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Engine or Locomotive

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Posted by Bob in KC on Tuesday, March 23, 2021 10:48 AM
The oldo-head Santa Fe runners use the term "motor" for motive power.
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Posted by LAWRENCE W PERRIGO on Friday, March 12, 2021 11:33 AM

Boyd

When referring to what pulls freight and passenger cars which word is more fitting, engine or locomotive? 

 

Loggers in the western part of North America often worked with steam donkey engines, usually just called donkeys.  Locomotives were commonly called Lokies, even big Mallet engines.

 

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Posted by Trainman2941 on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:21 PM

When I was 12 years old, in 1954, Steam power was running out it's final miles on the SP here in Southern California. A good friend of mine, who was the same age as I, lived in an old house, that backed up to the SP mainline in Pomona, California. He wasn't a Railfan,  but everytime steam power went by his house, he said he saw a "locomotive" go by his house that day.   Only steam deserved the name.."locomotive"..diesels were just "engines"  I never forgot his observations.

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Posted by fire5506 on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:09 AM
On my road Locomotives were usually called engines, motors and power, except when writing about them. Power can mean one or more engines for or from a train. When writing about a particular locomotive in reports it was many time referred to as DE XXX for Diesel Engine, once in a while Locomotive. When we had train orders it was always Engine XXX. At one time we used to put engines being towed to another location "dead in tow" (they were essentially like a freight car as far as brakes went. Now they go "dead in consist" with all MU cables and hoses hooked up but with it shutdown.
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Posted by CHIPSTRAINS on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 8:34 AM

[OUT WEST, THEY ALWAYS WERE CALLED "MOTORS.  quote user="Boyd"] [/quote]

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Posted by Kmaster2007 on Thursday, March 4, 2021 9:20 AM
I call it both, sometimes is a locomotive, sometimes its an engine.
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Posted by D.Carleton on Wednesday, March 3, 2021 9:48 PM

243129
When folks ask me what I did for a living I would tell them I was in the 'engineering field'.Stick out tongue

What's funny is, to our English cousins, you would be the driver and I would be the engineer.

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, March 3, 2021 9:31 PM

When folks ask me what I did for a living I would tell them I was in the 'engineering field'.Stick out tongue

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Posted by D.Carleton on Wednesday, March 3, 2021 9:16 PM

Boyd
When referring to what pulls freight and passenger cars which word is more fitting, engine or locomotive? 

In the eyes of the law it's locomotive, i.e. 49CFR229 Railroad Locomotive Safety Standards. On the shop floor we refer to them as locomotives as an engine is but one part of the whole.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, February 4, 2021 7:29 AM

SD70Dude
 
tree68
Ulrich

On CP railroaders generally referred to SD40s as "the 3000s" in reference to their rated max horsepower output. One time I said "you mean the SD40?".. had no idea what I was talking about.

From what I've seen over the years, it was common to refer to locomotives by their number series.   Thus if a railroad numbered all their [insert model here] in the 4000 series, they'd be referred to as 4000's. 

Still the most commonly used method today.  And also requires the least thought.  

On CSX the AC traction engines were sometimes referred to as 'Lightning Bolts' or 'Bolts' because of the lightning bolt representation painted underneath the locomotive number on the cab.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, February 3, 2021 9:55 PM

SD70Dude

 

 
tree68
Ulrich

On CP railroaders generally referred to SD40s as "the 3000s" in reference to their rated max horsepower output. One time I said "you mean the SD40?".. had no idea what I was talking about.

From what I've seen over the years, it was common to refer to locomotives by their number series.   Thus if a railroad numbered all their [insert model here] in the 4000 series, they'd be referred to as 4000's.

 

 

Still the most commonly used method today.  And also requires the least thought.  

 

Until they start renumbering them.

One time we had to pick up two engines at our home terminal.  We cut off our train and went into the yard.  We weren't told which engines we were to pick up, so we called the yard.  The footboard yard master (the switch engine foreman with extra duties of yardmaster) couldn't hear us so he had the switch engine relay.  Not having the specific numbers handy, they told us to pick up a 4000 and a 8600 that were MUed together.  We found them, tied on to a 4000 and a 8600 (don't remember the actual numbers), did out consist test and were headed back out when the footboard came on the radio.  He told us we tied on to the wrong engines.  The ones they wanted us to pick up were further back on a different track.  So we put the first set back and made our way to where he told us.  Sure enough there was another set waiting for us.   

Jeff

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, February 3, 2021 7:58 PM

tree68
Ulrich

On CP railroaders generally referred to SD40s as "the 3000s" in reference to their rated max horsepower output. One time I said "you mean the SD40?".. had no idea what I was talking about.

From what I've seen over the years, it was common to refer to locomotives by their number series.   Thus if a railroad numbered all their [insert model here] in the 4000 series, they'd be referred to as 4000's.

Still the most commonly used method today.  And also requires the least thought.  

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, February 3, 2021 7:10 PM

Ulrich

On CP railroaders generally referred to SD40s as "the 3000s" in reference to their rated max horsepower output. One time I said "you mean the SD40?".. had no idea what I was talking about. 

From what I've seen over the years, it was common to refer to locomotives by their number series.   Thus if a railroad numbered all their [insert model here] in the 4000 series, they'd be referred to as 4000's.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Wednesday, February 3, 2021 4:20 PM

Faster than a speeding bullet!

More powerful than a junk?

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by bogie_engineer on Wednesday, February 3, 2021 3:19 PM

At EMD, an engine was the diesel prime mover, locomotives were called by name or model or just called units. Could be related to units of production.

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Posted by Ulrich on Wednesday, February 3, 2021 2:26 PM

On CP railroaders generally referred to SD40s as "the 3000s" in reference to their rated max horsepower output. One time I said "you mean the SD40?".. had no idea what I was talking about. 

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Tuesday, February 2, 2021 11:34 PM
 

zugmann

You really think railroaders are going to use a word as long as "locomotive"?  That's a lot of syllables. 

 

I agree.. I never heard any crew member use anything beside the words junk or power. 

 
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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, February 1, 2021 11:04 AM

The 24 is as Randy described.  

On 6 and 14 you push the independent handle farther to the left, past the release positions and hold it there (it is also spring loaded) to actuate/bail off.

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, February 1, 2021 7:50 AM

I'm pretty sure our RS3 had a 6 brake - and I've bailed it off plenty of times.

 

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Randy Stahl on Monday, February 1, 2021 7:03 AM

I think the 24 brake had a bail attached to the independant brake valve. A semi circular ring that you could depress by pushing down on the brake handle to push a small valve under the bail lever down. It was a larger variety of the bail found on fly fishing rods.

Number 6 did not have a bail lever. I suspect that there was no bailing off until the arrival of the 24 brake.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, January 31, 2021 7:20 PM

Overmod

 

 
jeffhergert
I cut that sentence from my other post.  I know I'm not the best writer, but what I wrote sure seems to me at least, to indicate a failure of the independent brake to bail off.

 

It was probably quite clear in context that you meant 'failure to bail off' and also clear that I was confusing 'actuate' with 'apply' for how the independent would have gotten applied to be bailed off.  Once Zug pointed that out, it was clear to me as written.

 

But I still don't see what's wrong with using 'bailing off' to refer to actuating the release valve for the independent brake.  I see it used, for example, in the orientation video for the P42.

 

Nor do I.  However, I used the current term (as used by air brake and train handling rules) just in case the person I was talking to had limited experience.  While I would expect that just about everyone in mechanical would recognize the term in daily use, with all the purges that have happened in all departments you don't know if the person you're dealing with only knows what the book (or computer screen) tells them.

It's like Triple Valve.  Everyone uses the term, everyone knows what you're talking about when you say it.  But it's not the correct term.  Control Valve is correct.  I believe the K brake system was the last to use a triple valve.

Jeff 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, January 30, 2021 10:24 PM

jeffhergert
I cut that sentence from my other post.  I know I'm not the best writer, but what I wrote sure seems to me at least, to indicate a failure of the independent brake to bail off.

It was probably quite clear in context that you meant 'failure to bail off' and also clear that I was confusing 'actuate' with 'apply' for how the independent would have gotten applied to be bailed off.  Once Zug pointed that out, it was clear to me as written.

But I still don't see what's wrong with using 'bailing off' to refer to actuating the release valve for the independent brake.  I see it used, for example, in the orientation video for the P42.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, January 30, 2021 9:15 PM

Overmod

 

 
zugmann
You're actuating the bail-off feature.

 

My concern was that he said he was using the words "bailing off" to describe his trouble, rather than failure in bailing off, which is what the frozen valve was producing.

 

I'm sure they figured it out reasonably PDQ without any help from me either technically or semantically.

 

 The engine's independent brake wouldn't bail off. 

I cut that sentence from my other post.  I know I'm not the best writer, but what I wrote sure seems to me at least, to indicate a failure of the independent brake to bail off.

Jeff 

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Saturday, January 30, 2021 6:32 PM

My not being a railroader, I always though the term "Bailing off" was akin to "bailing out a boat", there being some obscure common meaning to "bail" that fit both situations.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, January 30, 2021 6:23 PM

Overmod

After all, railroaders still call it a 'throttle' when on a diesel engine it does no such thing, and never has.

You should call EMD and GE and tell them to stop printing that word above the power controller handle.  If a term is good enough for the manufacturer, it's definitely good enough for us.  

Mechanically injected EMDs actually do have a manual throttle handle.  But it's back in the engine room, and is more commonly called the layshaft.  

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, January 30, 2021 6:04 PM

In train orders double headed locomotives could be referred to as Eng 123 and Eng 456 coupled, and if there was a manned rear end helper, with Eng 789 assisting.

In TTTO days referring to the engines in play could get involved ie.

NO 93 ENG 5520 ENG 4444 COUPLED WITH ENG 6610 ASSISTING TAKE SIDING AT IUKA AND MEET NO 92 ENG 1455 ENG 4416 COUPLED WITH ENG 8817 ASSISTING.  

The operators copying the above order for the identified trains would have to make 5 copies of the order for each train - One copy for each of the engines mentioned as well as the Conductor for the train's and one copy for the office records.  Presuming the orders were being picked up on the fly, the operator would have to be quick with his train order hoops to hand up the orders to each of the engine crews as well as the conductor on the caboose.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, January 30, 2021 5:55 PM

zugmann
You're actuating the bail-off feature.

My concern was that he said he was using the words "bailing off" to describe his trouble, rather than failure in bailing off, which is what the frozen valve was producing.

I'm sure they figured it out reasonably PDQ without any help from me either technically or semantically.

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, January 30, 2021 5:45 PM

You're actuating the bail-off feature. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, January 30, 2021 5:26 PM

jeffhergert
I did so because bailing off the independent is actually a slang term.  It originated with the brake valve equipment used years ago and may have been correct back then.  Now actuate the independent is the correct term, although I don't know of any railroaders in train or engine service who doesn't know what bailing off the independent means.

But isn't 'bailing off' releasing, not actuating, the independent brake?  That's the way I've always understood the term, pulling up a little 'bail' that releases the straight air.  That the bail is now a ring or similar ergonomic device on the air-brake controller shouldn't change that the term was reasonably technically accurate at the time introduced.

After all, railroaders still call it a 'throttle' when on a diesel engine it does no such thing, and never has.

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