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BNSF left hanging as Yellow files bankruptcy

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BNSF left hanging as Yellow files bankruptcy
Posted by greyhounds on Sunday, August 6, 2023 11:56 PM

BNSF was among those listed as "Unsecured Creditors" as Yellow Freight filed chapter 11 bankruptcy late Sunday afternoon.  It looks like liquidation of Yellow's assets is next.

I wonder how much is owed to the BNSF and if they'll eventually get any of it.

This will be paywalled:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trucker-yellow-files-for-bankruptcy-will-liquidate-aced4aa6?mod=hp_lead_pos1

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, August 7, 2023 7:01 AM

Likely pennies on the dollar. I had a customer go bankrupt..owed me about $10K...after all said and done I got $430.00. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 7, 2023 7:26 AM

The ones that will get the bulk of any funds will be the bankruptcy lawyers.  Creditors be damned.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by MP173 on Monday, August 7, 2023 10:12 AM

Yellow's stock has taken a "dead cat bounce"...up 300% last week.  Why?

Possible covering of short sales or possibly the asset sales will cover liabilities.  They own 160 terminal properties and also a considerable number of late model tractors (typically day cabs) and trailers which was funded by the $700m loan from Feds in 2020 which was partially converted to equity.

My employer is owed considerable (for us) by Yellow.  

Very interesting article in Saturday's WSJ - an interview with Sean O'Brian the Teamsters head.  His attitude was some will suffer but Yellow had to go.  Some numbered 22,000.  He was very happy about the UPS settlement.  It has been theorized that Teamsters invested in negotiating with UPS much more than Yellow, possibly true as they saw that yellow was a dying horse.

Ed

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, August 7, 2023 10:43 AM

BaltACD

The ones that will get the bulk of any funds will be the bankruptcy lawyers.  Creditors be damned.

 

Yes, the lawyers always win. 

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Posted by MP173 on Monday, August 7, 2023 11:10 AM

An interesting look at bankruptcy (Reading Railroad) is "Derailed" by Howard Lewis.  It has been a few years since I read it, but Lewis was named as Trustee of the Reading and was in charge of settling the accounts. It took years and drained him of his career.  He died in 2016 and if I recall was bitter of how his law firm treated him.

He did settle for 3x what the Feds offered.

Interesting read if one can find it.

Not necessarily a "railfan" book, more historical content of the Reading bankruptcy.

BTW...BNSF and others (including my employer) knew what they were dealing with (Yellow).  The writing was on the wall, in yellow ink, for years.

Ed

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Monday, August 7, 2023 3:37 PM

If you all may recall. Yellow Corp and BNSF forged a deal for COFC traffic back in 2019. BNSF financed the purchase of 600 53' containers for Yellow Corp. I imagine Yellow fell behind on payments to be made back to BNSF.

Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, August 7, 2023 4:58 PM

MP173

An interesting look at bankruptcy (Reading Railroad) is "Derailed" by Howard Lewis.  It has been a few years since I read it, but Lewis was named as Trustee of the Reading and was in charge of settling the accounts. It took years and drained him of his career.  He died in 2016 and if I recall was bitter of how his law firm treated him.

He did settle for 3x what the Feds offered.

Interesting read if one can find it.

Not necessarily a "railfan" book, more historical content of the Reading bankruptcy.

BTW...BNSF and others (including my employer) knew what they were dealing with (Yellow).  The writing was on the wall, in yellow ink, for years.

Ed

 

I was checking the University of Indiana Press site because of some new releases. They have the book mentioned, "Derailed by the Reading" listed as available. 

Jeff

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Posted by CatFoodFlambe on Wednesday, August 9, 2023 8:11 PM

MP173

Yellow's stock has taken a "dead cat bounce"...up 300% last week.  Why?

Possible covering of short sales or possibly the asset sales will cover liabilities.  They own 160 terminal properties and also a considerable number of late model tractors (typically day cabs) and trailers which was funded by the $700m loan from Feds in 2020 which was partially converted to equity.

My employer is owed considerable (for us) by Yellow.  

Very interesting article in Saturday's WSJ - an interview with Sean O'Brian the Teamsters head.  His attitude was some will suffer but Yellow had to go.  Some numbered 22,000.  He was very happy about the UPS settlement.  It has been theorized that Teamsters invested in negotiating with UPS much more than Yellow, possibly true as they saw that yellow was a dying horse.

Ed

 

 

More than just theory - Yellow was a dead man trucking.    Their operating ratio was floating close to 100% - and they had long since disposed of any assets that were not essential to day-to-day operations unless they could implement the "one Yellow" model.   When you don't generate any profit in your operations, there's nothing left to service the MASSIVE debt they took on to pay for the USF (Holland, Reddaway, and New Penn) acquision.    

They were a high-cost operation trying to complete as a low-cost carrier - and utterly doomed to a very short future no matter what the Teamsters gave back.   Instead, the Teamster wisely used Yellow (about 22K Teamsters)to win their negotiations with UPS (340K Teamsters - the largest single union contract in the US).   

 

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Posted by rrnut282 on Thursday, August 31, 2023 11:57 AM

It doesn't look very wise when you're one of the 22k thrown in the trash after paying the same union dues as the other guys. 

 

CatFoodFlambe

 They were a high-cost operation trying to complete as a low-cost carrier - and utterly doomed to a very short future no matter what the Teamsters gave back.   Instead, the Teamster wisely used Yellow (about 22K Teamsters)to win their negotiations with UPS (340K Teamsters - the largest single union contract in the US).   

 

Mike (2-8-2)
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 31, 2023 12:54 PM

rrnut282
It doesn't look very wise when you're one of the 22k thrown in the trash after paying the same union dues as the other guys.  
CatFoodFlambe

 They were a high-cost operation trying to complete as a low-cost carrier - and utterly doomed to a very short future no matter what the Teamsters gave back.   Instead, the Teamster wisely used Yellow (about 22K Teamsters)to win their negotiations with UPS (340K Teamsters - the largest single union contract in the US).   

If you concede to a carrier that you view as one that will STILL FAIL despite your concessions.  You don't make the concessions.  Yellow never gave indications that it could be a profitable ongoing concern, no matter how much help it was given.

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Posted by CatFoodFlambe on Friday, September 1, 2023 6:29 PM

Tell me about it! Super Angry

I was an operations manager for two LTL trucking companies in the 1980's and 1990's (St. Johnsbury and NW Transport (renamed as Nationsway Transport.   I stayed with "Saint J" to the bitter end (and during the closeout operation as well),  and bailed on NWTP for a completely new career about six months before they shut down. 


rrnut282

It doesn't look very wise when you're one of the 22k thrown in the trash after paying the same union dues as the other guys. 

 

 
CatFoodFlambe

 They were a high-cost operation trying to complete as a low-cost carrier - and utterly doomed to a very short future no matter what the Teamsters gave back.   Instead, the Teamster wisely used Yellow (about 22K Teamsters)to win their negotiations with UPS (340K Teamsters - the largest single union contract in the US).   

 

 

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Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, September 1, 2023 10:47 PM

[quote user="Ulrich"]

BaltACD

The ones that will get the bulk of any funds will be the bankruptcy lawyers.  Creditors be damned.

Yes, the lawyers always win. 

 /quote]
 
 
You also have to wonder; How bjg a pay cut did the "UNION Big Shots" have to take as they jettisoned some 22,000 Dues paying members???  

 

 


 

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, September 2, 2023 8:49 PM

samfp1943

Ulrich
BaltACD

The ones that will get the bulk of any funds will be the bankruptcy lawyers.  Creditors be damned.

Yes, the lawyers always win. 

   

 
You also have to wonder; How bjg a pay cut did the "UNION Big Shots" have to take as they jettisoned some 22,000 Dues paying members???  

Do you make concessions that really won't save 22K jobs because of the very ineptness of the company seeking the concessions or do you negotiate improved contract conditions with 370K jobs.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by greyhounds on Sunday, September 3, 2023 2:19 AM

I read that the amount owed to BNSF is 6.3 million dollars.  That isn't going to break BNSF by a long shot.

But you can bet that sommeone in Ft. Worth has been assigned to get the money owned to BNSF.

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by diningcar on Wednesday, September 6, 2023 3:39 PM

This month's TRAINS MAGAZINE has a story which puts the container business in perspective. BNSF has the JB Hunt business, which my old boss Michael Haverty secured while being President of the Santa Fe, and BNSF is handling the container business very well. 

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Posted by SFbrkmn on Friday, September 8, 2023 12:52 PM

diningcar

This month's TRAINS MAGAZINE has a story which puts the container business in perspective. BNSF has the JB Hunt business, which my old boss Michael Haverty secured while being President of the Santa Fe, and BNSF is handling the container business very well. 

 Depends on the level of train the containers are on. highlightted exzempt Z, should be fine. Lower tier non-priority Z or a Q symbol with throttle restrictions & isolation requirement, then the movement might take while.                                Sam is 

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Posted by rdamon on Friday, September 15, 2023 7:27 AM

https://www.bnsf.com/news-media/news-releases/newsrelease.page?relId=jb-hunt-to-acquire-brokerage-assets-of-bnsf-logistics

LOWELL, Ark. and FORT WORTH, Texas – Today, J.B. Hunt Transport Services Inc. (NASDAQ: JBHT), one of the largest supply chain solutions providers in North America, and Burlington Northern Santa Fe, LLC announced J.B. Hunt’s subsidiary, J.B. Hunt Transport, Inc., has entered into a definitive agreement to purchase the brokerage operations of BNSF Logistics, LLC. 

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Friday, September 22, 2023 2:04 PM

It's getting to the point where those who work in the OTR industry are just wondering when BNSF will just pull the trigger on buying JB Hunt totally to create a seamless logistical system that can go coast to coast.  This has happened in the past with NS buying North American van lines but nothing on this scale.  They have 24k power units 27k drivers and last year ran over 1.6 billion miles on the road let alone what their containers did on the BNSF.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, September 23, 2023 1:51 PM

Doesn't the Hunt family enjoy being in the trucking business?

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, September 24, 2023 7:35 AM

JB Hunt has been a publicly traded company for decades.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, September 24, 2023 4:12 PM

Shadow the Cats owner
...to create a seamless logistical system that can go coast to coast.

Someone would probably try to invoke "antitrust" somehow...

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Sunday, September 24, 2023 9:24 PM

It would be very hard as you have many choices in the OTR industry for transportation and several other class 1 railroads in the railroad side.  Heck at one point CSX owned a container shipping line UP owned Overnite transportation NS as mentioned had North American.  Hell Amazon has an airline trucking and delivery service for it's own business run by it's own carriers up to the final mile where they tend to hand it off to the postal service.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 25, 2023 2:06 PM

Yes,  Backshop, but who has the controlling interest and runs the company?

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Monday, September 25, 2023 2:28 PM

daveklepper

Yes,  Backshop, but who has the controlling interest and runs the company?

 

 

Right now most of the shares are still controlled by the Hunt family or the employees of JB Hunt.  Most vulture capital companies stay way away from OTR carriers.  Why this industry is way to freaking volatile for their own blood.  

 

You can be a 2k truck fleet one month and 3 months later be bankrupt if you guess wrong on your fuel costs or lose your biggest customers or have a massive loss in a lawsuit aka Knight Transportation about a decade ago.  

 

Knight literally went out due to one accident were a Federal Judge basically said due to your actions related to the aftermath of the accident you're not allowed to have a defense against the plaintiff.  Then their own insurance companies all said YOYO there and the settlement was in the order of a modern day NFL quarterback contract amount.  This was just prior to fuel jumping to over 4 bucks a gallon.  They ended up having to get bought by Swift for basically pennies on the dollar.  

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, September 25, 2023 3:48 PM

daveklepper

Yes,  Backshop, but who has the controlling interest and runs the company?

 

Institutional ownership--                     40.4%

Institutional mutual fund ownership--- 32.7%

Mutual fund ownership---                     7.8%

Insider ownership---                            2.1%

Other---                                            17.1%

Forbes says that JB's widow owns almost 18%.  So no one really has a controlling interest. She's 91 years old and has no position in the company.

Johnelle Hunt (forbes.com)

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Posted by MP173 on Monday, September 25, 2023 4:39 PM

Slightly "on topic" again...rumor I heard was that the Yellow asset sale will go very quickly and priced higher than anticipated.  

Terminals are in play with Estes at over $1.5B and rumor is that Estes wants all 28 ft pups and Amazon will take recent 53 ft trailers.

BNSF (and others) might end up fully paid.

Ed

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 27, 2023 2:07 AM

My main point is that there isn't any  reason for Hunt to sell to anybody.  The present arrangement between Hunt and BNSF befits  both parties, and their is no reason to change it.

NS-BNSF AND CSX-UP dual mergers would make a lot more sense, if the STB would permit it.  Or the combination you prefer.

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, September 27, 2023 8:07 AM

daveklepper

My main point is that there isn't any  reason for Hunt to sell to anybody.  The present arrangement between Hunt and BNSF befits  both parties, and their is no reason to change it. 

Your point would only apply if it was a privately held company.  If it's publically traded, a good enough offer will make anyone sell.  What Warren wants, Warren gets! Right now, there's a fight going on to buy US Steel, even though they weren't for sale. Cleveland Cliffs seems to have the inside track. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, September 30, 2023 4:25 PM

You are assuming that largely privately-held (Birkshire) BNSF would wish to putchase Hunt, while BNSF selling their forewarding subsifdiary bto Hunt suggests the opposite.

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