In line with Balt's comment; one cardinal personal rule I had with respect to use of interswitching at our Canadian plants was analogous to several previous comments about who signs your paycheck. I counseled our folks to never forget whose name is on the locomotives that switch your site. Reciprocal or interswitching is most effective when it's used to keep in check the natural aggressive tendencies of Class 1 railroads. It serves as a reminder that you have options and makes them more inclined to treat you as a valued customer. But, you still have to keep your switching carrier interested by awarding them a volume of linehaul traffic that keeps them in the game.
Use of the reciprocal switching / interswitching tool is a balancing act.
CW
blue streak 1A real worry. If RR A makes a reciprocal pick up agreement with owning RR B. What happens when RR B conviently says switching crew is always running out of HOS so cannot pick up on contracted day ?
The intent of reciprocal switching is that the company being switched supplies traffic to both roads A & B. Playing around with the switches may also disadvantage road A as well as B. Of course in the world of PSR, road A may want to run off the company being reciprocally switched and doesn't care about switching for either their own or B's account.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
A real worry. If RR A makes a reciprocal pick up agreement with owning RR B. What happens when RR B conviently says switching crew is always running out of HOS so cannot pick up on contracted day ?
Wilner's UTU got decertified in Canada after they took CN's side during our 2007 strike.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
jeffhergertFrank Wilner (Railway Age contributor and author) used to be on the side of labor, now he's on the side of management.
Anyone in the industry has seen plenty of people do a 180 in about 5 minutes when they take on the title of manager and don the button-down shirt.
It's all about who is signing the check. Just a modification on the world's oldest profession.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Jeff:
Your comment about Frank Wilner is spot on. I can remember when Frank was with the UTU.
In all honesty though, it would be a foolish person who isn't constantly aware of who issues their paycheck.
Juniata Man BaltACD Juniata Man PNWRMNM Heck Mac; the railroads have been picking shipper pockets since EHH hatched the psr egg. CW CW, Rail customers have been whining about 'too high' rail rates since the day the B&O opened its line to Ellicot City. Mac LOL! Mac, the folks at the AAR must love you. ;-) CW Shippers have always felt there should be 'Free Shipping'. Since the dawn of time.
BaltACD Juniata Man PNWRMNM Heck Mac; the railroads have been picking shipper pockets since EHH hatched the psr egg. CW CW, Rail customers have been whining about 'too high' rail rates since the day the B&O opened its line to Ellicot City. Mac LOL! Mac, the folks at the AAR must love you. ;-) CW
Juniata Man PNWRMNM Heck Mac; the railroads have been picking shipper pockets since EHH hatched the psr egg. CW CW, Rail customers have been whining about 'too high' rail rates since the day the B&O opened its line to Ellicot City. Mac
PNWRMNM Heck Mac; the railroads have been picking shipper pockets since EHH hatched the psr egg. CW
Heck Mac; the railroads have been picking shipper pockets since EHH hatched the psr egg.
CW,
Rail customers have been whining about 'too high' rail rates since the day the B&O opened its line to Ellicot City.
Mac
LOL! Mac, the folks at the AAR must love you. ;-)
Shippers have always felt there should be 'Free Shipping'. Since the dawn of time.
And railroads have been gouging since the beginning too. Frankly, this is a circular argument and ones position on the matter is based on whether they were a railroader or shipper although, as I've mentioned previously, I knew a lot of former railroaders who moved over to the shipper side and suddenly saw their former industry in a whole new light.
[/quote]
Well of course when you work for a new employer you'll be seeing things there way.
Frank Wilner (Railway Age contributor and author) used to be on the side of labor, now he's on the side of management. The late John Norwood (DRGW employee and author of narrow gauge books) said after he retired he used his knowledge to fight against railroad abandonments instead of fighting for them when he was working.
It'll all come down to who can buy (rent?) the most congress people.
Jeff
CW[/quote]
PNWRMNM Lithonia Operator I guess I still don't get the problem reciprocal switching solves, and how it solves it. In is very simple, the shippers want to expand reciprocal switching limits to create more opportunities for themselves to beat down railroad rates. It is simply an attempt by the shippers to reach into the railroad's pockets. Part of the story they don't mention is that the switching charges would be regulated, held down, to help make this steal work. Mac
Lithonia Operator I guess I still don't get the problem reciprocal switching solves, and how it solves it.
In is very simple, the shippers want to expand reciprocal switching limits to create more opportunities for themselves to beat down railroad rates. It is simply an attempt by the shippers to reach into the railroad's pockets.
Part of the story they don't mention is that the switching charges would be regulated, held down, to help make this steal work.
What we have are Monopolies having a urination contest. The ones crying the loudest are the ones that tend of have a monopoly in their business area and they are complaining that they have to deal with a railroad that has a monopoly in serving them.
PNWRMNM Lithonia Operator I guess I still don't get the problem reciprocal switching solves, and how it solves it. In is very simple, the shippers want to expand reciprocal switching limits to create more opportunities for themselves to beat down railroad rates. It is simply an attempt by the shippers to reach into the railroad's pockets. Part of the story they don't mention is that the switching charges would be regulated, held down, to help make this steal work. Mac Mac
Lithonia OperatorI guess I still don't get the problem reciprocal switching solves, and how it solves it.
MWHA handles the "last mile" into the Griffiss Business Park, saving CSX the need to serve it. CSX drops to and picks up from MWHA's Utica yard and MWHA shuttles the cars between Utica and Rome on the CSX main.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Lithonia Operator So in my example, couldn't Acme just route the cars over #1 for those 20 miles, then on #2 for the rest of the way? Wouldn't that be an everyday situation and interchange? I guess I still don't get the problem reciprocal switching solves, and how it solves it. Is 20 miles too short to be considered a haul? I doubt that; I just have to consider Strasburg Rail Road as an originator of traffic. Or is SRR actually doing reciprocal switching for NS, who has trackage rights on Amtrak ... ?
So in my example, couldn't Acme just route the cars over #1 for those 20 miles, then on #2 for the rest of the way? Wouldn't that be an everyday situation and interchange?
I guess I still don't get the problem reciprocal switching solves, and how it solves it.
Is 20 miles too short to be considered a haul? I doubt that; I just have to consider Strasburg Rail Road as an originator of traffic. Or is SRR actually doing reciprocal switching for NS, who has trackage rights on Amtrak ... ?
If both railroads would agree to a line haul with interchange, yes it could be done. They have to agree on where to interchange and a division of the line haul revenue.
Reciprocal switching gives one railroad the entire line haul revenue for the move. The physical railroad spotting/pulling the customer just gets a switching charge for doing so.
The link provided is to the Iowa Interstate's Switching Tariff. You'll probably need to download it to view it. When opened, go to Section 1 (page 6 of the document) and it lists the customers on IAIS trackage that's open to reciprocal switching to the various railroads listed at the locations. It also indicates the switching charge the IAIS will charge for move. Switching Tariff IAIS 8000 N Amendment 7 - Iowa Interstate Railroad, LLC (iaisrr.com)
In all likelihood, railroad 1 will want to maximize their linehaul before turning the car over to railroad 2 or, possibly, a third carrier that will handle to destination. And a revenue linehaul division will typically be considerably higher than a switch charge. I can't say this for certain but, I imagine NS handles the linehaul pricing and simply pays Strasburg a couple hundred bucks per car to switch it into their little transload terminal.
Still in training.
Lithonia OperatorSo does reciprocal switching under this plan look like this? Railroad #1 has Acme Steel as customer. Railroad #2 has connection to #1 twenty miles from Acme. Acme decides they want to ship via #2. This rule would REQUIRE #1 to grant trackage rights (for the purpose of serving Acme only) on those 20 miles of track, and the right to switch within the plant. And by some imposed formula, #1 would be compensated by #2 for these excursions. Right? If so, I am opposed.
Railroad #1 has Acme Steel as customer. Railroad #2 has connection to #1 twenty miles from Acme. Acme decides they want to ship via #2.
This rule would REQUIRE #1 to grant trackage rights (for the purpose of serving Acme only) on those 20 miles of track, and the right to switch within the plant. And by some imposed formula, #1 would be compensated by #2 for these excursions.
Right?
If so, I am opposed.
Note there is a difference between railroads having connections and having legally recognized interchanges.
Example - The legally recognized interchange between B&O/CSX and ConRail in Baltimore is Bayview. In addition to the official location at Bayview, there were physical connections at Mount Vernon Yard in Baltimore and at the Aikin area of Perryville, MD where there was a connection between B&O/CSX and CR's Port Road Branch that runs between Perryville and Harrisburg.
At Bayview the B&O Yard and Interchange Tracks are on the Westside of the then Contrail N-S multiple track Mains, with one track holding 45 cars and the other 30 cars. The CR Bayview Yard is on the Eastside of the CR Mains. The CR Main Tracks had to be utilized for CR to deliver to or pull from the Interchange tracks. In the middle 1970's CR coal mines got contracts to deliver Export coal trains (100 cars) to B&O's Curtis Bay Coal Pier. B&O & CR negotiated a 'local agreement' where the legal interchange would remain Bayview. CR would deliver the coal trains to their Mount Vernon Yard where B&O crews would then pull the trains to Curtis Bay. When the cars were empty B&O would assemble them in trains and pull them from Curtis Bay to Aikin and backing them down the connection track to the Port Road.
I might add that the legal interchange was being fully utilized with normal 'merchandise' business.
Reciprocal Switching does not confer any oprating rights on another carrier.
Lithonia Operator So does reciprocal switching under this plan look like this? Railroad #1 has Acme Steel as customer. Railroad #2 has connection to #1 twenty miles from Acme. Acme decides they want to ship via #2. This rule would REQUIRE #1 to grant trackage rights (for the purpose of serving Acme only) on those 20 miles of track, and the right to switch within the plant. And by some imposed formula, #1 would be compensated by #2 for these excursions. Right? If so, I am opposed.
So does reciprocal switching under this plan look like this?
Not exactly. Using your example, railroad 1 will still switch Acme and pull the car. They will deliver the car to railroad 2 at the interchange. Railroad 2 will bill Acme the agreed upon linehaul rate. Acme will pay railroad 1 a switching charge for the move from their site to the interchange.
This differs from traditional reciprocal switching as well as interswitching in Canada where the switch charge is built into the linehaul rate railroad 2 will charge.
How the switch charge is handled may change as this process works through the STB.
Paul Milenkovic BaltACD Paul Milenkovic Juniata Man On model railroads; the rates are always rock bottom and the service first class! Don't need no stinking reciprocal switching! ;-) CW The rates may be rock bottom, but do model train operators always keep up with the operating session fast clock? Derailments can be frequent, but most model railroads have the graffiti situation under control? Model railroads don't have to call Hulcher or other contractors for their derailments - just the big hand of the operator. True, but if there are frequent derailments, a person hosting a model-train operating session at their layout suffers social embarrassment and loss-of-face with ones friends? Depending on the drop, some derailments can do serious damage to prized pieces of model rolling stock? Also, are "re-railing frogs" a thing of the past for low-speed derailments in yards on switches or sharp curves, or are cranes called out in every instance?
BaltACD Paul Milenkovic Juniata Man On model railroads; the rates are always rock bottom and the service first class! Don't need no stinking reciprocal switching! ;-) CW The rates may be rock bottom, but do model train operators always keep up with the operating session fast clock? Derailments can be frequent, but most model railroads have the graffiti situation under control? Model railroads don't have to call Hulcher or other contractors for their derailments - just the big hand of the operator.
Paul Milenkovic Juniata Man On model railroads; the rates are always rock bottom and the service first class! Don't need no stinking reciprocal switching! ;-) CW The rates may be rock bottom, but do model train operators always keep up with the operating session fast clock? Derailments can be frequent, but most model railroads have the graffiti situation under control?
Juniata Man On model railroads; the rates are always rock bottom and the service first class! Don't need no stinking reciprocal switching! ;-) CW
On model railroads; the rates are always rock bottom and the service first class! Don't need no stinking reciprocal switching! ;-)
The rates may be rock bottom, but do model train operators always keep up with the operating session fast clock?
Derailments can be frequent, but most model railroads have the graffiti situation under control?
Model railroads don't have to call Hulcher or other contractors for their derailments - just the big hand of the operator.
True, but if there are frequent derailments, a person hosting a model-train operating session at their layout suffers social embarrassment and loss-of-face with ones friends? Depending on the drop, some derailments can do serious damage to prized pieces of model rolling stock?
Also, are "re-railing frogs" a thing of the past for low-speed derailments in yards on switches or sharp curves, or are cranes called out in every instance?
In 1:1 scale railroading -
That I am aware of the 3 hour Arbitrary payment for crews rerailing cars they derailed no longer exists. Pictures from the steam era tend to show tenders being equipped with rerailing frogs - pictures of diesels of that era and of today do not tend to show them carrying rerailing frogs. Rerailing frogs still exist and are in the hands of Car Dept, they also weigh in the neighborhood of 80-100 pounds and are very awkward for men to handle, personnel who respond to all reported derailments - large and small. That I am aware of, no Class 1 carrier still have 'the big hook' wrecking cranes on their property. Third Party contractors are called for all but the simplest of derailments.
On CSX, when I was working, the Headquarters mechanical personnel in Jacksonville would order the off track contractors upon the initial notification of a derailment without waiting to hear from the local mechanical department employees arriving on the scene of the derailment.
(1) The train crew is not re-railing their mistake (and not reporting it)
(2) The train crew is rules compliant on both railroads and knows the territory?
(3) The rerailing frogs (and wood blocks) generally are in the possession of the mechanical department, understaffed and many miles away. Then there is the issue of damaging more track as they drag things up and destroy more track (suddenly exceeding the threshold of FRA reportable ... which they always object to ) .... a CAT 980 or 988 loader is preferred to a crane or the damned side-boom tracked CATs that tear up even more track.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
jeffhergert Reciprocal switching is not new. It goes back before railroad deregulation when rates were overseen by the ICC. Jeff
Reciprocal switching is not new. It goes back before railroad deregulation when rates were overseen by the ICC.
I would like to see Model Railroader run an article or a column on how reciprocal switching could be incorporated into a model train layout operating session.
In addition to persons serving as "road crews" and "switching crews" and "dispatchers", you could add to the fun of model train operation by having some of your friends serve as "attorneys" and "STB administrators" working out the details of reciprocal switching on your pike?
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