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Hoggers

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Posted by mudchicken on Monday, March 22, 2021 10:21 PM

zugmann

 

 
Sunnyland
I said I have had to tell many people who comment about engineer being in charge and I say no, the conductor is, the engineer does not move until the conductor gives him the OK. They say you got that right. 

 

Conductor is going to look mighty funny trying to pull cars with a rope. 

 

May be his train - but they're *my* engines.

Tongue-in-cheek, of course...

 

on my track.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by mudchicken on Monday, March 22, 2021 10:19 PM

BaltACD

 

 
tree68
 
mudchicken
Yuppie Trash Terms created by those coming out of business & finance schools that refused to learn the business from the ground-up. 

Probably fifteen or sixteen years ago, the Army decided that instead of "directorates" the various activities would be know as "business centers."  When I left a few years later, most of the activities had gotten away from the "business center" moniker...

 

Titles are a merry-go-round item.  Everytime the board room changes hands so do the titles of those of the organization's various positions; with each new board saying the change of titles will make the overall organization more efficient and profitable.

 

and to change the pay gradeMischief

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, March 22, 2021 9:22 PM

Electroliner 1935

 

 
Sunnyland

I was on excursion RR a few years ago and when I came up to engineer I said you must be the hogger. He laughed and said I must have had a railroad background and I explained that I did.  I sometimes tell  Amtrak conductors  that I talk to that they used to be called the "brains", they always get a kick out of that teasing each other. They are in charge, one guy told me it is nice to ride with someone who knows what is going on. I said I have had to tell many people who comment about engineer being in charge and I say no, the conductor is, the engineer does not move until the conductor gives him the OK. They say you got that right. 

 

But let it jump the track, watch who gets the blame.

 

Everyone in a radius of 25 miles, until proven otherwise.

Jeff

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Monday, March 22, 2021 12:40 AM

Sunnyland

I was on excursion RR a few years ago and when I came up to engineer I said you must be the hogger. He laughed and said I must have had a railroad background and I explained that I did.  I sometimes tell  Amtrak conductors  that I talk to that they used to be called the "brains", they always get a kick out of that teasing each other. They are in charge, one guy told me it is nice to ride with someone who knows what is going on. I said I have had to tell many people who comment about engineer being in charge and I say no, the conductor is, the engineer does not move until the conductor gives him the OK. They say you got that right. 

But let it jump the track, watch who gets the blame.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, March 21, 2021 9:11 PM

tree68
Sunnyland
I said I have had to tell many people who comment about engineer being in charge and I say no, the conductor is, the engineer does not move until the conductor gives him the OK. They say you got that right.  

I've had the same basic conversation with our passengers.

Then watch everyone here get bent out of shape when newsworkers refer to the 'conductor' being responsible when there's an accident... Smile

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:16 PM

Sunnyland
I said I have had to tell many people who comment about engineer being in charge and I say no, the conductor is, the engineer does not move until the conductor gives him the OK. They say you got that right.   

I've had the same basic conversation with our passengers.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, March 21, 2021 6:49 PM

Sunnyland
I said I have had to tell many people who comment about engineer being in charge and I say no, the conductor is, the engineer does not move until the conductor gives him the OK. They say you got that right. 

Conductor is going to look mighty funny trying to pull cars with a rope. 

 

May be his train - but they're *my* engines.

Tongue-in-cheek, of course...

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Sunday, March 21, 2021 5:59 PM
I remember seeing a woodcut illustration in an old book about RRs, of a "Gandy Dancer" using his pry bar as a lever to hold a tie up against the rail while the spike was driven in.  To keep it tight against the rail while the spike was hit required a lot of leverage.  Often the Gandy Dancer didn't have the weight to hold the lever down in his hands while standing on the ground, so he stood on the end of the bar on one foot, and bounced up and down on the bar coinciding with the hammer blows on the spike.  Balancing on the end of the bar and bouncing up and down was a sort of "dance"... the woodcut illustration was very reminiscent of the 'Crane Stance' from "Karate Kid".

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by Sunnyland on Sunday, March 21, 2021 5:37 PM

I was on excursion RR a few years ago and when I came up to engineer I said you must be the hogger. He laughed and said I must have had a railroad background and I explained that I did.  I sometimes tell  Amtrak conductors  that I talk to that they used to be called the "brains", they always get a kick out of that teasing each other. They are in charge, one guy told me it is nice to ride with someone who knows what is going on. I said I have had to tell many people who comment about engineer being in charge and I say no, the conductor is, the engineer does not move until the conductor gives him the OK. They say you got that right. 

 

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Posted by NKP guy on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 4:23 PM

adkrr64
I, for one, would like know how "gandy dancer" came about. If it takes two to tango, how many does it take to gandy?

   The Wiki article on this in worth reading, but "gandy" refers to the five-foot iron bar each man on the crew would use to nudge the rail perfectly into place.  If you've ever seen old videos of those section crews at work you'd have seen the little dance-type step they use as part of their aligning work.  So it's a term that has dance connotations.  No wonder they sang and worked to cadences.

   This definition is new to me.  I always thought a gandy dancer was the man who held the chisel for another man (such as John Henry) who struck it repeatedly with his sledge hammer in tunnel construction. Or the man who held the spike as it was driven into a crosstie.

   In the video a retired worker repeats the urban legend that there was a Chicago tool or shovel company named Gandy, but the Chicago Historical Society says no such company existed.

   Either way, it was obviously a back-breaking and dangerous job which I'll wager no one ever retired from.

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 4:15 PM

BaltACD
Old time track crews consisted of somewhere between 8 and 12 men - men that manually handled rails and ties.  Jobs the required the synchronized efforts of all the men in the gang.  To harness the power of the men, 'songs' were developed so that each man could exert himself at the same time.  

All working under the guidance of the foreman, who had a calibrated eyeball...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 3:32 PM

adkrr64

If it takes two to tango, how many does it take to gandy?

All the live long day....

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 2:59 PM

adkrr64
 
tree68
There's a book to write (maybe already written) - "Railroad Monikers and How They Came to Be..." 

I, for one, would like know how "gandy dancer" came about. If it takes two to tango, how many does it take to gandy?

Old time track crews consisted of somewhere between 8 and 12 men - men that manually handled rails and ties.  Jobs the required the synchronized efforts of all the men in the gang.  To harness the power of the men, 'songs' were developed so that each man could exert himself at the same time.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=025QQwTwzdU

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by adkrr64 on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 2:32 PM

tree68
There's a book to write (maybe already written) - "Railroad Monikers and How They Came to Be..."

I, for one, would like know how "gandy dancer" came about. If it takes two to tango, how many does it take to gandy?

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 12:41 PM

There's a book to write (maybe already written) - "Railroad Monikers and How They Came to Be..."

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by BigJim on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 11:52 AM

"Hoghead"...A term used by brakemen and conductors because have you ever seen a hog that was able to turn his head around and look behind him?

.

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:10 AM
Didn't the term "dogcatcher" come from hogger?

Regards - Steve

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Posted by Smokey wood stover on Tuesday, March 16, 2021 10:07 AM

In the early 1980's I was a draftsman at British Columbia Railway (later BC Rail).  I was riding in the cab of the lead unit on a northbound freight and was following along in the track chart to see what the different curves and grades looked like.  One of the crew members said "Oh, you have a piglet book".  I was too embarrased at the time to ask what he meant.  Later I learned that a piglet is a trainee engineer or "young hogger".

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, March 11, 2021 7:58 AM

tree68
 
mudchicken
Yuppie Trash Terms created by those coming out of business & finance schools that refused to learn the business from the ground-up. 

Probably fifteen or sixteen years ago, the Army decided that instead of "directorates" the various activities would be know as "business centers."  When I left a few years later, most of the activities had gotten away from the "business center" moniker...

Titles are a merry-go-round item.  Everytime the board room changes hands so do the titles of those of the organization's various positions; with each new board saying the change of titles will make the overall organization more efficient and profitable.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Thursday, March 11, 2021 7:10 AM
 

Flickriver: Most interesting photos tagged with goldenpigservice

The golden years of hogging.

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 10:43 PM

mudchicken
Yuppie Trash Terms created by those coming out of business & finance schools that refused to learn the business from the ground-up.

Probably fifteen or sixteen years ago, the Army decided that instead of "directorates" the various activities would be know as "business centers."  When I left a few years later, most of the activities had gotten away from the "business center" moniker...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2019
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Posted by MMLDelete on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 10:35 PM

Hogger and hoghead nowadays seems mostly to appear in books and articles related to railroading's past.

Or artistically/stylistically, to impart some flavor of the past.

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, March 10, 2021 1:11 AM

jeffhergert

I've heard hoghead used, but not hogger in my terminal.  However, that was by a guy who retired 4 or 5 years ago.  He was about the last of the old heads, many of which used a bit more slang terms than current employees. 

Uncle Pete changed manager titles way before I hired out.  Now it's manager of this, supervisor of that, etc. 

Jeff  

Yuppie Trash Terms created by those coming out of business & finance schools that refused to learn the business from the ground-up.

 

One Division Engineer I worked for labelled the Chief Clerk in the Superintendent's Office as the "Grand Wazzir-Paper Clips" when the new UP titles first appeared in the late 80's. 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:28 PM

I've heard hoghead used, but not hogger in my terminal.  However, that was by a guy who retired 4 or 5 years ago.  He was about the last of the old heads, many of which used a bit more slang terms than current employees. 

Uncle Pete changed manager titles way before I hired out.  Now it's manager of this, supervisor of that, etc. 

Jeff 

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 8:29 PM

Lashup is a purely railfan (dare I say foamer?) term.  I'd get laughed at if I said it at work.  Your/our/the consist, "the power", or units are the proper terms.  A single diesel is referred to as a unit (most common), engine, or locomotive (too many letters so that one isn't used much).  Do not call it "a power" like some new guys do, that is wrong and makes me cringe.  

We have some transfer jobs that are called herders, since they 'herd' units and cars from one yard to another.  They may also be called tramps or tramp yards, since they wander around from place to place, though this term along with "trainmaster" has been banned by CN from official usage for fear of offending someone or conjuring up connotations of slavery.  

The official new name for a front line supervisor is "transportation manager".  A few people now like to call them "plantation managers" instead, this nickname didn't start until trainmaster was banned.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:59 PM

The story I was told is that as locomotives grew fat-boilered on small 'legs' with heavier and heavier augment making them sway, roll, root and occasionally die, with greedy appetite, they got the nickname 'hogs' (and hence the men who ran them then became hoggers instead of, say, throttle artists or ballast scorchers).  Think of it as one of those expressions like hotrodding or ballin' the jack that aren't really current any more.

I wonder: if diesel locomotives can be 'honorary steam locomotives' then some of them could surely be honorary hogs.  Very clearly the New York Central Gravel Gerties qualify.  People are going to say Centipedes do -- but that was a 120mph design that had the wrong nose along with the wrong engines in the carbody: no one would laugh at an A-A set of Essls with 12,000hp and gearing to use every bit of it in under 120' of carbody on much less wheelbase...

"Lashup" of course comes out of an earlier tradition, and had a specific sense of mismatch from there that became lost at some point during its frequent use in the DPM era at Trains.  A properly matched group of locomotives in MU is a 'power consist' (or other expression like 'cow and calf' or 'herd'.  It becomes a lashup when any old group of engines are tied together, and a dog's breakfast when really wrong somehow.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:19 PM

"Hogger" or "Hoghead" is still used, though not it is not as common as in the past.  But pretty much everyone will know what you mean if you use it out on the property around here. 

There are multiple origin stories, the one's I've heard include certain locomotives being referred to as "hogs", either due to their round appearance or greedy consumption of fuel and water.  Or certain engineers being thought of as pigheads when they tried to overrule the conductor and plan switching moves themselves (those fights still happen today).  

I would say it is far more applicable to steam.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Hoggers
Posted by NKP guy on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:09 PM

   In a number of books I own and articles I've read, the term "hoggers" is used as a nickname for locomotive engineers.  But I haven't seen this word used in this way for a few years now.  Has it fallen out of favor (like "lashup")?  Is it more applicable to steam locomotive crews than diesel crews?  And what's its origin?

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