Trains.com

Class One Rails blame shippers, receivers and truckers

10993 views
176 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,551 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, August 21, 2021 1:00 PM

This is not exclusively the fault of the railroads.  But it appears (and amplified in spades on here) they have the attitude of blaming everyone else for the failures,  including customers.  Really inept but a great way to lose those customers in the future. 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,836 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, August 21, 2021 2:18 PM

Yes just another blame everyone else.  Instead why not try to offer them help in solving the problems.  Any solutions will take effort from all affected persons.   It may be that increasing storage fees temporarily might help.  Attracting more dray drivers by paying more.  Incraeasing wharehouse thruput.  ETC.

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Antioch, IL
  • 4,369 posts
Posted by greyhounds on Saturday, August 21, 2021 2:39 PM

blue streak 1
Yes just another blame everyone else.  Instead why not try to offer them help in solving the problems.  Any solutions will take effort from all affected persons.   It may be that increasing storage fees temporarily might help.  Attracting more dray drivers by paying more.  Incraeasing wharehouse thruput.  ETC.

They're doing what they can.  UP has reopened Global 3 in Rochelle, IL to add storage space.  BNSF has increased storage space at its Elwood, IL terminal by taking tracks out of service and using them to store containers.

The railroads don't control warehouse thruput, nor do they control drayage driver pay.

Supply chains all over the world are disrupted.  The railroads don't have a magic wand to fix it.

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,793 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Saturday, August 21, 2021 2:53 PM

blue streak 1

Yes just another blame everyone else.  Instead why not try to offer them help in solving the problems.  Any solutions will take effort from all affected persons.   It may be that increasing storage fees temporarily might help.  Attracting more dray drivers by paying more.  Incraeasing wharehouse thruput.  ETC.

 

That's where the money is. Lot's of finger pointing and blaming..and lots of money being made by people who can help their customers..

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,955 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, August 21, 2021 3:22 PM

greyhounds
 
blue streak 1
Yes just another blame everyone else.  Instead why not try to offer them help in solving the problems.  Any solutions will take effort from all affected persons.   It may be that increasing storage fees temporarily might help.  Attracting more dray drivers by paying more.  Incraeasing wharehouse thruput.  ETC. 

They're doing what they can.  UP has reopened Global 3 in Rochelle, IL to add storage space.  BNSF has increased storage space at its Elwood, IL terminal by taking tracks out of service and using them to store containers.

The railroads don't control warehouse thruput, nor do they control drayage driver pay.

Supply chains all over the world are disrupted.  The railroads don't have a magic wand to fix it.

Everybody in the Supply Chain has had a hand in its breakdown. Manufacturers, Shippers, Container operators, Port Terminal Operations, Drayage Firms, Railroads, OTR Trucking, Consignees.  Everybody has some level of failure - NOBODY has clean hands. 

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • 2,741 posts
Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Saturday, August 21, 2021 6:51 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Convicted One
I still stand behind my earlier assertion,  If there is a logistics problem, then you (UP or BNSF) are the logistics experts, so solve it. Don't come wimpering to me, expecting a comfortable shoulder to cry on.  Find a solution!!

 

When you as a 'customer' are not upholding YOUR end of the transportation contract YOU become the problem, not the carriers.  It is your obligation to get the boxes consigned to you off the carriers property - it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them.

 

BaltACD

 

 
greyhounds
 
blue streak 1
Yes just another blame everyone else.  Instead why not try to offer them help in solving the problems.  Any solutions will take effort from all affected persons.   It may be that increasing storage fees temporarily might help.  Attracting more dray drivers by paying more.  Incraeasing wharehouse thruput.  ETC. 

They're doing what they can.  UP has reopened Global 3 in Rochelle, IL to add storage space.  BNSF has increased storage space at its Elwood, IL terminal by taking tracks out of service and using them to store containers.

The railroads don't control warehouse thruput, nor do they control drayage driver pay.

Supply chains all over the world are disrupted.  The railroads don't have a magic wand to fix it.

 

Everybody in the Supply Chain has had a hand in its breakdown. Manufacturers, Shippers, Container operators, Port Terminal Operations, Drayage Firms, Railroads, OTR Trucking, Consignees.  Everybody has some level of failure - NOBODY has clean hands. 

 

I am confused by the contradiction between the statement "It is your obligation to get the boxes consigned to you off the carriers property - it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them" with "Railroads, OTR Trucking, Consignees.  Everybody has some level of failure - NOBODY has clean hands."

Didn't you first claim that the railroads indeed have "clean hands" inasmuch as that it is unreasonable to blame them when customers don't pick up their containers from railroad intermodal yards? 

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,955 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, August 21, 2021 7:03 PM

Paul Milenkovic
 I am confused by the contradiction between the statement "It is your obligation to get the boxes consigned to you off the carriers property - it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them" with "Railroads, OTR Trucking, Consignees.  Everybody has some level of failure - NOBODY has clean hands."

Didn't you first claim that the railroads indeed have "clean hands" inasmuch as that it is unreasonable to blame them when customers don't pick up their containers from railroad intermodal yards? 

Never stated the RR's had clean hands - EVERYBODY in the chain has dirty hands of varying degrees for various reasons.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • 2,741 posts
Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Saturday, August 21, 2021 7:23 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Paul Milenkovic
 I am confused by the contradiction between the statement "It is your obligation to get the boxes consigned to you off the carriers property - it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them" with "Railroads, OTR Trucking, Consignees.  Everybody has some level of failure - NOBODY has clean hands."

Didn't you first claim that the railroads indeed have "clean hands" inasmuch as that it is unreasonable to blame them when customers don't pick up their containers from railroad intermodal yards? 

 

Never stated the RR's had clean hands - EVERYBODY in the chain has dirty hands of varying degrees for various reasons.

 

What part of "it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them" is not claiming that the RR's indeed have "clean hands" in that they are doing everything reasonable and expected of them at their intermodal terminals?

If boxes are backing up at the RR intermodal terminal because the RR is not delivering the boxes to the intermodal terminal in a timely matter because whatever reason -- PSR, short staffing, whatever -- then it would be reasonable for the RR's to be expected to either store the boxes on their property or "un-PSR" their operations so there is a steady flow of rail shipments to the terminal for their customers to dray off the RR property.

A number of commenters on this site are saying "don't blame the RR's, it is not their job to store boxes on their property if their customers don't pick them up."  The statement "it is your obligation to get boxes . . .off the carrier's property" isn't agreeing with those other commenters?

 

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, August 21, 2021 7:32 PM

What do you suppose is the chance that at least a portion of the chassis shortage that  everyone is fretting about is due to them being deployed in rubber tired detour service transporting  containers  inland, by customers taking matters into their own hands and deciding to  circumvent the vaporlocked railroads?

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,828 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, August 21, 2021 8:02 PM

Convicted One

The amount of empty shelves I'm seeing at  retailers is sadly amusing.  And not just on a spot basis, I'm talking about products that have been sold out for weeks on end, with stores you would expect to be on top of their game (Walmart, Target, etc).

I was just in a Dollar General, and it was  astounding the entire swaths of shelf space sitting empty. Sure made me think of this thread.  So, I asked the manager if she had any insight, and she just replied that they haven't "seen a truck" in two weeks.

Could this ordeal possibly have a silver lining for competing products sourced on this continent? 

 

Some of the products that I've looked for that are either out of stock or in short supply are made here in the US.  I think some brands are concentrating only on their best selling items, temporarily discontinuing what they perceive as lesser items.

Jeff

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • 1,435 posts
Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Saturday, August 21, 2021 10:01 PM

There has been some retooling in that only certain items that were high volume sellers were kept in production during the height of the pandemic.  Especially in things like toilet paper or paper towels.  Those items had the variety of things cut by 30 percent.  

Certain meat cuts also have been hard to come by due to labor shortage in the meat processing system.  As for the rest there's a raw material shortage as some supplies only come from certain parts of the world and without trade it is hard to get needed items in to make things.  

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,836 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, August 22, 2021 12:15 AM

My  point was that everyone needs to get together to increase thru put.  IMO supplies are going to suffer for a long time world wide.  It may be some of the labor shortage comes from USA businesses trying to return supplies closer to home.  Another is the demand mix is different.

An example:  Friend has a fasirly large business that had a very good relationship with suppliers.  The distributor for toilet paper was over stocked with commercial paper that no one wanted.  Supplier was Desperate to clear inventory.  My friend had space to purchase enough that he still has not worked off all the extra.  - Now home toilet  paper that comes off different lines is often still in short availability. One week my store has plenty next week empty.   Also same for paper towels.  No  relationship between the two.

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • 2,554 posts
Posted by Backshop on Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:18 AM

Convicted One

What do you suppose is the chance that at least a portion of the chassis shortage that  everyone is fretting about is due to them being deployed in rubber tired detour service transporting  containers  inland, by customers taking matters into their own hands and deciding to  circumvent the vaporlocked railroads?

 

Maybe a small part.  IM chassis are normally spec'd very cheaply and aren't used for long hauls.  At least, that's the way it was 25 years ago.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, August 22, 2021 10:43 AM

Backshop
Maybe a small part.  IM chassis are normally spec'd very cheaply and aren't used for long hauls.

Well, I'm not proposing to have all the answers, I'm just saying that when left with no better alternative,  creative minds tend to adapt.

Rather than allow a stubborn class 1 to shut me down, empty warehouse space is not hard to find. I might rent temporary space In some half way location like Denver (etc) and break down the containers there, rather than Chicago.   And if that works well enough, consider repeating the proceedure (as I mentioned earlier, if forced to find my own solution, I might find alternatives more to my liking than the status quo)

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, August 22, 2021 11:04 AM

jeffhergert
think some brands are concentrating only on their best selling items, temporarily discontinuing what they perceive as lesser items.

Yes, I'm confident that you are correct about that. I supect that to be the case with several of the items I'm finding in chronic short supply.  (single serving sized processed foods, just for one example)

But I suspect the off-shore parking lot to be to blame for many others.

And then there are all those insubordinate unemployed, hedonistically  reveling in their lavish, subsidized unemployment  benefits.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,567 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, August 22, 2021 11:14 AM

Convicted One

 

 
jeffhergert
think some brands are concentrating only on their best selling items, temporarily discontinuing what they perceive as lesser items.

 

Yes, I'm confident that you are correct about that. I supect that to be the case with several of the items I'm finding in chronic short supply.  (single serving sized processed foods, just for one example)

But I suspect the off-shore parking lot to be to blame for many others.

And then there are all those insubordinate unemployed, hedonistically  reveling in their lavish, subsidized unemployment  benefits.

 

This goes way beyond railroads.

For example, if you want to buy shingles, the major manufactureres are so far behind that they've cut their offerings to their 4 or 5 most popular colors in their major line. If you want something else, you can place your order, but it won't get made until they catch up.

Another example is interior panel doors. A large amount are made in Malaysia which has been shut down by covid for about 7 weeks. Supply is expected to go from very spotty to nonexistent shortly. Once they start shipping and producing again, then they have to deal with the ships and railroads...


Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,955 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, August 22, 2021 11:43 AM

Convicted One
...

And then there are all those insubordinate unemployed, hedonistically  reveling in their lavish, subsidized unemployment  benefits.

If the unemployed have it so good - maybe you should quit your job and join them and grain status.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,378 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, August 22, 2021 12:13 PM

BaltACD
Convicted One

And then there are all those insubordinate unemployed, hedonistically  reveling in their lavish, subsidized unemployment  benefits.

If the unemployed have it so good - maybe you should quit your job and join them and grain status.

Whooooosh!

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • 2,554 posts
Posted by Backshop on Sunday, August 22, 2021 12:14 PM

Is it just me or does it seem like teenagers don't work anymore?  All the entry level jobs in fast food, etc., are being performed by "retired" people.  That's not right.  You build many lifelong job skills in your first job.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, August 22, 2021 12:59 PM

BaltACD
maybe you should quit your job and join them and grain status.

I've been enjoying retirement now for 20 months (double "woosh" Pirate

I was just satirizing the laments of a certain group that includes our  govenor,  who insist  that those "hedonists" I describe are a paramount threat to the Republic

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, August 22, 2021 1:07 PM

Murphy Siding
if you want to buy shingles, the major manufactureres are so far behind that they've cut their offerings to their 4 or 5 most popular colors in their major line. If you want something else, you can place your order, but it won't get made until they catch up.

I didn't  care for them much when I first started noticing them 10-12 years ago. But lately I've found those metal roofing systems quite attractive.  Thanks for adding a practical dimension. Cool

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,567 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, August 22, 2021 2:55 PM

Convicted One

 

 
Murphy Siding
if you want to buy shingles, the major manufactureres are so far behind that they've cut their offerings to their 4 or 5 most popular colors in their major line. If you want something else, you can place your order, but it won't get made until they catch up.

 

I didn't  care for them much when I first started noticing them 10-12 years ago. But lately I've found those metal roofing systems quite attractive.  Thanks for adding a practical dimension. Cool

 

You're welcome. Just be aware that with the "unprecedented blah blah blah" going on right now, the popular colors are all backordered, the lead times are unknown and the material is priced time of shipping. Devil

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • From: Valparaiso, In
  • 5,918 posts
Posted by MP173 on Sunday, August 22, 2021 4:05 PM

"Wanna get away?"  

Sounds like it would be a great idea!...except that airline (Southwest) has huge issues.  Not enough employees, high demand for service, and very disgrunted employees.  Oh, they are not alone...other airlines have cancelled flights also.

Hmm, probably the fault of the railroads!  If they would just run a few more passenger trains this problem would go away!  Or not.

We are in a mess and it is going to be this way for quite awhile.  Planning needs to be based on months not days, regardless of what you are doing.

Guess what, here comes the next round of COVID.  Lots of personal freedom and liberty about vacinations and masks...oops we didnt quite get that right.  

My employer's biggest supplier (a Fortune 50 giant) has indicated it will be getting worse and anticipating lengthed supply chains and ongoing shortage of materials and the product they are providing has a high rejection rate.

Hang in there, stay calm, manage what you can.

Ed

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,955 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:23 PM

MP173
"Wanna get away?"  

Sounds like it would be a great idea!...except that airline (Southwest) has huge issues.  Not enough employees, high demand for service, and very disgrunted employees.  Oh, they are not alone...other airlines have cancelled flights also.

Hmm, probably the fault of the railroads!  If they would just run a few more passenger trains this problem would go away!  Or not.

We are in a mess and it is going to be this way for quite awhile.  Planning needs to be based on months not days, regardless of what you are doing.

Guess what, here comes the next round of COVID.  Lots of personal freedom and liberty about vacinations and masks...oops we didnt quite get that right.  

My employer's biggest supplier (a Fortune 50 giant) has indicated it will be getting worse and anticipating lengthed supply chains and ongoing shortage of materials and the product they are providing has a high rejection rate.

Hang in there, stay calm, manage what you can.

Ed

We tend to forget and overlook that most all industries and other forms of employment that just a little over a year ago all those organization pared their their employment to the barest of bones - putting hundreds of thousands if not millions of employees on the unemployment rolls.

Then when it can time to recall the employees - Surprise Surprise - employees didn't want to return to the menial low paid positions that they had previously held - they found they could obtain higher paid positions elsewhere and not return to their old jobs.

My experience in the 21st Century that a employer is luck if they can get 20% of the work force they furloughed to return when they issue a recall.  They also find out that all those jobs they thought didn't require any skills or training to perform effectivelly - do infact require skills and training, thus the 'body' that is hired has to undergo a period of training before they and become a productive employee. 

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 2,515 posts
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Sunday, August 22, 2021 8:19 PM

Convicted One
But lately I've found those metal roofing systems quite attractive.  Thanks for adding a practical dimension. 

What happens when they start to rust?

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,836 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, August 22, 2021 8:54 PM

Electroliner 1935
Convicted One
But lately I've found those metal roofing systems quite attractive.  Thanks for adding a practical dimension. 
 

 
Ask me in 75 -  80 years or if very  dry locations maybe 150  years.  Their fire ratings would make them more desireable in drought locations.  Ground them and makes good lightning protection !
BTW---  New stainless steel neopreme washer screws extend life.  Very easy installation except slippery as heck.  Definitely need fall protection just to screw steel down.
More durable than clay tile roofs !
No horizontal seems just overlapping vertical seems !
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,836 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, August 22, 2021 9:48 PM

More supply chain problems.  Orlando is running short of liquid oxygen for the hospitals .  It also uses liquid o2 for water treatmet .  Orlando utilities requesting residents to cut back on water useage.  Probably for at less several weeks.

Orlando residents urged to cut back on water use amid shortage of liquid oxygen as Covid increases in Florida - LOVEBYLIFE

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,836 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, August 22, 2021 9:51 PM

More supply chain problems.  Orlando is running short of liquid oxygen for the hospitals .  It also uses liquid o2 for water treatmet .  Orlando utilities requesting residents to cut back on water useage.  Probably for at least several weeks.

Orlando residents urged to cut back on water use amid shortage of liquid oxygen as Covid increases in Florida - LOVEBYLIFE

Orlando Residents Asked to Limit Water Usage as Virus Surges - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,567 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, August 22, 2021 11:04 PM

Electroliner 1935



 

 
Convicted One
But lately I've found those metal roofing systems quite attractive.  Thanks for adding a practical dimension. 

 

What happens when they start to rust?

 

  To paraphrase an old TV commercial: You've come a long way baby! Advances in the metal coatings produce long lasting steel roofing. I've sold the stuff for about 40 years. I can only think of one instance where there was a problem with rust, and that issue had to do with installation, not product.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, August 22, 2021 11:22 PM

Electroliner 1935
What happens when they start to rust?

Blame it on your customers, like everything else. Clown

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy