I worked for the government for 38 years, I have not time for terrorists.  All they are going to do is throw him in prison.  Feed him, give him medical care, let hime out in the prison yard while he is geing guarded.  All on OUR dime.  How much do you think it cost per year and for how many years?

My other fantacies are for me to be in a room with a baseball bat with Putin and that little fat boy from North Korea.  Guess who is going to walk out.  Not them.

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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, October 24, 2023 4:03 PM

caldreamer

Overmod, et al:

  A "fair trial" for someone who derails a train under all circumstances would be:

1. The defendent is brought into the court room for the first time and sees the electric chair plugged in and ready to go.         

2. The judge is seated and says "You have been found guilty.  Would you like to be regular or extra crispy?".

3. End of terrorist!!!.

 

 

That's just a little bit scary.  What other sick little fantasies do you think about?

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, October 24, 2023 3:57 PM

caldreamer
Overmod, et al:

  A "fair trial" for someone who derails a train under all circumstances would be:

1. The defendent is brought into the court room for the first time and sees the electric chair plugged in and ready to go.         

2. The judge is seated and says "You have been found guilty.  Would you like to be regular or extra crispy?".

3. End of terrorist!!!.

Vlad!  Vlad!  Vlad!  That may be OK in Moscow, Peking, Tehran or Punyang! Not in the United States of America.

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Posted by J. Bishop on Tuesday, October 24, 2023 3:15 PM

There is a book on that -- "Tragic Train," by Don DeNevi.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, October 24, 2023 1:49 PM

Obviously has a problem with the Bill Of Rights.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, October 24, 2023 1:20 PM

Wow. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by caldreamer on Tuesday, October 24, 2023 1:15 PM

Overmod, et al:

  A "fair trial" for someone who derails a train under all circumstances would be:

1. The defendent is brought into the court room for the first time and sees the electric chair plugged in and ready to go.         

2. The judge is seated and says "You have been found guilty.  Would you like to be regular or extra crispy?".

3. End of terrorist!!!.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, October 24, 2023 7:49 AM

Erik_Mag
 
BaltACD

I believe one of the City streamlines was derailed in Arizona or New Mexico during the war when a rail was removed and signals configured to hid it.  I don't believe any was apprehended for the crime. 

I'm pretty sure you are referring to the August 1939 intentional derailment of the CoSF in northern Nevada. There was one suspect, but apparently there wasn't enough evidence to charge him. The incident on Amtrak's Sunset Limited west of Phoenix was an eerily similar cause.

And in 1939 there weren't nearly the same levels of 'defendant protections' in the prosecutions of criminal cases that exist in the 21st century legal system.  Of course the 21st century forensic tools to provide evidence didn't exist either.

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Monday, October 23, 2023 11:47 PM

BaltACD

I believe one of the City streamlines was derailed in Arizona or New Mexico during the war when a rail was removed and signals configured to hid it.  I don't believe any was apprehended for the crime.

I'm pretty sure you are referring to the August 1939 intentional derailment of the CoSF in northern Nevada. There was one suspect, but apparently there wasn't enough evidence to charge him. The incident on Amtrak's Sunset Limited west of Phoenix was an eerily similar cause.

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