Sounds about right. The BNSF may be going to charge storage fees if consignees do not pick up their loads. Driver shortage may be a significant part of the issue.
Photos of the yards confirms that BNSF took two tracks out of servoice just to store the loads they have received. Don't have info about other RR's.
charlie hebdohttps://www.freightwaves.com/news/us-class-i-railroads-to-feds-dont-blame-us Claim container mess is not rails fault.
Claim container mess is not rails fault.
The traditional circular finger pointing at all the other elements of the supply chain. The reality is that all those pointing fingers are right - everybody is responsible and nobody has clean hands.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Volumes seem to be dropping off now.. that should help free up some capacity.
UlrichVolumes seem to be dropping off now.. that should help free up some capacity.
Better lay off some people!
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann Ulrich Volumes seem to be dropping off now.. that should help free up some capacity. Better lay off some people!
Ulrich Volumes seem to be dropping off now.. that should help free up some capacity.
No.. much better to take on secondary business if needed..
BaltACD charlie hebdo https://www.freightwaves.com/news/us-class-i-railroads-to-feds-dont-blame-us Claim container mess is not rails fault. The traditional circular finger pointing at all the other elements of the supply chain. The reality is that all those pointing fingers are right - everybody is responsible and nobody has clean hands.
charlie hebdo https://www.freightwaves.com/news/us-class-i-railroads-to-feds-dont-blame-us Claim container mess is not rails fault.
Exactly!!! Vendors in Asia have been stop and start since Covid broke out last year. Inventories in the US were depleted as everyone sitting at home ordered on line. Container shipping companies found themselves with too many shipments and started rolling cargo. Add in a shortage of ocean containers. Ships arriving on US west coast can't unload. Railroads can't handle all the containers and initially don't want to reposition empty equipment. Containers arrive rail terminals in the Midwest and customer can't take them immediately because of a trucker shortage and, possibly, because shipments have become "bunched" and are arriving in greater volume than he or she can handle.
Balt is spot on; this is a supply chain cluster and no ones hands are clean.
CW
It's almost as if no one has ever seen a pandemic before.. most are dealing with its repercussions for the first time with no play book to follow. Lots of moving parts. No clean hands implies we are all caught of guard.. I guess so.
UlrichIt's almost as if no one has ever seen a pandemic before.. most are dealing with its repercussions for the first time with no play book to follow. Lots of moving parts. No clean hands implies we are all caught of guard.. I guess so.
They followed the playbook. It simply said "run as lean as operation as possible with no slack for any eventuality."
Shortage of truck drivers: I'm glad the railroads aren't making the same mistakes the trucking industr....... hmmmmm.
zugmann Ulrich It's almost as if no one has ever seen a pandemic before.. most are dealing with its repercussions for the first time with no play book to follow. Lots of moving parts. No clean hands implies we are all caught of guard.. I guess so. They followed the playbook. It simply said "run as lean as operation as possible with no slack for any eventuality." Shortage of truck drivers: I'm glad the railroads aren't making the same mistakes the trucking industr....... hmmmmm.
Ulrich It's almost as if no one has ever seen a pandemic before.. most are dealing with its repercussions for the first time with no play book to follow. Lots of moving parts. No clean hands implies we are all caught of guard.. I guess so.
Thank rampant consumerism for that.. we all want low prices at the store. That's really where it all starts. Heaven fordid we all live in smaller homes with less stuff.
UlrichThank rampant consumerism for that.. we all want low prices at the store. That's really where it all starts. Heaven fordid we all live in smaller homes with less stuff.
I don't buy it. Sorry.
Nonetheless consumers call the shots.. at least the inital salvo. Its why those scarce hard to find drivers haul trees from Oregon to Ontario and Quebec in December..superfluous transportation demand brought to you by Joe and Jane Consumer.
Even without the stupid short term panic, they'd still be short.
I don’t think any part of the supply chain is to blame. Our Country shut down for a year and then opened back up (maybe), and so we have a surge of imports to make up for what was suppressed during the shutdown. So the surge overwhelms the supply chain. The supply chain cannot be built with enough over-capacity to handle such a large surge. It would not be cost effective to build in such large and normally unnecessary over-capacity. Shutting down the Country was a radical move, and so it produced a radical result. This is probably just the first chapter of that result.
Euclid I don’t think any part of the supply chain is to blame. Our Country shut down for a year and then opened back up (maybe), and so we have a surge of imports to make up for what was suppressed during the shutdown. So the surge overwhelms the supply chain. The supply chain cannot be built with enough over-capacity to handle such a large surge. It would not be cost effective to build in such large and normally unnecessary over-capacity. Shutting down the Country was a radical move, and so it produced a radical result. This is probably just the first chapter of that result.
That's pretty much it..
In transportation you can't cut your way to growth.
BaltACD In transportation you can't cut your way to growth.
True, but these days there's less room than ever for underutilized capacity that is held in reserve for a rainy pandemic. We all want our pots and pans from China at low low prices..pandemic or not.
Ulrich BaltACD In transportation you can't cut your way to growth. True, but these days there's less room than ever for underutilized capacity that is held in reserve for a rainy pandemic. We all want our pots and pans from China at low low prices..pandemic or not.
So railroads implement PSR and cut the workforce, motive power and equipment being operated.
BaltACD Ulrich BaltACD In transportation you can't cut your way to growth. True, but these days there's less room than ever for underutilized capacity that is held in reserve for a rainy pandemic. We all want our pots and pans from China at low low prices..pandemic or not. So railroads implement PSR and cut the workforce, motive power and equipment being operated.
They're simply adjusting their operations to the dollar store clientele they service. And the dollar stores themselves are trying keep up with home delivery and uber guys who live on straight commissions and no benefits.
As Ulrich noted earlier, all of us bear some responsibility because we expect lower prices. This is at least somewhat to blame for our increasing reliance on Asia as our primary sourcing point over the past decade. What I think carries more responsibility however, is companies looking to reduce costs more from the perspective of improving earnings than providing lower prices.
Too many companies who should have known better decided that "global economy" meant producing for next to nothing over "there" and selling it all "here". Overseas production and ocean freight costs were cheap for so long that companies forgot to hedge their bets and have contingency plans available. Over reliance on computer algorithms for planning and a lack of common sense and institutional knowledge throughout companies and especially at the senior management levels are, in combination with the pandemic, what has brought us to this point.I'm reading quite a bit of late where companies are taking another look at their sourcing and supply chain but, only time will tell if all this "looking" translates into decisions to bring production and sourcing back to North America - at least to some degree. I have my doubts.
Juniata ManWhat I think carries more responsibility however, is companies looking to reduce costs more from the perspective of improving earnings than providing lower prices.
I would like products that last more than 6 months. I'm sure I'm far from being the only one.
zugmann Juniata Man What I think carries more responsibility however, is companies looking to reduce costs more from the perspective of improving earnings than providing lower prices. I would like products that last more than 6 months. I'm sure I'm far from being the only one.
Juniata Man What I think carries more responsibility however, is companies looking to reduce costs more from the perspective of improving earnings than providing lower prices.
Well, I have some good news for you.. some fridges out there now will last up to three years before a major repair comes along.
UlrichWell, I have some good news for you.. some fridges out there now will last up to three years before a major repair comes along.
I'll hang on to my 15+ year old one for now.
zugmann Ulrich Well, I have some good news for you.. some fridges out there now will last up to three years before a major repair comes along. I'll hang on to my 15+ year old one for now.
Ulrich Well, I have some good news for you.. some fridges out there now will last up to three years before a major repair comes along.
I would too.. my parents got rid of their 1967 fridge in 2009.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Keeping an eye on a 20+ year old unit here (With much older freezer in the garage) ... wondering who will have the more reliable unit when it does go. (probably the one least impacted by beancounters and industrial engineers not living in the real world)
Juniata ManAs Ulrich noted earlier, all of us bear some responsibility because we expect lower prices. This is at least somewhat to blame for our increasing reliance on Asia as our primary sourcing point over the past decade.
Keep in mind a lot of us never got the choice to begin with.
When Chinese made products began showing up here I was VERY uneasy about the whole situation, just as I would have been uneasy about products showing up from Nazi Germany if I lived in the 1930's. I couldn't see the reason for sending money to a Communist dictatorship, for whatever reason, so I avoided buying Chinese made products for as long as I could, and then there was no avoiding it at all. After a while I (like many others) rationalized the situation and thought "Well, if you want them to stop being Commies the best way to do it is to turn them into capitalists. Making money is a lot more fun and rewarding than wearing cheap denim suits and screaming your head off waving copies of Mao's Little Red Book!"
Turns out my initial unease was justified. As the old saying goes:
"You can't teach an old dog new tricks, or get a leopard to change it's spots."
What have the "wise heads" done to us?
When our major appliances were getting over 20 years of age, my wife wanted to replace them. I held off until they were actually dying because I was afraid that the replacements wouldn't last as long as the original if we had kept them.
I can't always buy American but I try not to buy Chinese. I'll take Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese or Filippino before Chinese. It's funny. I'm on a hunting/fishing/gun website that's mostly conservative. They talk about the pols kissing Chinese behind, yet they badmouth American products like Leupold and Trijicon while buying brands made in China. They don't even see the irony of it.
Ulrich zugmann Juniata Man What I think carries more responsibility however, is companies looking to reduce costs more from the perspective of improving earnings than providing lower prices. I would like products that last more than 6 months. I'm sure I'm far from being the only one. Well, I have some good news for you.. some fridges out there now will last up to three years before a major repair comes along.
I still have the refrigerator that was in the house when I bought it in 1990. From it, and the rest of the kitchen appliances with their 1960's-70's colors the frig might be from the late 60's. While it is a manual defrost and has a minuscule freezer compartment - it just keeps on keeping on.
I bought my Condo in Jacksonville in 1998 and have had to put three different refrigerators in it since then.
Flintlock76When Chinese made products began showing up here I was VERY uneasy about the whole situation,
I'm with you,..but I don't think my thought process advanced to the point of politics. I just didn't like the shoddy quality.
I've always been more prone to buying quality up front, treating it with care, and using it for 40 years, as opposed to buying the same junk replacements every few years. I believe it was the 1990s where junk seemed to overwhelm their quality counterparts on many store shelves. And I really hated it.
My '65 Sears refrigerator in the basement was still working when I sold my house last year. Ice maker didn't work and had replaced defrost timer. Fifty years old. Otherwise, it didn't owe me a dime.
My '65 Sears refrigerator in the basement was still working when I sold my house last year. Ice maker didn't work and had replaced defrost timer. Otherwise, it didn't owe me a dime.
Intermodal Ramps have a designed throughput capacity. Once in gating of boxes exceeds the flow of out gated boxes capacity drys up. IM ramps are not designed for long term storage.
Also the ever so exciting chassis problem. Lack of mechanics has stressed the chassis supply at the moment. Most of the RR's don't have their own chassis pools. Typically a chassis pool such as Flexi-Van or Direct Chassis Link handle non assest Intermodal Marketing Companies. JB Hunt and Schneider lacks these issues as they are what's called assest based providers. Which brings their own chassis to flip boxes.
However a problem the RR's need to fix is repositioning of boxes in their terminals which can require multiple moves. Segregation between boxes; loads, empties, priority, and freetime would create more capacity in terminals.
Current labor issues are the real capacity eater. Until the gov't cuts off handouts. I don't expect the situation to change..
Murphy Siding zugmann Ulrich Volumes seem to be dropping off now.. that should help free up some capacity. Better lay off some people! It's the American way. "Gentlemen- we've had a record year. To celebrate, let's fire some people".
It's the American way. "Gentlemen- we've had a record year. To celebrate, let's fire some people".
Everyone around here is hiring..
UlrichEveryone around here is hiring..
Same here. They just don't want to pay, or treat their employees like people.
zugmann Ulrich Everyone around here is hiring.. Same here. They just don't want to pay, or treat their employees like people.
Ulrich Everyone around here is hiring..
True of some and not for others.
Ulrich Murphy Siding zugmann Ulrich Volumes seem to be dropping off now.. that should help free up some capacity. Better lay off some people! It's the American way. "Gentlemen- we've had a record year. To celebrate, let's fire some people". Everyone around here is hiring..
Ulrich zugmann Ulrich Well, I have some good news for you.. some fridges out there now will last up to three years before a major repair comes along. I'll hang on to my 15+ year old one for now. I would too.. my parents got rid of their 1967 fridge in 2009.
When she passed away in 1973, my grandmother's 1939 GE refrigerator and 1946 International Harvester freezer were still going strong. My cousin, who bought the house from my grandmother's estate, used both of them for several years afterward. When present-day appliances beat those records, I'll be impressed.
When it comes to needing washer/dryer, check out Speed Queen. Still made in Ripon, Wisconsin and built to last. Even have models that are light on the electronic controls. Work well.
Gramp When it comes to needing washer/dryer, check out Speed Queen. Still made in Ripon, Wisconsin and built to last. Even have models that are light on the electronic controls. Work well.
More repair prone, chew up fabric and more expensive.
Harvest Gold, Avocado Green, Burnt Orange or (fortunately no descriptor) Brown?
Rick
rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.
Flintlock76 Juniata Man As Ulrich noted earlier, all of us bear some responsibility because we expect lower prices. This is at least somewhat to blame for our increasing reliance on Asia as our primary sourcing point over the past decade. Keep in mind a lot of us never got the choice to begin with. When Chinese made products began showing up here I was VERY uneasy about the whole situation, just as I would have been uneasy about products showing up from Nazi Germany if I lived in the 1930's. I couldn't see the reason for sending money to a Communist dictatorship, for whatever reason, so I avoided buying Chinese made products for as long as I could, and then there was no avoiding it at all. After a while I (like many others) rationalized the situation and thought "Well, if you want them to stop being Commies the best way to do it is to turn them into capitalists. Making money is a lot more fun and rewarding than wearing cheap denim suits and screaming your head off waving copies of Mao's Little Red Book!" Turns out my initial unease was justified. As the old saying goes: "You can't teach an old dog new tricks, or get a leopard to change it's spots." What have the "wise heads" done to us?
Juniata Man As Ulrich noted earlier, all of us bear some responsibility because we expect lower prices. This is at least somewhat to blame for our increasing reliance on Asia as our primary sourcing point over the past decade.
I don't buy that. The CCP will only be able to continue repressing freedoms as long as the country enjoys unprecedented economic growth. They've already picked the low-hanging economic fruit, and now they're facing demographic decline and the pressures of having to maintain prosperity by moving up the value chain.
Adding to their problems is the fact that Xi made himself president for life and is now free to pursue a nationalist, beggar-thy-neighbor foreign policy that's going to come back to bite China in the long run. One of the CCP's unarguable strengths was that it installed new, technocratic leadership every 5 years. That's now gone.
PsychotAdding to their problems is the fact that Xi made himself president for life and is now free to pursue a nationalist, beggar-thy-neighbor foreign policy that's going to come back to bite China in the long run.
What you say may very well be true, but the "long run" might be very long indeed. It took the Soviet Union over 70 years to collapse.
I doubt many of us on this Forum will live long enough to see the CCP collapse, but stranger things have happened.
The Class 1 railroads also better start hiring in more and BETTER CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVES. They are trying to blame everyone else for their lack of service. That missing load of resins my boss had shipped 3 months ago out of Houston on the UP for interchange to the BNSF in Kansas City for delivery to us here. We are still waiting for the freaking thing someone else decided that it needed to get this be returned to Houston and restart the freaking trip. It was less than 30 miles from Kansas city when that happened. Then when it reached Houston the freaking thing was lost all AEI information is gone. We can not trace it anymore.
greyhounds I see the phrase “Class One Rails blame shippers, receivers and truckers” as being way, way to strong and being used pejoratively by people who have a very intense left-wing inclination to have the government control more of everything. The fact that the politicians tend to screw things up big time just doesn’t make a dent in their non-thinking. -1 Anyway, I don’t see the railroads as “Blaming.” I see them as explaining things as they are. A standard practice, which has worked well for over a century, is for the rail carrier to bring the freight in to a rail terminal and then notify the freight receiver: “Hey, it’s here. Come and get it.” The receiver then dispatches a teamster/driver to go get the freight. When the receiver fails to do that, a problem develops because the railroad must store the freight until the receiver gets the pick-up done. To prevent their terminals from being used as a free warehouse by receivers the railroads begin charging for the storage after a certain amount of “Free Time.” (“Free Time” was basically two days when I was working on the railroad.) The charge does escalate. The 1st couple extra days are at a nominal charge, then it increases over time with the storage days becoming progressively more expensive. This does make sense because the terminals do not have unlimited storage capacity to be used as free warehouse space by the freight receivers. A lot of the receivers are getting charged significant sums these days because they’re not picking up their freight. They’ve gone running to the government like a child runs to his/her mother. The failure is not the railroad’s fault. Pointing that fact out is not “Blaming” someone else. It’s explaining the situation properly. Supply chains all over the world are disrupted. There is no constructive action the government can take to change that. They can’t enact a container chassis or a truck driver. This will get worked out. And it will get worked out faster and better if the government just stays out of the way. -1 The politicians will tell us what football game we can watch if we let them. And we do let them. If you’ve ever wondered why the NFL doesn’t play regular season games on Friday nights or Saturdays during the fall, it’s because the government has decided we must watch high school and college football on those days. If we want to watch football at all.
I agree with much of what you are saying apart from your concerns about football broadcasts.
Local TV stations showing high school football on Friday night, network television broadcasting college football on Saturday, pro football taking place mainly on Sunday, with "headline" games taking place Monday Night and the pre-season also having Thursday night games, this system appears to have evolved by informal agreement between the parties involved, with the roll of the Federal government to let this be rather than invoke anti-trust rules to prevent it?
With all of the troubles happening in the world and all of the reasons, causes and people one could blame, I think that the scheduling of football is pretty much OK. For now.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
greyhoundsAnd it will get worked out faster and better if the government just stays out of the way.
So, when is it going to get worked out? Not doing a great job so far. But hey, keep blaming the gov't bogeymen hiding under the bed. -1
zugmannSo, when is it going to get worked out? Not doing a great job so far. But hey, keep blaming the gov't bogeymen hiding under the bed. -1
I didn't "Blame" the government or anyone else. And I cannot provide a timeline for a return to normal.
But, I do know there is no constructive role for the government to play in this situation. They can't create drivers, chassis, or warehouse space by passing a law or regulation.
Paul MilenkovicLocal TV stations showing high school football on Friday night, network television broadcasting college football on Saturday, pro football taking place mainly on Sunday, with "headline" games taking place Monday Night and the pre-season also having Thursday night games, this system appears to have evolved by informal agreement between the parties involved, with the roll of the Federal government to let this be rather than invoke anti-trust rules to prevent it?
It's not an informal agreement. It's a Federal law. The NFL can't legally play games on Friday or Saturday in the fall.
I agree that it's not the greatest concern in the world. I just used it as an example of how far they'll go with senseless regulation.
greyhoundsBut, I do know there is no constructive role for the government to play in this situation. They can't create drivers, chassis, or warehouse space by passing a law or regulation.
Private companies can't seem to, either.
Shadow the Cats owner The Class 1 railroads also better start hiring in more and BETTER CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVES. They are trying to blame everyone else for their lack of service. That missing load of resins my boss had shipped 3 months ago out of Houston on the UP for interchange to the BNSF in Kansas City for delivery to us here. We are still waiting for the freaking thing someone else decided that it needed to get this be returned to Houston and restart the freaking trip. It was less than 30 miles from Kansas city when that happened. Then when it reached Houston the freaking thing was lost all AEI information is gone. We can not trace it anymore.
Have you or the shipper filed a claim with UP for the value of the product and any freight that was paid? Sometimes having a loss claim opened helps a railroad focus a bit more closely on locating the missing car.
zugmann But, I do know Private companies can't seem to, either.
Well, they'll get there as soon as possible. Absent government interference.
Supply and demand will balance. Unless the government sticks its nose in.
We've had quite a jolt from COVID and it's going to take some time, but we'll get back to normal. I'll agree that the government had a role in funding the vaccine, but this is an economic issue, not a health issue.
greyhounds I agree that it's not the greatest concern in the world. I just used it as an example of how far they'll go with senseless regulation.
It is only senseless if you are not High School or College football.
HS and College staked out their claims to Friday and Saturday respectively well over a half century ago. In fact, when they staked their claims professional football was not much of a fan draw on any day anyplace. It wasn't until the widespread distribution of TV and the captivating 'Greatest Game Ever Played' - the 1958 NFL Championship game between the Baltimore Colts and New York Giants that end in a 'sudden death' overtime touchdown by Alan Amache of the Colts that the NFL actaually gained a national audience. It wasn't until 1962 that the NFL got a national TV contract; following the then rival AFL that got a $8.5M for 5 years contract in 1960.
Senseless depends upon which side of a regulation you inhabit.
greyhoundsWe've had quite a jolt from COVID and it's going to take some time, but we'll get back to normal.
Old cowboy saying:
"There's bound to be a lot of tore-up ground where a herd's stampeded!"
A great saying that covers a lot of scenarios.
greyhoundsWell, they'll get there as soon as possible. Absent government interference.
No they won't. They'll jsut whine and cry and hold out their hands for gov't welfare.
zugmannNo they won't. They'll jsut whine and cry and hold out their hands for gov't welfare.
As I said, absent government interference.
BaltACDIt is only senseless if you are not High School or College football.
This whole football thing is trivial. I used it as an example of how trivial government regulation can get.
But, trivial or not, the government should not protect special interests at the expense of the peoples' freedom. No matter how trivial that particular freedom may seem.
Uh-huh, the "Too big to fail" pitch.
Sorry, I'm a hard-a$$. As far as I'm concerned "too big to fail" mean too big to begin with!
While my sympathies more than go out to the affected employees, if a company's incompetently run it deserves to fail. And when it does, there'll be others out there waiting to pick up the pieces and put them to good use, if they're worth picking up, trust me.
Convicted OneI'm with you,..but I don't think my thought process advanced to the point of politics. I just didn't like the shoddy quality.
Other than one overly grumpy poster in the Trains forum, not a lot of people over here promoting Chinese rail products either. I suspect they are cheap knock offs and patent infringed copies of Western designs for the most part and more than likely have their safety shortcommings. Yes they are making sales to 2nd and 3rd World countries in Africa but of course they are being sold as part of a larger package with financing.
I don't see many Chinese Electric car brands for sale in the United States. They have bought out some American and Korean appliance brands for access to manufacturing plans in the United States and elsewhere but in a lot of cases the cat is out of the bag there as well and Americans are starting to realize via purchase and failure of those appliances that the Chinese can't uphold quality on the lower end lines where they have "improved" the manufacturing lines. In other words, reverse Midas touch when it comes to acquisition with appliances so far. American and European car manufacturers they bought so far are holding their own but not a lot of model changes since purchase, so open question if that can be sustained via Chinese innovation and future designs.
BTW, Russians aren't doing so well either. I still remember that two sided I-Phone the Russians bragged would overtake the Apple IPhone in market share. It turned into a total flop. Who the heck wanted a two sided I-Phone to begin with?
greyhoundsThis whole football thing is trivial. I used it as an example of how trivial government regulation can get.
How many of those teams play in gov't built and funded stadiums?
You do not have a clue as to my politics. I simply posted an article concerning railroads execs taking zero responsibility for the mess. You always blame the government for any woes and claim anyone critical if your views is left wing. Utter nonsense.
charlie hebdoYou do not have a clue as to my politics.
Yes I do. And it's more than a "Clue."
And I didn't "Blame" anyone. Including the government.
greyhounds charlie hebdo You do not have a clue as to my politics. Yes I do. And it's more than a "Clue." And I didn't "Blame" anyone. Including the government.
charlie hebdo You do not have a clue as to my politics.
Evidence? More than a clue? But I suppose an extreme rightist accuses any moderate of being a leftist. You say you didn't blame government but you've been riding that hobby horse for years since you wrote a thesis, but in this thread you are using synonyms for blame.
zugmannHow many of those teams play in gov't built and funded stadiums?
Far too many.
When government gets involved in something like that it's crony capitalism and it misallocates economic resources to the detriment of the people.
I do not, in any way, support government funding of stadiums for pro teams.
It has to be said greyhounds hasn't blamed the government... yet. And while I agree there's a pejorative, dare I say dismissive tone to the topic, it's no indication of "leftist" bias, let alone an excuse to start the politics dance.
Where the government's role might be is in legislation based in the Constitutional authority to facilitate interstate commerce, defining standards for not only scheduled delivery and a range of 'disincentives' for late retrieval/forwarding but also for failing to 'precision schedule' arrival at the time a receiver expects to gain access to the shipment. It seems to me this would have salutary effects on both parties without the usual fines and strict scrutiny and emergent bureaucrazy that would go with the government also nosing in to enforce the legislated principles.
greyhounds zugmann How many of those teams play in gov't built and funded stadiums? Far too many. When government gets involved in something like that it's crony capitalism and it misallocates economic resources to the detriment of the people. I do not, in any way, support government funding of stadiums for pro teams.
zugmann How many of those teams play in gov't built and funded stadiums?
Virtually all pro teams play in stadiums that have been built and financed to local governments. To my limited knowledge Jerry Jones of the Cowboys is the only owner that has built a stadium on his own nickel. Local governments being held hostage by multi-billionaire team owners and their threats to move the teams to other local governments that are more willing to be held hostage than where the team currently calls home.
BaltACDVirtually all pro teams play in stadiums that have been built and financed to local governments.
And people wonder what happened to all the money that was supposed to go to infrastructure in the past few decades.
Putting money into infrastructure is fine, but there'd better be some oversight or it's going to disappear to who-knows-where.
greyhoundsI do not, in any way, support government funding of stadiums for pro teams.
Neither do I, and in fact I'd take it one step further.
If the colleges and universities with high-profile football programs around the country are the de facto farm teams for the NFL (which they are) then the NFL should foot the bills for those football programs. Period.
Higher education should be about just that, not manufacturing "gladiators."
Overmod It has to be said greyhounds hasn't blamed the government... yet. And while I agree there's a pejorative, dare I say dismissive tone to the topic, it's no indication of "leftist" bias, let alone an excuse to start the politics dance. Where the government's role might be is in legislation based in the Constitutional authority to facilitate interstate commerce, defining standards for not only scheduled delivery and a range of 'disincentives' for late retrieval/forwarding but also for failing to 'precision schedule' arrival at the time a receiver expects to gain access to the shipment. It seems to me this would have salutary effects on both parties without the usual fines and strict scrutiny and emergent bureaucrazy that would go with the government also nosing in to enforce the legislated principles.
The person in question has had this in his signature, for years: "I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic"
To answer the question if a claim has been filed for the value of the resin. You better believe that it was. That stuff was medical grade designed for pharmaceutical companies and expensive. But UP is fighting the claim from both the shipper and us hoping to drag it out to the point we get tired of fighting them. The shipper has a bigger gun to hit them with their going to the STB as we speak on this and several other problems they have had with UP over the last year. To the point where they actually got someone's attention.
Flintlock76 greyhounds I do not, in any way, support government funding of stadiums for pro teams. Neither do I, and in fact I'd take it one step further. If the colleges and universities with high-profile football programs around the country are the de facto farm teams for the NFL (which they are) then the NFL should foot the bills for those football programs. Period. Higher education should be about just that, not manufacturing "gladiators."
greyhounds I do not, in any way, support government funding of stadiums for pro teams.
The public funed stadia are 'sold' to the electorate on the basis of 'economic impact'. The idea that the ticket buyers to events at the stadia are infusing money into the local economy - through the tickets, through payroll to the participants of the events, through wares sold at the venue during the events, through parking and other fees that those attending the event will be paying for the privledge of using the tickets they purchased. The trickle down theory in action.
Shadow the Cats owner To answer the question if a claim has been filed for the value of the resin. You better believe that it was. That stuff was medical grade designed for pharmaceutical companies and expensive. But UP is fighting the claim from both the shipper and us hoping to drag it out to the point we get tired of fighting them. The shipper has a bigger gun to hit them with their going to the STB as we speak on this and several other problems they have had with UP over the last year. To the point where they actually got someone's attention.
Good! Hopefully y'all can get it resolved quickly (in a "railroad time" definition of quickly anyhow...).
On this point, I am in agreement with you!!
The rails are not totally to blame, but clearly have a major contribution to the screw-up in the logistics chain. Their passing the buck strategy won't hunt.
charlie hebdoThe person in question has had this in his signature, for years: "I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic"
You have to give him some credit, he's being right up front about it.
In fact, I find that kind of honesty refreshing in this day and age.
The previous sentence is NOT intended as a critisism of any other Forum poster, so none of you take it as such.
Flintlock76 charlie hebdo The person in question has had this in his signature, for years: "I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic" You have to give him some credit, he's being right up front about it. In fact, I find that kind of honesty refreshing in this day and age. The previous sentence is NOT intended as a critisism of any other Forum poster, so none of you take it as such.
charlie hebdo The person in question has had this in his signature, for years: "I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic"
It's more than just being honest. It is a boast.
If I had a tag, it would say I am a pragmatist, looking to see what works best for the most, not some ideological purist. I am critical of all sectors. And that means I believe in upholding democratic values and science above all. If that makes me a leftist in his eyes, that says a lot about him.
The supply chain is made up of various transport industries. If any one of them fails, it affects the whole chain. But in this case, where is there evidence that any facet of the supply chain has failed? What we have is a surge in business as people restart their lives after the pandemic. The surge overwhelms the supply chain.
Naturally members of the supply chain point fingers at each other. Yet none of them are to blame. They are not expected to handle the largest possible surges. The direct cause of this is the restart, and the direct cause of that is the shutdown. Unless the shutdown was unnecessarily large and long, the direct cause was Covid. If the shutdown was unnecessarily large and long, the cause was the government.
EuclidUnless the shutdown was unnecessarily large and long, the direct cause was COVID. If the shutdown was unnecessarily large and long, the cause was the government.
It might be possible for 'government' to legislate guidelines for PSR/'just in time' shipping. This might include standards for how quickly a shipment is expected to be retrieved upon its scheduled accessibility at a particular point; what the general costs progressively over time might be if it is not (or a carrier needs to move it to 'storage'; how quickly, and to where, empty containers or chassis need to be returned; wgat compensation is to be expected when a railroad fails to deliver where and as 'scheduled' or promised.
While this is not 'safety' related, a great deal of it is legitimately related to interstate commerce under the Commerce Clause, and therefore constitutional to establish federal standards for.
But as I understand greyhounds to be pointing out, it is NOT the "government's" function, having passed such legislation, to establish any kind of government executive agency or procedures to enforce it, add riders a la PTC, come up with punitive fines for all concerned, use violations as a pretext for strict scrutiny. Let the civil courts cover any noncompliance, and work out the amount of any damages, and use commercial law provisions to enforce as needed.
To the extent 'government' needs to be involved, it would be in facilitating access to effective counsel for shippers or others going up against organizations with deep pockets, legal departments on retainer, Lorenzo- or Riffin-style excessive litigiousness, etc. But that is one of those government things, like free day care, that ought to be available anywhere, pro bono...
PSR means longer trains but the staff and the lifting capacity has not matched the longer trains
ronrunner, the evidence presented indicates the RR's are providing the transportation requested but the receivers are unable to pick up their orders.
ronrunnerPSR means longer trains but the staff and the lifting capacity has not matched the longer trains
The grounding capacity at intermodal terminals is insufficient to keep up with customers inability to remove their boxes from the terminals in a expeditious manner. Intermodal terminals do not have unlimited storage capacity to band-aid the deficiencies of their customers.
The other problem is a long standing trade deficit where there always more east bound containers full from Asia and the railroads have to pay fuel and labor to ship empty containers back
The other problem is a long standing trade deficit where there always more east bound containers full from Asia and the railroads have to pay fuel and labor to ship empty containers back west
ronrunner The other problem is a long standing trade deficit where there always more east bound containers full from Asia and the railroads have to pay fuel and labor to ship empty containers back west
If empty comtainers are going west it's because the ocean carriers want it that way. And if the railroads are handling them they aren't doing it for free. An empty container is not the same as an empty private railcar which generally does return at no additional cost.
Until earlier this year when demand for ocean containers began to outstrip their availability, many west bound cans moved loaded with commodities such as scrap steel, grain or packaged chemicals and plastic pellets - just to name some of the stuff being handled. Ocean carriers have, to my understanding, refused some west bound opportunities in order to expedite return of containers to the west coast and back to Asia more quickly.
ronrunner PSR means longer trains but the staff and the lifting capacity has not matched the longer trains
Lifting capacity is not the problem. Intermodal terminals are not designed for long term storage they have to maintain a balanced flow of boxes in and out of the terminal... It also takes chassis's to get boxes out of a terminal. When it comes to Ocean carries they dictate which chassis pools are to be used when flipping their boxes. When it comes to domestic carriers only high volume shippers such as JB Hunt or Schneider have their own chassis. Others rely on chassis pools. NS does own a small chassis fleet. Chassis capacity is severely curtailed right now. So that's another main reason boxes aren't moving...
Side note.. Found a little interesting tidbit. Walmart ranked #1 in import TEU's reported as of 2020. They came in at a total of 980,000 TEU's. Out of a total import volume of 24.5 Million TEU's. That slice represents 4% of that volume.. That's pretty substantial..
ronrunnerThe other problem is a long standing trade deficit where there always more east bound containers full from Asia and the railroads have to pay fuel and labor to ship empty containers back
Not a railroad problem.
charlie hebdo Shadow the Cats owner To answer the question if a claim has been filed for the value of the resin. You better believe that it was. That stuff was medical grade designed for pharmaceutical companies and expensive. But UP is fighting the claim from both the shipper and us hoping to drag it out to the point we get tired of fighting them. The shipper has a bigger gun to hit them with their going to the STB as we speak on this and several other problems they have had with UP over the last year. To the point where they actually got someone's attention. On this point, I am in agreement with you!! The rails are not totally to blame, but clearly have a major contribution to the screw-up in the logistics chain. Their passing the buck strategy won't hunt.
How major is it? While the Class 1's are currently having labor issues that are self inflicted.. Do railroads control labor issues outside their industry? What control do railroads have when it comes to ocean carriers preferred port of call? Do railroads control the chassis pools? Should railroads offer long term near-site storage to ease terminal congestion?
You can't put most of the blame on one wheel of the car if the others aren't performing...
SD60MAC9500 charlie hebdo Shadow the Cats owner To answer the question if a claim has been filed for the value of the resin. You better believe that it was. That stuff was medical grade designed for pharmaceutical companies and expensive. But UP is fighting the claim from both the shipper and us hoping to drag it out to the point we get tired of fighting them. The shipper has a bigger gun to hit them with their going to the STB as we speak on this and several other problems they have had with UP over the last year. To the point where they actually got someone's attention. On this point, I am in agreement with you!! The rails are not totally to blame, but clearly have a major contribution to the screw-up in the logistics chain. Their passing the buck strategy won't hunt. How major is it? While the Class 1's are currently having labor issues that are self inflicted.. Do railroads control labor issues outside their industry? What control do railroads have when it comes to ocean carriers preferred port of call? Do railroads control the chassis pools? Should railroads offer long term near-site storage to ease terminal congestion? You can't put most of the blame on one wheel of the car if the others aren't performing...
Every participant in the Supply Chain have their issues in all aspects of their own operations that affect every other participant in the Supply Chain.
A ClusterF of worldwide proportions.
OvermodIt might be possible for 'government' to legislate guidelines for PSR/'just in time' shipping. This might include standards for how quickly a shipment is expected to be retrieved upon its scheduled accessibility at a particular point; what the general costs progressively over time might be if it is not (or a carrier needs to move it to 'storage'; how quickly, and to where, empty containers or chassis need to be returned; wgat compensation is to be expected when a railroad fails to deliver where and as 'scheduled' or promised.
Balt: Good to see that someone from the rail end is not wearing rose-colored (ideological) glasses and not refusing to acknowledge that this is a massive mess and rails are not immune to criticism.
greyhoundsOvermod is looking to establish a centrally planed, government controlled freight rail transportation system. I have no idea why he thinks such an effort will work well “This Time” when it’s never worked well in the past.
Why he thinks a bunch of government bureaucrats can design a national freight rail transportation system better than the one we have now remains a mystery. We do have the safest, most efficient rail freight system in the world.
Overmod’s proposal would also effectively remove costs from the railroads' control.
The 'reciprocal' concern is to address the (now pretty well demonstrated) tendency of some railroads to fail to deliver according to their precision scheduling. Is greyhounds arguing that railroads shouldn't be held to their end of contractual intermodal handover provisions?
The point about using nothing but commercial law to settle 'disputes' is precisely to keep some damn bureaucracy or other from asserting authority over ensuring 'compliance'. Remember I said that the legislation involved principles, not defining statutory offenses that Federal machinery would enforce? That only goes so far as to set standards to be used in contracts -- with any breach then handled as for UCC contract disputes... comparatively little leeway for shystering, and not one cent for Government tribute.
A quick update. 53' box capacity has essentially dried up on the West Coast. Some inland point intermodal (IPI where ocean boxes travel from port to a recievers door) lanes has been put on suspension. The ocean carriers are now telling benefical cargo owners (BCO those who take control of freight once it lands at a port. Few examples Target, Home Depot, etc..) to transload into 53' dry vans.. That's not good as rates will increase substantially from reduced capacity in the dry van market.
We're already seeing it in the spot market in the OTR rates coming out of California. Dry van carriers that normally struggle to find reloads are now getting rates that make it easier to get out of California. I'm seeing spot rates in the 2.50 to 3 dollar a mile range right now. Why stores are trying to get their holiday merchandise into their warehouses and they need the shipping. Right now it's a perfect freaking storm in the logistics industry. Not enough capacity on the railroads and barely enough surplus in the OTR side. I've heard that JB and Schneider are both starting to divert stuff from the intermodal network to try and ease the problem. Going to be an interesting next few months.
As of yesterday the number of ships off of Long Beach awaiting berth was 66...one less than the all time high of 67 earlier this year.
Meanwhile on the east coast, container ships are beginning to pile up outside NY, Savanah, and other locations. It is a mess everywhere and it will take quite awhile (IMHO) for this to clear out.
When I hear Fortune 50 suppliers tell me it will be at least into 1Q22, that speaks volumes.
Strap it in, buy your holiday gifts early, or better yet scale back and be thankful for what you have.
Ed
greyhoundsThe freight rail system isn’t perfect, and it has some problems from the COVID pandemic, but trying to fix it with massive government involvement is a fools errand.
While COVID sure didn't help (but gives a great excuse that keeps giving!), many of these problems were starting before that. Almost like all the railroads decided to adopt a certain operating philosophy that called for reductions in staffing, yards, and equipment. Nah, must be a coincidence.
I think that most customers of contract services, expect the contractor to be a source of solutions, not excuses.
If I'm waiting on two dozen boxes from the west coast, and Union Pacific responds that they are holding back containers because some of their other customers have been "naughty" and not picked up the boxes they have already brought inland...why are they making that my problem? Let them lease adequate space to store the derelict customer's boxes, and provide the service I've contracted for....
All this "blame covid", "can't find good help", "People are too busy collecting enhanced unemployment benefits and don't want to work" sounds like a sad song indeed. But nonetheless are just cop outs. You're the solution providers, Transcon railroads, so find one and deploy it! Atlas shrugged, perhaps?
Convicted OneI think that most customers of contract services, expect the contractor to be a source of solutions, not excuses. If I'm waiting on two dozen boxes from the west coast, and Union Pacific responds that they are holding back containers because some of their other customers have been "naughty" and not picked up the boxes they have already brought inland...why are they making that my problem? Let them lease adequate space to store the derelict customer's boxes, and provide the service I've contracted for.... All this "blame covid", "can't find good help", "People are too busy collecting enhanced unemployment benefits and don't want to work" sounds like a sad song indeed. But nonetheless are just cop outs. You're the solution providers, Transcon railroads, so find one and deploy it! Atlas shrugged, perhaps?
And when they give you all 12 of your boxes at one time and you only have the ability to handle one a day - thats the railroads problem too????
There are no clean hands in this ClusterF....
The point being Balt, someone selling solutions needs to be reliable. That's what they do,...And you'd normally expect a major player such as UP or BNSF to be the most competent one in the room.
As Shadow mentions, I'll bet this is a great time to be backhauling from California.
Convicted OneThe point being Balt, someone selling solutions needs to be reliable. That's what they do,...And you'd normally expect a major player such as UP or BNSF to be the most competent one in the room. As Shadow mentions, I'll bet this is a great time to be backhauling from California.
It is the assumption that every player in the supply chain is reliable - the reality is that in this day and age - THEY ARE NOT. Ocean Shipping is not. Railroad Shipping is not, Truck shipping is not - hell, the issue with the Colonial Pipeline system goes to prove they are not either. We as consumers, are ordering too much product from off shore locations that just exacerbates the situation. Throw on top of that, over the past year or more there has been a political effort to destroy the Post Office as a reliable carrier.
Don't forget our "Just in time" manufacturing. The accountants were happy, but everything was built on quick shipments. We have failures from A-Z
The pipeline problem had zero to due with the trucking industry. When that pipeline was hijacked literally and shutdown there wasn't enough fuel to freaking go around in that area. My driver's were also affected but we had them fuel up outside the affected areas with full tanks and buying minimal amounts 50 gallons at a time to get back outside that area. Most of the time they got out with just 1 or 2 at the most stops for fuel. No one has raised however that the biggest shortage right now is semiconductors of all types. Why when the pandemic hit China it literally shutdown 60 percent of the world's producers of chips.
Shadow the Cats owner The pipeline problem had zero to due with the trucking industry. When that pipeline was hijacked literally and shutdown there wasn't enough fuel to freaking go around in that area. My driver's were also affected but we had them fuel up outside the affected areas with full tanks and buying minimal amounts 50 gallons at a time to get back outside that area. Most of the time they got out with just 1 or 2 at the most stops for fuel. No one has raised however that the biggest shortage right now is semiconductors of all types. Why when the pandemic hit China it literally shutdown 60 percent of the world's producers of chips.
From what I've read and heard, it's a combination of zooming demand for the latest high end chips for consumer electronics and the tanking of demand for older generation chips during the lockdow. Autos for instance use the older chips, and productive capacity turned to new chips when automakers stopped ordering. Now they want the chips. Few to be had.
Shadow the Cats owner The pipeline problem had zero to due with the trucking industry.
The pipeline problem had zero to due with the trucking industry.
But it did impact transportation and probably worsened the situation. The chip shortage (now it has expanded to other components like fans and power supplies) may have helped problem by keeping unfinished products on the dock. Still all of this shows how fragile the whole system is.
BaltACDWe as consumers, are ordering too much product from off shore locations that just exacerbates the situation.
Hey, maybe if we could just spend more taxpayer money raising bridges, and deepening harbors to accomodate bigger ships, we'll all live happily ever after?
Convicted One BaltACD We as consumers, are ordering too much product from off shore locations that just exacerbates the situation. Hey, maybe if we could just spend more taxpayer money raising bridges, and deepening harbors to accomodate bigger ships, we'll all live happily ever after?
BaltACD We as consumers, are ordering too much product from off shore locations that just exacerbates the situation.
Bigger ships just get product to port - they don't get the product to the end user.
This has and is already happening.
I think you both may have missed the intended sarcasm of my comment.
I still stand behind my earlier assertion, If there is a logistics problem, then you (UP or BNSF) are the logistics experts, so solve it. Don't come wimpering to me, expecting a comfortable shoulder to cry on. Find a solution!!
Convicted OneI still stand behind my earlier assertion, If there is a logistics problem, then you (UP or BNSF) are the logistics experts, so solve it. Don't come wimpering to me, expecting a comfortable shoulder to cry on. Find a solution!!
When you as a 'customer' are not upholding YOUR end of the transportation contract YOU become the problem, not the carriers. It is your obligation to get the boxes consigned to you off the carriers property - it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them.
See my reply above regarding LCL service.
The problem is they have forgotten how to solve the problems and instead they create larger problems to try and fix the small ones. You know close down yards that could possibly provide some overflow capacity to relieve the stress on the major ones. Or thinking running a 16k foot train is better than 3 5k foot ones even though there's not a single siding long enough for that monster on their single track mainline and they have another monster just like it coming the other direction. The best one is screaming that we can't get the containers out of the yards fast enough. Well if your freaking check in procedures didn't take 1 hour per freaking truck to do maybe more stuff could get moved. It takes on average 1 hour to check in or out after picking up or dropping off a container to a railroad intermodal yard. Then most yards your lucky to have more than 2 inbound and 2 outbound lanes open. If you're wanting this cargo moved how about getting the trucks that provide the last mile service in and out of the freaking bottlenecks.
BaltACDWhen you as a 'customer' are not upholding YOUR end of the transportation contract YOU become the problem, not the carriers. It is your obligation to get the boxes consigned to you off the carriers property - it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them.
"Me" as a customer? Who said anything about my being unable to receive my due? If you read my earlier post, it was about OTHER customers clogging up the rail distribution chain. I just want my (hypothetical) boxes. Railroads don't come blaming me for the problems of others.
Again, we go to a logistics expert seeking solutions, not excuses,.... because if I end up having to solve the problem myself, then the direction I go might end up being to my permanent liking.
Shadow the Cats ownerThe problem is they have forgotten how to solve the problems and instead they create larger problems to try and fix the small ones. You know close down yards that could possibly provide some overflow capacity to relieve the stress on the major ones.
I suspect that is a big part of it. The railroads have grown too fond of the taste of "low hanging fruit" and so are disinclined to adapt during exceptional circumstances.
"Hey, we've spent the last 20 years bullying and arm twisting to get things set up just the way we want them,.. why should we give that up now?"
Convicted One BaltACD When you as a 'customer' are not upholding YOUR end of the transportation contract YOU become the problem, not the carriers. It is your obligation to get the boxes consigned to you off the carriers property - it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them. "Me" as a customer? Who said anything about my being unable to receive my due? If you read my earlier post, it was about OTHER customers clogging up the rail distribution chain. I just want my (hypothetical) boxes. Railroads don't come blaming me for the problems of others. Again, we go to a logistics expert seeking solutions, not excuses,.... because if I end up having to solve the problem myself, then the direction I go might end up being to my permanent liking.
BaltACD When you as a 'customer' are not upholding YOUR end of the transportation contract YOU become the problem, not the carriers. It is your obligation to get the boxes consigned to you off the carriers property - it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them.
You are the generic customer. Some customers actually accept their freight upon presentation - many more do not. I see any number of complaints by truckers being held out from delivering their trailers upon arrival - to the detriment of the drivers Hours of Service time and the revenue that lost working time occasions.
Railroads are involved in TRANSPORTATION, not storage. Customers are trying to use railroad facilities for their own storage and then they cry about the demurrage/storage/accessory charges their actions create.
BaltACDYou are the generic customer.
Awe shucks, and all this time I thought Uncle Pete's insistence of "We can handle it" was sincere... Made me feel all cozy, and stuff.
Convicted One BaltACD You are the generic customer. Awe shucks, and all this time I thought Uncle Pete's insistence of "We can handle it" was sincere... Made me feel all cozy, and stuff.
BaltACD You are the generic customer.
That is the problem you are too warm and cozy to handle your part of the supply chain. Remember the Ever Given is now going South through the Suez Canal - remember when it stopped the canal for 6 days.
BaltACDThat is the problem you are too warm and cozy to handle your part of the supply chain.
Perhaps I was not blunt enough. To have a service provider fail in the performance of their contracted service to me, and blame it upon the ineptness of their other customers....is weak, and not something I would imagine most customers would endure without rethinking the relationship. And your further attempt to brand me as a generic customer being part of that problem, is no more than feeble guilt peddling.
Call me instead "Generic Customer seeking competent alternate solution provider"...
Convicted One BaltACD That is the problem you are too warm and cozy to handle your part of the supply chain. Perhaps I was not blunt enough. To have a service provider fail in the performance of their contracted service to me, and blame it upon the ineptness of their other customers....is weak, and not something I would imagine most customers would endure without rethinking the relationship. And your further attempt to brand me as a generic customer being part of that problem, is no more than feeble guilt peddling. Call me instead "Generic Customer seeking competent alternate solution provider"...
BaltACD That is the problem you are too warm and cozy to handle your part of the supply chain.
Take your stuff when it is offered to you. If you don't you are the problem that needs to find a alternate solution to be able to get your stuff OFF MY LAWN in a timely fashion. I cannot fix your failings. When you get charged for YOUR failings - pay the bill. Anything else and you are trying to steal services without paying.
You sound like Swift or some of the other bottom feeding 'customers'.
Some forget the railroads used to be about customer service. I'm not saying they need to be a charity - but I wonder how much money they leave on the table by their bull-headed stubborness?
BaltACDTake your stuff when it is offered to you. If you don't you are the problem that needs to find a alternate solution to be able to get your stuff OFF MY LAWN in a timely fashion. I cannot fix your failings.
But you see? That's just it. I began our dialog with the observation of "If I'm waiting on two dozen boxes from the west coast, and Union Pacific responds that they are holding back containers..,." And ever since you've been trying to pigeon hole me as one of the derelict customers with unclaimed boxes awaiting pickup.
Does it track logically that if I am waiting on two dozen boxes, and the railroad is making excuses that they are holding back my boxes because other customers are problematic....that I would also have boxes sitting unclaimed? Seems mutually exclusive to me.
I might very well be sitting on 24 chassis that I am hoping to use to pick up my boxes, but the railroad is too busy making excuses about their "naughty" other customers.
So, I guess in the mean time I just subcontract out my services using my chassis to help the others clean up their mess, so the railroad will in turn finally forward my hostage containers from their west coast hide out?
Forgive me if I tend to recall from time to time thereafter how the railroad chose to make their problem, into my problem. lol "UP Delivers!!"
The amount of empty shelves I'm seeing at retailers is sadly amusing. And not just on a spot basis, I'm talking about products that have been sold out for weeks on end, with stores you would expect to be on top of their game (Walmart, Target, etc).
I was just in a Dollar General, and it was astounding the entire swaths of shelf space sitting empty. Sure made me think of this thread. So, I asked the manager if she had any insight, and she just replied that they haven't "seen a truck" in two weeks.
Could this ordeal possibly have a silver lining for competing products sourced on this continent?
This is not exclusively the fault of the railroads. But it appears (and amplified in spades on here) they have the attitude of blaming everyone else for the failures, including customers. Really inept but a great way to lose those customers in the future.
Yes just another blame everyone else. Instead why not try to offer them help in solving the problems. Any solutions will take effort from all affected persons. It may be that increasing storage fees temporarily might help. Attracting more dray drivers by paying more. Incraeasing wharehouse thruput. ETC.
blue streak 1Yes just another blame everyone else. Instead why not try to offer them help in solving the problems. Any solutions will take effort from all affected persons. It may be that increasing storage fees temporarily might help. Attracting more dray drivers by paying more. Incraeasing wharehouse thruput. ETC.
They're doing what they can. UP has reopened Global 3 in Rochelle, IL to add storage space. BNSF has increased storage space at its Elwood, IL terminal by taking tracks out of service and using them to store containers.
The railroads don't control warehouse thruput, nor do they control drayage driver pay.
Supply chains all over the world are disrupted. The railroads don't have a magic wand to fix it.
blue streak 1 Yes just another blame everyone else. Instead why not try to offer them help in solving the problems. Any solutions will take effort from all affected persons. It may be that increasing storage fees temporarily might help. Attracting more dray drivers by paying more. Incraeasing wharehouse thruput. ETC.
That's where the money is. Lot's of finger pointing and blaming..and lots of money being made by people who can help their customers..
greyhounds blue streak 1 Yes just another blame everyone else. Instead why not try to offer them help in solving the problems. Any solutions will take effort from all affected persons. It may be that increasing storage fees temporarily might help. Attracting more dray drivers by paying more. Incraeasing wharehouse thruput. ETC. They're doing what they can. UP has reopened Global 3 in Rochelle, IL to add storage space. BNSF has increased storage space at its Elwood, IL terminal by taking tracks out of service and using them to store containers. The railroads don't control warehouse thruput, nor do they control drayage driver pay. Supply chains all over the world are disrupted. The railroads don't have a magic wand to fix it.
Everybody in the Supply Chain has had a hand in its breakdown. Manufacturers, Shippers, Container operators, Port Terminal Operations, Drayage Firms, Railroads, OTR Trucking, Consignees. Everybody has some level of failure - NOBODY has clean hands.
BaltACD Convicted One I still stand behind my earlier assertion, If there is a logistics problem, then you (UP or BNSF) are the logistics experts, so solve it. Don't come wimpering to me, expecting a comfortable shoulder to cry on. Find a solution!! When you as a 'customer' are not upholding YOUR end of the transportation contract YOU become the problem, not the carriers. It is your obligation to get the boxes consigned to you off the carriers property - it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them.
Convicted One I still stand behind my earlier assertion, If there is a logistics problem, then you (UP or BNSF) are the logistics experts, so solve it. Don't come wimpering to me, expecting a comfortable shoulder to cry on. Find a solution!!
BaltACD greyhounds blue streak 1 Yes just another blame everyone else. Instead why not try to offer them help in solving the problems. Any solutions will take effort from all affected persons. It may be that increasing storage fees temporarily might help. Attracting more dray drivers by paying more. Incraeasing wharehouse thruput. ETC. They're doing what they can. UP has reopened Global 3 in Rochelle, IL to add storage space. BNSF has increased storage space at its Elwood, IL terminal by taking tracks out of service and using them to store containers. The railroads don't control warehouse thruput, nor do they control drayage driver pay. Supply chains all over the world are disrupted. The railroads don't have a magic wand to fix it. Everybody in the Supply Chain has had a hand in its breakdown. Manufacturers, Shippers, Container operators, Port Terminal Operations, Drayage Firms, Railroads, OTR Trucking, Consignees. Everybody has some level of failure - NOBODY has clean hands.
I am confused by the contradiction between the statement "It is your obligation to get the boxes consigned to you off the carriers property - it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them" with "Railroads, OTR Trucking, Consignees. Everybody has some level of failure - NOBODY has clean hands."
Didn't you first claim that the railroads indeed have "clean hands" inasmuch as that it is unreasonable to blame them when customers don't pick up their containers from railroad intermodal yards?
Paul Milenkovic I am confused by the contradiction between the statement "It is your obligation to get the boxes consigned to you off the carriers property - it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them" with "Railroads, OTR Trucking, Consignees. Everybody has some level of failure - NOBODY has clean hands." Didn't you first claim that the railroads indeed have "clean hands" inasmuch as that it is unreasonable to blame them when customers don't pick up their containers from railroad intermodal yards?
Never stated the RR's had clean hands - EVERYBODY in the chain has dirty hands of varying degrees for various reasons.
BaltACD Paul Milenkovic I am confused by the contradiction between the statement "It is your obligation to get the boxes consigned to you off the carriers property - it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them" with "Railroads, OTR Trucking, Consignees. Everybody has some level of failure - NOBODY has clean hands." Didn't you first claim that the railroads indeed have "clean hands" inasmuch as that it is unreasonable to blame them when customers don't pick up their containers from railroad intermodal yards? Never stated the RR's had clean hands - EVERYBODY in the chain has dirty hands of varying degrees for various reasons.
What part of "it is not the carriers obligation to find more space to store your boxes until you can handle them" is not claiming that the RR's indeed have "clean hands" in that they are doing everything reasonable and expected of them at their intermodal terminals?
If boxes are backing up at the RR intermodal terminal because the RR is not delivering the boxes to the intermodal terminal in a timely matter because whatever reason -- PSR, short staffing, whatever -- then it would be reasonable for the RR's to be expected to either store the boxes on their property or "un-PSR" their operations so there is a steady flow of rail shipments to the terminal for their customers to dray off the RR property.
A number of commenters on this site are saying "don't blame the RR's, it is not their job to store boxes on their property if their customers don't pick them up." The statement "it is your obligation to get boxes . . .off the carrier's property" isn't agreeing with those other commenters?
What do you suppose is the chance that at least a portion of the chassis shortage that everyone is fretting about is due to them being deployed in rubber tired detour service transporting containers inland, by customers taking matters into their own hands and deciding to circumvent the vaporlocked railroads?
Convicted One The amount of empty shelves I'm seeing at retailers is sadly amusing. And not just on a spot basis, I'm talking about products that have been sold out for weeks on end, with stores you would expect to be on top of their game (Walmart, Target, etc). I was just in a Dollar General, and it was astounding the entire swaths of shelf space sitting empty. Sure made me think of this thread. So, I asked the manager if she had any insight, and she just replied that they haven't "seen a truck" in two weeks. Could this ordeal possibly have a silver lining for competing products sourced on this continent?
Some of the products that I've looked for that are either out of stock or in short supply are made here in the US. I think some brands are concentrating only on their best selling items, temporarily discontinuing what they perceive as lesser items.
Jeff
There has been some retooling in that only certain items that were high volume sellers were kept in production during the height of the pandemic. Especially in things like toilet paper or paper towels. Those items had the variety of things cut by 30 percent.
Certain meat cuts also have been hard to come by due to labor shortage in the meat processing system. As for the rest there's a raw material shortage as some supplies only come from certain parts of the world and without trade it is hard to get needed items in to make things.
My point was that everyone needs to get together to increase thru put. IMO supplies are going to suffer for a long time world wide. It may be some of the labor shortage comes from USA businesses trying to return supplies closer to home. Another is the demand mix is different.
An example: Friend has a fasirly large business that had a very good relationship with suppliers. The distributor for toilet paper was over stocked with commercial paper that no one wanted. Supplier was Desperate to clear inventory. My friend had space to purchase enough that he still has not worked off all the extra. - Now home toilet paper that comes off different lines is often still in short availability. One week my store has plenty next week empty. Also same for paper towels. No relationship between the two.
Convicted One What do you suppose is the chance that at least a portion of the chassis shortage that everyone is fretting about is due to them being deployed in rubber tired detour service transporting containers inland, by customers taking matters into their own hands and deciding to circumvent the vaporlocked railroads?
BackshopMaybe a small part. IM chassis are normally spec'd very cheaply and aren't used for long hauls.
Well, I'm not proposing to have all the answers, I'm just saying that when left with no better alternative, creative minds tend to adapt.
Rather than allow a stubborn class 1 to shut me down, empty warehouse space is not hard to find. I might rent temporary space In some half way location like Denver (etc) and break down the containers there, rather than Chicago. And if that works well enough, consider repeating the proceedure (as I mentioned earlier, if forced to find my own solution, I might find alternatives more to my liking than the status quo)
jeffhergert think some brands are concentrating only on their best selling items, temporarily discontinuing what they perceive as lesser items.
Yes, I'm confident that you are correct about that. I supect that to be the case with several of the items I'm finding in chronic short supply. (single serving sized processed foods, just for one example)
But I suspect the off-shore parking lot to be to blame for many others.
And then there are all those insubordinate unemployed, hedonistically reveling in their lavish, subsidized unemployment benefits.
Convicted One jeffhergert think some brands are concentrating only on their best selling items, temporarily discontinuing what they perceive as lesser items. Yes, I'm confident that you are correct about that. I supect that to be the case with several of the items I'm finding in chronic short supply. (single serving sized processed foods, just for one example) But I suspect the off-shore parking lot to be to blame for many others. And then there are all those insubordinate unemployed, hedonistically reveling in their lavish, subsidized unemployment benefits.
Convicted One... And then there are all those insubordinate unemployed, hedonistically reveling in their lavish, subsidized unemployment benefits.
If the unemployed have it so good - maybe you should quit your job and join them and grain status.
BaltACD Convicted One And then there are all those insubordinate unemployed, hedonistically reveling in their lavish, subsidized unemployment benefits. If the unemployed have it so good - maybe you should quit your job and join them and grain status.
Convicted One And then there are all those insubordinate unemployed, hedonistically reveling in their lavish, subsidized unemployment benefits.
Is it just me or does it seem like teenagers don't work anymore? All the entry level jobs in fast food, etc., are being performed by "retired" people. That's not right. You build many lifelong job skills in your first job.
BaltACDmaybe you should quit your job and join them and grain status.
I've been enjoying retirement now for 20 months (double "woosh" )
I was just satirizing the laments of a certain group that includes our govenor, who insist that those "hedonists" I describe are a paramount threat to the Republic
Murphy Sidingif you want to buy shingles, the major manufactureres are so far behind that they've cut their offerings to their 4 or 5 most popular colors in their major line. If you want something else, you can place your order, but it won't get made until they catch up.
I didn't care for them much when I first started noticing them 10-12 years ago. But lately I've found those metal roofing systems quite attractive. Thanks for adding a practical dimension.
Convicted One Murphy Siding if you want to buy shingles, the major manufactureres are so far behind that they've cut their offerings to their 4 or 5 most popular colors in their major line. If you want something else, you can place your order, but it won't get made until they catch up. I didn't care for them much when I first started noticing them 10-12 years ago. But lately I've found those metal roofing systems quite attractive. Thanks for adding a practical dimension.
Murphy Siding if you want to buy shingles, the major manufactureres are so far behind that they've cut their offerings to their 4 or 5 most popular colors in their major line. If you want something else, you can place your order, but it won't get made until they catch up.
"Wanna get away?"
Sounds like it would be a great idea!...except that airline (Southwest) has huge issues. Not enough employees, high demand for service, and very disgrunted employees. Oh, they are not alone...other airlines have cancelled flights also.
Hmm, probably the fault of the railroads! If they would just run a few more passenger trains this problem would go away! Or not.
We are in a mess and it is going to be this way for quite awhile. Planning needs to be based on months not days, regardless of what you are doing.
Guess what, here comes the next round of COVID. Lots of personal freedom and liberty about vacinations and masks...oops we didnt quite get that right.
My employer's biggest supplier (a Fortune 50 giant) has indicated it will be getting worse and anticipating lengthed supply chains and ongoing shortage of materials and the product they are providing has a high rejection rate.
Hang in there, stay calm, manage what you can.
MP173"Wanna get away?" Sounds like it would be a great idea!...except that airline (Southwest) has huge issues. Not enough employees, high demand for service, and very disgrunted employees. Oh, they are not alone...other airlines have cancelled flights also. Hmm, probably the fault of the railroads! If they would just run a few more passenger trains this problem would go away! Or not. We are in a mess and it is going to be this way for quite awhile. Planning needs to be based on months not days, regardless of what you are doing. Guess what, here comes the next round of COVID. Lots of personal freedom and liberty about vacinations and masks...oops we didnt quite get that right. My employer's biggest supplier (a Fortune 50 giant) has indicated it will be getting worse and anticipating lengthed supply chains and ongoing shortage of materials and the product they are providing has a high rejection rate. Hang in there, stay calm, manage what you can. Ed
We tend to forget and overlook that most all industries and other forms of employment that just a little over a year ago all those organization pared their their employment to the barest of bones - putting hundreds of thousands if not millions of employees on the unemployment rolls.
Then when it can time to recall the employees - Surprise Surprise - employees didn't want to return to the menial low paid positions that they had previously held - they found they could obtain higher paid positions elsewhere and not return to their old jobs.
My experience in the 21st Century that a employer is luck if they can get 20% of the work force they furloughed to return when they issue a recall. They also find out that all those jobs they thought didn't require any skills or training to perform effectivelly - do infact require skills and training, thus the 'body' that is hired has to undergo a period of training before they and become a productive employee.
Convicted OneBut lately I've found those metal roofing systems quite attractive. Thanks for adding a practical dimension.
What happens when they start to rust?
Electroliner 1935 Convicted One But lately I've found those metal roofing systems quite attractive. Thanks for adding a practical dimension.
Convicted One But lately I've found those metal roofing systems quite attractive. Thanks for adding a practical dimension.
More supply chain problems. Orlando is running short of liquid oxygen for the hospitals . It also uses liquid o2 for water treatmet . Orlando utilities requesting residents to cut back on water useage. Probably for at less several weeks.
Orlando residents urged to cut back on water use amid shortage of liquid oxygen as Covid increases in Florida - LOVEBYLIFE
More supply chain problems. Orlando is running short of liquid oxygen for the hospitals . It also uses liquid o2 for water treatmet . Orlando utilities requesting residents to cut back on water useage. Probably for at least several weeks.
Orlando Residents Asked to Limit Water Usage as Virus Surges - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Electroliner 1935 Convicted One But lately I've found those metal roofing systems quite attractive. Thanks for adding a practical dimension. What happens when they start to rust?
Electroliner 1935What happens when they start to rust?
Blame it on your customers, like everything else.
MP173 "Wanna get away?" Sounds like it would be a great idea!...except that airline (Southwest) has huge issues. Not enough employees, high demand for service, and very disgrunted employees. Oh, they are not alone...other airlines have cancelled flights also. Hmm, probably the fault of the railroads! If they would just run a few more passenger trains this problem would go away! Or not.
There are a few people on this board, that if given the chance, would place blame on the freight railroads for it. That is what they do, even under their old screen names.
Good for the UP for reopening Global 3, it will help. I have heard that they delayed the closing of Canal Street, although I don't have confirmation on that. CSX, as I posted earlier, has started using Forrest Hill again, a "ramp" that has been closed for 20 plus years. Unfortunately that is a short term solution, as the grade separation project at 75th street will no longer permit access to it.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 Good for the UP for reopening Global 3, it will help. I have heard that they delayed the closing of Canal Street, although I don't have confirmation on that. CSX, as I posted earlier, has started using Forrest Hill again, a "ramp" that has been closed for 20 plus years. Unfortunately that is a short term solution, as the grade separation project at 75th street will no longer permit access to it.
Canal St. is closed. Earlier this month was the last time I was through there. It was being used to store autoracks.
While the railroads aren't completely blameless, they also aren't the only piece of the puzzle. I feel the railroad's "pointing the finger" at others is both reaction and proaction on their parts to having the fingers pointed at them. With a lot of calls by shipper's groups for reregulation, blaming the railroads is just more ammunition for their argument.
So you know the railroads would have to answer the challange. In reality, it probably doesn't matter what either side says. In all things that hint of politics, usually most people already have their minds made up.
Is it possible that each of the outfits tried to wait out the others and not bite the bullet ? IMO each business shoud have called a meet and discussed short mitigations. It is going to take effort of each to partially solve these problems.
A couple items that occured today. Went into local tractor supply and the were being overloaded with just delivered inventory. An inquiry found out imvertory was supposed to go to several stores but distributor TT dumped all into the one store which is going to have to distribute it to stores in area.
2nd went into local Home Depot. Found empty shelves for some items and over stocked of other items. They had no idea when a couple items needed would come in . Not available in other stores within 40 - 50 miles.
In times of hardship, you either adapt, or perish. No real mystery there. I've learned to do without or have found suitable substitutes for most of the items I'm finding in chronic short supply. And if some of those products never come back, I'll be fine.
Clearly at least some of those shortages are a result of decisions to off-shore the source, and manage overly long supply chains through "timely" re-ordering, and now those folks who grew dependant upon everything going right to make that model work are finding those buzzards are now coming home to roost in the beds they've made for themselves. (love mixed metaphors)
That's a beauty!!
"As thou soweth, so shall thou weepeth!" [a lame MM.]
When Balt insists that all involved parties share in the blame, I agree with him particularly in the context of producers who decided they could spike the ball by cutting the American worker out of the picture via outsourcing their production. If their dependence upon everything going right is now causing them grief, perhaps they should have had a contingency plan?
Convicted One When Balt insists that all involved parties share in the blame, I agree with him particularly in the context of producers who decided they could spike the ball by cutting the American worker out of the picture via outsourcing their production. If their dependence upon everything going right is now causing them grief, perhaps they should have had a contingency plan?
This is where unbridled vulture capitalists kill the goose that laid a once-upon-a time Golden Egg.
Regretfully a link to the "Freightwaves" article is not at hand...just read it during lunch, but to summarize:
International shipments became so inconsistent for delivery that more and more logistics companies routed their shipments by air cargo. Makes sense. Now, the international air cargo system is so overwhelmed at O'hare/chicago that containers of air cargo are often waiting weeks to be unloaded. Why? Few warehousemen to unload plus +20% increase year to year increase in inbound cargo.
The result is that logistics companies are going into the facilities armed with trucks, fork lifts, and cash (yes cash to bribe employees to search for their cargo). The logicistcs companies will then take their cargo and be on their way.
Other companies are realizing they need to ship either full air containers or pay for full air containers as the mixed freight containers are lower priority.
Meanwhile, the domestic parcel companies (FedX, UPS, and regionals) are limiting number of packages their customers can ship...in addition to adding surcharges for residential deliveries. These surcharges will increase up to $5.00 per package by end of November.
I searched for an app showing container ships awaiting unloading...couldnt find one.
That is today's Logistics Update.
MP173Meanwhile, the domestic parcel companies (FedX, UPS, and regionals) are limiting number of packages their customers can ship...in addition to adding surcharges for residential deliveries. These surcharges will increase up to $5.00 per package by end of November.
That would seem to be kryptonite for Amazon?
Convicted One MP173 Meanwhile, the domestic parcel companies (FedX, UPS, and regionals) are limiting number of packages their customers can ship...in addition to adding surcharges for residential deliveries. These surcharges will increase up to $5.00 per package by end of November. That would seem to be kryptonite for Amazon?
More and more, Amazon is handling their own last mile deliveries using their own personnel and vehicles, especially near cities where they have setup distribution centers. Seeing their containers on intermodal trains is also becoming more common.
Amazon is really sticking it to the drivers on local delivery. It contracts the service to local firms who lease the trucks from Amazon and hire the drivers. Routing of the drivers tends to involve a lot of backtracking and other inefficiencies.
Amazon is having the same supply chain issues for vans, trucks, and trailers.
Their capex plans for this year are simply a dream. Equipment is not available.
CSSHEGEWISCH Amazon is really sticking it to the drivers on local delivery. It contracts the service to local firms who lease the trucks from Amazon and hire the drivers. Routing of the drivers tends to involve a lot of backtracking and other inefficiencies.
CSSHEGEWISCHRouting of the drivers tends to involve a lot of backtracking and other inefficiencies.
I've heard that one of the package companies insists on right turns only, as left turns usually involve some waiting, ie, wasted time. Of course, that applies in the city. Out here in the sticks, "around the block" might mean a dozen miles or more...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 CSSHEGEWISCH Routing of the drivers tends to involve a lot of backtracking and other inefficiencies. I've heard that one of the package companies insists on right turns only, as left turns usually involve some waiting, ie, wasted time. Of course, that applies in the city. Out here in the sticks, "around the block" might mean a dozen miles or more...
CSSHEGEWISCH Routing of the drivers tends to involve a lot of backtracking and other inefficiencies.
I believe UPS delivery drivers have their routes determined by the delivery addresses of all the packages that get loaded on their vehicles. Three rights to make a left is programmed into the route.
I see the FedEx truck driving in both directions on my street; the UPS truck only drives in one direction.
I could be wrong.
BaltACDI see the FedEx truck driving in both directions on my street; the UPS truck only drives in one direction.
And it's a one-way street!
BackshopThe .gov is starting to crack down on this whole fake "contractor" thing. Of course, if you donate enough to campaigns, you can get away with it, at least for awhile.
But something something capitalism something something!
Backshop Is it just me or does it seem like teenagers don't work anymore? All the entry level jobs in fast food, etc., are being performed by "retired" people. That's not right. You build many lifelong job skills in your first job.
I can't speak for all teenagers, but the two teenagers in my household work incredibly hard. My daughter has a a morning gig as a hostess in a breakfast place, and at night she's a hostess at the Keg.. And she's only 15. My son is in college and in his spare time (!) he does programming and has several other side hustles going on all at once. I see that their friends are all go getters too.. I think the future is in good hands!
zugmann BaltACD I see the FedEx truck driving in both directions on my street; the UPS truck only drives in one direction. And it's a one-way street!
BaltACD I see the FedEx truck driving in both directions on my street; the UPS truck only drives in one direction.
It is NOT a one way street. Its Two way suburban low density residential.
Many Teenagers are busy with extracurricular activity and sports in order to build a college enty resume. Aflent middle class parents give their kids debit cards with hundreds of dollars on them and those are linked to mom and dads credit. and checking. Thanks to planned parenting most wmc couples are waiting till 30 and 40 something to have kids and build a investment portfolio to pay for them. Plus they have access to bottomless credit which my Greatest Genetation WW2 parents never had
Ulrich Backshop Is it just me or does it seem like teenagers don't work anymore? All the entry level jobs in fast food, etc., are being performed by "retired" people. That's not right. You build many lifelong job skills in your first job. I can't speak for all teenagers, but the two teenagers in my household work incredibly hard. My daughter has a a morning gig as a hostess in a breakfast place, and at night she's a hostess at the Keg.. And she's only 15. My son is in college and in his spare time (!) he does programming and has several other side hustles going on all at once. I see that their friends are all go getters too.. I think the future is in good hands!
The reality is that each generation views its teenagers as lazy and good for nothing. That is one of the rewards of living beyond the teen years - the ability to critize teens.
Even the most sanctimonious among us were critized in the same way as we made our own journey through that teenage portal. Teens are easy targets.
They didn't have to walk to school each day in the snow. Uphill BOTH ways!!
UlrichI can't speak for all teenagers, but the two teenagers in my household work incredibly hard. My daughter has a a morning gig as a hostess in a breakfast place, and at night she's a hostess at the Keg.. And she's only 15. My son is in college and in his spare time (!) he does programming and has several other side hustles going on all at once. I see that their friends are all go getters too.. I think the future is in good hands!
Good parenting on your part.
rdamon They didn't have to walk to school each day in the snow. Uphill BOTH ways!!
rdamonThey didn't have to walk to school each day in the snow. Uphill BOTH ways!!
They will have when they start telling their kids their stories.
In junior high I actually did.
The village straddles the river. We lived atop one hill on the south side, the school was atop the hill on the north side. It was almost exactly a mile, and I did walk both ways (no buses for us kids living in the village!). Down the hill, over the river, and back up the other hill. We did use the bridge...
Rain, snow, sleet, hail. We all walked. No soccer moms in SUVs in those days.
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