Recently I was watching and enjoying a fine documentary about US railroading:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_y_bnT8hFg
and I saw again those towers many of us miss and which often had a friendly guy whose job it was to get up from his desk, walk across the room and start to yank on a lever, pulling it all the way back (or pushing it forward). To a boy this looked like very difficult physical work; no one ever seemed to do it all in one motion, but with a jerking effort and needing almost every tooth in the ratchet.
So, a few questions come to mind, starting with How difficult was it? Did towermen have to pass a strength test of some kind? Whose job was it to keep the levers and rods greased up, and how often? What happened when a lever just couldn't be pulled because of say, cold? Or would go only part way? How far ahead of the needed time was a switch required to be thrown? Did seldom used switch rods and levers tend to rust and become more difficult or even impossible to throw? Were some levers more difficult to use than others in the same rank?
And what was it about those very shiny-from-long-use lever handles that just made one want to put one's hands on them?
I would think that the effort required in moving the levers also depended on how much pipe between the tower and switch needed to be moved and how many joints were in the connection.
NKP guy Recently I was watching and enjoying a fine documentary about US railroading: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_y_bnT8hFg and I saw again those towers many of us miss and which often had a friendly guy whose job it was to get up from his desk, walk across the room and start to yank on a lever, pulling it all the way back (or pushing it forward). To a boy this looked like very difficult physical work; no one ever seemed to do it all in one motion, but with a jerking effort and needing almost every tooth in the ratchet. So, a few questions come to mind, starting with How difficult was it? Did towermen have to pass a strength test of some kind? Whose job was it to keep the levers and rods greased up, and how often? What happened when a lever just couldn't be pulled because of say, cold? Or would go only part way? How far ahead of the needed time was a switch required to be thrown? Did seldom used switch rods and levers tend to rust and become more difficult or even impossible to throw? Were some levers more difficult to use than others in the same rank? And what was it about those very shiny-from-long-use lever handles that just made one want to put one's hands on them?
Not all Armstrong levers performed the same purpose or activated the same appurtances. In general there were three types of level activations - throwing a switch or crossover; locking the switch or crossover in place; lining the signals through the plant with the route having been lined and locked in place to allow the signal to be lined.
Normally, each interlocking had a Signal Maintainer assigned to it and he was responsible for all maintenance actions for the plant as well as being the individual that was notified and responded when difficulties were encountered in the routine operation of the plant. Maintainers normally lived close to the interlocking they were responsible for and could respond in short order.
In general the Signal and Locking levers were easy too operate. The Switch and Crossover levers were the bears. To operate the Switch and Crossover levers on had to EXPLODE with all possible power to initiate and keep the movement of all the pipeline and switch points moving into place.
In most cases the model board contained a 'cheat sheet' of what levers had to be operated in what sequence to line a route from where the train was to enter the plant and where it was to exit the plant. In most cases the plant is already lined for Main Track movements and only signals need to be lined to facilitate the movement of trains as directed by the Train Dispatcher.
Normal sequence of events. Preceeding block station rings the Operator up on the Block Line and announces No. 5 Eng 1438 by at 555 PM on No. 1 track. The Operator makes suitable notation on his Block Sheet. #5 activates the announciator (bell) on #1 track - Operator goes on the Dispatcher's Line and announces #5 is 'on the bell'. The Dispatcher will then issue his instructions for the operation of #5 at the Operator's location - it could be as simple as line him through on #1 track or it could be '19 West copy 4' - in which case the Operator would activate his station's Train Order Signal and/or display the Train Order Board. After those actions have been accomplished, the Operator will announce that he is ready to copy the Train Order. Normally, in this situation, the Next Oprerator in the route of the train will also be instructed to copy a train order - he will be instructed to copy a '31' Order - for this he must set and block his signals to STOP and display a RED Train Order Board. Once both Operators have announced they are ready to copy the Train Dispatcher will issue the order - NO 5 ENG 1438 HAS RIGHT OVER ALL TRAINS ON NO 2 TRACK Q TO R. The order will then be repeated by the 31 Opertor first and then the 19 Operator. Once the Dispatcher has given 'Complete' with the time and his initials the order is Effective. The '19' Operator will then complete a Clearance Card with the order number on it any make the orders read for deliver in the Train Order hoops. Next the '19' operator will line the necessary switches, locks and signals to route #5 from #1 track to #2 track at his location as well as going to the ground to effect delivery of the Train Orders to the Engineer, Conductor and Baggageman on #5. The '19' Operator will then note the time #5 was 'by' his location and report that time to both the Train Dispatcher and the '31' Operator. Where I worked, the Train Dispatcher would write that time in RED ink on his Train Sheet - thus denoting that the train WAS NOT operating with the Current of Traffic.
At 'normal' train speeds the bell of the announciator would give about 8 minutes notice. Bell circuits were normally not active when trains operated against the Current of Traffic - The 31 Operator would normally 'eyeball' the headlight of the train apporaching against the Current of Traffic and then notify the Train Dispatcher for his instructions for the further movement of the train.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I've always wondered how many of those towers got converted to power switches but retained their interlocking levers. Did many? most? "armstrong" levers in, say, 1960 not connect to any outside rods?
I've read that the entire CSX railroad is run out of an office building in Jacksonville and there are no more towers. Does that include every track turnout? Or only on main lines? Yards?
54light15I've read that the entire CSX railroad is run out of an office building in Jacksonville and there are no more towers. Does that include every track turnout? Or only on main lines? Yards?
Main Lines.
Even on the Main Lines there are Main Track crossovers that have not been made into Control Points with signaled and power operated switchs.
Main tracks with track speed above 20 MPH with hand throw switches are required to have those hand throw switches electrically locked IF - trains/engines are going to be cleared up on those tracks.
Yardmasters/Hump Retarder Operators control power switches within the Yard.
A possibly related question: many, if not all switches on main lines are required to have PTC position (and possibly condition) indication, whether or not power operated. Are all those indications on CSX 'remoted' to Jacksonville? If so, how are they polled and displayed?
OvermodA possibly related question: many, if not all switches on main lines are required to have PTC position (and possibly condition) indication, whether or not power operated. Are all those indications on CSX 'remoted' to Jacksonville? If so, how are they polled and displayed?
The only switches appearing on the CADS model board displays are those that the Dispatcher controls either by being power operated or by having a Dispatcher controlled Electric lock. The display on the model board for a Dispatcher controlled electric lock is a icon unique to the function, not a switch representation.
Switch position indications are communicated directly between the PTC controller on the hand operated switch and the PTC equipment on the locomotive; that communication does not go through the CADS system.
Overmod A possibly related question: many, if not all switches on main lines are required to have PTC position (and possibly condition) indication, whether or not power operated. Are all those indications on CSX 'remoted' to Jacksonville? If so, how are they polled and displayed?
Many main track hand throw switches in signalled PTC territory ARE NOT directly linked into PTC. Where PTC is an overlay using the existing block signal system for occupancy, it is possible to open a switch after the train/engine has passed the governing signal for the block the switch is in and PTC status will not change.
If a switch is opened before passing the signal governing entrance to a block, the signal will show it's most restrictive indication. Then when a train/engine travelling through that block at restricted speed approaches a hand throw switch, about 400 feet from the switch, PTC will query the engineer on the position of the switch. Facing point switches require choosing between a normal or diverging route option. Trailing point switches just ask for verification.
Cab signals will immediately show a change in condition of the block the train is in. UP has petitioned the FRA to discontinue both ATC and CCS cab signal systems. UP says before discontinuance they will "wire in" the hand throw switches to display switch status in PTC. While neither ATC or CCS has been discontinued, UP has a waiver to operate without either system if PTC is operative. We still need an equipped (ATC and/or CCS) leader that has passed a departure test to lead in the respective territories. But if PTC is operative, ATC/CCS is cut out.
At Stanwood, IA a couple of summers back a hand throw switch to a stub track, remains of a former siding, was opened in the face of a coal train. PTC didn't register the switch being opened. If they would've had their ATC cut in, it would have. A MOW employee was waiting at the switch for a track grinding outfit to clear up at the switch. For some reason he thought the next thing to arrive was the grinder and opened the switch. The train had already entered the block the switch was in when he opened it. The train went through the switch and derailed. Neither crew member was injured.
They were lucky it wasn't the train ahead of the coal train. A loaded ethanol train.
Jeff
BaltACD NKP guy Recently I was watching and enjoying a fine documentary about US railroading: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_y_bnT8hFg and I saw again those towers many of us miss and which often had a friendly guy whose job it was to get up from his desk, walk across the room and start to yank on a lever, pulling it all the way back (or pushing it forward). To a boy this looked like very difficult physical work; no one ever seemed to do it all in one motion, but with a jerking effort and needing almost every tooth in the ratchet. So, a few questions come to mind, starting with How difficult was it? Did towermen have to pass a strength test of some kind? Whose job was it to keep the levers and rods greased up, and how often? What happened when a lever just couldn't be pulled because of say, cold? Or would go only part way? How far ahead of the needed time was a switch required to be thrown? Did seldom used switch rods and levers tend to rust and become more difficult or even impossible to throw? Were some levers more difficult to use than others in the same rank? And what was it about those very shiny-from-long-use lever handles that just made one want to put one's hands on them? Not all Armstrong levers performed the same purpose or activated the same appurtances. In general there were three types of level activations - throwing a switch or crossover; locking the switch or crossover in place; lining the signals through the plant with the route having been lined and locked in place to allow the signal to be lined. Normally, each interlocking had a Signal Maintainer assigned to it and he was responsible for all maintenance actions for the plant as well as being the individual that was notified and responded when difficulties were encountered in the routine operation of the plant. Maintainers normally lived close to the interlocking they were responsible for and could respond in short order. In general the Signal and Locking levers were easy too operate. The Switch and Crossover levers were the bears. To operate the Switch and Crossover levers on had to EXPLODE with all possible power to initiate and keep the movement of all the pipeline and switch points moving into place. In most cases the model board contained a 'cheat sheet' of what levers had to be operated in what sequence to line a route from where the train was to enter the plant and where it was to exit the plant. In most cases the plant is already lined for Main Track movements and only signals need to be lined to facilitate the movement of trains as directed by the Train Dispatcher. Normal sequence of events. Preceeding block station rings the Operator up on the Block Line and announces No. 5 Eng 1438 by at 555 PM on No. 1 track. The Operator makes suitable notation on his Block Sheet. #5 activates the announciator (bell) on #1 track - Operator goes on the Dispatcher's Line and announces #5 is 'on the bell'. The Dispatcher will then issue his instructions for the operation of #5 at the Operator's location - it could be as simple as line him through on #1 track or it could be '19 West copy 4' - in which case the Operator would activate his station's Train Order Signal and/or display the Train Order Board. After those actions have been accomplished, the Operator will announce that he is ready to copy the Train Order. Normally, in this situation, the Next Oprerator in the route of the train will also be instructed to copy a train order - he will be instructed to copy a '31' Order - for this he must set and block his signals to STOP and display a RED Train Order Board. Once both Operators have announced they are ready to copy the Train Dispatcher will issue the order - NO 5 ENG 1438 HAS RIGHT OVER ALL TRAINS ON NO 2 TRACK Q TO R. The order will then be repeated by the 31 Opertor first and then the 19 Operator. Once the Dispatcher has given 'Complete' with the time and his initials the order is Effective. The '19' Operator will then complete a Clearance Card with the order number on it any make the orders read for deliver in the Train Order hoops. Next the '19' operator will line the necessary switches, locks and signals to route #5 from #1 track to #2 track at his location as well as going to the ground to effect delivery of the Train Orders to the Engineer, Conductor and Baggageman on #5. The '19' Operator will then note the time #5 was 'by' his location and report that time to both the Train Dispatcher and the '31' Operator. Where I worked, the Train Dispatcher would write that time in RED ink on his Train Sheet - thus denoting that the train WAS NOT operating with the Current of Traffic. At 'normal' train speeds the bell of the announciator would give about 8 minutes notice. Bell circuits were normally not active when trains operated against the Current of Traffic - The 31 Operator would normally 'eyeball' the headlight of the train apporaching against the Current of Traffic and then notify the Train Dispatcher for his instructions for the further movement of the train.
I appreciate the human interactions that had to occur in altering a switch, but I think you left out the mechanical interactions.
I am not sure of all this, but as I understand how the old Armstrong systems worked, the operator could not just pull a lever to alter a switch position... that lever would be mechanically locked in some maner and that lock had to be released first.
The operator first had to change a lever to alter a signal ahead of the switch to be altered, so any approaching train had to stop or reduce speed so it could stop before reaching the switch. That also triggered a timer of some sort (possibly a pnumatic or hydraulic dashpot or maybe a spring driven clockwork) that had to "time out" before unlocking the lever for the switch to be changed. This was so that any train that had passed the signal would have time to reach the switch and it would be in the position the train expected for what the signal displayed when it was passed.
That Timer would be long enough to account for the slowest train to traverse the distance at "track speed" for that area. If the train was moving slower than that, the engineer would have time to stop the train if the switch was not in the expected position.
Once the Timer completed, then the desired lever would be released so the operator could change the switch position. Then that signal ahead of the switch could be set to indicate the new position of the switch, telling any approaching train what to expect.
In addition, the system was reset such that another timer was started that prohibited the operator from changing the switch position until he changed the signal indication such that a train that might have passed the signal already would not find the switch in other than the expected condition based on what the signal had indicated when passed.
I understood that this was the basis for why it was called an "Interlocking".
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
As I've understood interlockings, the plant was designed so things could only happen in a given order, much as Balt wrote.
There was a mechanical block that prevented lever A from being moved until lever B was moved, etc. That included signals, locks, you-name-it. Hence the "cheat sheets." Of course, at a single location there would likely be only a given number of possible movements.
The bigger passenger stations were, of course, an animal in and of themselves.
Once the armstrong levers were replaced by switches, relays handled that blocking.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Semper VaporoI appreciate the human interactions that had to occur in altering a switch, but I think you left out the mechanical interactions. I am not sure of all this, but as I understand how the old Armstrong systems worked, the operator could not just pull a lever to alter a switch position... that lever would be mechanically locked in some maner and that lock had to be released first. The operator first had to change a lever to alter a signal ahead of the switch to be altered, so any approaching train had to stop or reduce speed so it could stop before reaching the switch. That also triggered a timer of some sort (possibly a pnumatic or hydraulic dashpot or maybe a spring driven clockwork) that had to "time out" before unlocking the lever for the switch to be changed. This was so that any train that had passed the signal would have time to reach the switch and it would be in the position the train expected for what the signal displayed when it was passed. That Timer would be long enough to account for the slowest train to traverse the distance at "track speed" for that area. If the train was moving slower than that, the engineer would have time to stop the train if the switch was not in the expected position. Once the Timer completed, then the desired lever would be released so the operator could change the switch position. Then that signal ahead of the switch could be set to indicate the new position of the switch, telling any approaching train what to expect. In addition, the system was reset such that another timer was started that prohibited the operator from changing the switch position until he changed the signal indication such that a train that might have passed the signal already would not find the switch in other than the expected condition based on what the signal had indicated when passed. I understood that this was the basis for why it was called an "Interlocking".
Timers only come into play when the Operator wants to change from one route that he has already lined and a signal has been displayed for and that route is incorrect and needs to be changed to a different route.
When a signal is taken away from a train (even if the train isn't able to see the signal) the Operator must MANUALLY crank the timeer that is associated with that signal - until that timer has run its course (normall 8 to 10 minutes) the Operator WILL NOT BE ABLE to line a different route. After the timer has completed its run, then and only then can another route, potentially a route in conflict with the original route, be lined and the signal displayed.
With the original Armstrong plants, the levers actually operated fingers that were a part of a bed of interlocking steel fingers and grooves that only permitted a signal to be displayed for a route AFTER ALL the proper levers were operated to the proper position. If a lock for a switch or crossover had not been operated to the proper position - the signal would not line. As orignal Armstrong plants were 'electrified' the steel interlocking bed of fingers and grooves remained - their 'output' ends being connected to electrical relays and switches instead of the original pipelines.
Todays CADS computerized Dispatching systems have the same kind of logic and timers built into each control point and/or signal apurtenance that is in the system. Knock down a signal that had been lined for a train and the CADS will automatically start the timer that must expire before another route can be lined.
jeffhergert Overmod A possibly related question: many, if not all switches on main lines are required to have PTC position (and possibly condition) indication, whether or not power operated. Are all those indications on CSX 'remoted' to Jacksonville? If so, how are they polled and displayed? Many main track hand throw switches in signalled PTC territory ARE NOT directly linked into PTC. Where PTC is an overlay using the existing block signal system for occupancy, it is possible to open a switch after the train/engine has passed the governing signal for the block the switch is in and PTC status will not change. If a switch is opened before passing the signal governing entrance to a block, the signal will show it's most restrictive indication. Then when a train/engine travelling through that block at restricted speed approaches a hand throw switch, about 400 feet from the switch, PTC will query the engineer on the position of the switch. Facing point switches require choosing between a normal or diverging route option. Trailing point switches just ask for verification. Cab signals will immediately show a change in condition of the block the train is in. UP has petitioned the FRA to discontinue both ATC and CCS cab signal systems. UP says before discontinuance they will "wire in" the hand throw switches to display switch status in PTC. While neither ATC or CCS has been discontinued, UP has a waiver to operate without either system if PTC is operative. We still need an equipped (ATC and/or CCS) leader that has passed a departure test to lead in the respective territories. But if PTC is operative, ATC/CCS is cut out. At Stanwood, IA a couple of summers back a hand throw switch to a stub track, remains of a former siding, was opened in the face of a coal train. PTC didn't register the switch being opened. If they would've had their ATC cut in, it would have. A MOW employee was waiting at the switch for a track grinding outfit to clear up at the switch. For some reason he thought the next thing to arrive was the grinder and opened the switch. The train had already entered the block the switch was in when he opened it. The train went through the switch and derailed. Neither crew member was injured. They were lucky it wasn't the train ahead of the coal train. A loaded ethanol train. Jeff
"Many main track hand throw switches in signalled PTC territory ARE NOT directly linked into PTC."
According to FRA's website:
Positive Train Control (PTC) systems are designed to prevent ... movements of trains through switches left in the wrong position.
Your statement seems to conflict with FRA's. Do your words "directly linked" somehow qualify your statement?
MidlandMikePositive Train Control (PTC) systems are designed to prevent ... movements of trains through switches left in the wrong position.
My experiences are similar to Jeff's.
Where I run, PTC doesn't know the position (closed or open) of hand-thrown switches. But it does know where they are, and if you are running on restrictings (as would be the case if a switch were open), it will not allow you to pass any switches while running under that restricting until you visually determine the position and confirm it.
That being said, even when running on clears I've had the system suddenly not know what a switch position is for some reason (even though I'm on a clear), and penalty brakes the train to stop prior to the switch. Unless it panics too late, then it may place your train into emergency.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann MidlandMike: Positive Train Control (PTC) systems are designed to prevent ... movements of trains through switches left in the wrong position. My experiences are similar to Jeff's. Where I run, PTC doesn't know the position (closed or open) of hand-thrown switches. But it does know where they are, and if you are running on restrictings (as would be the case if a switch were open), it will not allow you to pass any switches while running under that restricting until you visually determine the position and confirm it.
MidlandMike: Positive Train Control (PTC) systems are designed to prevent ... movements of trains through switches left in the wrong position.
My experiences are similar to Jeff's. Where I run, PTC doesn't know the position (closed or open) of hand-thrown switches. But it does know where they are, and if you are running on restrictings (as would be the case if a switch were open), it will not allow you to pass any switches while running under that restricting until you visually determine the position and confirm it.
If snow or some other visibility problem caused the switch position to be wrongly confirmed, then how does PTC prevent movement of the train thru the switch?
MidlandMikeIf snow or some other visibility problem caused the switch position to be wrongly confirmed, then how does PTC prevent movement of the train thru the switch?
I don't understand what you're asking?
Re: Balt's latest comment on interlockings.
It's not unusual to train watchers at Deshler to see the "Reservoir" southbound signal to go to "restricting" immediately after a train has passed southbound.
Normally that signal will eventually cycle though to "clear" before the next train arrives.
I conclude that the DS is thus able to line another train through as soon as the leading train has cleared the interlocker, with the "system" setting the signals appropriately.
tree68I conclude that the DS is thus able to line another train through as soon as the leading train has cleared the interlocker, with the "system" setting the signals appropriately.
actually can be done before the first train even goes through: called stacking routes.
You can have multiple train lined up right behind another one through an interlocking.
zugmannactually can be done before the first train even goes through: called stacking routes. You can have multiple train lined up right behind another one through an interlocking.
Well, there you go!
Actually, I think I knew that, but...
tree68 zugmann actually can be done before the first train even goes through: called stacking routes. You can have multiple train lined up right behind another one through an interlocking. Well, there you go! Actually, I think I knew that, but...
zugmann actually can be done before the first train even goes through: called stacking routes. You can have multiple train lined up right behind another one through an interlocking.
There are a number of tools that the CSX Train Dispatcher has in using the CADS from Union Switch & Signal (aka Union Switch & Swindle). In addition to being able to Fleet multiple trains (up to 9) on the same route at a control point, there is also the Union Route tool which allows the Dispatcher to line multiple routes for trains in different directions as well as crossing over in front of each other.
Monday-Friday the morning VRE fleet of trains will have the Northbound signals on #2 track stacked and fleeted from Crossroads to AF (there are VRE Stations in each track segment between control points that can only be worked from #2 track without requiring special protection - Northbound or Southbound). From AF into Washington Union Station the stations permit VRE to make station stops from any track and movements will be interleaved with the VRE Manassas trains as well as CSX freight trains. The Manassas VRE trains come on to CSX at AF - there is coordination between the NS Train Dispatcher and the CSX Train Dispatcher on the handling of these trains in both directions as there are 3 tracks that can be used to move between CSX and NS at AF.
Note - on the RF&P (being a North-South railroad) tracks are numbered from the East to West. #1 track is the Easternmost and #4 track is the Westernmost. The 'normal' Main tracks are #2 and #3 - In the Current of Traffic signalling days, #2 was the Northbound Track and #3 was the Southbound Track - today the entire territory is CTC and tracks are signalled in both directions.
BaltACDThere are a number of tools that the CSX Train Dispatcher has in using the CADS from Union Switch & Signal (aka Union Switch & Swindle). In addition to being able to Fleet multiple trains (up to 9) on the same route at a control point, there is also the Union Route tool which allows the Dispatcher to line multiple routes for trains in different directions as well as crossing over in front of each other.
Balt. That was was the nick name I learned in back in the fifties for US&S. You mentioned that you had worked at Stors in Cincinnati in your early career. Was that an interlocked plant or a manual hand throw plant? I don't remember seeing a tower, just a small shack there.
Electroliner 1935 BaltACD There are a number of tools that the CSX Train Dispatcher has in using the CADS from Union Switch & Signal (aka Union Switch & Swindle). In addition to being able to Fleet multiple trains (up to 9) on the same route at a control point, there is also the Union Route tool which allows the Dispatcher to line multiple routes for trains in different directions as well as crossing over in front of each other. Balt. That was was the nick name I learned in back in the fifties for US&S. You mentioned that you had worked at Stors in Cincinnati in your early career. Was that an interlocked plant or a manual hand throw plant? I don't remember seeing a tower, just a small shack there.
BaltACD There are a number of tools that the CSX Train Dispatcher has in using the CADS from Union Switch & Signal (aka Union Switch & Swindle). In addition to being able to Fleet multiple trains (up to 9) on the same route at a control point, there is also the Union Route tool which allows the Dispatcher to line multiple routes for trains in different directions as well as crossing over in front of each other.
Storrs Jct was not interlocked. There was a Operator and a Switchtender. The Switchtender handled the hand throw switches from CUT, crossovers between B&O #1 and #2 tracks as well as crossovers to the Big 4 Main. Authortiy for movement was a waved Highball from the Switchtender. The back of the 'shack' was on the North Bank of the Ohio River.
Something I pieced together from a B&O HS article in their 'Sentinal' - both Storrs Jct. and M&K Tower at McKeesport came into existance in the early/mid 1930's - with the creation of CUT and the B&O getting its trackage rights over the P&LE from MK Tower in McKeesport to New Castle - neither location was interlocked, both locations used a Operator and Switchtender. Guess B&O was too cheap to order Interlockers at that point in time. Additionally the Center Street crossing at Haselton in Youngstown was not interlocked - a 'Train Director' flagged trains for the B&O, PRR, PLE/NYC over each other with colored hand signals. The Erie, being a 'prior right' carrier serviced the steel plant immediately South of the B&O tower at Haselton and their Main tracks to Warren, OH were the furthest North set of tracks of the number of tracks - with the area being a Statutory Stop for all the other carriers the Erie could open up the crossovers from the steel plant to their Main track with their Hot Bottle runs any time they wanted (when a train wasn't actively moving over the crossovers).
zugmann MidlandMike If snow or some other visibility problem caused the switch position to be wrongly confirmed, then how does PTC prevent movement of the train thru the switch? I don't understand what you're asking?
MidlandMike If snow or some other visibility problem caused the switch position to be wrongly confirmed, then how does PTC prevent movement of the train thru the switch?
In a previous post, I understood you to say that PTC might not know the position of a manual switch, but would know its location, and under a restricted signal would require the engineer to confirm the switch position before getting to it. I assume this would be thru the engineer pushing a button or entering the info into a computer. I am guessing there might be situations like snow aroung the switch, or other visibility problems that might cause the wrong confirmation info to be entered. The PTC would have no independent way to check if the switch info is correct. Thus PTC might not prevent the movemont of the train thru a misaligned switch.
Thanks, Balt. Was Storrs TRACK SPEED = Restricting? Or was a train coming out of or going into CUT given anything higher. Was there a WB track block signal for trains after passing Storrs?. I was looking out the riverside vestibule when I rode #3 through Storrs in 1955 enroute to Louisville. Steam from N. Vernon to Louisville. L&N back to CUT.
MidlandMikeThus PTC might not prevent the movemont of the train thru a misaligned switch.
I mean, yeah, if you don't actually look at the switch. But if you have a restricting signal, you should look at it...?
That's why we were saying that many switches aren't wired into the PTC yet. Some day, I'm sure they will be.
Electroliner 1935Thanks, Balt. Was Storrs TRACK SPEED = Restricting? Or was a train coming out of or going into CUT given anything higher. Was there a WB track block signal for trains after passing Storrs?. I was looking out the riverside vestibule when I rode #3 through Storrs in 1955 enroute to Louisville. Steam from N. Vernon to Louisville. L&N back to CUT.
To my recollection - Restricted Speed - looking for the Highball from the Switchtender. Green for straight Main Track movements and Yellow for crossover movements. As I recollect, the switches and crossovers were all of the 10 MPH variety so Track Speed would be 10 MPH until the rear of the train cleared the switches/crossovers. Westbound intermediate signals were a mile or more West of Storrs Jct. The WEDT was at CW Cabin MP 6. Track speed was 20 MPH Storrs Jct to MP 3 and 60/50 from MP 3 to CW Cabin.
zugmann MidlandMike Thus PTC might not prevent the movemont of the train thru a misaligned switch. I mean, yeah, if you don't actually look at the switch. But if you have a restricting signal, you should look at it...? That's why we were saying that many switches aren't wired into the PTC yet. Some day, I'm sure they will be.
MidlandMike Thus PTC might not prevent the movemont of the train thru a misaligned switch.
I can understand how some expediences were taken on this initial roll-out of PTC. I'm sure you are right that someday all the affected switches will be wired for PTC.
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