When i see a freight train with multiple units lets say gp38 with one or two gp9 or other types there are crew members sitting in the trailing engines .Why no room in the lead?
dh28473.Why no room in the lead?
COVID protocals. Plus those cabs get cramped real quick if you have more than 2 people.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
You may also be seeing deadheading crewmembers. Crews that are being transported between or to/from terminals.
We used to deadhead almost always by contract van. For the last month or two, almost all deadheading is being done by train. The operating ratio ticked up (very bad) so now they are cutting out as many contract vans as possible. They're running out of places to cut.
Jeff
jeffhergertYou may also be seeing deadheading crewmembers. Crews that are being transported between or to/from terminals. We used to deadhead almost always by contract van. For the last month or two, almost all deadheading is being done by train. The operating ratio ticked up (very bad) so now they are cutting out as many contract vans as possible. They're running out of places to cut. Jeff
Guess they don't intend to turn the crew right back on a train on continuous service. The also don't value have the crew rested multiple hours earlier by sending them by van.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
jeffhergertFor the last month or two, almost all deadheading is being done by train. The operating ratio ticked up (very bad) so now they are cutting out as many contract vans as possible. They're running out of places to cut.
If a crew takes their train all the way to their destination terminal, how is a "dead head" move back to their home terminal handled? Are they given a sleep period before deadheading back? Or are they put right back on a train and sent home without rest?
And if the latter, when does their rest period officially begin?
Given a choice, is there a particular type of locomotive that a deadheading crew would prefer to be riding in?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Convicted One jeffhergert For the last month or two, almost all deadheading is being done by train. The operating ratio ticked up (very bad) so now they are cutting out as many contract vans as possible. They're running out of places to cut. If a crew takes their train all the way to their destination terminal, how is a "dead head" move back to their home terminal handled? Are they given a sleep period before deadheading back? Or are they put right back on a train and sent home without rest? And if the latter, when does their rest period officially begin?
jeffhergert For the last month or two, almost all deadheading is being done by train. The operating ratio ticked up (very bad) so now they are cutting out as many contract vans as possible. They're running out of places to cut.
If a crew is "flipped" home because the away terminal has too many crews and not enough trains coming, they are supposed to tie up the train and be placed back on duty as a deadhead to be properly paid. (You don't have to be rested to deadhead, but it will count towards on duty time for HOS.) They have in the past just deadheaded home on continuous time, but that won't reflect the proper pay they should be getting.
If a crew takes 10 hours taking a train A to B and then deadheads back to A in 4 hours by van, they'll show 14 hours on duty, but only 10 hours as performing service. That is, there is no HOS violation. Rest time begins when the deadhead is tied up. Current law requires 10 hours plus one minute for every minute past 12 hours on duty undisturbed rest. That would require after the deadhead is done 12 hours undisturbed rest. The regular 10 hours plus the 2 hours over 12 being on duty.
Murphy Siding Given a choice, is there a particular type of locomotive that a deadheading crew would prefer to be riding in?
One that is running, even if off line, and has working heat or air conditioning as the season requires.
As the saying goes - It Depends
Some crew districts are short, some are long. Depending on the time a crew utilizes getting over the road on a short district, it may get turned WORKING a train back to their home terminal if they have sufficient HOS time remaining. Holding on to crews at AWFHT depends on the line of train coming that need protection. Even on short distance crew districts, some trains require a 12 hour fully rested crew to make it over the road with the train's known work load.
On long run crew districts, crew rarely arrive at AfHT with more than 3 hours of HOS time left.
When I was working DH on train was only a severe weather (SNOW) normality as the van company would shut down their operations. The only 'normal' deadheading of crews on arrival back home from AFHT would be leading up to a Holiday Shut Down.
When deadheading from HT, the time spent getting to the work site counts in the total of 12 hours HOS. If deadheading AFTER the HOS expires, that time in a van or on a train counts as 'Limbo Time' - as the crew are being paid for the time, however they are not 'On Duty'. There is a monthly limit on the amount of 'Limbo Time' crew members can accrew. The Limbo Time would be activated no matter if the crew was being deadheaded AFHT or getting off their HOS train at Middle Nowhere to go home or for that matter AFHT.
Rest periods begin when crews are at a Terminal and have registered 'Off Duty'. Crew Management records support the crew On Duty and Off Duty times.
Does "running but offline" mean that the engine is idling, and not set to respond to MU commands?
Still in training.
Lithonia Operator Does "running but offline" mean that the engine is idling, and not set to respond to MU commands?
Yes.
An isolated locomotive may autostop if the computer decides conditions allow allow this. There is a button you can push to prevent this for some time (30 minutes to two hours depending on the locomotive model).
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Thanks for your responses. I was hoping that time deadheading didn't count towards rest. But learning that it is paid time as well, is a surprise.
I'm surprised that some Hunter Harrison-like expert hasn't considered putting Amtrak style folding bunks in the trailing units, for double-teamed long distance runs?
Convicted OneThanks for your responses. I was hoping that time deadheading didn't count towards rest. But learning that it is paid time as well, is a surprise. I'm surprised that some Hunter Harrison-like expert hasn't considered putting Amtrak style folding bunks in the trailing units, for double-teamed long distance runs?
CSX, on my territory before EHH, used Amtrak as the transportation medium in deadheading crews between Richmond and Philadelphia, rather than using the contract van service. The Division Manager considered it a Safety Issue.
And, while thinking about it, I don;t know how you guys cope with the ever present uncertainty of the crew call.
I've worked 32 hour shifts at times. Worked weeks where 18 hour days would be a goal for only if everything went "right", and even gone out of town on assignment when there was no guaranteed date of completion of my task. But in each instance I at least had some certainty that whatever anomaly would eventually conclude, and that life back to normal was an inevitability, eventually.
The thought that every day when you leave work, you are as likely as not to get called back in as little as 10 hours, sometimes 12, and sometimes 16...so "make sure that you remain available", forever.....would be demoralizing.
I mean even when weekends were part of my permanent assigned duty, knowing when I left work on Monday evening that I had a better than 95% chance of not having to return to work until Friday morning (4 tens + 3 days off), made it all worth while.
Convicted OneI'm surprised that some Hunter Harrison-like expert hasn't considered putting Amtrak style folding bunks in the trailing units, for double-teamed long distance runs?
Remember that this was close to the nadir of Northeastern railroading, if I recall correctly actually right around the time Agnes destroyed much of the practical future for railroading as the Government then regulated it.
Whether this was ever politically practical, of course, or whether it could be made appealing to actual railroaders with seniority and other concerns, is uncertain at best. But if I worked through it there were sure to be others; I'd at least expect John Kneiling to have been among them.
Didn't SCL have some locomotives (GE) built that had an extended cab? The model escapes me at the moment.
Edit - it was the BQ23-7:
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68Didn't SCL have some locomotives (GE) built that had an extended cab?
Now you could assuredly put nifty amenities in a cab that size... on the trucker's sleeper-cab model. We have repeatedly seen in posts over the years how this would work out if the usual care for cab cleanliness were to carry over into bunk arrangements. Remember too that there is no more of a budget justification for engaged-to-be-waiting crews there as there was under ASLEF for two sets of enginemen to run the trains with corridor tenders.
As I recall, things got so bad with the BQ23s that they actually plated over the cabs and ran them as B units.
Overmod tree68 Didn't SCL have some locomotives (GE) built that had an extended cab? Yes, but as I recall the premise was to be able to accommodate some archaic full-crew-law provisions without a waycar. Now you could assuredly put nifty amenities in a cab that size... on the trucker's sleeper-cab model. We have repeatedly seen in posts over the years how this would work out if the usual care for cab cleanliness were to carry over into bunk arrangements. Remember too that there is no more of a budget justification for engaged-to-be-waiting crews there as there was under ASLEF for two sets of enginemen to run the trains with corridor tenders. As I recall, things got so bad with the BQ23s that they actually plated over the cabs and ran them as B units.
tree68 Didn't SCL have some locomotives (GE) built that had an extended cab?
Yes, but as I recall the premise was to be able to accommodate some archaic full-crew-law provisions without a waycar.
Most railroads have ditched having Camp Cars for their MofW gang. Now a days they utilize commercial lodging facilities in the area where gangs are working and transport them to the job site.
OvermodYes, but as I recall the premise was to be able to accommodate some archaic full-crew-law provisions without a waycar.
Agreed - after I added the image, I read through some other info and found that to be the case. Couldn't recall that snippet when I first remembered that model.
If you assigned the same set of power to one crew for a long period of time it would get taken care of better.
CN and CP both still use 'white fleets' (our nickname for ATCO trailers on flatcars) in northern Ontario, where there are long stretches of track with no road access or towns worthy of the name.
Does NS still use camp cars?
SD70DudeDoes NS still use camp cars?
They were at least up to a year ago that I am sure. I haven't been in a position to spy during the past year.
But there was one local siding with a large dirt apron, where they would set up camp whenever they were working within a 50 mile radius or so, and rubber-tire the employees between the camp and whatever jobsite daily
Are you referring to "New Yard" off Nuttman Ave?
I last saw the camp cars about 6 months ago.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.