In the following clip, it appears (from a limited visible area) that some cars would have remained upright if the couplers would have been able to prevent the twisting force to rotate the next coupler. If that's true (I'm likely missing something), why wouldn't couplers be allowed to rotate? If nothing else, have a shear pin that would hold the coupler straight until something like this happened?
https://youtu.be/SlQulZt1_A4?t=174
Wonder if a rotary coupler would have made any difference. The car isn't rotating around a stationary coupler, the way cars do in a car dumper.
Have to love the people that walk up to an overturned tankcar without knowing what's in it.
Most of us watching here know it didn't have a placard, but I'm guessing those people didn't take notice to that fact at the time.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
A few weeks ago, I was at that very crossing. There was a Lake State Railway train stopped right to the north.
timz Wonder if a rotary coupler would have made any difference. The car isn't rotating around a stationary coupler, the way cars do in a car dumper.
The whole idea of tight lock couplers is to keep the couplers together so they can't pierce adjacent cars.
Given that most uses of rotary couplers involve unit trains of the same types of cars, I suspect that the Pinto concept applies. Maintaining and dealing with them on a daily basis would be a bigger problem than the occasional derailment of this kind.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 timz Wonder if a rotary coupler would have made any difference. The car isn't rotating around a stationary coupler, the way cars do in a car dumper. The whole idea of tight lock couplers is to keep the couplers together so they can't pierce adjacent cars. Given that most uses of rotary couplers involve unit trains of the same types of cars, I suspect that the Pinto concept applies. Maintaining and dealing with them on a daily basis would be a bigger problem than the occasional derailment of this kind.
If you are a 'real engineering' type you could keep a number of computers busy calculating the various stresses that get applied to the important aspects of the cars, second to second as they are involved in major derailments. If you are a 'olde time' engineer you could burn out a slide rule.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I still remember the extended 5 mph bumpers on automobiles in the 1970's. Thank goodness that standard was amended. I venture to guess the answer to rotary couplers is the same. You can go too far with safety standards in that the cost for having them outweighs the risk mitigation.
I think it would be more safe for a conductor riding equipment to clip onto a freight car ladder with a carbiner if they are going to ride it for switching BUT I think that would probably be more hassle than it's worth and probably be another safety issue.
Perry Babin In the following clip, it appears (from a limited visible area) that some cars would have remained upright if the couplers would have been able to prevent the twisting force to rotate the next coupler. If that's true (I'm likely missing something), why wouldn't couplers be allowed to rotate? If nothing else, have a shear pin that would hold the coupler straight until something like this happened? https://youtu.be/SlQulZt1_A4?t=174
CMStPnPI think it would be more safe for a conductor riding equipment to clip onto a freight car ladder with a carbiner if they are going to ride it for switching BUT I think that would probably be more hassle than it's worth and probably be another safety issue.
A very real safety issue if one gets into a situation where they need to dismount quickly! No way would I have ever done that!!!
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You wouldn't use a screw-lock carabiner. There are very quick safetly hooks that can be released about as quickly as you can let go with your hand. Probably not important since I've never heard of a conductor falling off of a train.
Perry BabinProbably not important since I've never heard of a conductor falling off of a train.
It happens. Just one example, from the Royal Gorge Scenic RR
https://kdvr.com/news/husband-of-royal-gorge-train-conductor-killed-in-accident-shares-story/
Or yesterday.
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/csx-conductor-trainee-killed-in-maryland-yard-accident/
Perry Babin Probably not important since I've never heard of a conductor falling off of a train.
Probably not important since I've never heard of a conductor falling off of a train.
One of the tests for prospective NS conductors is hanging off the side of a car for two minutes. May not sound like much, but...
I think you'll find that for regular extended push/shove moves, a "shove platform" (AKA a caboose) will be used, or the conductor will find a safe place to stand.
The carabiner or other hook is the easy part. There's the rest of the harness that has to be maintained and tested periodically.
DJ of djstrains on Youtube is a CSX engineer and just posted a video of a talk that he just gave at a steel mill railroad modelers convention. He said that there's a regular 3 mile backup move that is done in the Pittsburgh area at night, over a bridge over the Monongehela River with the conductor hanging on to the lead car.
Found it! (9) Railroad Operations, Incredible Footage, Industrial Modeling Tips & MORE! - YouTube
tree68One of the tests for prospective NS conductors is hanging off the side of a car for two minutes. May not sound like much, but...
Even in many industrial settings two minutes is a insignificant amount of time to be protecting the shove and hanging on the side of a car, and after a relatively short amount of time every additional second seems like a minute if not an hour.
People who know railroads were so against it, I wasn't going to argue the pros/cons. I would use a harness if I had to be in a situation where I could fall. The harness wouldn't need to be intrusive or heavy since it's not a full fall arrest harness that's meant to absorb energy from a long fall like those for tower climbers. Look at climbers' harness that can arrest falls of 10+ feet. They are inexpensive (about $25) and lightweight (about 2lbs).
Yes. About 3 months.
BaltACDEven in many industrial settings two minutes is a insignificant amount of time to be protecting the shove and hanging on the side of a car, and after a relatively short amount of time every additional second seems like a minute if not an hour.
I'm a tall guy. The grab irons on the sides of 1950's era passenger cars weren't designed for guys like me. It does get uncomfortable fast...
Perry BabinPeople who know railroads were so against it, I wasn't going to argue the pros/cons. I would use a harness if I had to be in a situation where I could fall. The harness wouldn't need to be intrusive or heavy since it's not a full fall arrest harness that's meant to absorb energy from a long fall like those for tower climbers. Look at climbers' harness that can arrest falls of 10+ feet. They are inexpensive (about $25) and lightweight (about 2lbs). Yes. About 3 months.
In "Ferris Bueler's Day Off" there is the statement 'Life comes at you fast'.
Life comes at you even faster when you are on the side of a car being shoved at 4 - 8 - 10 MPH and maybe even a little faster. When you see the situation that will dictate you GET OFF the car NOW! You don't want to go having to figure out how to unfasten a device that has you affixed to the car. Every move a crew makes is INTENDED to be made safely, however, reality being what it is - S..t Happens and being on the side of a car that is now a unsafe place to be. That realization comes at you FAST. Faster than you want to try manipulate some device to let you leave the car.
deleted.
People who know railroads were so against it, I wasn't going to argue the pros/cons. << Previous statement. Still stands.
Backshop DJ of djstrains on Youtube is a CSX engineer and just posted a video of a talk that he just gave at a steel mill railroad modelers convention. He said that there's a regular 3 mile backup move that is done in the Pittsburgh area at night, over a bridge over the Monongehela River with the conductor hanging on to the lead car. Found it! (9) Railroad Operations, Incredible Footage, Industrial Modeling Tips & MORE! - YouTube
I used to be the engineer on that shoving move to GalvTech. We had a caboose for the conductor to ride. Shoving that far was still a pain since you had to protect the many road crossing at night. I got the yardmaster to have the train built with the locomotive leading and left the caboose in the yard. That way we could run at main track speed.
The siding at GalvTech is on a down grade so we cut the engine off and ran into the GalvTech spur. Then we would bleed off the air in the cars and let them roll past the switch in order to get the engine on the other end.
Mark Vinski
Perry Babin People who know railroads were so against it, I wasn't going to argue the pros/cons. I would use a harness if I had to be in a situation where I could fall. The harness wouldn't need to be intrusive or heavy since it's not a full fall arrest harness that's meant to absorb energy from a long fall like those for tower climbers. Look at climbers' harness that can arrest falls of 10+ feet. They are inexpensive (about $25) and lightweight (about 2lbs). Yes. About 3 months.
mvlandsw The siding at GalvTech is on a down grade so we cut the engine off and ran into the GalvTech spur. Then we would bleed off the air in the cars and let them roll past the switch in order to get the engine on the other end.
We used to do that at one of our customers. Worked like a charm. Letting the cars roll by with the air left bottled and released works too, then you have the option of opening the angle cock on the trailing car to stop them in case the handbrake you chose to ride didn't work so well. We also had one of those special car moving pry bars hidden near the switch in case the cars stalled and trapped the engine in the spur.
Riding the point for several miles is common, and while it can be uncomfortable it is often the quickest and easiest way to get the job done. I, too would not want to be strapped to a car for the reasons mentioned. In situations where a B/O car has to be set out enroute you may have to leave the trailing portion of the train behind and limp the defective car to the nearest siding or back track, which might be 10 or 15 miles away, maybe more. Then you may have to ride all the way back to the train.
Back to the original topic of this thread, even coal gons only have a rotary drawbar at one end of the car, the opposite end has a regular solid drawbar. In unit coal trains all the cars are supposed to face the same way, and there are a few special 'double rotary' cars so both ends of the trainset will have a rotary coupler facing outward. If you have two rotary drawbars coupled together there will be nothing fixing them in place, and it is possible for the two to start turning around together as the train moves along the track. Once they get far enough around the locking block inside the coupler will fall 'up', allowing the knuckle to open and the train will come apart. Then the conductor gets to walk back there with a big pry bar and try to turn them back again.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/438302/
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Perry Babin People who know railroads were so against it, I wasn't going to argue the pros/cons. << Previous statement. Still stands.
Don't feel too bad, nobody liked my idea of talking train horns with voice dubbing for colorful metaphors.
Were you going to use it to tell railfanners to get a life? It seems that train crews really dislike railfanners (railfoamers).
We dislike obnoxious foamers who trespass or otherwise make fools of themselves. That last part includes refusing to listen to advice about why the professionals do things in certain ways.
'Advice' would indicate that you believe that I'm going to do anything regarding railroads or trains. I simply ask questions and may ask follow-up questions to better understand why things are done (or not done). Unless at a level crossing, I'll never be within a mile of a train or railroad track.
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