EMD vs GE

[Anonymous]

It appears that most of the people who chat on this site are very passionate in thier like for EMD's and thier dislike for GE's. Give me some real reasons for this preference. I want better reasons than GE's are ugly and Pappy drove an F-unit(please don't theaten my family). Thanks.

[favuprailroadfan]

here is the deal. GE's are junk. No doubt in my mind. Some of the stuff is ok. They are rough riding, takes forever to load, and basically not a good loco. I just want to let you know that you should get alot of replies on this issue. and some of them may not be nice.

LATER, Dru

P.S. EMD RULES

[Anonymous]

One of the most disputed topics on any railfan site. A couple of thoughts.
I don't really pay attention to railfans opinions on any kind of locomotive performance(unless they quote industry info,but many can't differentiate between aesthetic and empirical arguments). The only people who have anything meaningful to say on the topic are actual railroaders. But even among them there is a lot of dispute over which manufacturer makes better engines.
From the industry end of things,EMD has been losing out to GE in recent years due largely to customer service and production capability problems. They also had immense engineering problems with their new generation of prime movers,and seemed to stumble over this far worse than GE(who have also had trouble with the AC6000CW and it's new technology prime mover).
The whole EMD rules,GE stinks thing is somewhat silly. Older railfans blame GE for finishing off Alco(my response-1.overly simplistic argument 2.really it was EMD who wound up with most of Alco's business 3.we call that Free Enterprise).
If you ever read old issues of railroad magazines you'll see a similiar argument,but back then it was "Steam rules,Diesels stink".
Pre Dash 7(some say Dash 8) GE's were vastly inferior to then current EMD products,GE has done a lot to bridge the gap since then.

[Anonymous]

you hit the nail on the head with the statment about rail fans being able to determan what power is better... being an engineer..and running newer emd and ge power...ge is far more superior in my eyes for many reasons... dynmaic brakeing is much better... they are slow loading..but the 70 and 80 macs dont load much faster... and the electral and computer systems are much easy to mu then emds new computer conrtolled power... and last but not least...i have far fewer problems with ge power in line of road... not saying that ge is the greatest thing since sliced bread..but givein the 2 manufactors... ge is better then emd....
if anyone wants examples let me know..ill give you all then examples youll need....

[wabash1]

gary just what is your occupation. couse its plain to see that your not a engineer. from past post and this one you must be a track side lawn chair want to be conductor / engineer. there is no differance in mu engines they work the same. i have mued new ac traction motor 6000hp units with other units dash 8 and 9s sd 70 and 40 and they all work the same.

to answer the question .. its emd they load up and keep you moving a ge wont load till you get to 14 mph then they pull hard. a emd wont let you get that slow. they will start loading and keep you moving. a ge is for someone who cant do train handling so they dont pull them apart all the time. but gary did say one thing right. when they work ge does have good dynamic. now if we could get him to spell. emd will last longer than a ge and emds ride better.

[Anonymous]

ok..sorry..let me refarce the responce here..when dealing with the electical brakers thier is.... when they are shut down..i should have put that in my origanl posting..but it was late... sorry... i have had promlems muing ac emd power due to the brakers that have to be left open and closed to get the computer air brakes to work right..i big reson for this might be the fact that i dont work with emd alot... the power pool where im at are almost always ge.... cw-44-9ac..and the occasonal cw-60-9acs ... and when i go get to play with emd power..its 70macs or older junk... the older junk is easy to mu... dont have to deal with the computers... but to get back to the point i was makeing.. with the ges..just cuple up...cut your air hoses in.. cut out the air brakes on the computer screens...and open any brakers that dont have a cover over them... and pull the battery knife switch.. ge unit is mued...or if its not being shut down.. leave the brakers closed and rock and role... anyways...it all comes down to the throttle jockey for them to deside what they like better... im ge... and to me honest....i think you and i have had this battle befor... so..in the intrest of friendship among rail roaders...lets let this one die between us...
and yes i am an engineer...
and yes i know i cant spell..but i dont care!

[BRAKIE]

Now,I am talking model T here,I have always prefered to work,as a brakeman,with EMDs more then any other make.These units would take you and bring you home with out the known problems with ALCOs,FMs,and Baldwins.The GP7/9 would lugg their heart out and get the job done..The early GEs was not that much better then ALCOs in reliability.Still,most often then not they would take you and bring you home.

[wabash1]

i dont want a war between engineers either but im still confused to your statement and if im confused what would others be. first is you say you pull the battery knife switch on mu engines if the engine is used for power why would you do that. ive always got on and during my inspection and doing the reports always check the status of the brakes hoping that they are in trail behind the lead unit. if picking up power its just as easy as you say hook up hoses and jumper cable and go. i do like the older ge models they load faster and are pretty good engines but as a thru freight hogger i rather have a emd. in past post you talk about being a coal digger thats what i stay away from. no excitement. anyways just my 2 cents worth.

[Anonymous]

For those of us who manufacture Locomotives:
I wouldn't say GE's 6000 adventure has been any more sucessful than EMD. Both builders have had there fair share of problems with prime movers and systems on the locomotive. As far as the DC race recently, GE dash 9's cannot keep up with the availability of the EMD SD70M's. 95 to 96 %
Tough to beat....

[Anonymous]

wabash
I should send you an EMD hat! I need to come ride with you and get some real perspective.

[Anonymous]

Hello CSXENGINEER1...I'm glad to see you've survived all of the 'bufoonery' of your system of late...run-away's, head-ons, and assorted rear-ender's. However, my BNSF is starting to catch up to your outfit a bit, unfortunately. I'm currently a 'Hostler Pilot/Utility in Seattle...running 'light-pwr' in and around the Seattle Terminal. When we have a chance to zip it up to the 8th notch with the Dash-9's, or the EMD 70 or 80's, there is no comparison. The 9's are total junk. The dynamic's are'nt anything to write home about either! The computers on the 9's also are overheating occassionally due to the air-conditioning set up for the computers. And here I thought they were for me! Did you know that is one of the many reasons that the UP went back to the old style 'consoles' on their unit's? Older style 'cut-in/cut-out, end changing etc? Let's face it, EMD's whether light, or pulling the actual train are far and away tops over the 4 strokers. I remember the Alco's, and like you, I'm hopeing they are onething that never comes back!...Take Care, and be safe...Hommie

[wabash1]

well if you have several hours to kill come on all they seam to give us lately is those dash 9s to run and it takes all day to get there. i sure would like to see a emd consist show up even those sd 40s . and have fun running again.

[Anonymous]

Please explain MU. You are a true reble picking GE....I don't know if your right .... but I like it.

[Anonymous]

Hello ronald1...MU refers to the 'multiple-unit' connections between the units that require the coupling up of the multiple air hoses you see between the said units. These air hoses help the continuty of air-brake, train line air, main resevoir (excuse the spelling), independent-air, and sanding capabilities. When multiple consists are running together 'light', it is possible to get the job done with just the 'brake-pipe' hose connected, though this practice is strongly discourged...take care...Hommie

[Anonymous]

Ok LocoBuilder, answer me this. What happened to the SD75's? They certainly have not enjoyed the availability rate of the 70's. To me the 75 is more compairable to the DASH 9's. So again, what happened to the 75's, the true competition to the DASH 9's?

[Anonymous]

Dan
SD75's are EUI(electronic unit injection) locomotives, whereas the majority of the SD70M's are MUI (mechanical unit injection) locomotives. EMDEC units from that time did not fair to well initially. Getting better though. When you look at percentages, there are really not too many of them out there. BNSF and ONT Northland RR only. I would put the 70M against the Dash-9. SD75 is pushing the envelope of the 710 engine running at 950 rpm as well....Why do you say "true competition"?

[Anonymous]

Don
Please talk to someone at coporate headquarters and do something about your crappy web site. Look at GE's site for an example. The guys at this forum obviosly wi***o replace thier GE screen saver with one from EMD! Maybe you can even showcase some older models. Try GE's site; you'll like it. By the way, I enjoy your imput.

[Anonymous]

Hi Don, you forgot to mention CN having a bunch of SD75's. As for "true competition" I was refering to the fact that the DASH 9 is too at the extream of the envelope with its prime mover and that the HP of the 75 and the DASH 9 are closer although probably not the TE. Interesting to note that GE gives the 70M a pretty good review on their web site. Also, I am an EMD fan clear to the bone (love the SD60's) but I like all locomotives and am always wanting to learn more.

[Anonymous]

hey, I agree with you their. The website has changed somewhat though compared to what it used to be.

[Anonymous]

Dan
That is correct CN placed orders for SD75's as well. Some are now going into the shop for their first mini-overhaul. I am going to check out GE's website. Bring on the questions too. I will try and answer.

[Anonymous]

I was looking at a picture of a GE AC6000CW and noticed that the two turbocharger exhausts were staggered, not right next to each other but corner to corner. Most pictures I have seen of the 6000 showed the exhaust stacks right next to each other, side to side. I was wondering if this was a "fix" or something? The picture was of a CSX locomotive. I have seen several more pics showing the staggered stacks, all CSX.

[Anonymous]

Dan
where can I find a picture of one????

Don

[Anonymous]

Hooking up and mu-ing locos are the same whether emd or ge!!! Don't understand what some others have said in this forum.Cutting the brakes out on a emd is the same as in a ge just hit the right keys on the computer a wah-lah the brakes are cut out,or in a older unit cut out or in the mu2a and automatic brake depending if it is the lead or trailing.As far as mu-ing the hoses all you have to do is mu the right hoses and not cross them.Main res to main res,independent application and release to ind. ap&rel and equalizing res.to equl.res.Simple even a first day new hiree can master these simple tasks.What were finding out on the newer dash-9s is that more and more of them are not putting out their full load potential.70-80 % when they should always put out 100%.Easy to see on the computer.In other words the GE's are not aging well. Don't even ask me what I think of the older dash-8s the biggest pieces of junk ever to ride the rails.Would rather have a U-30-C then those.The main difference between a GE and a EMD is a four stroke engine for the former and a two stroke for the later.When EMD goes to the four stroke they will be no better than a GE.Give me a set of sd-40s any time,even with the older cabs.

[Anonymous]

Don, I was afraid you would ask that. I copied two pics from the monthly postings from Failfan.net. They were from this year and I think maybe only a couple of months old. Not much help, sorry.