Convicted OnePersonally, I think the sensors are going to need to be spaced closer together, additionally include some form of "trend analysis" to make informed decisions with the data collected, and perhaps include some sort of visual component too. Which no doubt will encounter resistance because people will have to be paid to monitor them.
Detectors don't like it when you stop or go slow over them. That can limit placement. Seems like the technology needs improved a little in that regard. But I'm no maintainer.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Euclid I would say that the narrative involves monster trains, ECP brakes, and other safety technology, particularly hotbox detectors.
The acrobats contorting to insist that the railroad did nothing wrong, how in the name of common sense can you have a train showering sparks for over 20 miles (the other accident) , and pretend nothing is wrong with that picture? "Fire hazard"?....hello?
And I'm not saying that from the perspective that the railroad should be punished. I'm just pointing out there should be little difficulty in finding a place to start with needed improvements to the status quo.
ns145 Videos of the derailment taken from cars stopped at the crossing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZNNRdgnSE https://www.youtube.com/embed/7jddyvXKgnU
Videos of the derailment taken from cars stopped at the crossing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZNNRdgnSE
https://www.youtube.com/embed/7jddyvXKgnU
All of us railfans need to take a very hard lesson from these 2 videos. Notice that both cars with cameras did not stop close to the stop line. Also as soon as derailment started they backed away. Guys stay away from the tracks either in cars or on foot. It can happen anytime of loose lading ( more likely ) or cars coming off the rail.
Flintlock76In my admittedly inexpert opinion 215 car trains are an insanity.
FWIW, I completely agree with you. Building trains that long are part of the strategy to maximize economic metrics (the "profit over safety" complaint some here seem so resistant to acknowledge as part of the problem)
And, IMO, it's an evolutionary process, if "some is good" then necessarily more must be better. (chain of compromises made in pursuit of profit, that is). We didn't get to this point overnight.
Just as a simple illustration, you start out with short trains easily supervised by humans riding in a caboose providing a watchfull eye, Trains get longer, line of sight becomes more challenging. IN THE PURSUIT OF EFFICIENCY, men are reduced and an array of new wonderful tech is devised to take their place. Creative minds push these efficiencies to (and beyond) their limits. That's where I think we are now, somebody got overly content that the tech being used was foolproof, and 215+ car trains just seemed like the "efficient" direction we needed to pursue. And we are getting feedback now that some of those assumptions were overly ambitious.
Personally, I think the sensors are going to need to be spaced closer together, additionally include some form of "trend analysis" to make informed decisions with the data collected, and perhaps include some sort of visual component too. Which no doubt will encounter resistance because people will have to be paid to monitor them.
Either that, or shorter trains, with an onboard safety officer riding in an observation car featuring a raised patform, at the rear of the train.
tree68I mentioned before that one measure for components in a number of industries is the MTBF, or mean time between failure. Someone mentioned earlier that the bearing in question was basically designed to outlive the axle it's mounted on. That's why it's call MEAN time - it's the average. Some fail earlier, some fail later.
What is an adequate mean [and yes, some of us understannd mean or median and standard deviation for that matter] in some situations is completely unacceptable in others. Context matters.
zugmann charlie hebdo If this trend of major derailments continues, the specter of a temporary involuntary cessation of operations may be invoked until they can demonstrate the capability of safe operations. Invoked by the same people that wouldn't allow a strike for a day because it would cause irreparable damage to the supply chain and economy?
charlie hebdo If this trend of major derailments continues, the specter of a temporary involuntary cessation of operations may be invoked until they can demonstrate the capability of safe operations.
Invoked by the same people that wouldn't allow a strike for a day because it would cause irreparable damage to the supply chain and economy?
I bet there's 6 other Class One railroads that are glad that the public and the news media are focused on NS.
charlie hebdoIf this trend of major derailments continues, the specter of a temporary involuntary cessation of operations may be invoked until they can demonstrate the capability of safe operations.
charlie hebdoSo what is the threshold for strong actions to be taken or ordered?
Hard to say. Sometimes it's one event - Chatsworth led to an emergency order banning cell phone from locomotive cabs (now codified in RR rulebooks). Lac Megantic led to an EO about securing trains, also now codified in rulebooks.
I'm sure that all the railroads (and car owners) are looking at their defect detectors and car inspections after East Palestine. But their preventative measures are already in place - inadequate as they were in this particular case.
We don't know what caused the derailment at Springfield yet. If it's another failed bearing, you can be sure that there will be orders to inspect, etc. If it was something unrelated, you can chalk it up to another of the 1,000 derailments that occur each year.
I mentioned before that one measure for components in a number of industries is the MTBF, or mean time between failure. Someone mentioned earlier that the bearing in question was basically designed to outlive the axle it's mounted on. That's why it's call MEAN time - it's the average. Some fail earlier, some fail later.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68While those two incidents were occurring, fifty trains a day passed the Deshler cameras without incident...
So what is the threshold for strong actions to be taken or ordered?
tree68And it did look like there was some damage to the storage facility. Just a door or two, but it appeared it did get hit.
A door or two they can live with, although it shouldn't have happened anyway. I'm sure they'll seek damages from NS but I'm also sure the owner of the place is offering a silent prayer of thanks, it could have been much worse.
While those two incidents were occurring, fifty trains a day passed the Deshler cameras without incident...
Meanwhile, not running will cause economic impacts that go far beyond that of the two derailments.
And it did look like there was some damage to the storage facility. Just a door or two, but it appeared it did get hit.
ns145Good news is that the classic NYC/CR era Type G signals didn't get taken out.
Hey, it's a miracle that storage facility wasn't taken out.
ns145 Videos of the derailment taken from cars stopped at the crossing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZNNRdgnSE
To JayBee's point which I think is the cause as well.
There's a longer version of this video on instagram which has better sound, and you can hear about 5-8 seconds before the derailment. A loud bang that sounds awfully similiar to severe slack action.
tree68 Springfield, OH. Reportedly no hazmat. A fellow at the OH 41 crossing got part of the derailment on video. NS can't catch a break... https://www.whio.com/news/local/deputies-medics-respond-train-accident-springfield/KZUQMTBAKVD3NHMSCLICGXCGYE/ 39.90434 -83.73008
Springfield, OH. Reportedly no hazmat.
A fellow at the OH 41 crossing got part of the derailment on video.
NS can't catch a break...
https://www.whio.com/news/local/deputies-medics-respond-train-accident-springfield/KZUQMTBAKVD3NHMSCLICGXCGYE/
39.90434 -83.73008
If this trend of major derailments continues, the specter of a temporary involuntary cessation of operations may be invoked until they can demonstrate the capability of safe operations.
Good news is that the classic NYC/CR era Type G signals didn't get taken out.
NS is definitely losing the PR war. While looking for this video clip I ran across some local newscast footage where they listed out the 5 derailments that NS has had in Ohio since last Fall.
JayBee 215 car trains with empty centerbeams in the middle is a recipe for problems.
215 car trains with empty centerbeams in the middle is a recipe for problems.
There are a couple of videos shot at the crossing on-line now. One starts after the whole thing started, but the other, from the other side of the train, appears to show a rolled steel car derailed as it went across the crossing.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. In my admittedly inexpert opinion 215 car trains are an insanity.
Oh brother. Has the once-mighty Norfolk-Southern turned into a house of cards?
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