Euphemisms, spin and newspeak abound
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/norfolk-southern-executive-says-one-person-crew-is-a-misnomer/
Next step: autonomous trains, read: crewless
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/union-pacific-says-autonomous-trains-are-the-answer-to-driverless-trucks/
Quote from the article that mirrors many comments from the real railroaders here:
“Carriers’ visions of one-person crews provide no solution to the shortcomings of technologies such as Positive Train Control and Trip Optimizer/Leader or to the business practices the Class I’s have largely chosen to pursue,” Ferguson [of the union] says.
Be interesting to see the practical logistics involved in the 'superconductor' position. Bet a few of the management types have been eagerly following the Gravity belt developments! Can it be long before there are handholds atop the cab for arriving conductors, right next to the drone garages?
Well, we've wanted that future since Commander Cody days, so I suppose we shouldn't complain when it's shoved at us...
So U.P. plans on one ground roving conductor in charge of several autonomous trains with no human engineers. This will abruptly end the era of monster trains and their broken knuckles, which will be good news to the roving conductors. This will be the ultimate solution to the war between labor and management over crew size. It will also be the ultimate solution to the crew fatigue problem by allowing the roving conductors to rove closer to home, so they can sleep at home every night. It will also usher in the era of short, fast, and frequent trains with their agility and flexibility to live up to the true implication of Precision Scheduled Railroading. Finally all the pieces fall into place.
You forgot the "/s"
What cracks me up is the whole "this will solve crew fatigue problem!". Yeah, for the conductor. What about the guy actually running the train? He's still goign to the flea bag hotel, is on call, etc....
I mean, I hope these roving utilities are figured in future contract so we with more seniority get first crack at them.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann What cracks me up is the whole "this will solve crew fatigue problem!". Yeah, for the conductor. What about the guy actually running the train? He's still goign to the flea bag hotel, is on call, etc....
I am referring to the U.P. They say they will move to autonomous trains and roving conductors. So there won’t be any engineers to be away from home and staying in hotels. No more hotels, and no more fatigue. Just one conductor on the ground managing several nimble, tiny trains.
I have a bridge to sell you.
zugmann I have a bridge to sell you.
It sounds like the bridge has already been bought by U.P.
EuclidIt sounds like the bridge has already been bought by U.P.
Yeah, and we wer going to have flying cars and nuclear power would give us "energy too cheap to meter". People like believing in stories.
zugmann Euclid It sounds like the bridge has already been bought by U.P. Yeah, and we wer going to have flying cars and nuclear power would give us "energy too cheap to meter". People like believing in stories.
Euclid It sounds like the bridge has already been bought by U.P.
My opinion is that railroads are facing an existential threat right now from autonmous trucks. They had better start trying new things. Therefore, I welcome experimentation with one man crews.
EuclidYes, just like the new diesel-electric locomotives. "They may be okay for yard switching, but not for pulling trains on the mainline."
I mean, there's AI bots for posting to forums. We aren't even needed.
Although sometimes I wonder if you aren't a AI bot. The Euclid2000.. increase forum participation with this one trick!
zugmann Euclid Yes, just like the new diesel-electric locomotives. "They may be okay for yard switching, but not for pulling trains on the mainline." I mean, there's AI bots for posting to forums. We aren't even needed. Although sometimes I wonder if you aren't a AI bot. The Euclid2000.. increase forum participation with this one trick!
Euclid Yes, just like the new diesel-electric locomotives. "They may be okay for yard switching, but not for pulling trains on the mainline."
No, I think AI is overpromised. And I don't want to go to Mars.
You all realize this is not just some visionary plan from OM or some other guy who can look to the future. These notions are plans from our largest railroad. Good for customers, good for the railroads; early retirement for operating crews.
zugmannWhat cracks me up is the whole "this will solve crew fatigue problem!". Yeah, for the conductor. What about the guy actually running the train? He's still goign to the flea bag hotel, is on call, etc....
Why does the engineer have to be on the train? He/she could be remote.
Just log on from home at say, 7:00 AM. Do whatever needs to be done until 3:00 PM and then pass off the work to the next shift.
Euclid So U.P. plans on one ground roving conductor in charge of several autonomous trains with no human engineers. This will abruptly end the era of monster trains and their broken knuckles, which will be good news to the roving conductors. This will be the ultimate solution to the war between labor and management over crew size. It will also be the ultimate solution to the crew fatigue problem by allowing the roving conductors to rove closer to home, so they can sleep at home every night. It will also usher in the era of short, fast, and frequent trains with their agility and flexibility to live up to the true implication of Precision Scheduled Railroading. Finally all the pieces fall into place.
No it won't. Trains size will not be reduced under automonous operation. Even with a "crewless" train you'll want to keep economies of scale in your favor to remain in competition..
EuclidNo, I think AI is overpromised.
That's what an AI would say! We're onto you Euclid2000!
greyhoundsWhy does the engineer have to be on the train? He/she could be remote.
Why wouldn't we just do that with trucks?
charlie hebdoYou all realize this is not just some visionary plan from OM or some other guy who can look to the future. These notions are plans from our largest railroad. Good for customers, good for the railroads; early retirement for operating crews.
Or just feely-good stuff to please stockhodlers that will not be implemented in our lifetimes.
zugmann Why wouldn't we just do that with trucks?
It could happen.
Trip Op still needs a lot of support from its meatbag 'training wheels', I can't see it running all by itself anytime soon.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD60MAC9500 Euclid So U.P. plans on one ground roving conductor in charge of several autonomous trains with no human engineers. This will abruptly end the era of monster trains and their broken knuckles, which will be good news to the roving conductors. This will be the ultimate solution to the war between labor and management over crew size. It will also be the ultimate solution to the crew fatigue problem by allowing the roving conductors to rove closer to home, so they can sleep at home every night. It will also usher in the era of short, fast, and frequent trains with their agility and flexibility to live up to the true implication of Precision Scheduled Railroading. Finally all the pieces fall into place. No it won't. Trains size will not be reduced under automonous operation. Even with a "crewless" train you'll want to keep economies of scale in your favor to remain in competition..
The only economy of scale for monster trains is moving more cars per crew cost. Otherwise, monster trains cost more to operate due to more mechanical problems and delays. So, if you reduce or eliminate the crew, economic advantage of monster trains drops. If it drops low enough to not be able to offset the added cost of breakdowns and delays of monster trains, there will likely be no economic advantage to running them. Then too, the railroads will be in sharp competition with trucking with its fundamentally quicker delivery. If railroads want to take business from trucking, they will have to speed up their service. Monster trains slow down service.
I had to pull on hip waders to get through the BS about improving the quality of the job for the employee.
The only people who will see an improved work environment are the C Suite folks with stock options.
I will go to my grave believing one man crews and (for the benefit of our trucking fan boy on here) autonomous trucks are a lousy idea and detract from safe operations.
CW
I will only say this. If I were a 32 year old engineer, I would not plan on another 30+ years in that line of work.
charlie hebdo I will only say this. If I were a 32 year old engineer, I would not plan on another 30+ years in that line of work.
True for any profession anymore.
greyhoundsWhy does the engineer have to be on the train? He/she could be remote. Just log on from home at say, 7:00 AM. Do whatever needs to be done until 3:00 PM and then pass off the work to the next shift.
Incidentally that vision also specifically includes a trained conductor as 'the single man' crew on each separate train. And as the rapid-response 'first responder' in an emergent situation with any full-autonomous level 4 or better train, in the absence of dedicated response (which cheap PSR financier management will nearly always deprecate).
Overmod greyhounds Why does the engineer have to be on the train? He/she could be remote. Just log on from home at say, 7:00 AM. Do whatever needs to be done until 3:00 PM and then pass off the work to the next shift. It is not quite that simple, and some of the very simplest things that have to be provided or assured are among the most expensive. Nonetheless it's the 'vision' I have supported since the '80s and continue to support. PM me for details if it interests you. Incidentally that vision also specifically includes a trained conductor as 'the single man' crew on each separate train. And as the rapid-response 'first responder' in an emergent situation with any full-autonomous level 4 or better train, in the absence of dedicated response (which cheap PSR financier management will nearly always deprecate).
greyhounds Why does the engineer have to be on the train? He/she could be remote. Just log on from home at say, 7:00 AM. Do whatever needs to be done until 3:00 PM and then pass off the work to the next shift.
It is not quite that simple, and some of the very simplest things that have to be provided or assured are among the most expensive. Nonetheless it's the 'vision' I have supported since the '80s and continue to support. PM me for details if it interests you.
Rapid Response is the joke of the 21st Century. One man, multiple locations at the same time. Remember, there are locations on most all territories where the only access is by rail. Or are the Rapid Response Conductors going to be hitched to a drone and sent to those inaccessable areas?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Remember, there are locations on most all territories where the only access is by rail. Or are the Rapid Response Conductors going to be hitched to a drone and sent to those inaccessable areas?
Well, I'd guess they would have a hy-rail vehicle.
greyhoundsWell, I'd guess they would have a hy-rail vehicle.
I'm holding out for my own helicopter.
PTI is the sky! I can go twice as high! take a look; it's in the rulebook!
(my apologies to Mr. Burton).
Zug - QNSL hires helicopters to fly you out if it really hits the fan. Why fly the chopper yourself when you can have a chauffeur too!?
greyhounds BaltACD Remember, there are locations on most all territories where the only access is by rail. Or are the Rapid Response Conductors going to be hitched to a drone and sent to those inaccessable areas? Well, I'd guess they would have a hy-rail vehicle.
Ah yes. Hi-rail to a 15K foot train that has gotten a knuckle in the middle of the train on single track between sidings that are 20 miles or more apart.
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