Other railroads' locomotives

[BaltACD]

cv_acr

 

BaltACD

On Class 1's power is a commodity - it makes little difference whose name is on the power when power is needed. 

Some years ago, a CN engine that was temporarily leased to BNSF, went to NS on HPH repayment from BNSF, and ended up on an NS train that operated over trackage rights on CN in Canada...  

An interesting case study in how this all works. A CN engine on CN rails but not not remotely in CN's accounts.

Horsepower Hour accounts utilize the data each carriers Car and Train Movement systems send to the AAR's RaiLinc computer system to track the interchange of locomotives and calculating the Horsepower Hours.  When engines are INTERCHANGED back to the owner they return to the owner's HpH account.  If the engine is being operated in a Trackage Rights train over the owner's rail, the engine remains in the HpH account of the carrier using the Trackage Rights.

[cv_acr]

BaltACD

On Class 1's power is a commodity - it makes little difference whose name is on the power when power is needed.

Some years ago, a CN engine that was temporarily leased to BNSF, went to NS on HPH repayment from BNSF, and ended up on an NS train that operated over trackage rights on CN in Canada...  

An interesting case study in how this all works. A CN engine on CN rails but not not remotely in CN's accounts.

[cv_acr]

The red AWVR units were CP units - they were repainted back to CP colours after the movie filming was done. But they could be identified as the yellow striping on the plow (not CP standard) remained on at least one of the units.

[samfp1943]

[quote user="BaltACD"]Trains.com [/quote

BaltACD

"...On Class 1's power is a commodity - it makes little difference whose name is on the power when power is needed..."

When I was working and able to access the Locomotive Management computer application for CSX - Generally - there were as many CSX engines off line to the various carriers as there were foreign carriers locomotives be used on CSX at any given point in time.

The Class 1's know where the locomotives are.

]    Sort of inline withBalt's first paragraph(?)  Anyone recall the movie "Unstopable"... It utilized four-AC44,000's painted for the fictional line "AWVR" ... So0me time back there was a comment in this FORUM that at least one or more(?) ere being operated by Class1's in their movie paint schemes(?) .

  I believe in the last few months. I've seen at least one, being utlized by BNSF on trains through here in So Central Ks.  One was through here today;,runninn second out on a westbound merchandise train.   Could not catch the number of the power, but that paint scheme, still, is almost unmistakable..

Photo linked[ to show [paint scheme]

@ https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=309660

[BaltACD]

On Class 1's power is a commodity - it makes little difference whose name is on the power when power is needed.

When I was working and able to access the Locomotive Management computer application for CSX - Generally - there were as many CSX engines off line to the various carriers as there were foreign carriers locomotives be used on CSX at any given point in time.

The Class 1's know where the locomotives are.

[Vermontanan2]

tree68

I'm probably off by a mile or three, but 4400-ish, or better than twelve a day.

Not that this means anything, but in my previous life managing the locomotive power for BNSF in South Dakota, the maximum would be 2-3 unit trains per day.  Of course this fluctuated on a day-to-day basis, and it should be noted that probably not all the product was shipped by rail, and not all rail shipments went in unit trains.

--Mark Meyer

[Vermontanan2]

BaltACD

Foreign power coming onto a carrier - for the most part is used just like it was system power unless and until it is either either due for its 92 day Quarterly Inspection or 'the powers that be' decree that foreign power must be sent off line because excessive horsepower hours are being accumulated.

Suspect the RCP&E somewhere on their system has some kind of run through train(s) with connecting Class 1's.

In my baileywick - CSX gets grain trains from the BNSF that are destined to Winchester, VA on the Shenandoah Sub.  The trains arrive Brunswick with BNSF power on the East (lead) end of the train.  To go to Winchester CSX power is put on the West (lead) end of the train for the trip to and from Winchester.  While the train is away from Brunswick, CSX uses the BNSF power for whatever its needs are at Brunswick - working on a Brunswick Yard Job, working one of the local road switchers out of Brunswick or working the occasional manned helper assignment out of Brunswick.  When the grain empties arrive back in Brunswick the BNSF power is attached to the West (lead) end of the 'grain worm' for it to return to the BNSF.

This CSX example is not what is occurring on the RCP&E.  With a couple (maybe even just one) exceptions, BNSF has horsepower hours agreements only with Class I railroads.  For shortlines, the power is considered as though BNSF owns the origin and destination.  On shortlines, BNSF power runs through to destination and there are no horsepower hours charges as is the case with Class I railroads, so BNSF is pretty much at the mercy of the shortline was to when the power will come back.  90% of the shortlines I have dealt with are really good about expediting the power back, and much of the time it's returning with a corresponding outbound train.  But whether the power is offline to the RCP&E 12 hours or 12 days, the RCP&E wouldn't assume a monetary penalty.

It's the exact opposite in the Winchester grain train scenario.  In that case, the BNSF locomotives go on the clock to CSX (about $1300 a day or so for a 4400 HP locomotive) at interchange, which in this case was probably Chicago.  So CSX is pays HPH to BNSF all the time that BNSF locomotives are on CSX regardless of what they're doing:  In this case, whether the power at Brunswick just sat there until the empties returned from Winchester or was used elsewhere.  The only thing that changes the cost is how long the locomotives are anywhere doing anything on CSX.

And while it is indeed a noble cause to keep the BNSF power on a train going back to the BNSF when emptied, this is far from always the case.  Not unusual at all for BNSF grain empties from CSX to be received at Chicago with CSX power with the original BNSF power showing up on something else (and even somewhere else).  The power on coal trains interchanged to railroads like CSX and NS at Chicago usually does return on the corresponding empties and these trains usually unload right away and cycle back immediately for another load.  But trains with other commodities....well, not as much.  Locomotive failures, diversions, delays:  They all contribute to the locomotive mix for a consist at interchange.

--Mark Meyer

[Vermontanan2]

Murphy Siding

     Recently I've seen foreign power somewhere that didn't seem right- on the Rapid City, Pierre & Eastern (former DM&E) owned by Genese & Wyoming. A couple weeks back I caught 3 big BNSF engines running light-and fast- at the far western part of the line in Minnesota. 

Most likely a set of power going to or returning from the Valero facility in Aurora, South Dakota.  BNSF provides the power on the RCP&E, and the trains are interchanged to BNSF at Florence, MN (FRA Jct. on RCP&E).  If an empty train arrives in Aurora and no outbound loaded train is planned in the immediate future, BNSF will request that RCP&E return the power to Florence; When a train is loaded at Aurora and the cars didn't arrive on a very recent inbound empties train with power still there, then BNSF will set out a set of power at Florence for RCP&E to take light to Aurora.

--Mark Meyer

[CShaveRR]

Using 30000 gallons/tank, 100 cars per train, it comes pretty close to 4500.

[tree68]

Murphy Siding

Anybody care to figure how many unit trains that would be?

I'm probably off by a mile or three, but 4400-ish, or better than twelve a day.

[Murphy Siding]

jeffhergert

I think there are a couple of ethanol plants on the RCP&E.  The class one power might be from ethanol trains to/from those plants. 

While the train is loading, the RCP&E could be borrowing the power for other things.  Even the class ones will do this.  

Jeff  

 

I think you're onto something. There's an ethanol plant 3 miles down the pike from where I saw the locomotive.  It produces 120 million gallons a year.

Going down that rabbit hole, I learned that SD produces 13.5 billion gallons of ethanol a year. Anybody care to figure how many unit trains that would be?

[Murphy Siding]

zugmann

 

 

Murphy Siding

      Is it possible that RCP&E is leasing power from 2 Class 1's? RCP&E and BNSF interchange somewhere along the way, but NS is probably 4-500 miles away.

 

 

Curious on a engine number.  NS sold a lot of engines last couple of years and didn't even bother painting out their logos before sending them out the door. 

 

 

I never thought to look at the number. I was just enjoying my once every five years look at a NS locomotive. I'll have to poke around next time I'm through Brookings. I thought G&W painted everything orange and yellow as soon as they got the keys. I know the DM&E colors disappeared fast.

[jeffhergert]

I think there are a couple of ethanol plants on the RCP&E.  The class one power might be from ethanol trains to/from those plants. 

While the train is loading, the RCP&E could be borrowing the power for other things.  Even the class ones will do this.  

Jeff  

[zugmann]

Murphy Siding

      Is it possible that RCP&E is leasing power from 2 Class 1's? RCP&E and BNSF interchange somewhere along the way, but NS is probably 4-500 miles away.

Curious on a engine number.  NS sold a lot of engines last couple of years and didn't even bother painting out their logos before sending them out the door. 

 

[BaltACD]

Murphy Siding

     I mostly understand pooled power, run throughs, etc. I thought those were things done mostly by Class 1's and on major lines.

     Recently I've seen foreign power somewhere that didn't seem right- on the Rapid City, Pierre & Eastern (former DM&E) owned by Genese & Wyoming. A couple weeks back I caught 3 big BNSF engines running light-and fast- at the far western part of the line in Minnesota. Saturday, I watched a NS locomotive working what looked to be a local at Brookings, S.D., near the far east end of the line in that state.

      Is it possible that RCP&E is leasing power from 2 Class 1's? RCP&E and BNSF interchange somewhere along the way, but NS is probably 4-500 miles away.

Anything is possible.

Foreign power coming onto a carrier - for the most part is used just like it was system power unless and until it is either either due for its 92 day Quarterly Inspection or 'the powers that be' decree that foreign power must be sent off line because excessive horsepower hours are being accumulated.

Suspect the RCP&E somewhere on their system has some kind of run through train(s) with connecting Class 1's.

In my baileywick - CSX gets grain trains from the BNSF that are destined to Winchester, VA on the Shenandoah Sub.  The trains arrive Brunswick with BNSF power on the East (lead) end of the train.  To go to Winchester CSX power is put on the West (lead) end of the train for the trip to and from Winchester.  While the train is away from Brunswick, CSX uses the BNSF power for whatever its needs are at Brunswick - working on a Brunswick Yard Job, working one of the local road switchers out of Brunswick or working the occasional manned helper assignment out of Brunswick.  When the grain empties arrive back in Brunswick the BNSF power is attached to the West (lead) end of the 'grain worm' for it to return to the BNSF.

[Murphy Siding]

     I mostly understand pooled power, run throughs, etc. I thought those were things done mostly by Class 1's and on major lines.

     Recently I've seen foreign power somewhere that didn't seem right- on the Rapid City, Pierre & Eastern (former DM&E) owned by Genese & Wyoming. A couple weeks back I caught 3 big BNSF engines running light-and fast- at the far western part of the line in Minnesota. Saturday, I watched a NS locomotive working what looked to be a local at Brookings, S.D., near the far east end of the line in that state.

      Is it possible that RCP&E is leasing power from 2 Class 1's? RCP&E and BNSF interchange somewhere along the way, but NS is probably 4-500 miles away.