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What Happened To Plymouth Locomotive?

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What Happened To Plymouth Locomotive?
Posted by JoeBlow on Friday, July 1, 2022 6:57 PM

Plymouth was a major builder of small locomotives for a long time and then it disapeared after it was aquired by Ohio Locomotive Crane. What happened? Did Ohio Locomotive mismanage Plymouth after they aquired it? Was Plymouth already in an irreversable decline before it was aquired? With other mom and pop operations, such as brookeville, why no Plymouth?

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 1, 2022 7:18 PM

JoeBlow
Plymouth was a major builder of small locomotives for a long time and then it disapeared after it was aquired by Ohio Locomotive Crane. What happened? Did Ohio Locomotive mismanage Plymouth after they aquired it? Was Plymouth already in an irreversable decline before it was aquired? With other mom and pop operations, such as brookeville, why no Plymouth?

No idea.  One thing is that Plymouth's heyday was when loaded freight cars were in the 50-60 ton gross weight.  With today's freight cars favoring the gross weight at the 286K, it doesn't take many cars to be way beyond the ability of any thing Plymouth built to be able to hanle.  Secondly, as time passed, 1st Generation diesels, both switchers and road units became plentiful and cheap on the second hand locomotive market and they had abilities far in excess of what Plymouth was building.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, July 1, 2022 7:38 PM

Plymouth 'Engines' that I recall seeing ( and there were not many!); seemed to be mopre of a 'cobbled together' product(?).... The frame and ody seemed tom be a fairly  well put together product, ut the 'power' seemed to be sadly lacking in oooom;lpgh(?).., The engines I saw ran the gamot of flat heaqd Fords, and automotive 'refits', to obviously, under-powered six cylinders of automotive origins; BaltACD is right on target with his assessment of them.    Their target market seemed to be small mining operators, sand pits, and gravel pits, and small plants where one car might need top be moved sort distance ?

In the 1950's, and into the 19 60 's, there was a lot of fully-sized power from all manufacturers available to move heavier loads, around, if needed..  

 

 


 

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, July 1, 2022 7:55 PM

samfp1943
In the 1950's, and into the 19 60 's, there was a lot of fully-sized power from all manufacturers available to move heavier loads, around, if needed..  

Even the traditional end cab switcher is getting rare...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Backshop on Friday, July 1, 2022 8:09 PM

tree68

 

 
samfp1943
In the 1950's, and into the 19 60 's, there was a lot of fully-sized power from all manufacturers available to move heavier loads, around, if needed..  

 

Even the traditional end cab switcher is getting rare...

 

Except on the Union RR, one of my favorites.

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, July 1, 2022 9:07 PM

BaltACD

 

No idea.  One thing is that Plymouth's heyday was when loaded freight cars were in the 50-60 ton gross weight.  With today's freight cars favoring the gross weight at the 286K, it doesn't take many cars to be way beyond the ability of any thing Plymouth built to be able to hanle.  Secondly, as time passed, 1st Generation diesels, both switchers and road units became plentiful and cheap on the second hand locomotive market and they had abilities far in excess of what Plymouth was building.

 

Don't forget about Trackmobiles and Shuttlewagons.  There are a lot more of them around now than when I started. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 1, 2022 9:49 PM

zugmann
 
BaltACD

No idea.  One thing is that Plymouth's heyday was when loaded freight cars were in the 50-60 ton gross weight.  With today's freight cars favoring the gross weight at the 286K, it doesn't take many cars to be way beyond the ability of any thing Plymouth built to be able to hanle.  Secondly, as time passed, 1st Generation diesels, both switchers and road units became plentiful and cheap on the second hand locomotive market and they had abilities far in excess of what Plymouth was building. 

Don't forget about Trackmobiles and Shuttlewagons.  There are a lot more of them around now than when I started. 

Overlooked them!

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, July 1, 2022 10:02 PM

BaltACD
Overlooked them!

Trackmobile has a hell of a sales team, apparently.  

 

One of our customers did get their little plymouth rebuilt in the past few years by  Plymouth Locomotive Services, if I remember right. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by greyhounds on Saturday, July 2, 2022 2:57 AM

Here's the replacement.  The need hasn't gone away.  But another company is doing the job.  If you stand still and resist innovation, you'll get destroyed.

https://www.republiclocomotive.com/index.html

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Saturday, July 2, 2022 3:44 AM

 

Ohio Locomotive Crane was purchased by IPS Cranes

IPS Cranes

IPS Cranes acquires American & Ohio Locomotive Crane | Trains Magazine

 

 

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Saturday, July 2, 2022 3:55 AM

You may be on to something in terms of weight

"History[edit]

Plymouth locomotives were first built in 1910 by the J. D. Fate Company, which became Fate-Root-Heath in 1919.[2] The J.D. Fate patent application filed in 1917 shows the engine driving a clutch and a continuously variable transmission that allowed varying the speed through zero to reverse the locomotive. The output of the transmission drove a transverse jackshaft through a chain drive, with additional drive chains to the two driving axles.[3] All early Plymouth locomotives used this drive scheme.[4] The Fate-Root-Heath patent application filed in 1925 shows a far more conventional 4-speed transmission and reverse gears driving the jackshaft and final chain drive to the 2 driving axles.[5]

All early Plymouth locomotives were powered by gasoline-burning internal combustion engines, but in 1927 the first diesel was produced. The company changed its name to match its locomotive plant in the late 1950s, becoming Plymouth Locomotive Works, changing again to Plymouth Industries in the late 1970s.

Production[edit]

In 1937, Plymouth constructed prototype short-line railroad locomotives as ran on butane and propane, one of each. Plymouth was one of the world's most prolific builders of small industrial locomotives, with over 7,500 constructed of which 1,700 are believed to still be in active use, some over 50 years old. Almost all Plymouth locomotives were under 25 tons. Some of the first gas-burning locomotives used Chrysler engines. Plymouth produced locomotives in most rail gauges, mostly with mechanical torque converter transmissions."

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:01 AM

BaltACD

 

 
JoeBlow
Plymouth was a major builder of small locomotives for a long time and then it disapeared after it was aquired by Ohio Locomotive Crane. What happened? Did Ohio Locomotive mismanage Plymouth after they aquired it? Was Plymouth already in an irreversable decline before it was aquired? With other mom and pop operations, such as brookeville, why no Plymouth?

 

No idea.  One thing is that Plymouth's heyday was when loaded freight cars were in the 50-60 ton gross weight.  With today's freight cars favoring the gross weight at the 286K, it doesn't take many cars to be way beyond the ability of any thing Plymouth built to be able to hanle.  Secondly, as time passed, 1st Generation diesels, both switchers and road units became plentiful and cheap on the second hand locomotive market and they had abilities far in excess of what Plymouth was building.

 

Plymouth Locomotive Works, J.D. Fate Company, Fate Root Heath Co. never was in the heavy rail locomotive manufacturing business, so it is hardly fair to call them a failure for not keeping up in that market.  From what I know of them, they were highly innovative in their market of smaller industrial locomotives, as well as farm tractors, and a vast array of industrial plant equipment.
 
According to one source,
 
"The Fate Root Heath Company of Plymouth, Ohio was one of the first and largest manufacturers of extrusion machines.  Known for cutting-edge engineering, their diverse line of extruders and other ceramic process equipment continues to serve a variety of industries.  From small laboratory pug mills through large de-airing extruders, FRH equipment remains vital throughout the industry." 
 
Fate Root Heath Company continued until 2001 when they were bought by Starkey Machinery, Inc.
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Posted by roundstick3@gmail.com on Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:29 AM

What happened is the way the realtiobship between railroads and small customers changed.  Bulk products went to Bulkmatic Terminals to be picked up by trucks and customers sidings were cut and incurred huge annual switch maintlance fees

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Posted by Backshop on Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:34 AM

You're missing his point.  What he's saying is that in the olden days, a Plymouth loco could move around 5-6 cars at a time, with the new, heavier cars, it can only move 1-2 cars.  Therefore, they really aren't cost effective today.

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, July 2, 2022 9:12 AM

Backshop

You're missing his point.  What he's saying is that in the olden days, a Plymouth loco could move around 5-6 cars at a time, with the new, heavier cars, it can only move 1-2 cars.  Therefore, they really aren't cost effective today.

I would opine that today's Trackmobile-type car movers are probably a suitable replacement for the Plymouths.  And if you need it out of the way, you just drive it off the tracks.

That such machines still run in many places tends to say that there could still be a market where moving just a few cars is the norm.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, July 2, 2022 10:12 AM

As late as 1972, the US Steel warehouse in Hegewisch had a Trackmobile for moving cars (both loaded and empty) within the plant, usually one at a time.  There are Shuttlewagons currently in service at Barr (CSX) and at Amtrak's coach yard at Chicago Union Station, usually associated with running repairs to cars.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, July 2, 2022 12:33 PM

Backshop

You're missing his point.  What he's saying is that in the olden days, a Plymouth loco could move around 5-6 cars at a time, with the new, heavier cars, it can only move 1-2 cars.  Therefore, they really aren't cost effective today.

 

The point is fine, but what does it have to do with the OP’s question of what happened to Plymouth Locomotive Works?  As far as I know, Plymouth never was marketing locomotives to move standard gage railcars around in the role of a trackmobile.  So why cite that as a drawback?
 
Most (if not all) of their locomotives did have a very functional appearance similar to that of a trackmobile because they were built for private industrial railroads such as tramways for mines and brickyards, most of which were narrow gage, Although they did offer larger switcher locomotives up to standard gage, but mainly targeted toward the standard gage shortline market. 
 
Plymouth and its derived companies were far more diverse in their product offerings than any heavy rail locomotive manufacturer or any trackmobile manufacturer.  They chose their markets and successfully served them. 
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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, July 2, 2022 12:49 PM

Euclid
As far as I know, Plymouth never was marketing locomotives to move standard gage railcars around in the role of a trackmobile.  So why cite that as a drawback?

They didn't market their locomotives to move cars?

Could be why they failed.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by OWTX on Saturday, July 2, 2022 1:01 PM

zugmann
 

Don't forget about Trackmobiles and Shuttlewagons.  There are a lot more of them around now than when I started. 

Being able to put on and off is a time saver when working switching moves. Why buy something in the same tonnage class that can't leave the rails?

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, July 2, 2022 1:02 PM

OWTX
Why buy something in the same tonnage class that can't leave the rails?

 

I mean, they CAN leave the rails.  Not recommended, though. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, July 2, 2022 4:19 PM

Backshop

You're missing his point.  What he's saying is that in the olden days, a Plymouth loco could move around 5-6 cars at a time, with the new, heavier cars, it can only move 1-2 cars.  Therefore, they really aren't cost effective today.

 

They can still move 5 or 6 cars.  At least I see them moving 5 or 6 covered hoppers at a couple of grain elevators to/from the loading spout.

Jeff

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Posted by Euclid on Wednesday, July 6, 2022 11:29 AM
Here is a link to good information on Plymouth Locomotive Works that shows many of their locomotive products going back to the company’s origin in 1909, which began with Plymouth trucks and then Plymouth automobiles.  The Plymouth name was sold to Chrysler in 1928. 
 
This site also shows the largest Plymouth locomotive model CR-8XT, which was 70-120 tons in track gages from 36” to 66”.
 

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