I'm now a retired geezer. But when I was a railroader I was in marketing. I now live about a mile from the old Soo Line main (Now CN) 55 miles or so north of Chicago.
So, we've had a few days of really nice and warm spring weather. And I was out driving south on Illinois Rt #83 with a CN southbound on my left. He was going slow. I decided to get ahead of the train moving on south. I had nothing else pressing to do.
I parked in the Metra station lot in Lake Villa, IL. Empty these days. But I once caught commuter trains there for a contract job in the Chicago Loop.
The train: 1) had a BC Rail blue unit as the 2nd lead engine, cool!, 2) was on the east, or left hand, track. I looked at the signals. The western most track was red over red. But the track the train was on had singnals displaying yellow over red. The train stopped just before the first road crossing in Lake Villa. The crossing gate had come down as the train approached. But the crossing gate went back up when it timed out after the train stopped short of the crossing.
My question: why would a yellow over red cause the train to come to a complete stop?
There are many potential reasons. Here are a couple common ones.
This train could be too long to stop at the next signal (which will be red) without blocking a crossing. So the crew has stopped at a spot where they are not blocking crossings and can still see a signal.
Perhaps there is a foreman working on the track ahead, and the crew has stopped before entering the limits.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
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Removed as immaterial to subsequent discussion.
It is not desirable to stop trains where they block road crossings. Where Control Points exist to display Absolute STOP indications there may be one or more road crossings that will be blocked when a train stops.
On my former territory trains (and the Train Dispatcher) were to contact the Yardmaster in Richmond to see if there was a yarding location for the train. If the train would not have a yarding location it would have to be held. If the train was shor it could be brought down to the absolute signal. If the train was over 4000 feet it would have to be held out at a speific road crossing (with no signal at the location). If the train was over 7000 feet it would have to be held a a road crossing even further out - a location where even if the yard entry Control Point was at STOP, the train would be seeing a Clear signal indication.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Overmod The presumption is that the train, stopped in front of a particular signal aspect, has stopped because of that aspect.
I mean, we have places desginated in our timetable that require a stop if a signal is shown as approach or restricting. Normally you get an advance approach ahead of it. So yeah, you would stop there because of that aspect.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Logorrhea removal #1
I'm not that familiar with that line, but there's a possibility that this is where CN stages trains for somewhere. The signal is yellow because the next one is going to be red, and my guess is that it's a control-point signal that the dispatcher knows is going to be red for a while. So (s)he stops the train short to keep it from fouling grade crossings between there and the next signal.We have a similar spot by me here in Lombard. The dispatcher will stop a train short of Finley Road (which happens to be near the approach signal to the Grace control point), because that is a nearly two-mile stretch of track without grade crossings (and two grade crossings between that point and the home signal). There can be any number of reasons to hold out a train here, including the ability of Proviso, IHB, or even NS to accept the train, or because there is a train on the track ahead that is using the crossovers at Grace to get out of the way.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
An IHB ETT from the late 60's had a Special Instruction stating that if a westbound train was greater than a certain length and the home signal at Dolton was indicating Stop, that train would stop short of Cottage Grove to avoid blockages.
CSSHEGEWISCH Special Instruction
I would opine that is the case for the OP's question.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
There's a lot of places where even "normal" sized trains can't go all the way to the red signal. PTC is nice that you can see about 5 miles ahead. (PTC can "see" 6 miles, but we can only see about 5 miles on the screen.)
That's one thing the EMS auto control doesn't take into account. The computer thinks you'll go all the way to the red, showing manual control needed about where the yellow signal is. Most of the time you need to stop before then. You sure need to start slowing before manual control even if you're going all the way, unless you want to set a lot of air to stop.
Because of the behemoths that some of these trains can be and advance notice, I've stopped at green signals because that's the last place it fit.
Jeff
Thank you all for your answers.
Not just grade crossings. Sometimes you layback to avoid stopping on a detector, a steep grade, or next to a housing development that likes to whine.
Overmod zugmann I mean, we have places designated in our timetable that require a stop if a signal is shown as approach or restricting. He had implied that he'd checked to see if there were such a meaning, and did not recognize one. Obviously he wouldn't have posted at all if he had known (but he gets his answer immediately reading your reply, another reason why practical railroaders have so much value in railfan forums).
zugmann I mean, we have places designated in our timetable that require a stop if a signal is shown as approach or restricting.
He had implied that he'd checked to see if there were such a meaning, and did not recognize one. Obviously he wouldn't have posted at all if he had known (but he gets his answer immediately reading your reply, another reason why practical railroaders have so much value in railfan forums).
How did anything Greyhounds said imply that? It seems SD70 Dude, Carl, Zugmann and others all understood clearly why the train halted short of the crossing.
Yep, there's a place near me where westbound trains will be held out of town if it's too congested. They'll stop in a specific spot where there's a long distance between crossings so they won't be blocking anything.
Similar to the OP's situation, they'll end up stopping short of the approach signal to the next control point, so they'll be seeing a yellow over red. They stop at this signal and not the next one due to the road crossings.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Logorrhea removal #2
He said: "The track the train was on had singnals displaying yellow over red. The train stopped just before the first road crossing in Lake Villa. The crossing gate had come down as the train approached. But the crossing gate went back up when it timed out after the train stopped short of the crossing.
My question: why would a yellow over red cause the train to come to a complete stop?"
Your summary is not what he said. Instead you introduced an irrelevant logical fallacy point into the discussion.
Logorrhea removal #3
Jeez, you always have to have the ultimate wordiness in your usual way. There's no personal attack in what I said. I simply thought your introduction of a logic critique only served the cause of logorrhea.
I think most of us familiar with railroads had a pretty good hunch as to why the train stopped when and where it did. I think Greyhounds might have also but was checking it out as a lesson in rail operational practices.
Children!
jeffhergert Because of the behemoths that some of these trains can be and advance notice, I've stopped at green signals because that's the last place it fit. Jeff
Seen that a few times up this way on CN trains stopping on clear indication due to length.
Perhaps SD70Dude can answer this. Over here on the Eastside of the CN system. CN's Strathroy Sub which extends into Port Huron, MI. I've seen yellow over yellow, and green over green aspects. Never saw that before.
Green over green is a Clear indication on a two aspect dwarf signal. This indication does not exist on high mast signals in Canada.
Yellow over yellow is Clear to Slow. This requires you to approach the next signal at no more than 15 mph.
Here are the Canadian signal indications. Slow speed is 15 mph, Diverging speed is 25 mph, Medium speed is 30 mph, and Limited speed is 45 mph.
https://tc.canada.ca/en/rail-transportation/rules/canadian-rail-operating-rules/general-description-location-fixed-signals
charlie hebdoI simply thought your introduction of a logic critique only served the cause of logorrhea.
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