The holdover charge is called demurrage.
jeffhergertBut the videos on box car door safety says you should never load anything against the doors. Pressure on the doors, especially from shifting can damage the doors. Both kinds, plug or sliding. Jeff
You can pack palletized shipments in a truck really tight so they do not shift unless there is a severly violent movement by the trailer.
A long, long time ago when I was a teenager and working in warehouses they used to have these giant inflatable bags they would inflate inside boxcars to stabilize loads sometimes. They only used those if the palletized load did not fit snugly and there was space beween pallet stacked loads that if the car rocked a lot the load had the potential to shift. Not used a lot though, only sometimes.
jeffhergertAmericans had/have cobination doors, too. There were even 40ft box cars with the combination doors. The only thing I can think of is that the plug door can give a better seal. Only use the sliding door for most loads, but the times you need the width of a double door you have it. One "leaky" door is better than two "leaky" doors. Jeff
I think that is it as well......
The mixed design (plug door and regular door) is it is an option for clients that have to load wider loads then the regular sized door will permit, they have the option of widening the opening with the plug door. However, for most clients the plug door remains closed and sealed. I suspect that is why they have that design.
Also, in some cases speed of loading and unloading comes into play when you have a string of boxcars and they want the ability for 2 or more lift trucks to be working the one boxcar in order to unload it faster and get the unloading done in just one shift of the warehouse vs several. I think this would cut the hold over charges or whatever they are called by the railroad for whatever the free limit is (1-2 days?).
Though I think the first rationale is probably the more common one.
mvlandsw The combination door cars provide a wide opening if needed. The plug door provides a smooth interior wall to load against if a wide opening is not needed. Mark Vinski
The combination door cars provide a wide opening if needed. The plug door provides a smooth interior wall to load against if a wide opening is not needed.
Mark Vinski
But the videos on box car door safety says you should never load anything against the doors. Pressure on the doors, especially from shifting can damage the doors. Both kinds, plug or sliding.
Jeff
Thanks, Mark. The optional double-wide door if you need it, but the qualities of a standard boxcar otherwise.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Lithonia OperatorWhy is an open plug door more dangerous than an open sliding door? Because it is protruding beyond normal car width and can strike people or things? Because the extra complexity makes it more fragile and likely to fall off. Are plug doors more likely to fall off than sliding doors, in general? Dude, in your story, was that a plug door?
Are plug doors more likely to fall off than sliding doors, in general?
Dude, in your story, was that a plug door?
Yes on all counts. A plug door is generally heavier than a typical sliding door.
The runners of a sliding door are constructed with the understanding that sliding doors will frequently be moving with the doors open, despite rule that the be closeed. The hardware for plug doors are not made to that level of strength and the mass of the door moving from transportation impacts can relatively easily break the hardware - there is a lot of weight that has to be stopped.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Why is an open plug door more dangerous than an open sliding door? Because it is protruding beyond normal car width and can strike people or things? Because the extra complexity makes it more fragile and likely to fall off.
rdamon Found this while looking around google ... Caution - Opens PDF File https://www.cn.ca/-/media/Files/Customer-Centre/Shipping-Equipment/boxcar-safety-posters-en.pdf
Found this while looking around google ... Caution - Opens PDF File
https://www.cn.ca/-/media/Files/Customer-Centre/Shipping-Equipment/boxcar-safety-posters-en.pdf
Nice find. Thanks!
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
airplanes use plug doors. Door is on outside and goes in catty corner and slides into place from inside.
BaltACDCanadian's - go figure.
Railbox ABOX series cars are like that.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
After my last post I was thinking that maybe if you need a sealed car, you could seal the sliding door opening from the inside (a piece of plywood?) and load the car through the plug door. Does that make sense? Then Jeff mentioned that with both doors open you'd have a double-wide opening. Is there no post between them? Then Larry mentioned the plug door contributing to the structural rigidity of the car, so maybe there is no post between them, and the purpose of the plug door is not to seal the opening but to provide the double-wide opening yet contribute to the strength of the car. Maybe I'm thinking about this too much.
I would opine that the way a plug door sets into the car (as opposed to hanging on the outside) may contribute to the structural stability of the car.
Americans had/have cobination doors, too. There were even 40ft box cars with the combination doors.
The only thing I can think of is that the plug door can give a better seal. Only use the sliding door for most loads, but the times you need the width of a double door you have it. One "leaky" door is better than two "leaky" doors.
Paul of Covington SD70Dude Here is a car with both plug and sliding doors, the plug door is on the left: http://vanderheide.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/S3600232.jpg I assume the reason for using the plug doors is to provide a better seal than sliding doors. If so, what have they accomplished if the sliding door next to it is a "leaky" sliding door? I'm also guessing that the sliding door is easier to use and is there for convenience, but doesn't it defeat the purpose of the plug door?
SD70Dude Here is a car with both plug and sliding doors, the plug door is on the left: http://vanderheide.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/S3600232.jpg
I assume the reason for using the plug doors is to provide a better seal than sliding doors. If so, what have they accomplished if the sliding door next to it is a "leaky" sliding door? I'm also guessing that the sliding door is easier to use and is there for convenience, but doesn't it defeat the purpose of the plug door?
Canadian's - go figure.
SD70DudeHere is a car with both plug and sliding doors, the plug door is on the left: http://vanderheide.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/S3600232.jpg
SD70Dude JPS1 What is a plug door? A plug door retracts in to be flush with the side of the carbody when closed, so as to seal better. All the ones I've seen also have rubber weather stripping around the door (unless it falls off). Plug doors have some extra arms, latches and handles to make the door move in and out and lock it in place.
A plug door retracts in to be flush with the side of the carbody when closed, so as to seal better. All the ones I've seen also have rubber weather stripping around the door (unless it falls off). Plug doors have some extra arms, latches and handles to make the door move in and out and lock it in place.
Thanks!
JPS1 What is a plug door?
What is a plug door?
Here is a car with both plug and sliding doors, the plug door is on the left:
http://vanderheide.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/S3600232.jpg
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I've closed a few plug doors myself over the years, but always made sure to push on the end of the door, not while standing in front of it.
Years before I hired on a door fell off a boxcar and landed on a brakeman. The rest of the crew (all big burly men) ran over and pried it up enough for him to get out. I don't think he ever fully recovered from his injuries though, and one of the rescuers threw out his back while lifting the door.
I've also watched customers attempt to close bent doors that they may or may not have damaged (why admit fault when you can blame the previous customer?). One memorable example had two forklifts pushing on the door, but it wouldn't pop in and they almost pushed the car over. Eventually they gave up and we gently moved the car over to the RIP track, where that door ended up having to be replaced.
BaltACD When I was a operator and attending college at Vincennes University I passed a train as I was driving to school and saw a car in a train that had its 'plug door' rolling back and forth - when I got to a location I could place a call (days before cell phones) and called the Dispatchers Office so the Car Dept. at Shops could take the necessary actions.
When I was a operator and attending college at Vincennes University I passed a train as I was driving to school and saw a car in a train that had its 'plug door' rolling back and forth - when I got to a location I could place a call (days before cell phones) and called the Dispatchers Office so the Car Dept. at Shops could take the necessary actions.
You would be surprised at how many railroaders don't understand the significance of an open plug door. I once told another train that he had an open plug door. The response after a few moments was that it was an empty car.
I've had to educate more than a few about why plug doors need to be closed for movement.
Randy Stahl Im doing an annual 368 day locomotive inspection right now, I'd be delighted to show you how to check the underframe, lube the gear cases, check for water in the support caps tighten bolts etc....
Im doing an annual 368 day locomotive inspection right now, I'd be delighted to show you how to check the underframe, lube the gear cases, check for water in the support caps tighten bolts etc....
Yeah - one of the first things I learned was that shiny is bad.
SD60MAC9500There's also rollby's done by crew members, and sometimes trainmasters if no else is available to help inspect passing trains. I don't know if MoW crews are required to do so when a train passes through their work limits. Many years back when I was up in Port Huron doing air brake test while in the cab. It was not a requirement, but I would do a rollby for CN trains coming, and going to Canada as a courtesy. Seen a few things where I had to get on the radio with CN Police, Customs, or the TM of Port Huron Yard at the time.
Anybody that considers themselves a 'RAILROADER' will perform a rolling inspection of trains as the pass and then, if necessary, report any observations that portend danger to a proper location; be that the Emergency Response number posted on the crossbuck stantion or some other number that is known to the RAILROADER.
Randy StahlI'd be delighted to show you how to check the underframe, lube the gear cases, check for water in the support caps tighten bolts etc....
Man, get one of those 'GoPro' cameras, and start a you-tube channel. I'm sure that many of us here would be regular followers!! I'm 100% sincere about this.
There's also rollby's done by crew members, and sometimes trainmasters if no else is available to help inspect passing trains. I don't know if MoW crews are required to do so when a train passes through their work limits. Many years back when I was up in Port Huron doing air brake test on Amtrak's Blue Water(this was a contract position). While in the cab it was not a requirement, but I would do a rollby for CN trains coming, and going to Canada as a courtesy. Seen a few things where I had to get on the radio with CN Police, Customs, or the TM of Port Huron Yard at the time.
Through trains are given 1000 mile inspections by the Car Dept. at designated locations on the route of the train. These inspections are primarly visual and are centered on the braking system of the train, with many brake shoes being replaced during these inspections. Defects that are noted that need immediate repair will have the cars set out of the trains.
Inspections are serious business for all railroaders as failures of what is being inspected can have catastrophic results
Our engineers go through a 40-ish item checklist for the locomotive inspection. We also record when things like fuel, lube oil, and water are added. If we have a discrepancy that doesn't prevent us from rolling, we note it there for future reference by the mechanical department.
The important part is signing off the separate daily inspection form in the cab. The checklists are held for a year. When the FRA shows up, the daily inspection form is one of the first things they'll look at.
Every locomotive has a "blue card." All FRA mandated tests and inspections are recorded there by the mechanical department.
The passenger cars get a once-over at the start of each day as part of the Class 1.
If this sounds remarkably close to what Jeff wrote, it is, even for little tourist lines.
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