A very informative and likely accurate article on the stuck ship:
The problem is not the bow and stern being poked into the canal banks, although it appears that way in the photos. But, what is actually holding the ship is the fact that its hull bottom is resting on the canal bottom.
There are constant references to sand as being the soil type, but reports indicate that it is actually mostly clay and rocks.
The diagram in this article shows that the canal is 80 feet deep near the center, and then tapers to a shallower depth near each bank. When the ship turned crosswise, the hull rode up onto the shallower shoulders of the canal in a “cam” action.
Excavating out from under the ship requires extreme excavating reach capable of accessing the total area of canal bottom supporting the hull. I would estimate that this support area may be 100 feet wide. I understand that the ship deck is about 200 feet wide.
A big factor in trying to rotate the ship with tugs is the possibility of damaging it. Ships would seem to be robust due to their size, but actually in relation to their size they are remarkably delicate. It is possible that this grounding has already inflicted some hull damage, and attempts to free it pose a lot more risk of damage.
Informative article from the Independent:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/suez-canal-latest-blockage-tide-ever-given-b1823493.html
An example of a ship bound from Asia to the US East Coast is the Maersk Athabaska currently scheduled to depart from Tanjung Pelepas, Malaysia on March 31, 2021 with scheduled unloading in Savannah, Georgia on May 5th, 2021. This ship would have transited the Suez Canal on April 14-15 but probably won't now. Intermediate stops are Columbo(Sri Lanka), Salalah (Oman), Seuz, Newark, and Norfolk. Probably lots of apparel on that ship. Of course this is just one shipping company.
Sara T Balt ACD, the reportage by the fat 'important' swaggering man When I first saw this guy I wondered how much you can believe of what he says, he is the type of bragging and tampering thing together to make a hit of it. Then comes the point: The suez canal is "about 20 meters deep" this reporter says, the graphic shown at the same time reads 15,7 meters. He makes typical moves like looking up at 5:52 and repeatedly further on that people make when they are insecure .. Not very trustworthy man this one. I cannot believe he knows much about aviation. Well that's just from my observation of his behaviour. As for the ship I would say it was hit sideways by the storm and with its own speed then ran into the bank mainly with the right part of the bow, this sudden stop turned the ship to the left with its free hulk and the rear got stuck into the other bank. If the water level of the canal is not subject to tide and is the same as when it happened there should be very little font and aft lift if any because the ends of the ship went into the banks straight level and not way up. Taking off cargo would lift the ship but how would they debark cargo there? Digging out the ends of the ship would appear best to me. But as commerce is, the pressure to reopen the canal may become so strong that they might decide to cut it up just to get the canal free the sooner. SARA 05003
Balt ACD, the reportage by the fat 'important' swaggering man
When I first saw this guy I wondered how much you can believe of what he says, he is the type of bragging and tampering thing together to make a hit of it. Then comes the point: The suez canal is "about 20 meters deep" this reporter says, the graphic shown at the same time reads 15,7 meters. He makes typical moves like looking up at 5:52 and repeatedly further on that people make when they are insecure .. Not very trustworthy man this one. I cannot believe he knows much about aviation. Well that's just from my observation of his behaviour.
As for the ship I would say it was hit sideways by the storm and with its own speed then ran into the bank mainly with the right part of the bow, this sudden stop turned the ship to the left with its free hulk and the rear got stuck into the other bank.
If the water level of the canal is not subject to tide and is the same as when it happened there should be very little font and aft lift if any because the ends of the ship went into the banks straight level and not way up. Taking off cargo would lift the ship but how would they debark cargo there? Digging out the ends of the ship would appear best to me.
But as commerce is, the pressure to reopen the canal may become so strong that they might decide to cut it up just to get the canal free the sooner.
SARA 05003
Swaggering? Try stuttering. The man appears to have a mild speech disfluency, and he is doing the best he is able to. There are all manners of conditions and brain disfunctions affecting human speech, but the great mystery of stuttering is that most people who stutter don't have a single thing wrong with their muscles or their nerves or their brain.
He is untruthful because he is constantly looking up?
I think he is looking up at his written script. During the COVID lockdown, I was helping someone in my household give a prepared speech for their work by talking into a laptop computer with a camera and microphone, and this is a lot harder than it looks. We tried to work on the side glances to the speech taped to the wall next to the computer and we pretty much gave up on went with the "take" we had.
15.7 m is labelled in the diagram as the draft of the ship whereas he states that the depth of the canal is 19-20 m.
Fat? What did Juan Brown do to offend a person?
He explains that he is a airplane pilot but his YouTbue viewers asked that he comment on the Ever Given ship accident. He explained what is known and commented that an investigation will give more answers. He offered a calculation that strong winds could make this ship impossible to control, even if everything on the ship were working perfectly. He also explained the impact on international commerce.
A person should be concerned that many of the necessities of daily life could get scarce or expensive in the weeks and months ahead. So much of everyday living depends on the movements of those ships.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
tree68 SD60MAC9500 Yes Ever Given has bow thrusters but they are of no use in its position Given the situation, I suspect they were less than effective for dealing with the crosswind.
SD60MAC9500 Yes Ever Given has bow thrusters but they are of no use in its position
Given the situation, I suspect they were less than effective for dealing with the crosswind.
They wouldn't be able to counter the wind at all. Use of the thrusters in high wind scenario based on speed and direction could do more harm than good.
BaltACD My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages.
My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages.
You're understanding is right. Liner services have multiple ports of call.
SD60MAC9500Yes Ever Given has bow thrusters but they are of no use in its position
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
blue streak 1 Do these ships have the maneuvering steering tunnels in the bow ? Someone here may know a link to ship fans that may know more ? A Satellite images of back ups. Satellite imagery shows work underway to free ship Ever Given in the Suez Canal (msn.com)
Do these ships have the maneuvering steering tunnels in the bow ? Someone here may know a link to ship fans that may know more ? A Satellite images of back ups.
Satellite imagery shows work underway to free ship Ever Given in the Suez Canal (msn.com)
If you're talking about bow thrusters. Yes Ever Given has them but they are of no use in its position.
Balt ACD
That may well be, but still he fills the classics of a man not trustworthy, that I can tell. Do you know what good a pilot he is?
>>Mix 182K square feet of 'sail' space with a 40+ knot sustained winds and you have the Ever Given.<<
That's very much what I wrote: the Ever Given ever given to the wind to scratch the bank. It seems to me they have arrived at the same misproportioning of size and maneuverablity as with the Titanic. Now they have these side thrusters but their thrust is too small. Well if it was larger it would cause upheval in a harbor when used.
>>The canal is a tidal body <<
Outch!
Does an illconceived name make itself noticed here? they say the ship had a misfortune in the Elbe at Hamburg in 2019 .. Ever Given to misfortune? I hope not!
Sara 05003
The man is a cargo airline pilot and his normal area of reportage and expertise is in things aircraft. Both aircraft and watercraft have to deal with fluid dynamics - on one the fluid is air, on the other the fluid is water. Mix 182K square feet of 'sail' space with a 40+ knot sustained winds and you have the Ever Given. Mother Nature overpowers the human created machine.
The canal is a tidal body of water and the salvors are making their 'best efforts' during high tides. There is a Full Moon this weekend and the tides should be a little bit higher. Whether the salvors will have success is open to question.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
charlie hebdo BaltACD charlie hebdo Containers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports. My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages. Vessels transiting the Suez Canal are mostly involved in the Europe - Near & Far East trades. The large ocean carriers, such as Evergreen, have scheduled service that spans the globe. All true, but very little impact on US railroads' intermodal trains.
BaltACD charlie hebdo Containers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports. My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages. Vessels transiting the Suez Canal are mostly involved in the Europe - Near & Far East trades. The large ocean carriers, such as Evergreen, have scheduled service that spans the globe.
charlie hebdo Containers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports.
My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages. Vessels transiting the Suez Canal are mostly involved in the Europe - Near & Far East trades.
The large ocean carriers, such as Evergreen, have scheduled service that spans the globe.
All true, but very little impact on US railroads' intermodal trains.
Except for the flotilla of ships along the West Coast of the USA that are waiting to be docked and unloaded - with at least a portion of the containers unloaded being hauled from the coast by rail. Reportedly it will take 4 to 6 months to work the backlog of ships to the point of the ports being 'fluid'.
Semper VaporoPersonally, I think there was a tail-wind slightly from right to left. The ship was turned slightly, either due to a stronger wind near the back of the ship (that is a long boat!), or as they initially claimed, the ship lost steering. Anyway, the rear slipping to the left pointed the front of the ship into the right bank where it ran aground and stopped. The tailwind now was pushing the ship sideways and that ran the rear of the ship onto the left bank. If it had not hit the left bank it would have done a full 180 in the channel, pivoting on the front in the right bank. They will have to lighten the rear of the ship to pull it sideways off the bank and then continue pulling backward to get the front loose and the ship straight in the channel.
The ship was turned slightly, either due to a stronger wind near the back of the ship (that is a long boat!), or as they initially claimed, the ship lost steering. Anyway, the rear slipping to the left pointed the front of the ship into the right bank where it ran aground and stopped. The tailwind now was pushing the ship sideways and that ran the rear of the ship onto the left bank.
If it had not hit the left bank it would have done a full 180 in the channel, pivoting on the front in the right bank.
They will have to lighten the rear of the ship to pull it sideways off the bank and then continue pulling backward to get the front loose and the ship straight in the channel.
Reports are that the wind was sustained at over 40 kt with higher gusts. Considering that from the water line to the top level of the containers is 140 feet all along the 1300 foot length, make the vessel a 182k square foot sail. Given the wind velocity and the 'sail area' - Mother Nature's will be done, on Earth.
Personally, I think there was a tail-wind slightly from right to left.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Here is satellite view of container ship. This is just speculation but the way the bow is more impaled on the east side it apears that the wind that pushed the bow was a quartering headwind from the NW. Otherwise the stern might have been pushed into the east bank ?
The way winds work it might have been a sudden gust from different direction of the prevailing wind. Happens often when flyng into airports in strong winds.
Latest satellite images show efforts to free the giant container ship, Ever Given, stuck in Suez Canal (msn.com)
A vision from an aircraft perspective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLFmojnXtk0
My understanding is that the shipping lane through the canal is much narrower than the canal waterway. So the ship is not merely stuck by having each end jammed horizontally into the waterway banks, as one might assume looking at the photos.
What actually happened was the ship being rotated so its bow and stern rode up onto the shallower bottom extending out some considerable distance from the waterway side walls. So it is not jammed side to side in the canal. In is grounded on the shallow bottom of the canal within maybe 50-75 feet of each end of the ship. So the ship is somewhat suspended like a bridge.
When the ship lost control, it was still completely afloat, so there is no reason why its mid-section is not still afloat. But a portion of its total weight has been shifted from buoyancy support in the mid-section to solid sand bottom support near each end of the ship. That would mean that there is open water from one side of the ship to the other under the mid-section.
Having the ship suspended like bridge is putting abnormal stress on the hull. Such stress could cause the ship to break in two near the mid-section. The article does mention the risk of structural damage to the ship from being unevenly supported as it is.
Once the sand is removed under each end of the ship, it will be properly afloat, but it will still not be able to be rotated to align with the canal route. Even after the sand is removed from under each end of the ship, those ends will be sitting in “notches” cut into the sand bottom. The sides of notches will prevent the ship from being rotated into alignment with the canal. So what would then be required is to dredge out a lot more sand on one side of one notch to allow the ship rotate completely out of the notch while withdrawing from the opposite end notch.
Will it take a 'worm' to refloat the Ever Given?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/03/26/full-worm-moon-rise-sunday-evening-but-supermoon/6999775002/
Worm Moon that is.
charlie hebdoContainers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports.
Containers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports.
blue streak 1More probable half hearted attempts to free ship ? Plan made to refloat ship blocking Suez Canal using tide (msn.com)
Plan made to refloat ship blocking Suez Canal using tide (msn.com)
When working in tidal waters - no refloating attempts of a vessel can be undertaken without the assists provided by high tide. Some tides are higher than others.
The article seems to indicate that the finger pointing for cause is well underway as there was allegation of mechanical failure and that is now being refuted - let the games begin.
More probable half hearted attempts to free ship ?
https://news.yahoo.com/trains-collide-southern-egypt-killing-120818092.html
So first train stopped suddenly and second ran into it ? No signal system ? definitely no PTC! case of following too closely ?
As if the Suez Canal situation isn't bad enough for Egypt.
Railroad issues -
samfp1943Been srt f loselyh following tosstoryu on the [ModelIntermodal web site] And some of the 'speculation' here as well... The tonage involved with the grunded vessel in the Suez is. I think,is listed at abt 422,000 (tons) Gross Wt (?). ecall the grounding and ca;psikzing of the ;passenger ship Costa Concrdia off the Italian coast (@ Giglio ) in Spring of 2012 ? It was carrying, IIRC 4,000 passengers (and crew?). It was abut 8 years old, at the time of its sinking(?) new cost was (estimated @ $612 million ) . Salvage ro get floating, and towable to a salvage point took into 2015; it was towed to Genoa, Italy to be cut up. That was finished in 2015. Salvage costs were estimated to be in the area of some $18.5 millions. Was finished in 2018 (?) . Recall that the Costa's Captain was tried and convicted of a number of deaths in the sinking f the Costa Concrdia.
ecall the grounding and ca;psikzing of the ;passenger ship Costa Concrdia off the Italian coast (@ Giglio ) in Spring of 2012 ? It was carrying, IIRC 4,000 passengers (and crew?). It was abut 8 years old, at the time of its sinking(?) new cost was (estimated @ $612 million ) .
Salvage ro get floating, and towable to a salvage point took into 2015; it was towed to Genoa, Italy to be cut up. That was finished in 2015. Salvage costs were estimated to be in the area of some $18.5 millions. Was finished in 2018 (?) . Recall that the Costa's Captain was tried and convicted of a number of deaths in the sinking f the Costa Concrdia.
Don't believe the groundings of the two vessels mentioned are in anyway analogous. Costa Concordia's Captian was making a 'joy ride' pass of the off course area where the vessel grounded.
Reports I have previously seen list the Ever Given at 224K tons. I doubt that the Suez Canal pilots were having the vessel 'joy ride'.
Been sort of losely following this story on the [ModelIntermodal web site]. And some of the 'speculation' ,here as well... The tonage involved with the grunded vessel, the Ever Given in the Suez, is I think,is listed at abt 422,000 (tons) Gross Wt (?).
Recall the grounding and capsizing of the passenger ship, Costa Concrdia off the Italian coast (@ Giglio ) in Spring of 2012 ? It was carrying, IIRC 4,000 passengers (and crew?). It was abut 8 years old, at the time of its sinking(?); new cost was (estimated @ $612 million ) .
Salvage to get it refloated, and towable to a salvage point took into 2015; it was towed to Genoa, Italy to be cut up. That was finished in 2015. Salvage costs were estimated to be in the area of some $18.5 millions(3x value of vessel when new). Was finished in 2018 (?) . Recall that the Costa's Captain was tried and convicted of a number of deaths in the sinking f the Costa Concrdia.
A couple of things will probably be true in this case of the Ever Given, It will take opre time than expected, will cost owner's(?) majpr bucks, and give employment to a lot of lawyers for a long time.
blue streak 1Do these ships have the maneuvering steering tunnels in the bow ?
There are some markings on the bow I do not recognize - they don't resemble those I see on ships I see on the Seaway for bow thrusters. The Wiki for the ship, however, notes that it has two bow thrusters, but no stern thrusters.
Euclid One prediction is that the ship will be freed over the weekend, and the salvage company says it could be weeks. A plan under consideration is to lighten the ship by removing fuel, but that reduces stability and poses a risk of capsize. Wouldn't that be something. Spill all of those containers into the canal and leave the ship on its side. This detail has been announced: "The SCA said Thursday after meeting with the Dutch salvage firm SMIT, which is helping lead the operation, that about 19,600-26,000 cubic yards of sand had to be moved, reaching a depth of 40 to 50 feet along the canal's bank, to dislodge the ship." [I assume that is 19,600-26,000 c.y.]
One prediction is that the ship will be freed over the weekend, and the salvage company says it could be weeks. A plan under consideration is to lighten the ship by removing fuel, but that reduces stability and poses a risk of capsize. Wouldn't that be something. Spill all of those containers into the canal and leave the ship on its side.
This detail has been announced:
"The SCA said Thursday after meeting with the Dutch salvage firm SMIT, which is helping lead the operation, that about 19,600-26,000 cubic yards of sand had to be moved, reaching a depth of 40 to 50 feet along the canal's bank, to dislodge the ship."
[I assume that is 19,600-26,000 c.y.]
in Europe they place periods in numbers where in the US we place commas
EuclidOne prediction is that the ship will be freed over the weekend, and the salvage company says it could be weeks. A plan under consideration is to lighten the ship by removing fuel, but that reduces stability and poses a risk of capsize. Wouldn't that be something. Spill all of those containers into the canal and leave the ship on its side. This detail has been announced: "The SCA said Thursday after meeting with the Dutch salvage firm SMIT, which is helping lead the operation, that about 19,600-26,000 cubic yards of sand had to be moved, reaching a depth of 40 to 50 feet along the canal's bank, to dislodge the ship." [I assume that is 19,600-26,000 c.y.]
SMIT is recognized world wide for their vessel salvage abilities. There are numerous YouTube videos of their salvage efforts on a variety of casualties.
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