Vessel arrested
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FESrIXpsQJc
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Convicted One Electroliner 1935 When they started changing to red glass lenses in the 3:00 & 9:00 positions for s horizontal indication, the center lamp was extinguished. Then they went with green lenses at the 12:00 & 6:00 positions for a vertical indication and the center position was again extinguished. There, that what you were looking for?
Electroliner 1935 When they started changing to red glass lenses in the 3:00 & 9:00 positions for s horizontal indication, the center lamp was extinguished. Then they went with green lenses at the 12:00 & 6:00 positions for a vertical indication and the center position was again extinguished.
There, that what you were looking for?
Judge, AQUIT that man. He got it done.
Thanx C. O.
Overmod Backshop I know the ship could be sold but would they actually have any legal reason to seize the contents of the containers? The contents don't belong to the ship owners or operators. Maritime law can be funny. See here for instance: https://www.workboat.com/viewpoints/quirks-property-loss-sea http://www.bullivant.com/mobile/showarticle.aspx?show=7271&
Backshop I know the ship could be sold but would they actually have any legal reason to seize the contents of the containers? The contents don't belong to the ship owners or operators.
Maritime law can be funny. See here for instance:
https://www.workboat.com/viewpoints/quirks-property-loss-sea
http://www.bullivant.com/mobile/showarticle.aspx?show=7271&
When Egypt gets the number of Euros they want - the vessel will sail on to destination.
Just like anything else in the World - Follow the money.
BackshopI know the ship could be sold but would they actually have any legal reason to seize the contents of the containers? The contents don't belong to the ship owners or operators.
I know the ship could be sold but would they actually have any legal reason to seize the contents of the containers? The contents don't belong to the ship owners or operators.
Neither the ship nor the containers onboard are going anywhere soon. Likely they are hostages of the Egyptian Government(on behalf of the Canal Authority). They contents of the containers will likely be ransomed off at some date in the future if they contents are of a nature as to be copywrited.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf4qVJ65ghA
blue streak 1There are going to be a lot of unhapy shippers if their container(s) is held up due to maritine law. I can imagine any where between 1000 and 5000 shippers. Then you have the secondary and third ultimate receivers of parts..
Can the parties argue in Egyptian? Especially Egyptian's that only want to get paid top Euro for their damages both real and imagined.
There are going to be a lot of unhapy shippers if their container(s) is held up due to maritine law. I can imagine any where between 1000 and 5000 shippers. Then you have the secondary and third ultimate receivers of parts..
BaltACDIf one features that the US legal system is a labyrinth - it is just a appetizer in comparison maritime law and its application amongst all the participating countries and their multiplicity of claims when something goes 'wrong'.
If you truly want to get the mother of all headaches, read any selected appeals court case involving maritime law. My assessment is a body of law developed over hundreds of years by jurists under the influence of LSD.
Just sayin’.
CSSHEGEWISCHSince each ship has different handling characteristics, the pilots pass instructions to the helm and crew as appropriate.
Starting a marine diesel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFmCxOjY_A
beaulieuRegarding the ship's ownership and management. The ship is chartered to Evergreen Marine Corp. a Taiwanese company. The ship is co-owned by Luster Maritime and Higaki Sangyo Kaisha both of Japan The ship is registered in and flagged in Panama The ship's Master and crew are from India The ship is insured in the United Kingdom. The Court that will hear the case will be an Admiralty Court in London. I believe that the Owners have declared the ship and its cargo a total loss and have declared "General Average". This is due to the likely cost of freeing the ship, damage to the ship, and any fines imposed by the Canal Authority. I hope that the owners of the ship's cargo have separate "Cargo Insurance" as they might lose all of it.
The ship is chartered to Evergreen Marine Corp. a Taiwanese company.
The ship is co-owned by Luster Maritime and Higaki Sangyo Kaisha both of Japan
The ship is registered in and flagged in Panama
The ship's Master and crew are from India
The ship is insured in the United Kingdom.
The Court that will hear the case will be an Admiralty Court in London.
I believe that the Owners have declared the ship and its cargo a total loss and have declared "General Average". This is due to the likely cost of freeing the ship, damage to the ship, and any fines imposed by the Canal Authority.
I hope that the owners of the ship's cargo have separate "Cargo Insurance" as they might lose all of it.
If one features that the US legal system is a labyrinth - it is just a appetizer in comparison maritime law and its application amongst all the participating countries and their multiplicity of claims when something goes 'wrong'.
Ship happens!
Regarding the ship's ownership and management.
The most recent summary I read says the ship steering became uncontrollable in a 46 mph side wind.
Thanks!
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
Since each ship has different handling characteristics, the pilots pass instructions to the helm and crew as appropriate.
Murphy SidingI've read they have Egyptian pilots.
Do the pilots actually take the helm, or are they there to guide and oversee the regular ship's crew as they handle the ship?
On the RR, sometimes the pilots actually run the locomotives and sometimes they just advise the engineer, depending on the situation.
York1I haven't read through all the posts, so if this has been covered, forgive me. Do the ships go through the canal with the ship's captain running the ship, or does the canal require a pilot to come on board?
Do the ships go through the canal with the ship's captain running the ship, or does the canal require a pilot to come on board?
Canal transit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwdU2cYRbnM
York1 I haven't read through all the posts, so if this has been covered, forgive me. Do the ships go through the canal with the ship's captain running the ship, or does the canal require a pilot to come on board?
I haven't read through all the posts, so if this has been covered, forgive me.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Back to the Ever Given - One thing that is being overlooked about the speed that the vessel was operating - the slower the vessel goes through the water the less rudder authority is created in order to control the vessel. Vessels need movement through the water to be able to steer. When you have a single prop, single rudder vessel of 400m long you need to have rudder authority.
Secondarily there are fluid dynamic issues between the vessel and the banks and bottom of the canal that inject additional issues into the control of the ULCC's navigating the canal.
Reports I have read indicate that the normal passage time through the canal is 12 to 16 hours and the canal is operated by fleeting vessels to meet and pass each other at the Great Bitter Lake as most of the canal on either side of the lake is a single stream.
BaltACDCharts and rules don't make that distinction. Observed installations over the years did.
Ah - the thot plickens!
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 BaltACD The Lunar White restricting on B&O signals was the entry to unsignalled territory. The horizontal red with top or bottom white marker is restricting into SIGNALED territory. The Lunar White restricting was also used in dark TTTO territory as a Distant Signal to a interlocking with a absolute signal. Thanks for the clarification. Current signal charts don't make that distinction. It also clears up some confusion - it's well known that the B&O CPLs don't have the lamps they'll never use for a given location. Which is why the CPLs at Deshler don't have the lunars.
BaltACD The Lunar White restricting on B&O signals was the entry to unsignalled territory. The horizontal red with top or bottom white marker is restricting into SIGNALED territory. The Lunar White restricting was also used in dark TTTO territory as a Distant Signal to a interlocking with a absolute signal.
Thanks for the clarification. Current signal charts don't make that distinction.
It also clears up some confusion - it's well known that the B&O CPLs don't have the lamps they'll never use for a given location. Which is why the CPLs at Deshler don't have the lunars.
Charts and rules don't make that distinction. Observed installations over the years did.
BaltACDThe Lunar White restricting on B&O signals was the entry to unsignalled territory. The horizontal red with top or bottom white marker is restricting into SIGNALED territory. The Lunar White restricting was also used in dark TTTO territory as a Distant Signal to a interlocking with a absolute signal.
tree68 Electroliner 1935 permissive/restricting indication with "lunar" B&O used lunar in the "backwards" lamps for restricting, although none of the CPLs at Deshler has those lunar lamps. Restricting there now is shown on the CPLs with a red (horizontal) on the main disk and a top or bottom marker lit.
Electroliner 1935 permissive/restricting indication with "lunar"
B&O used lunar in the "backwards" lamps for restricting, although none of the CPLs at Deshler has those lunar lamps. Restricting there now is shown on the CPLs with a red (horizontal) on the main disk and a top or bottom marker lit.
The Lunar White restricting on B&O signals was the entry to unsignalled territory. The horizontal red with top or bottom white marker is restricting into SIGNALED territory.
The Lunar White restricting was also used in dark TTTO territory as a Distant Signal to a interlocking with a absolute signal.
As an aside, the "Darth Vader" signals on the SW transfer have a lunar in the middle head to indicate restricting.
Now back to ships...
Convicted One
Since your gif has position light signals, and they had incandescent lamps with amber lenses. they can't give the permissive/restricting indication with "lunar" (bluish white) color lamps. On the PRR, the left or right diagonals were all amber. All lamps were amber. When they started changing to red glass lenses in the 3:00 & 9:00 positions for s horizontal indication, the center lamp was extinguished. Then they went with green lenses at the 12:00 & 6:00 positions for a vertical indication and the center position was again extinguished.
Deleted
Murphy Siding Thinking out loud, bear with me-Let's say the ship was heading north in the north-south canal. The wind blows hard and turns the ship at an angle toward one shore or the other. The ship plows into the bank under power and buries the bow into the bank. Let's say the wind was out of the west. That could conveivably push the bow into the east bank. How did the tail end of the ship get buried into the west bank? Wouldn't the same wind tend to push the tail end east as well?
Thinking out loud, bear with me-Let's say the ship was heading north in the north-south canal. The wind blows hard and turns the ship at an angle toward one shore or the other. The ship plows into the bank under power and buries the bow into the bank. Let's say the wind was out of the west. That could conveivably push the bow into the east bank. How did the tail end of the ship get buried into the west bank? Wouldn't the same wind tend to push the tail end east as well?
Here is how it was described in one of the detailed reports:
In your picture of the ship heading north, the wind blew it off center, to the west. To get back to center, the crew steered at a shallow angle to the east. But they steered too sharply and overcorrected. So the ship angled off to the east, crossed over the center and continued angling to the east. Then it struck the east bank at a fairly shallow angle of maybe 10-15 degrees to the centerline. It dug into the bank and stopped abruptly. The ship’s momentum then continued moving the ship by rotating it clockwise around the point where its bow had stuck into the bank as it stopped moving forward, and even somewhat after it had stopped moving forward, until the stern swung around and hooked into the west bank.
It was reported that the ship was traveling at a relatively high rate of speed when this overcorrection and loss of control developed.
BaltACD CSSHEGEWISCH And just which court would have jurisdiction?? The canal is in Egypt, the ship is Japanese-owned (I think) and we never heard which flag the ship flew under. Operating under a Panama flag, I understand; with a Indian crew.
CSSHEGEWISCH And just which court would have jurisdiction?? The canal is in Egypt, the ship is Japanese-owned (I think) and we never heard which flag the ship flew under.
Operating under a Panama flag, I understand; with a Indian crew.
Convicted One Semper Vaporo Should I then sue you to recover the losses I incur because of the settlement you got? Not if my exit strategy pays off. The key is to sue, win, set up the payoff as part of a trust based in South Dakota, and then file personal bankruptcy. And hopefully die before you can untangle South Dakota trust protections. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Semper Vaporo Should I then sue you to recover the losses I incur because of the settlement you got?
Not if my exit strategy pays off. The key is to sue, win, set up the payoff as part of a trust based in South Dakota, and then file personal bankruptcy. And hopefully die before you can
untangle South Dakota trust protections. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Convicted One Perhaps I'll just settle for placing a flaming bag of organic fertilizer on the front porches of the major stockholders. I don't suppose you want a share of that, too?
Perhaps I'll just settle for placing a flaming bag of organic fertilizer on the front porches of the major stockholders. I don't suppose you want a share of that, too?
I am sure I could contribute some of that material if you are in need of a little more.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Overmod For those who don't use LinkedIn (a kind of professional social-networking system): the clip is a couple of wiener dogs in safety vests, shown digging in the sand with the 'stuck' ship's bow in the background, then happily receiving treats as we see the 'liberated' Ever Given gliding past in the background. Sorry if this was a 'spoiler' for anyone...
For those who don't use LinkedIn (a kind of professional social-networking system): the clip is a couple of wiener dogs in safety vests, shown digging in the sand with the 'stuck' ship's bow in the background, then happily receiving treats as we see the 'liberated' Ever Given gliding past in the background.
Sorry if this was a 'spoiler' for anyone...
Convicted One Semper Vaporo Should I then sue you to recover the losses I incur because of the settlement you got?
You may have to hurry with that; I have both feet in the grave and I am just trying to decide which way I want to face when I lie down.
Semper VaporoShould I then sue you to recover the losses I incur because of the settlement you got?
Convicted One So, if delays caused due to this whole fiasco are expected to drive up consumer prices, where do I sign up for the class action suit to recover my losses? Opportunity seems tailor-made for one of those late night TV commercials,
So, if delays caused due to this whole fiasco are expected to drive up consumer prices, where do I sign up for the class action suit to recover my losses? Opportunity seems tailor-made for one of those late night TV commercials,
But if you sue and win, the damages paid to you will just raise the prices of the goods that are transported and YOU and I will have to pay those higher prices.
Should I then sue you to recover the losses I incur because of the settlement you got?
CSSHEGEWISCHAnd just which court would have jurisdiction?? The canal is in Egypt, the ship is Japanese-owned (I think) and we never heard which flag the ship flew under.
And just which court would have jurisdiction?? The canal is in Egypt, the ship is Japanese-owned (I think) and we never heard which flag the ship flew under.
OvermodFor those who don't use LinkedIn
Thanks, Overmod...I was kind of having the same reaction Balt was having.
mudchickenhttps://www.linkedin.com/feed/hashtag/?keywords=hardhatrescue&highlightedUpdateUrns=urn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A6783027532724793344&lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_feed%3B4%2BRnlFwIQzCj7wgnILBdmw%3D%3D ...Now you know the rest of the story
...Now you know the rest of the story
Ever Given wants me to sign up to 'Linked In'?
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/hashtag/?keywords=hardhatrescue&highlightedUpdateUrns=urn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A6783027532724793344&lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_feed%3B4%2BRnlFwIQzCj7wgnILBdmw%3D%3D
Overmodthe only line of latitude that works is the equator.
Which was part of Erik's original specification.
Convicted OneLOL, it's a matter of comparing miles of longitude along a line of latitude, compared to miles of latitude along a line of longitude.
Paul of Covington Now I'm confused. Did you correct the right "longitude"?
LOL, it's a matter of comparing miles of longitude along a line of latitude, compared to miles of latitude along a line of longitude. It would actually be a line of longitude passing from the equator to the pole, via Paris.
Not that I claim to be an expert. It took me 62 years to figure out how to determine local longitude with a lensatic compass and a wristwatch.
90 degrees of longitude = ¼ of the way around the earth at the equator
90 degrees of latitude = ¼ of the way around the earth, from equator to pole. (A quarter of the great circle through the poles and the datum point in Paris is the supposed original basis of metric distance measure as Erik hinted.)
Oblateness of the spheroid is considerable, though, as might be expected for continental masses moving at supersonic speed.
Erik_Mag Convicted One Erik_Mag If the earth was a perfect sphere, 5,400 nautical miles (90 degrees of longitude at the equator) would have equaled 10,000km (90 degrees of longitude - equator to nothpole via Paris). Am I misreading your intention there? Oops.... Corrected in original post.
Convicted One Erik_Mag If the earth was a perfect sphere, 5,400 nautical miles (90 degrees of longitude at the equator) would have equaled 10,000km (90 degrees of longitude - equator to nothpole via Paris). Am I misreading your intention there?
Erik_Mag If the earth was a perfect sphere, 5,400 nautical miles (90 degrees of longitude at the equator) would have equaled 10,000km (90 degrees of longitude - equator to nothpole via Paris).
Am I misreading your intention there?
Oops.... Corrected in original post.
Now I'm confused. Did you correct the right "longitude"?
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Murphy:
Sorry, I don't know Rick, but I tell him when I see him that you will kick his .. his what he has at the backside .. when you see him.
Last he was reported on board of the Ever Given, but since he was wanted for posssibly having something to do with the grounding I'm not sure if he's still on board.
Sara
tree68 CSSHEGEWISCH The 1000-footers are confined to Lake Erie and upstream by the size of the locks on the Welland Canal. That being said, tree's comment would easily apply to the Soo Canal as well. Exactly - Ships on the Welland Canal and the Long Sault locks on the St Lawrence are limited to 766' - that's the length of the locks. Even with that, there are places where such ships could get wedged sideways.
CSSHEGEWISCH The 1000-footers are confined to Lake Erie and upstream by the size of the locks on the Welland Canal. That being said, tree's comment would easily apply to the Soo Canal as well.
Exactly - Ships on the Welland Canal and the Long Sault locks on the St Lawrence are limited to 766' - that's the length of the locks. Even with that, there are places where such ships could get wedged sideways.
Sara T Murphy: >> I followed one of the links above, that lead to another link etc. and ended up getting Rick-rolled.<< Since you didn't note which link it was you may simply keep chuckling. Otherwise I would have repaired what seemed to go wrong. But I always check the links I put and if it works with me, it's seems not the link that is to blame when you try to follow it. SARA
Murphy: >> I followed one of the links above, that lead to another link etc. and ended up getting Rick-rolled.<<
Since you didn't note which link it was you may simply keep chuckling. Otherwise I would have repaired what seemed to go wrong. But I always check the links I put and if it works with me, it's seems not the link that is to blame when you try to follow it.
SARA
CSSHEGEWISCHThe 1000-footers are confined to Lake Erie and upstream by the size of the locks on the Welland Canal. That being said, tree's comment would easily apply to the Soo Canal as well.
BaltACD tree68 BaltACD I wonder if the Canal authorities will formulate a rule for the future that vessels have to be shorter than the canal is wide at its narrowest point. There are spots on the St Lawrence Seaway that would have trouble with that - especially with the 1,000 foot ore boats. I thought the 1000 foot ore boats were 'lakers' and only navigate the Great Lakes, not the St. Lawrence Seaway.
tree68 BaltACD I wonder if the Canal authorities will formulate a rule for the future that vessels have to be shorter than the canal is wide at its narrowest point. There are spots on the St Lawrence Seaway that would have trouble with that - especially with the 1,000 foot ore boats.
BaltACD I wonder if the Canal authorities will formulate a rule for the future that vessels have to be shorter than the canal is wide at its narrowest point.
I wonder if the Canal authorities will formulate a rule for the future that vessels have to be shorter than the canal is wide at its narrowest point.
There are spots on the St Lawrence Seaway that would have trouble with that - especially with the 1,000 foot ore boats.
I thought the 1000 foot ore boats were 'lakers' and only navigate the Great Lakes, not the St. Lawrence Seaway.
BaltACD I wonder if the Canal authorities will formulate a rule for the future that vessels have to be shorter than the canal is wide at its narrowest point/
I wonder if the Canal authorities will formulate a rule for the future that vessels have to be shorter than the canal is wide at its narrowest point/
The canal shipping lane is already much narrower than the water between the banks. One of the technical experts stated that the 200 ft. wide Ever Given, following the centerline, only has only 36 feet on each side before grounding.
One expert suggested that for the monster ships like Ever Given, they could provide safety by connecting ocean tugboats fore and aft. The newest classes of ocean tugs have rotating propulsion units that can move the boat in any direction with instant changes as needed. So they could maintain various pulls to help a ship stay on course while transiting the canal.
The ocean tugs are quite amazing in their own right.
Sara T Now it seems ever-ything is given fine: earlier report: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKvGKTsAoO4 Suez Canal: How to keep ships from running aground in the future | DW News https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/casualty/suez-canal-authority-video-ever-given-salvage-operations https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/casualty/ever-given-blocking-suez-canal-re-floated The Ever Given, containership blocking the Suez Canal, has been re-floated, and manoeuvres are set to be undertaken to fully restore the direction of vessel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUwWcoIlHwM Cargo ship the Ever Given freed from the Suez Canal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNjUt7FYG2s News Alert: Ever Given ship blocking Suez Canal successfully 'refloated' | Latest English News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP-e4os617c Container ship blocking the Suez Canal partially freed | DW News I believe we have all for-ever given her / it? our best wishes for future course. Oh, here is some explanation of how shipping works today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CIgHnH-1zo latest news: full moon tide helped to free ship and now moving https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Mo1tibl1w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8ej5R4cvdg Sara
Now it seems ever-ything is given fine:
earlier report:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKvGKTsAoO4
Suez Canal: How to keep ships from running aground in the future | DW News
https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/casualty/suez-canal-authority-video-ever-given-salvage-operations
https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/casualty/ever-given-blocking-suez-canal-re-floated
The Ever Given, containership blocking the Suez Canal, has been re-floated, and manoeuvres are set to be undertaken to fully restore the direction of vessel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUwWcoIlHwM
Cargo ship the Ever Given freed from the Suez Canal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNjUt7FYG2s
News Alert: Ever Given ship blocking Suez Canal successfully 'refloated' | Latest English News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP-e4os617c
Container ship blocking the Suez Canal partially freed | DW News
I believe we have all for-ever given her / it? our best wishes for future course.
Oh, here is some explanation of how shipping works today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CIgHnH-1zo
latest news: full moon tide helped to free ship and now moving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Mo1tibl1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8ej5R4cvdg
BaltACD Murphy Siding Murphy Siding blue streak 1 Here is a link to a back hoe trying to move sand away from the bow. Kind of gives a new meaning of gnat and person size. An excavator is trying to help free a ship stuck in the Suez Canal, but a photo shows how hard that'll be (msn.com) Seeing how the soil there is all sand, it makes sense to me that they would come in with some pumping equipment to wash out underneath the ship. Where do I send the bill for my consulting? Undersand they had to remove between 20 & 30K cubic yards of material from under the bow. I doubt that the banks of the canal are exclusively sand - tidal currents would keep the sand moving. I understand the vessel was operating at about 13 Knots when the incident happened - 13 Knots and 224K tons creates a lot of momentum when it comes to impacing anything.
Murphy Siding Murphy Siding blue streak 1 Here is a link to a back hoe trying to move sand away from the bow. Kind of gives a new meaning of gnat and person size. An excavator is trying to help free a ship stuck in the Suez Canal, but a photo shows how hard that'll be (msn.com) Seeing how the soil there is all sand, it makes sense to me that they would come in with some pumping equipment to wash out underneath the ship. Where do I send the bill for my consulting?
Murphy Siding blue streak 1 Here is a link to a back hoe trying to move sand away from the bow. Kind of gives a new meaning of gnat and person size. An excavator is trying to help free a ship stuck in the Suez Canal, but a photo shows how hard that'll be (msn.com) Seeing how the soil there is all sand, it makes sense to me that they would come in with some pumping equipment to wash out underneath the ship.
blue streak 1 Here is a link to a back hoe trying to move sand away from the bow. Kind of gives a new meaning of gnat and person size. An excavator is trying to help free a ship stuck in the Suez Canal, but a photo shows how hard that'll be (msn.com)
Here is a link to a back hoe trying to move sand away from the bow. Kind of gives a new meaning of gnat and person size.
An excavator is trying to help free a ship stuck in the Suez Canal, but a photo shows how hard that'll be (msn.com)
Seeing how the soil there is all sand, it makes sense to me that they would come in with some pumping equipment to wash out underneath the ship.
Where do I send the bill for my consulting?
Undersand they had to remove between 20 & 30K cubic yards of material from under the bow. I doubt that the banks of the canal are exclusively sand - tidal currents would keep the sand moving.
I understand the vessel was operating at about 13 Knots when the incident happened - 13 Knots and 224K tons creates a lot of momentum when it comes to impacing anything.
Paul MilenkovicYou think the Egyptian authorities have that outfit from Netherlands on speed-dial?
Just like the railroads have certain outfits, like for instance the crane outfit that was a major player in the cleanup of that Santa Fe Junction derailment in KC a while back. Stuff happens. Be Prepared. Etc.
tree68 Measured by throwing a chunk of wood off the stern and counting how many knots in the rope passed during a specific period of time.
Measured by throwing a chunk of wood off the stern and counting how many knots in the rope passed during a specific period of time.
Presumably updated when the nautical mile was set to equal one minute of longitude at the equator. If the earth was a perfect sphere, 5,400 nautical miles (90 degrees of longitude latitude at the equator) would have equaled 10,000km (90 degrees of longitude - equator to nothpole via Paris). The latter is slightly less due to the earth being an oblate spheroid and measurement error by the French.
MC: Feel free to step in and point out where I may be leading people astray...
Convicted One: Thanks for the heads up
You think the Egyptian authorities have that outfit from Netherlands on speed-dial?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Wars have been started for lessor things than that!
Semper Vaporo For those of us where a "Knot" is what the shoestrings get into when you are in a hurry to put your shoes on; 13-Knots converts to 14.96-MPH or 24.076-Km/h. And for the jet pilots, that is Mach 0.02
For those of us where a "Knot" is what the shoestrings get into when you are in a hurry to put your shoes on;
13-Knots converts to 14.96-MPH or 24.076-Km/h.
And for the jet pilots, that is Mach 0.02
Just reported: Canal now open and ships are passing through. The ship that was stuck has been moved to a location where it will be inspected and repaired before continuing toward its destination.
Another look at salvage operations. It is complicated as the ship is flexing with every high and low tide.
MV Ever Given: What's Going on in the Suez Part 4: Nick Sloane joins us thanks to gCaptain. - YouTube
Most Containers too heavy for the Russian heavy lift helicopters. HAX MAT cargo in the containers may be a problem.
Another highly detailed and informative explanation of how the ship lost control and how the refloating must be carried out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iyn2q6s1Sk
It sounds like the ship was going too fast for conditions, and also made a bad move trying to recover from running off course in the wind. There is a lot of concern about the risk of catastrophe such as upsetting the ship or breaking it in half. There is already leakage in the bow area from the impact of grounding. But the leakage is confined to an isolated compartment and is being pumped out.
More about constructing a ULCC (Ultra Large Container Carrier)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3BzAjswJTc
Now there are plans to partially unload the ship. A thought. Will the persons have actualy weights of each container so that ship does not end up unbalanced ? It would be nice if someoe who has experience in loading and unloading these ships could chime in.
Boat blocking Suez Canal to be unloaded to make moving it easier (msn.com)
Does anyone know the status of the all rail routes from far east to Europe. Is it running at capacity and if not how much surge could they take?. Realize that would only be a very very small percentage of total container traffic.
Some insights to the 200K+ Ton Container Ships
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2JMaJTFSvw
BaltACD
>>The man is a cargo airline pilot and his normal area of reportage and expertise is in things aircraft. Both aircraft and watercraft have to deal with fluid dynamics - on one the fluid is air, on the other the fluid is water. Mix 182K square feet of 'sail' space with a 40+ knot sustained winds and you have the Ever Given. Mother Nature overpowers the human created machine.
The canal is a tidal body of water and the salvors are making their 'best efforts' during high tides. There is a Full Moon this weekend and the tides should be a little bit higher. Whether the salvors will have success is open to question.<<
I have written you a pm about this.
Here again is someone referring to the ship being “wedged diagonally” between the two banks. Yet this is not the case. What is holding the ship in place is that it has ridden up onto the shallower portion of the canal bottom. It is grounded, not wedged.
They do have to excavate soil toward the upper part of the screen to permit the bow to be swung out away from the bank, as he says. But they also have to excavate probably a larger area out from under the ship as well to allow the ship to resume floating in that area.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE8b1GWoTWk
Another interesting voice:
The pictures we have seen of the excavator digging near the bow of the vessel - the thing that the picture doesn't capture is that the bottom of the vessel 45 to 50 feet BELOW the level from which the picture was taken.
The digging and dredging the equipment that is needed to 'really get the job done' doesn't exist. The further down you dig with excavators, the further away from the center point of your dig you get as the footing under the excavator, being unsupported falls toward the area excavated. Dredges normally work a narrow area adjacent to the spoil barge, they don't have the ability to reach out the 30 meters to get under the centerline of the hull.
I have no real idea of the details of the salvage contract the SMIT has with the owners - a customary contract is 'No cure, No pay'. Salvage organizations don't remain in business long if the don't bring cure to the casualties - the expenses incured in salvage are astronomical, and payment only comes on a 'successful' conclusion.
Sara T Balt ACD That may well be, but still he fills the classics of a man not trustworthy, that I can tell. Do you know what good a pilot he is?
Balt ACD
That may well be, but still he fills the classics of a man not trustworthy, that I can tell. Do you know what good a pilot he is?
RFT 376: Youtube Star Juan Browne (readyfortakeoffpodcast.com)
A very informative and likely accurate article on the stuck ship:
The problem is not the bow and stern being poked into the canal banks, although it appears that way in the photos. But, what is actually holding the ship is the fact that its hull bottom is resting on the canal bottom.
There are constant references to sand as being the soil type, but reports indicate that it is actually mostly clay and rocks.
The diagram in this article shows that the canal is 80 feet deep near the center, and then tapers to a shallower depth near each bank. When the ship turned crosswise, the hull rode up onto the shallower shoulders of the canal in a “cam” action.
Excavating out from under the ship requires extreme excavating reach capable of accessing the total area of canal bottom supporting the hull. I would estimate that this support area may be 100 feet wide. I understand that the ship deck is about 200 feet wide.
A big factor in trying to rotate the ship with tugs is the possibility of damaging it. Ships would seem to be robust due to their size, but actually in relation to their size they are remarkably delicate. It is possible that this grounding has already inflicted some hull damage, and attempts to free it pose a lot more risk of damage.
Informative article from the Independent:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/suez-canal-latest-blockage-tide-ever-given-b1823493.html
An example of a ship bound from Asia to the US East Coast is the Maersk Athabaska currently scheduled to depart from Tanjung Pelepas, Malaysia on March 31, 2021 with scheduled unloading in Savannah, Georgia on May 5th, 2021. This ship would have transited the Suez Canal on April 14-15 but probably won't now. Intermediate stops are Columbo(Sri Lanka), Salalah (Oman), Seuz, Newark, and Norfolk. Probably lots of apparel on that ship. Of course this is just one shipping company.
Sara T Balt ACD, the reportage by the fat 'important' swaggering man When I first saw this guy I wondered how much you can believe of what he says, he is the type of bragging and tampering thing together to make a hit of it. Then comes the point: The suez canal is "about 20 meters deep" this reporter says, the graphic shown at the same time reads 15,7 meters. He makes typical moves like looking up at 5:52 and repeatedly further on that people make when they are insecure .. Not very trustworthy man this one. I cannot believe he knows much about aviation. Well that's just from my observation of his behaviour. As for the ship I would say it was hit sideways by the storm and with its own speed then ran into the bank mainly with the right part of the bow, this sudden stop turned the ship to the left with its free hulk and the rear got stuck into the other bank. If the water level of the canal is not subject to tide and is the same as when it happened there should be very little font and aft lift if any because the ends of the ship went into the banks straight level and not way up. Taking off cargo would lift the ship but how would they debark cargo there? Digging out the ends of the ship would appear best to me. But as commerce is, the pressure to reopen the canal may become so strong that they might decide to cut it up just to get the canal free the sooner. SARA 05003
Balt ACD, the reportage by the fat 'important' swaggering man
When I first saw this guy I wondered how much you can believe of what he says, he is the type of bragging and tampering thing together to make a hit of it. Then comes the point: The suez canal is "about 20 meters deep" this reporter says, the graphic shown at the same time reads 15,7 meters. He makes typical moves like looking up at 5:52 and repeatedly further on that people make when they are insecure .. Not very trustworthy man this one. I cannot believe he knows much about aviation. Well that's just from my observation of his behaviour.
As for the ship I would say it was hit sideways by the storm and with its own speed then ran into the bank mainly with the right part of the bow, this sudden stop turned the ship to the left with its free hulk and the rear got stuck into the other bank.
If the water level of the canal is not subject to tide and is the same as when it happened there should be very little font and aft lift if any because the ends of the ship went into the banks straight level and not way up. Taking off cargo would lift the ship but how would they debark cargo there? Digging out the ends of the ship would appear best to me.
But as commerce is, the pressure to reopen the canal may become so strong that they might decide to cut it up just to get the canal free the sooner.
SARA 05003
Swaggering? Try stuttering. The man appears to have a mild speech disfluency, and he is doing the best he is able to. There are all manners of conditions and brain disfunctions affecting human speech, but the great mystery of stuttering is that most people who stutter don't have a single thing wrong with their muscles or their nerves or their brain.
He is untruthful because he is constantly looking up?
I think he is looking up at his written script. During the COVID lockdown, I was helping someone in my household give a prepared speech for their work by talking into a laptop computer with a camera and microphone, and this is a lot harder than it looks. We tried to work on the side glances to the speech taped to the wall next to the computer and we pretty much gave up on went with the "take" we had.
15.7 m is labelled in the diagram as the draft of the ship whereas he states that the depth of the canal is 19-20 m.
Fat? What did Juan Brown do to offend a person?
He explains that he is a airplane pilot but his YouTbue viewers asked that he comment on the Ever Given ship accident. He explained what is known and commented that an investigation will give more answers. He offered a calculation that strong winds could make this ship impossible to control, even if everything on the ship were working perfectly. He also explained the impact on international commerce.
A person should be concerned that many of the necessities of daily life could get scarce or expensive in the weeks and months ahead. So much of everyday living depends on the movements of those ships.
tree68 SD60MAC9500 Yes Ever Given has bow thrusters but they are of no use in its position Given the situation, I suspect they were less than effective for dealing with the crosswind.
SD60MAC9500 Yes Ever Given has bow thrusters but they are of no use in its position
Given the situation, I suspect they were less than effective for dealing with the crosswind.
They wouldn't be able to counter the wind at all. Use of the thrusters in high wind scenario based on speed and direction could do more harm than good.
BaltACD My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages.
My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages.
You're understanding is right. Liner services have multiple ports of call.
SD60MAC9500Yes Ever Given has bow thrusters but they are of no use in its position
blue streak 1 Do these ships have the maneuvering steering tunnels in the bow ? Someone here may know a link to ship fans that may know more ? A Satellite images of back ups. Satellite imagery shows work underway to free ship Ever Given in the Suez Canal (msn.com)
Do these ships have the maneuvering steering tunnels in the bow ? Someone here may know a link to ship fans that may know more ? A Satellite images of back ups.
Satellite imagery shows work underway to free ship Ever Given in the Suez Canal (msn.com)
If you're talking about bow thrusters. Yes Ever Given has them but they are of no use in its position.
>>Mix 182K square feet of 'sail' space with a 40+ knot sustained winds and you have the Ever Given.<<
That's very much what I wrote: the Ever Given ever given to the wind to scratch the bank. It seems to me they have arrived at the same misproportioning of size and maneuverablity as with the Titanic. Now they have these side thrusters but their thrust is too small. Well if it was larger it would cause upheval in a harbor when used.
>>The canal is a tidal body <<
Outch!
Does an illconceived name make itself noticed here? they say the ship had a misfortune in the Elbe at Hamburg in 2019 .. Ever Given to misfortune? I hope not!
Sara 05003
The man is a cargo airline pilot and his normal area of reportage and expertise is in things aircraft. Both aircraft and watercraft have to deal with fluid dynamics - on one the fluid is air, on the other the fluid is water. Mix 182K square feet of 'sail' space with a 40+ knot sustained winds and you have the Ever Given. Mother Nature overpowers the human created machine.
The canal is a tidal body of water and the salvors are making their 'best efforts' during high tides. There is a Full Moon this weekend and the tides should be a little bit higher. Whether the salvors will have success is open to question.
charlie hebdo BaltACD charlie hebdo Containers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports. My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages. Vessels transiting the Suez Canal are mostly involved in the Europe - Near & Far East trades. The large ocean carriers, such as Evergreen, have scheduled service that spans the globe. All true, but very little impact on US railroads' intermodal trains.
BaltACD charlie hebdo Containers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports. My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages. Vessels transiting the Suez Canal are mostly involved in the Europe - Near & Far East trades. The large ocean carriers, such as Evergreen, have scheduled service that spans the globe.
charlie hebdo Containers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports.
My understanding - and I could be very wrong - container ships have multiple ports of call in their scheduled voyages. Vessels transiting the Suez Canal are mostly involved in the Europe - Near & Far East trades.
The large ocean carriers, such as Evergreen, have scheduled service that spans the globe.
All true, but very little impact on US railroads' intermodal trains.
Except for the flotilla of ships along the West Coast of the USA that are waiting to be docked and unloaded - with at least a portion of the containers unloaded being hauled from the coast by rail. Reportedly it will take 4 to 6 months to work the backlog of ships to the point of the ports being 'fluid'.
Semper VaporoPersonally, I think there was a tail-wind slightly from right to left. The ship was turned slightly, either due to a stronger wind near the back of the ship (that is a long boat!), or as they initially claimed, the ship lost steering. Anyway, the rear slipping to the left pointed the front of the ship into the right bank where it ran aground and stopped. The tailwind now was pushing the ship sideways and that ran the rear of the ship onto the left bank. If it had not hit the left bank it would have done a full 180 in the channel, pivoting on the front in the right bank. They will have to lighten the rear of the ship to pull it sideways off the bank and then continue pulling backward to get the front loose and the ship straight in the channel.
The ship was turned slightly, either due to a stronger wind near the back of the ship (that is a long boat!), or as they initially claimed, the ship lost steering. Anyway, the rear slipping to the left pointed the front of the ship into the right bank where it ran aground and stopped. The tailwind now was pushing the ship sideways and that ran the rear of the ship onto the left bank.
If it had not hit the left bank it would have done a full 180 in the channel, pivoting on the front in the right bank.
They will have to lighten the rear of the ship to pull it sideways off the bank and then continue pulling backward to get the front loose and the ship straight in the channel.
Reports are that the wind was sustained at over 40 kt with higher gusts. Considering that from the water line to the top level of the containers is 140 feet all along the 1300 foot length, make the vessel a 182k square foot sail. Given the wind velocity and the 'sail area' - Mother Nature's will be done, on Earth.
Personally, I think there was a tail-wind slightly from right to left.
Here is satellite view of container ship. This is just speculation but the way the bow is more impaled on the east side it apears that the wind that pushed the bow was a quartering headwind from the NW. Otherwise the stern might have been pushed into the east bank ?
The way winds work it might have been a sudden gust from different direction of the prevailing wind. Happens often when flyng into airports in strong winds.
Latest satellite images show efforts to free the giant container ship, Ever Given, stuck in Suez Canal (msn.com)
A vision from an aircraft perspective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLFmojnXtk0
My understanding is that the shipping lane through the canal is much narrower than the canal waterway. So the ship is not merely stuck by having each end jammed horizontally into the waterway banks, as one might assume looking at the photos.
What actually happened was the ship being rotated so its bow and stern rode up onto the shallower bottom extending out some considerable distance from the waterway side walls. So it is not jammed side to side in the canal. In is grounded on the shallow bottom of the canal within maybe 50-75 feet of each end of the ship. So the ship is somewhat suspended like a bridge.
When the ship lost control, it was still completely afloat, so there is no reason why its mid-section is not still afloat. But a portion of its total weight has been shifted from buoyancy support in the mid-section to solid sand bottom support near each end of the ship. That would mean that there is open water from one side of the ship to the other under the mid-section.
Having the ship suspended like bridge is putting abnormal stress on the hull. Such stress could cause the ship to break in two near the mid-section. The article does mention the risk of structural damage to the ship from being unevenly supported as it is.
Once the sand is removed under each end of the ship, it will be properly afloat, but it will still not be able to be rotated to align with the canal route. Even after the sand is removed from under each end of the ship, those ends will be sitting in “notches” cut into the sand bottom. The sides of notches will prevent the ship from being rotated into alignment with the canal. So what would then be required is to dredge out a lot more sand on one side of one notch to allow the ship rotate completely out of the notch while withdrawing from the opposite end notch.
Will it take a 'worm' to refloat the Ever Given?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/03/26/full-worm-moon-rise-sunday-evening-but-supermoon/6999775002/
Worm Moon that is.
charlie hebdoContainers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports.
Containers from where come through Suez bound for East and Gulf coast ports? Many? I doubt it. My impression was that most Suez container traffic went to European ports.
blue streak 1More probable half hearted attempts to free ship ? Plan made to refloat ship blocking Suez Canal using tide (msn.com)
Plan made to refloat ship blocking Suez Canal using tide (msn.com)
When working in tidal waters - no refloating attempts of a vessel can be undertaken without the assists provided by high tide. Some tides are higher than others.
The article seems to indicate that the finger pointing for cause is well underway as there was allegation of mechanical failure and that is now being refuted - let the games begin.
More probable half hearted attempts to free ship ?
https://news.yahoo.com/trains-collide-southern-egypt-killing-120818092.html
So first train stopped suddenly and second ran into it ? No signal system ? definitely no PTC! case of following too closely ?
As if the Suez Canal situation isn't bad enough for Egypt.
Railroad issues -
samfp1943Been srt f loselyh following tosstoryu on the [ModelIntermodal web site] And some of the 'speculation' here as well... The tonage involved with the grunded vessel in the Suez is. I think,is listed at abt 422,000 (tons) Gross Wt (?). ecall the grounding and ca;psikzing of the ;passenger ship Costa Concrdia off the Italian coast (@ Giglio ) in Spring of 2012 ? It was carrying, IIRC 4,000 passengers (and crew?). It was abut 8 years old, at the time of its sinking(?) new cost was (estimated @ $612 million ) . Salvage ro get floating, and towable to a salvage point took into 2015; it was towed to Genoa, Italy to be cut up. That was finished in 2015. Salvage costs were estimated to be in the area of some $18.5 millions. Was finished in 2018 (?) . Recall that the Costa's Captain was tried and convicted of a number of deaths in the sinking f the Costa Concrdia.
ecall the grounding and ca;psikzing of the ;passenger ship Costa Concrdia off the Italian coast (@ Giglio ) in Spring of 2012 ? It was carrying, IIRC 4,000 passengers (and crew?). It was abut 8 years old, at the time of its sinking(?) new cost was (estimated @ $612 million ) .
Salvage ro get floating, and towable to a salvage point took into 2015; it was towed to Genoa, Italy to be cut up. That was finished in 2015. Salvage costs were estimated to be in the area of some $18.5 millions. Was finished in 2018 (?) . Recall that the Costa's Captain was tried and convicted of a number of deaths in the sinking f the Costa Concrdia.
Don't believe the groundings of the two vessels mentioned are in anyway analogous. Costa Concordia's Captian was making a 'joy ride' pass of the off course area where the vessel grounded.
Reports I have previously seen list the Ever Given at 224K tons. I doubt that the Suez Canal pilots were having the vessel 'joy ride'.
Been sort of losely following this story on the [ModelIntermodal web site]. And some of the 'speculation' ,here as well... The tonage involved with the grunded vessel, the Ever Given in the Suez, is I think,is listed at abt 422,000 (tons) Gross Wt (?).
Recall the grounding and capsizing of the passenger ship, Costa Concrdia off the Italian coast (@ Giglio ) in Spring of 2012 ? It was carrying, IIRC 4,000 passengers (and crew?). It was abut 8 years old, at the time of its sinking(?); new cost was (estimated @ $612 million ) .
Salvage to get it refloated, and towable to a salvage point took into 2015; it was towed to Genoa, Italy to be cut up. That was finished in 2015. Salvage costs were estimated to be in the area of some $18.5 millions(3x value of vessel when new). Was finished in 2018 (?) . Recall that the Costa's Captain was tried and convicted of a number of deaths in the sinking f the Costa Concrdia.
A couple of things will probably be true in this case of the Ever Given, It will take opre time than expected, will cost owner's(?) majpr bucks, and give employment to a lot of lawyers for a long time.
blue streak 1Do these ships have the maneuvering steering tunnels in the bow ?
There are some markings on the bow I do not recognize - they don't resemble those I see on ships I see on the Seaway for bow thrusters. The Wiki for the ship, however, notes that it has two bow thrusters, but no stern thrusters.
Euclid One prediction is that the ship will be freed over the weekend, and the salvage company says it could be weeks. A plan under consideration is to lighten the ship by removing fuel, but that reduces stability and poses a risk of capsize. Wouldn't that be something. Spill all of those containers into the canal and leave the ship on its side. This detail has been announced: "The SCA said Thursday after meeting with the Dutch salvage firm SMIT, which is helping lead the operation, that about 19,600-26,000 cubic yards of sand had to be moved, reaching a depth of 40 to 50 feet along the canal's bank, to dislodge the ship." [I assume that is 19,600-26,000 c.y.]
One prediction is that the ship will be freed over the weekend, and the salvage company says it could be weeks. A plan under consideration is to lighten the ship by removing fuel, but that reduces stability and poses a risk of capsize. Wouldn't that be something. Spill all of those containers into the canal and leave the ship on its side.
This detail has been announced:
"The SCA said Thursday after meeting with the Dutch salvage firm SMIT, which is helping lead the operation, that about 19,600-26,000 cubic yards of sand had to be moved, reaching a depth of 40 to 50 feet along the canal's bank, to dislodge the ship."
[I assume that is 19,600-26,000 c.y.]
in Europe they place periods in numbers where in the US we place commas
EuclidOne prediction is that the ship will be freed over the weekend, and the salvage company says it could be weeks. A plan under consideration is to lighten the ship by removing fuel, but that reduces stability and poses a risk of capsize. Wouldn't that be something. Spill all of those containers into the canal and leave the ship on its side. This detail has been announced: "The SCA said Thursday after meeting with the Dutch salvage firm SMIT, which is helping lead the operation, that about 19,600-26,000 cubic yards of sand had to be moved, reaching a depth of 40 to 50 feet along the canal's bank, to dislodge the ship." [I assume that is 19,600-26,000 c.y.]
SMIT is recognized world wide for their vessel salvage abilities. There are numerous YouTube videos of their salvage efforts on a variety of casualties.
York1 Murphy Siding That could conveivably push the bow into the east bank. How did the tail end of the ship get buried into the west bank? Wouldn't the same wind tend to push the tail end east as well? Not being a ship expert or an engineer, I'll venture a guess that once one part hit the bank and stopped, the huge forward motion force would drive the rest of the ship sideways, swinging it around to the opposite side. Of course, knowing me, I'm sure I'm completely wrong.
Murphy Siding That could conveivably push the bow into the east bank. How did the tail end of the ship get buried into the west bank? Wouldn't the same wind tend to push the tail end east as well?
Not being a ship expert or an engineer, I'll venture a guess that once one part hit the bank and stopped, the huge forward motion force would drive the rest of the ship sideways, swinging it around to the opposite side. Of course, knowing me, I'm sure I'm completely wrong.
Reports that I viewed said the wind blew the stern onto the West Bank of the canal - the bow just pivoted along the center of pressure. Report also stated that all this took place in a sand storm that obscured visibility. The vessel was Northbound through the canal.
tree68 Given reports that the ship was having problems with it's steering gear before entering the canal, it's possible that the wind started things by pushing the ship (which presented a large "sail area), then the steering gear wasn't up to the job. The momentum idea does deserve consideration.
Given reports that the ship was having problems with it's steering gear before entering the canal, it's possible that the wind started things by pushing the ship (which presented a large "sail area), then the steering gear wasn't up to the job.
The momentum idea does deserve consideration.
It's being reported that Ever Given suffered a power failure that essentially handicapped the vessel losing its propulsion and steering capability. This makes sense as it allows the current and wind to swing the vessel and ground it into the banks of the canal. They might not have no other choice than to somehow offload some containers from the vessel.
Murphy SidingThat could conveivably push the bow into the east bank. How did the tail end of the ship get buried into the west bank? Wouldn't the same wind tend to push the tail end east as well?
blue streak 1 What will happen in the short futue times when container ships are not arriving on the east coast ?
What will happen in the short futue times when container ships are not arriving on the east coast ?
I'm not entirely sure that will happen. I was under the impression that the group of ships that cycle Europe-US would be a different pool of ships than the Asia-Europe pool that use the Suez. Outbound European shipments to the US wouldn't be directly impacted. The delays come later when Europe-bound ships can't berth, regardless of origin.
I'd suspect that drawing out the chain of inbounds to Europe around Africa could help mitigate port congestion. Shippers and receivers would see vast delays, but the actual berth space might be able to absorb the traffic better than waiting for everyting to surge through the canal when it opens.
They say that the canal saves 10 days from a journey that would otherwise be routed around Africa. Perhaps just a "rare mileage" opportunity for ships crews?
Seems to me that hydraulic mining equipment would be a good tool to put in service to try and free the ship.
Due to Ever Given's grounding in the canal. Some vessels are turning around to take the Cape Route around Africa.
These reports of long delays for salvage reinforces the question. What will happen in the short futue times when container ships are not arriving on the east coast ? Scheduling of containers to east coast ports ( including gulf ) may cause them to be held back in a lot of rail yards, Those ships that can go to west coast ports is another question. Are RRs nimble enough to start planning and maybe instituting embargos ?
With the back ups at the Pannama canal will there be some US and Canadian land bridge container trains. I imagine Greyhounds can think of many more problems ?
Think I will chage the title.
With the back ups at the Pannama canal will there be some US and Canadian land bridge container trains. I imagine Greyhounds can think of many more problems ?u
I am sure that the ship is still partly supported by buoyancy over its entire length but reports say that when it rotated, both ends rode up on the sand and assumed additional weight loading through the bow and stern.
Read reports that what the ship is hung up on is much more rock than sand. Which is what you would expect at the edges of the canal - rock will hold the canal's perimeter, sand would wash along with the movement of the water.
Euclid Just having the ship supported mostly on the ends could do a lot of damage that we cannot see from the photos.
I'm pretty sure the ship is still afloat - just aground at both ends. Unless the water level of the canal is being lowered, the ship is not just supported at the ends.
The ship is around 1,300 feet long. As such it's designed to be able to handle longitudinal stresses - it encounters them all the time on the open seas. I was on a 440 foot Navy vessel in 15-20 foot seas - it was quite a ride...
Check out some videos of ships in big waves.
Euclid BaltACD 400 meters long, 59 meters wide, 224K tons. Egypt doesn't have any cranes capable of reaching the top containers on the vessel to unload them to another vessel. Pumping off fuel and/ballast to lighten the load risk capsizing the vessel. That is why salvage contractors earn their money. Yes of course it will obviously require salvage companies to do the work of unloading the containers and fuel. They could cut the ship in two or more pieces if necessary. They can saw through with a special cutting cable. But this refloat operation could take a lot longer than the few days they are hoping for. Just having the ship supported mostly on the ends could do a lot of damage that we cannot see from the photos. I think we will be hearing a growing predicted timeframe for refloating the ship. If it gets out to weeks, they may decide the cost of the delay is higher than the value of the ship and its load.
BaltACD 400 meters long, 59 meters wide, 224K tons. Egypt doesn't have any cranes capable of reaching the top containers on the vessel to unload them to another vessel. Pumping off fuel and/ballast to lighten the load risk capsizing the vessel. That is why salvage contractors earn their money.
400 meters long, 59 meters wide, 224K tons. Egypt doesn't have any cranes capable of reaching the top containers on the vessel to unload them to another vessel. Pumping off fuel and/ballast to lighten the load risk capsizing the vessel.
That is why salvage contractors earn their money.
Yes of course it will obviously require salvage companies to do the work of unloading the containers and fuel. They could cut the ship in two or more pieces if necessary. They can saw through with a special cutting cable.
But this refloat operation could take a lot longer than the few days they are hoping for. Just having the ship supported mostly on the ends could do a lot of damage that we cannot see from the photos. I think we will be hearing a growing predicted timeframe for refloating the ship. If it gets out to weeks, they may decide the cost of the delay is higher than the value of the ship and its load.
Salvors have been cutting on the Golden Ray that capsized in Brunswick, GA harbor in September 2019 since November 2020. They have managed to get the hull cut in three pieces to be hauled to the scrapper so far; it is expected for the hull to be cut into eight pieces for final disposition.
Smit is one of the contracted salvors for the Ever Given - there is no way the vessel will be cut up on site.
I saw a piece on CNN Business that they are now saying it could takes weeks or months to refloat the ship. They are trying to move tha sand away from the ship. But who knows how long it will actually take?
Caldreamer
Would a heavy payload military helicopter be able to lift a loaded container?
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-egypt-suezcanal-ship-idUSKBN2BH1HH
From the link:
ISMAILIA, Egypt (Reuters) - A container ship blocking the Suez Canal like a “beached whale” sent new shockwaves through global trade on Thursday as officials stopped all ships entering the channel and the salvage company said it may take weeks to free.
It may require unloading the ship in addition to dredging sand. The size of the ship and number of containers is startling.
This type of scenario could easily play out in any number of canals. There are spots in the St. Lawrence Seaway near me where a 700' ship would likely touch both shores.
There is a ship sunk in the American Narrows here that is a popular destination for recreational divers. At 700', the Roy A Jodery would likely have spanned the waterway. The bow is 150' down, the stern sits at 240' - too deep for your average hobby diver.
blue streak 1Another report. Early Thursday morning local time another dtry tto free the vessel. May shows how idt is locked in sideways. Wonder if wind conditions might have contributed to it going sideways ? After being bottlenecked in the Suez Canal for days, the owner of the cargo ship Ever Given is potentially facing millions of dollars in insurance claims (msn.com) Does the canal use pilots for going thru the canal ?
After being bottlenecked in the Suez Canal for days, the owner of the cargo ship Ever Given is potentially facing millions of dollars in insurance claims (msn.com)
Does the canal use pilots for going thru the canal ?
Have watched a YouTube video or two of vessels transiting the Suez Canal. Vessels do get a Pilot - it is part of the fees they pay for passage. Transit of any of the worlds canals for large commercial vessels is not cheap.
Reports I have read state that the wind was the prime cause of the grounding.
Reports do indicate that a high wind blew the ship off course and turned it crosswise to the canal. Looking at the profile of the ship, you can see how much opportunity it would present to cross wind.
I think the gravity of this predicament has been slow to sink in. The canal authority may want to consider limiting the length of passing ships to be about 100 ft. less than the width of the canal.
It may be possible with enough pull to just pop the ship loose, and eventually enough pull might be made available. The problem is that you have to attach the pull to the ship in an even distribution of pull points on the ship, or it will just pull a chunk out of the ship.
Another report. Early Thursday morning local time another dtry tto free the vessel. May shows how idt is locked in sideways. Wonder if wind conditions might have contributed to it going sideways ?
One of the pitfalls of massive 20,000+ TEU vessels. Harder to re-float when aground..Of note Evergreen has ordered some more vessels but these will only have a capacity of 15,000 TEU. I think overtime we will start seeing new vessel orders trend back in size a little bit. 15-18K TEU
Maybe this will allow the ports to catch up a bit...
SALfan Believe I read late in the day the ship had been moved and the canal is no longer blocked. That won't help already-jammed ports, but the way is open for ships bound to the East Coast thru the Suez Canal.
Believe I read late in the day the ship had been moved and the canal is no longer blocked. That won't help already-jammed ports, but the way is open for ships bound to the East Coast thru the Suez Canal.
That stuck ship is going to be a big deal to get unstuck. There are reports that it may have to be unloaded to get it unstuck. I think it is causing major heartburn with the canal, ship’s owners, and shipping delays to other ships.
But earlier today, they ran a story saying the ship had been refloated. But it seemed suspicious because they also said they will get it totally unstuck soon. That sounded fishy to me. I suspected they were so hoping to get it moving that they thought it would help to announce that they had done so.
As it turns out, that story was false as I suspected. A new report says this:
"Ship has not been re-floated, authorities admit
The Ever Given is still aground in the Suez Canal and authorities are working to refloat it, an official at marine agent GAC said on Wednesday.
Ahmed Mekawy, an assistant manager at GAC's Egypt office, said the Dubai-based agent had earlier received inaccurate information that the mammoth container ship had been partially refloated."
SALfanBelieve I read late in the day the ship had been moved and the canal is no longer blocked. That won't help already-jammed ports, but the way is open for ships bound to the East Coast thru the Suez Canal.
We as railroaders and railroad enthusiasts have very little to no understanding of the maritime trade networks that keep the World Economy humming.
EDIT: I later found out what I read wasn't accurate. Sorry for the misinformation.
BaltACD Understand that there is a continuing backlog of vessels at West Coast ports.
Understand that there is a continuing backlog of vessels at West Coast ports.
I'm reasonably sure there's backlogs at every major port, but Los Angeles/Long Beach is a disaster right now.
My mom currently handles import orders for her company and they've got a group howling that they're going to miss a shipping deadline because their product packaging is stuck in a container sitting off Long Beach indefinitely. She can only tell them "the ship can't even berth" so many times.
Apparently, the ship lost control during a sandstorm with relatively high winds of 31 mph. Perhaps the wind was blowing approximately in line with the canal, and when the ship began to lose control and rotate crosswise to the canal, the wind blew more directly against the side of the ship. With the side presenting such a massive obstruction to the wind, the force grew larger as the ship turned crosswise to the wind. Then both ends wedged into each bank of the canal.
So the ship is not just run aground, but also has both ends pierced into the opposing banks of the canal. As the ship rotated into this position, I wonder if each end of the ship created uplift of the vessel as each end plowed sideways into each bank of the canal. If the ends did produce uplift, that force would tend to lift the entire ship and possibly break it in half due to so much weight being supported at only the two ends and not in the center.
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